UMPIRES - FREE KICKS

[Markwebbos]

The Hun have just published analysis of 20 years of free kick data by "Melbourne mathematician" John Marinopoulos

Category: | Herald Sun (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/revealed-the-full-report-which-blows-the-lid-on-which-clubs-are-the-darlings-of-afl-umpires/news-story/5daedf0190012642012f0448f70d5104)

"Marinopoulos, a mathematics and statistics guru from Value Advisory Partners, has analysed every free kick paid by AFL umpires in home-and-away matches since Round 1, 1997 when Port Adelaide joined the competition."

The report shows (some of this may NOT shock you):


West Coast rank number 1 when playing at home
The Bulldogs have ranked in the top 3 for 13 of the past 23 seasons in home frees and they were number 1 on the free kick register in 2016
Sydney rank 18th this year for free kicks paid
And we rank in the bottom 3 for away free kicks and overall free kicks over the last 20 years.


There's actually data you can download and graphs and all sorts. n.b. data excludes finals!

[neilfws]

Yet in those 20 years, we've made the most grand finals of those teams and won two of them.

It's almost as though on average, free kick counts had little effect on number of wins :)

[longmile]

Over it

[Sandridge]

The Hun have just published analysis of 20 years of free kick data by "Melbourne mathematician" John Marinopoulos

Category: | Herald Sun (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/revealed-the-full-report-which-blows-the-lid-on-which-clubs-are-the-darlings-of-afl-umpires/news-story/5daedf0190012642012f0448f70d5104)

"Marinopoulos, a mathematics and statistics guru from Value Advisory Partners, has analysed every free kick paid by AFL umpires in home-and-away matches since Round 1, 1997 when Port Adelaide joined the competition."

The report shows (some of this may NOT shock you):


West Coast rank number 1 when playing at home
The Bulldogs have ranked in the top 3 for 13 of the past 23 seasons in home frees and they were number 1 on the free kick register in 2016
Sydney rank 18th this year for free kicks paid
And we rank in the bottom 3 for away free kicks and overall free kicks over the last 20 years.


There's actually data you can download and graphs and all sorts. n.b. data excludes finals!

Our numbers in finals are no better! Some time ago, I researched the free kick figures for the final series when we were the team everyone wanted to win. I didn't think we got a charmed run like the 2016 Bulldogs but wanted the figures to prove it.

2005 finals free kicks: Swans 53 Opponents 70

2012 finals fee kicks: Swans 40 Opponents 52

No help for us there, even though we were the sentimental favourites in both games.

2016 finals free kicks: Swans 59 Opponents 82
2016 finals free kicks: Puppies 79 Opponents 48

[stevoswan]

2016 finals free kicks: Puppies 79 Opponents 48

....and we got eight frees in the GF, which means in the other three finals the Fairypups played in, their opposition received an average of around 13 frees in each game. We should have seen the writing on the wall....it was always going to be tough but what we got was a killer blow.

[stevoswan]

Also, our 59 frees for the 4 games we played, means we got 51 frees in the other 3 finals! An average of 17 for each game.....and then got 8 in the GF. As I said, a killer blow.

[Faunac8]

Yet in those 20 years, we've made the most grand finals of those teams and won two of them.
It's almost as though on average, free kick counts had little effect on number of wins :)
I find it hard to agree with that view and the fact that we only won two in twenty years is, in my opinion an under achievement to a degree. In a game where the umpires decision can at best be viewed as subjective, even a slight unrecognised bias has an impact. It would be interesting to see someone create a statistic that creates a points for value per free kick. For example what is the total score for divided by free kicks awarded for each team ? It may not be scientific or even valid but it may be illuminating. I refuse to pay for Ruperts Rags so don’t have ready. access to look into this

[S.S. Bleeder]

Yet in those 20 years, we've made the most grand finals of those teams and won two of them.

It's almost as though on average, free kick counts had little effect on number of wins :)

I would reword that as; we won two grand final despite an umpiring bias against us. In addition we would have won another in 2016 had there not been a very clear bias against us. We all knew that the umpires were going to look after them before the grand final, it was the most widely discussed topic on social media.

[S.S. Bleeder]

The Hun have just published analysis of 20 years of free kick data by "Melbourne mathematician" John Marinopoulos

Category: | Herald Sun (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/revealed-the-full-report-which-blows-the-lid-on-which-clubs-are-the-darlings-of-afl-umpires/news-story/5daedf0190012642012f0448f70d5104)

"Marinopoulos, a mathematics and statistics guru from Value Advisory Partners, has analysed every free kick paid by AFL umpires in home-and-away matches since Round 1, 1997 when Port Adelaide joined the competition."

The report shows (some of this may NOT shock you):


West Coast rank number 1 when playing at home
The Bulldogs have ranked in the top 3 for 13 of the past 23 seasons in home frees and they were number 1 on the free kick register in 2016
Sydney rank 18th this year for free kicks paid
And we rank in the bottom 3 for away free kicks and overall free kicks over the last 20 years.


There's actually data you can download and graphs and all sorts. n.b. data excludes finals!

Last yet again. What a surprise (not). I've got a chart which shows the frees for and against differential over the last 15 years. We are on the bottom by a country mile. We don't have the ability to attach files unfortunately so can't share it.

[KTigers]

It always seems to me that the AFL tiptoes around the umpires a lot. They are very loathe to criticise them. But do the umpires
themselves have the mental kahunas, or enough of a sense of professional pride to think to themselves as they are walking out
onto Optus Stadium (or it's predecessors in Perth), "hey, there are 50,000 people here and 49,500 are going for the Eagles, so I
really need to guard against getting sucked in by the crowd who will cry out for a Eagles free kick pretty much every time an
opposition player gets within 10M of the ball"? The stats say the answer is no.

[Beerman]

It always seems to me that the AFL tiptoes around the umpires a lot. They are very loathe to criticise them.

Rightly so. That doesn’t mean umpiring can’t be improved though. Sadly, the rightly maligned rules of the game committee doesn’t seem to consider ease of umpiring when looking at the game.



But do the umpires
themselves have the mental kahunas, or enough of a sense of professional pride to think to themselves as they are walking out
onto Optus Stadium (or it's predecessors in Perth), "hey, there are 50,000 people here and 49,500 are going for the Eagles, so I
really need to guard against getting sucked in by the crowd who will cry out for a Eagles free kick pretty much every time an
opposition player gets within 10M of the ball"? The stats say the answer is no.

They do actually. Haydn Kennedy discussed this in an interview he did on the AFL site. They are well aware of the problem, but as it is a subconscious bias, it is very hard to do anything about. Umpires are coached in ignoring crowd influence, and to not give “even-uppers”, but the problem persists and I don’t think anyone knows what to do.

It’s amusing and frustrating that fans think that only umpires have subconscious bias and that they are completely fair and impartial. :rofl. I’ve yet to hear a Swans fans explain the stats by saying “yeah, we’re a very dirty team - that’s why we’ve been so successful”.

[Agent 86]

Can't read the article (paywall), but here's a linked story in the Australian:
The Australian (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/collingwood-get-a-dream-run-from-umpires/news-story/f4bd14611db93eae53bdf569c53694e5) (delete your cookies if you're asked to pay)

Interestingly, the Dogs fare very well (esp. in 2016) & the stats don't even include finals

"They [the doggies] were also No 1 on the free kick register when they broke their 62-year premiership drought in 2016 and sit second overall for total frees since 1997.

For all home-and away-games this year, Collingwood have again enjoyed the most favourable free kick run. The bottom of the pile in 2019 are Richmond at home, St Kilda away, and the two Sydney teams overall.

The report does not include AFL finals matches."

[KTigers]

I don't believe the umpires favour teams. Why would they do that? It would make a bit of a lie of their entire profession.
And I'm not saying umpiring is an easy gig or anything either. Stuff happens so fast on the field, I can barely keep up
with it watching the replay. But lots of jobs are hard, and that's what they signed up for and get paid for. I guess I think
if the umpires are coached to be aware of the crowd influence, then maybe that coaching is not working that well.
Because it's not as if visiting teams to Perth suddenly develop a more careless, or "dirty" game style on the flight over
there for the last twenty years.

[bloodspirit]

Rightly so. That doesn’t mean umpiring can’t be improved though. Sadly, the rightly maligned rules of the game committee doesn’t seem to consider ease of umpiring when looking at the game.



They do actually. Haydn Kennedy discussed this in an interview he did on the AFL site. They are well aware of the problem, but as it is a subconscious bias, it is very hard to do anything about. Umpires are coached in ignoring crowd influence, and to not give “even-uppers”, but the problem persists and I don’t think anyone knows what to do.

It’s amusing and frustrating that fans think that only umpires have subconscious bias and that they are completely fair and impartial. :rofl. I’ve yet to hear a Swans fans explain the stats by saying “yeah, we’re a very dirty team - that’s why we’ve been so successful”.

Brilliant post!

[neilfws]

and sit second overall for total frees since 1997.

So they've added frees for and frees against since 1997 and calculated the difference?

Then the question is: why start in 1997? Summing over seasons from some arbitrary date is not any kind of rigorous analysis. Seasons vary: there have been several in a row, for example, when the Bulldogs for-against playing away was way below the league average.

I've said this in other threads, but I'll say it again. I completely understand why fans seize on the free kick differential. But first, I think they do it in large part, because it's the only information about free kicks that we have. And second, there is very little evidence that winning the free kick count leads to more wins, or even bigger margins, on average.

I'm not saying that free kicks aren't a factor. But we don't know from freely-available data when in the game they were awarded, which umpire awarded them or whether the award led to a score. Those are all things I'd like to know!

[Scottee]

The Hun have just published analysis of 20 years of free kick data by "Melbourne mathematician" John Marinopoulos

Category: | Herald Sun (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/revealed-the-full-report-which-blows-the-lid-on-which-clubs-are-the-darlings-of-afl-umpires/news-story/5daedf0190012642012f0448f70d5104)

"Marinopoulos, a mathematics and statistics guru from Value Advisory Partners, has analysed every free kick paid by AFL umpires in home-and-away matches since Round 1, 1997 when Port Adelaide joined the competition."

The report shows (some of this may NOT shock you):


West Coast rank number 1 when playing at home
The Bulldogs have ranked in the top 3 for 13 of the past 23 seasons in home frees and they were number 1 on the free kick register in 2016
Sydney rank 18th this year for free kicks paid
And we rank in the bottom 3 for away free kicks and overall free kicks over the last 20 years.


There's actually data you can download and graphs and all sorts. n.b. data excludes finals!

I would like to see a comparison of 50m penalties that result in goals and of where the free kicks are paid. I reckon we get crucified in each of these areas as well.

[ScottH]

Our numbers in finals are no better! Some time ago, I researched the free kick figures for the final series when we were the team everyone wanted to win. I didn't think we got a charmed run like the 2016 Bulldogs but wanted the figures to prove it.

2005 finals free kicks: Swans 53 Opponents 70

2012 finals fee kicks: Swans 40 Opponents 52

No help for us there, even though we were the sentimental favourites in both games.

2016 finals free kicks: Swans 59 Opponents 82
2016 finals free kicks: Puppies 79 Opponents 48

Thanks for opening old wounds!!! ;)
Actually, they have never healed :(

We are rarely on the plus side of frees.

[Nico]

I don't believe the umpires favour teams. Why would they do that? It would make a bit of a lie of their entire profession.
And I'm not saying umpiring is an easy gig or anything either. Stuff happens so fast on the field, I can barely keep up
with it watching the replay. But lots of jobs are hard, and that's what they signed up for and get paid for. I guess I think
if the umpires are coached to be aware of the crowd influence, then maybe that coaching is not working that well.
Because it's not as if visiting teams to Perth suddenly develop a more careless, or "dirty" game style on the flight over
there for the last twenty years.

I agree KT and I have a good Swans friend who has just umpired his 700th official game. He says the higher the level the harder it is to umpire due to better skills and the pace of the game. And this can vary between Amateur reserves and seniors at all levels. But John is puzzled at times when something obvious is let go when the umpire is in perfect position. I boundary umpired for 6 years when my sons played junior footy, and you better believe that you see things closer up than over the fence and in most cases the umpires got it right.

My gripe is the frees not paid for throwing or just letting the ball go when tackled.

[barry]

Until umpiring is a full time job, we will never get the professionalism we need.

I dont buy the "subconcious bias" argument. No doubt it exists, but if you are aware of it, you can compensate.

The great weight of evidence of home ground influence on free kicks (irrespective of team) is damning in its inherent unfairness.
Once they address that, they can then work out why some teams are favoured (fairypups) and others are harmed (Sydney teams)

[mcs]

My gripe is the frees not paid for throwing or just letting the ball go when tackled.

It is the frees not paid that frustrate me. For the good part of a decade (Not so much the last year or so as our tackling is half as effective as it once was) we got very little reward for being fantastic pressure/tackling teams. The old Hawthorn 'dropsies from above' or the Fairypuppies 'throw at all costs' (Including the famous tunnel ball from the GF) great examples.

[Go Swannies]

In the modern game every aspect is analysed for advantage. I'm sure that coaches of every other team think that they can push the boundaries a bit further against the Swans without being penalised. That must be worth a few percent.

[Mountain Man]

Once again I call for a comparison of Tribunal penalties by team.

I reckon our $ fines and weeks suspended, (ie penalties for dirty/dangerous play) would be at the low end of the competition.

[Bloods05]

Until umpiring is a full time job, we will never get the professionalism we need.

I dont buy the "subconcious bias" argument. No doubt it exists, but if you are aware of it, you can compensate.

The great weight of evidence of home ground influence on free kicks (irrespective of team) is damning in its inherent unfairness.
Once they address that, they can then work out why some teams are favoured (fairypups) and others are harmed (Sydney teams)

You can't be aware of subconscious bias.

[Beerman]

Until umpiring is a full time job, we will never get the professionalism we need.

I dont buy the "subconcious bias" argument. No doubt it exists, but if you are aware of it, you can compensate.

The great weight of evidence of home ground influence on free kicks (irrespective of team) is damning in its inherent unfairness.
Once they address that, they can then work out why some teams are favoured (fairypups) and others are harmed (Sydney teams)

Agree about the umpires. It absolutely mystifies me how at least the field umpires are not full-time professionals in this day and age.

The problem with the subconscious bias is that no-one can work out *how* to compensate for it. It’s extremely powerful and being aware of it doesn’t help much.

It’s not just sport. We’re all aware of the placebo effect, but amazingly it works **even if you tell the patient you are giving them a placebo**. That is, if you give a sick person a tablet and say “Here you go. This is a sugar tablet. It won’t help you in any way”, they still feel better than if you give them nothing!

With Australian Rules the problem is that the rules rely on interpretation so much it gives a lot of room for that bias to take effect. They need to be made less ambiguous and easier to adjudicate. If you ask someone to pick a number between 1 and 100, there is a clear bias to odd numbers, but no-one is going to say 24 + 12 = 37 because of that bias.

[Beerman]

l. If you ask someone to pick a number between 1 and 100, there is a clear bias to odd numbers, but no-one is going to say 24 + 12 = 37 because of that bias.

Ok, I might say it, but that’s just because I love Adam Goodes [emoji38]

[barry]

They are aware of subconscious bias because they have all the stats to show them.
Umpires can change their interpretations in -match. They do this in the last 10 mins of close games, known as 'putting away the whistle'.

So they know, they can change, it's just a question of 'do they want to'?

[Blue Sun]

The bias might stem from something as simple as our colours. Red is often associated with danger or the 'bad guys'. Perhaps they see red and are therefore more likely to penalise us?

[Beerman]

They are aware of subconscious bias because they have all the stats to show them.
Umpires can change their interpretations in -match. They do this in the last 10 mins of close games, known as 'putting away the whistle'.

So they know, they can change, it's just a question of 'do they want to'?

But they don't *consciously* change their interpretations. If you asked them, they would say "we are aware that fewer free kicks are paid in the last 10 minutes. We train umpires to ignore the stage of the game and the margin, and be consistent and pay what's there".

The problem is it doesn't work. So what's the answer? I'm not sure, but I'm happy to hear your thoughts (remember "They're aware of it and should just stop it" is a proven failure).

I have read some crazy suggestions regarding blindfolded umpires, or umpires with video cameras relaying a feed to an off-site venue where someone makes decisions, but I'm yet to hear something that is practical.

There is tons of interesting research around subconscious bias that they might be able to tap into. Perhaps there are some tricky psychological "hacks" they can use to overcome it, but what they are is not yet clear. It's a very tough problem and in an environment as difficult to control as a football game it becomes even harder.

[S.S. Bleeder]

The bias might stem from something as simple as our colours. Red is often associated with danger or the 'bad guys'. Perhaps they see red and are therefore more likely to penalise us?

I've given that some thought over the years/decades. We have always been at the bottom of the table for the fors vs againsts. The main contributing factor would be the crowd noise but other than that the only other thing that I can think of is the attitude of our players or the colours of our uniforms. Maybe we should start wearing the majority white uniform?

[Legs Akimbo]

The data is telling. I'll love to get my hands on it and do some more analysis on it if anyone has the file. Just pm me if you have and can share. I'd like to look at colour, home ground influence and how the results vary over time. Also the relationship with other stats like inside 50s vs defense 50s etc. I can throw all the variables into a Random Forest model to predict frees for vs against differential and use the other variables as independent predictors. The model would show the proportion of variance explained for each input.

Re the bias, my actual theory is that it's an effect similar to watching your team play. When I watch the swans I literally watch the swans not the other team. I'm one eyed. I think we get 'watched' or maybe it is the other way around.

[Hotpotato]

The DATA is certainly telling.
To bring more awareness of it (as well as the scoreboard) maybe we (the cheer squad and others around the ground) could post the count on signs that are held up .
Who cares if it will be labelled sour grapes.
The Swans are simply not that percentage differential undisciplined to the mobs at the top of the free kick table.

[Beerman]

The DATA is certainly telling.
To bring more awareness of it (as well as the scoreboard) maybe we (the cheer squad and others around the ground) could post the count on signs that are held up .
Who cares if it will be labelled sour grapes.
The Swans are simply not that percentage differential undisciplined to the mobs at the top of the free kick table.

The thing is, that even if we are undisciplined, it doesn't explain why we get so few free kicks awarded to us. Other teams can be undisciplined too.

Also, while game style and personnel (ie. undisciplined players) influences the free kick count, for the discrepancy to be so consistent over so many years speaks to a deeper problem. We've changed the team and play style plenty of times in the last 10 years, but the bias just doesn't change.

I'd love to know what the AFL thinks of the data. They have acknowledged that crowd noise bias is a thing, but do they even acknowledge that there is a bigger problem for certain teams?

[lwjoyner]

it continued last night but we won, no thanks to umps,but thanks to a poor demons

[Hotpotato]

I’m (and others) are just swapping the word undisciplined for BIAS.

[barry]

But they don't *consciously* change their interpretations.

I believe they do.



The problem is it doesn't work. So what's the answer? I'm not sure, but I'm happy to hear your thoughts (remember "They're aware of it and should just stop it" is a proven failure).
.

I don't think the AFL or umpires have seriously attempted to stop it, and until umps are full time professionals and it becomes a KPI, they won't.

- - - Updated - - -


it continued last night but we won, no thanks to umps,but thanks to a poor demons
Yes. A game we totally dominated yet lost the free kick count by 8. Wow.

Umps will think, "great job"

[rb4x]

Melbourne even won the fantasy points 1557 to Sydney 1546!!!

[Beerman]

I believe they do.


You're welcome to your opinion. I believe strongly in Hanlon's razor - "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."



I don't think the AFL or umpires have seriously attempted to stop it

100% agree with this. There is clearly a bias, and the AFL must be aware of it. Their efforts to address it are completely half-hearted and inconsequential. There just doesn't seem to be any desire from them at all to fix the problem. That's what boils my blood.

[Nico]

Melbourne v Swans 22/17, Carlton v Saints 14/22, Lions v Geelong 21/27, Adelaide v Collingwood 22/9, North v Port 22/17, Freo v Essendon 23/9.

Some big discrepancies in favour of the losing teams. I have noticed over the years this strange situation. When we became the clearance kings I noticed that often we get a lot less frees, and my thinking was that first to the ball gets sweated on and pinged for HTB and hard tackling by us resulted in more head high frees or frees for in the back against.

We were well down on numbers this week until the last quarter, but the Adelaide and Freo numbers are quite stark given the hidings they got.

To me it can't be just bad calls. There are so many variables such as home ground advantage, sides adept at quick throws out of the pack, dominant rucks, jumper colours, stagers, players deliberately falling forward, constant rule changes, poor player technique, speed of the game, the Duckwoods and simply letting go of the footy when tackled, that to me the answer is a pineapple, until someone has the time to analyse every free kick given, and split them into sectors to give some plausible explanation.

[Mel_C]

Melbourne v Swans 22/17, Carlton v Saints 14/22, Lions v Geelong 21/27, Adelaide v Collingwood 22/9, North v Port 22/17, Freo v Essendon 23/9.

Some big discrepancies in favour of the losing teams.

Does out on the full get counted in the free kicks? Brisbane kicked about 9 or 10 out on the full so that would explain why Geelong had so many more frees.

[Nico]

[QUOTE=Mel_C;783391]Does out on the full get counted in the free kicks? Brisbane kicked about 9 or 10 out on the full so that would explain why Geelong had so many more frees.[/QUO

Another variable I didn't think of. That could explain it in part if a team is prone to play down the line. 9 seems a lot of out on the full in a game. Not a regular thing. But there are 2 sides playing so an opposition must also have some out on full. Yet again no one has come up with an explanation of the massive discrepancies. Why wouldn't the AFL give a plausible explanation. Anyone out there prepared to have a close look next week.

[stevoswan]

Today's evidence.....Fairypups 17 frees Giants 5. The Giants had 5 frees near the start of the third so have not received another free for the rest of the game as the Dogs go crazy scoring at will. Now admittedly the Giants were insipid in the second half....about as insipid as the umpires were biased. It was 2016 all over again. Any team looking to play the 'pups in the first week of the finals should be very worried indeed.....and it could be the Giants again.

[Danzar]

Does out on the full get counted in the free kicks? Brisbane kicked about 9 or 10 out on the full so that would explain why Geelong had so many more frees.

No it doesn't get counted as a free kick. It's classified as a turnover, no different to kicking to an opposition player.

[Danzar]

Today's evidence.....Fairypups 17 frees Giants 5. The Giants had 5 frees near the start of the third so have not received another free for the rest of the game as the Dogs go crazy scoring at will. Now admittedly the Giants were insipid in the second half....about as insipid as the umpires were biased. It was 2016 all over again. Any team looking to play the 'pups in the first week of the finals should be very worried indeed.....and it could be the Giants again.

Is there any way to check the frees quarter by quarter? And by field umpire?

[Markwebbos]

Paul Roos calls for full-time umpires with Sydney and GWS sick of being on the wrong end of free-kick tally

Category: | Herald Sun (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/paul-roos-calls-for-fulltime-action-with-sydney-and-gws-sick-of-being-on-the-wrong-end-of-freekick-tally/news-story/a0882c3c122d2d0db63a3baa0d6e9146)

Former Sydney Swans coach Paul Roos and the club’s current administration have weighed in on evidence that Sydney clubs are disadvantaged by umpires when it comes to free kicks... The former premiership-winning coach called on the AFL to cut the excuses and make umpires full-time, while the current Sydney Swans administration also spoke out strongly to condemn the serious discrepancies laid bare in how the game is officiated across the league.

The Swans and GWS not only sit at the bottom of the pile for free kicks awarded this year, but over the past two decades they languish in the bottom three for free kick percentage...

Swans football boss Charlie Gardiner said home ground advantage was a @“reality”. “You can’t shy away from the numbers where this year we’ve got the worst free kick differential in the competition,” Gardiner told The Saturday Telegraph. “We’re negative 53 against our opposition for the year. If you look at Collingwood, they’re positive 90 for the year. It’s not only the (free kicks) that are paid, it’s also the ones that are missed."

[Blood Fever]

Paul Roos calls for full-time umpires with Sydney and GWS sick of being on the wrong end of free-kick tally

Category: | Herald Sun (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/paul-roos-calls-for-fulltime-action-with-sydney-and-gws-sick-of-being-on-the-wrong-end-of-freekick-tally/news-story/a0882c3c122d2d0db63a3baa0d6e9146)

Former Sydney Swans coach Paul Roos and the club’s current administration have weighed in on evidence that Sydney clubs are disadvantaged by umpires when it comes to free kicks... The former premiership-winning coach called on the AFL to cut the excuses and make umpires full-time, while the current Sydney Swans administration also spoke out strongly to condemn the serious discrepancies laid bare in how the game is officiated across the league.

The Swans and GWS not only sit at the bottom of the pile for free kicks awarded this year, but over the past two decades they languish in the bottom three for free kick percentage...

Swans football boss Charlie Gardiner said home ground advantage was a @“reality”. “You can’t shy away from the numbers where this year we’ve got the worst free kick differential in the competition,” Gardiner told The Saturday Telegraph. “We’re negative 53 against our opposition for the year. If you look at Collingwood, they’re positive 90 for the year. It’s not only the (free kicks) that are paid, it’s also the ones that are missed."

Nothing else has worked so this worth a try. Watch the backlash!

[barry]

Leon Cameron should have made the giants refuse to come out after 3/4 time, until the umpires were changed.

It will take that sort of action.

[Sandridge]

Nothing else has worked so this worth a try. Watch the backlash!

Yes, there'll be backlash - especially from the teams that do well with the umpires. But thanks Roosy - at least the issue is out there!!

Must give credit where credit is due though. Well done Bulldogs! What a well drilled and disciplined team. For the whole team to commit only 5 rule infringements in a whole game of football today - marvellous! Almost as good as only breaking rules 8 times in a Grand Final!

[dejavoodoo44]

Yes, there'll be backlash - especially from the teams that do well with the umpires. But thanks Roosy - at least the issue is out there!!

Must give credit where credit is due though. Well done Bulldogs! What a well drilled and disciplined team. For the whole team to commit only 5 rule infringements in a whole game of football today - marvellous! Almost as good as only breaking rules 8 times in a Grand Final!

Yes, and even though they hardly broke the rules, they did manage to break Dan Hannebery for about two seasons.

[Mark26]

Paul Roos calls for full-time umpires with Sydney and GWS sick of being on the wrong end of free-kick tally

Category: | Herald Sun (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/paul-roos-calls-for-fulltime-action-with-sydney-and-gws-sick-of-being-on-the-wrong-end-of-freekick-tally/news-story/a0882c3c122d2d0db63a3baa0d6e9146)

Former Sydney Swans coach Paul Roos and the club’s current administration have weighed in on evidence that Sydney clubs are disadvantaged by umpires when it comes to free kicks... The former premiership-winning coach called on the AFL to cut the excuses and make umpires full-time, while the current Sydney Swans administration also spoke out strongly to condemn the serious discrepancies laid bare in how the game is officiated across the league.

The Swans and GWS not only sit at the bottom of the pile for free kicks awarded this year, but over the past two decades they languish in the bottom three for free kick percentage...

Swans football boss Charlie Gardiner said home ground advantage was a @“reality”. “You can’t shy away from the numbers where this year we’ve got the worst free kick differential in the competition,” Gardiner told The Saturday Telegraph. “We’re negative 53 against our opposition for the year. If you look at Collingwood, they’re positive 90 for the year. It’s not only the (free kicks) that are paid, it’s also the ones that are missed."

Hallelujah! Who wrote the article for the Herald Sun?

[Markwebbos]

Ben Horne

[Doctor]

Leon Cameron should have made the giants refuse to come out after 3/4 time, until the umpires were changed.

It will take that sort of action.

Drastic call but it may take something like that. The Giants were royally dudded today by Stevic and co.

[Go Swannies]

"Good old Victoria forever, we know how to play the game . . " and clearly the foreigners from outside the state don't. The lopsided free kick count today was remarkable. Eagles slightly behind on frees and on the scoreboard. But GWS had a score differential almost matching the free imbalance. Freo did well - in Perth (23-9) - and Adelaide did well in, surprise, Adelaide (22-9). I'm glad someone has gone public because commentators clearly barracking for their local team certainly won't.

2016 killed my love of the game. I now go to games to appreciate the young Swans but not with any expectation that the competition is not rigged. It might be "unconscious" but the statistics are damning and need to be consciously fixed - if the AFL has any aspiration for a level playing field, rather than one that simply tilts heavily towards the MCG.

[KTigers]

"Good old Victoria forever, we know how to play the game . . " and clearly the foreigners from outside the state don't.

Except most of our & GWS' players are not from Sydney. I guess something happened to them on the flight up from Melbourne, and their
understanding of the game went out the window....

The fact that us and GWS are consistently receiving the least free kicks means that collectively the other 16 teams are playing in
a fairer and less careless style when they play against us & GWS, as opposed to when they play amongst themselves.
The actual likelihood of that is of course, zero.

[longmile]

2016 killed my love of the game. I now go to games to appreciate the young Swans but not with any expectation that the competition is not rigged. It might be "unconscious" but the statistics are damning and need to be consciously fixed - if the AFL has any aspiration for a level playing field, rather than one that simply tilts heavily towards the MCG.

That and the 2014 Goodes incident really flattened me. Been harder to support the AFL and be interested in other matches and going ons. Will always be a Swans fan tho.

[Industrial Fan]

I would discount the free count for gws in their first few seasons because they were a genuinely dirty team looking for relevance.

Devon Smith, Bugg & Greene in the same team..

[Boddo]

2016 killed my love of the game. I now go to games to appreciate the young Swans but not with any expectation that the competition is not rigged. It might be "unconscious" but the statistics are damning and need to be consciously fixed - if the AFL has any aspiration for a level playing field, rather than one that simply tilts heavily towards the MCG.

Everything is tilted to the big Melbourne clubs. From an inadequate draw that favours MCG home ground clubs to the GF at the MCG to northern clubs having to favour country Victorian draftees over metro draftees to the Melbourne NGA’s having better access to metro Melbourne and country Victoria indigenous players over the equivalent in WA & SA to third party deals to the local Melbourne media masquerading as national coverage and the list could go on and on.

It’s not a sporting league it’s a sports entertainment business to allow members of the Melbourne boys club to continue to profit from the entertainment industry. As a sport it’s a joke full stop.

[Blue Sun]

Paul Roos calls for full-time umpires with Sydney and GWS sick of being on the wrong end of free-kick tally

Category: | Herald Sun (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/paul-roos-calls-for-fulltime-action-with-sydney-and-gws-sick-of-being-on-the-wrong-end-of-freekick-tally/news-story/a0882c3c122d2d0db63a3baa0d6e9146)

Former Sydney Swans coach Paul Roos and the club’s current administration have weighed in on evidence that Sydney clubs are disadvantaged by umpires when it comes to free kicks... The former premiership-winning coach called on the AFL to cut the excuses and make umpires full-time, while the current Sydney Swans administration also spoke out strongly to condemn the serious discrepancies laid bare in how the game is officiated across the league.

The Swans and GWS not only sit at the bottom of the pile for free kicks awarded this year, but over the past two decades they languish in the bottom three for free kick percentage...

Swans football boss Charlie Gardiner said home ground advantage was a @“reality”. “You can’t shy away from the numbers where this year we’ve got the worst free kick differential in the competition,” Gardiner told The Saturday Telegraph. “We’re negative 53 against our opposition for the year. If you look at Collingwood, they’re positive 90 for the year. It’s not only the (free kicks) that are paid, it’s also the ones that are missed."

Numbers don't lie. We now have 20 years of statistics telling us what we have long suspected. Its about time the AFL and media had it thrown in their faces. Enough is enough.

[AnnieH]

We can only deal with what we can control.
We can't control the umpires or their dubious decisions.

[KTigers]

The Sydney teams are going particularly badly in the free kick counts against..... drum roll..... the Western Bulldogs.
In the last 16 games between a Sydney team and the Dogs, the Dogs have won the free kick count 13 times, there was
one tie, and twice the Swans received more frees than the Dogs. In the last eight games between GWS and the Dogs,
the Dogs have received more free kicks in every game, including yesterdays 17-5 extravaganza. Quite a feat really,
only infringing five times in an entire game. Enough to win you a MCG Premiership some years.

[mcs]

The Sydney teams are going particularly badly in the free kick counts against..... drum roll..... the Western Bulldogs.
In the last 16 games between a Sydney team and the Dogs, the Dogs have won the free kick count 13 times, there was
one tie, and twice the Swans received more frees than the Dogs. In the last eight games between GWS and the Dogs,
the Dogs have received more free kicks in every game, including yesterdays 17-5 extravaganza. Quite a feat really,
only infringing five times in an entire game. Enough to win you a MCG Premiership some years.

Don't make my veins pop on a Monday afternoon KT - still get so angry about that day, and always will until we either get our revenge when it matters, or lift the cup again on Grand Final day. Its one thing to get beaten well and truly like 2014, but 2016 grates because it was such a close contest for such a large part of the game, despite us playing with a hand tied behind our back as the search for the fairypuppies premiership was in full swing. I still maintain that with a more even umpiring performance that reflected the actual closeness of the contest, it would of went right down to the wire, and we could have easily have been holding the cup aloft.

Ah well, I will go back to dreaming of our young cygnets tearing the competition and new one in coming years and lifting that cup again. I have a feeling that we are well on the right track - and even dodgy umpiring might not be enough to stop them.

[Nico]

Don't make my veins pop on a Monday afternoon KT - still get so angry about that day, and always will until we either get our revenge when it matters, or lift the cup again on Grand Final day. Its one thing to get beaten well and truly like 2014, but 2016 grates because it was such a close contest for such a large part of the game, despite us playing with a hand tied behind our back as the search for the fairypuppies premiership was in full swing. I still maintain that with a more even umpiring performance that reflected the actual closeness of the contest, it would of went right down to the wire, and we could have easily have been holding the cup aloft.

Ah well, I will go back to dreaming of our young cygnets tearing the competition and new one in coming years and lifting that cup again. I have a feeling that we are well on the right track - and even dodgy umpiring might not be enough to stop them.

And who can forget the free against Jack for kicking in danger when he jumped over the player on the ground, laughable.

[KTigers]

Clearly, it's totally fanciful that a team only infringes the rules five times in an entire game like yesterday. Or eight times in a grand
final, a game where the intensity and attack on the ball goes through the roof. Over time this stuff (and it's been going on for two
decades now) just adds insult to injury once you add in the myriad of institutional inequalities that exist in the league. But to my
mind even all of these things combined pale when compared to the disgraceful treatment of Adam Goodes over the last three years
of his footy career, and the out-and-out gutlessness of the AFL to stand up for the bloke at the time. The AFL should have just died of
shame over their non response to that issue.

[crackedactor]

And who can forget the free against Jack for kicking in danger when he jumped over the player on the ground, laughable.

I recall that incident and I remember how the umpire blew the whistle and hesitated to say anthing. Arghhh it a a a kicking in danger! Yes that proves corruption exists in the umpiring ranks. Thanks Roosy for bringing up this constant discrepancy and as Charlie Gardner said " it's not the free kicks they get, it the free kicks we don't get". It's funny how they have Victoria umpires, SA umpires, WA umpires, female umpires but no umpires from the most populated state in Australia called NSW.


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[Blue Sun]

And who can forget the free against Jack for kicking in danger when he jumped over the player on the ground, laughable.

That was actually a free kick and 50m penalty if I remember correctly. Astonishing stuff.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

We can only deal with what we can control.
We can't control the umpires or their dubious decisions.

Yeah I know, it's what we were all taught as we grew up - but this isn't just the slightly unbalanced perceptions of impassioned fans - it's 20 years of quantified bias.
It's difficult not to get bent out of shape about.

[Meg]

That was actually a free kick and 50m penalty if I remember correctly. Astonishing stuff.

And a goal ...

[AnnieH]

Yeah I know, it's what we were all taught as we grew up - but this isn't just the slightly unbalanced perceptions of impassioned fans - it's 20 years of quantified bias.
It's difficult not to get bent out of shape about.

There's absolutely n.o.t.h.i.n.g. we, or the club for that matter, can do about it.
They are a law unto themselves.
Maybe if they make them "professional", i.e. let them make a lucrative living from umpiring (which, of course means that they can get dropped and miss a match payment if their umpiring is not up to "par").
It would entice kids who perhaps aren't "elite" enough to play, but have an intense passion for the game to still "play".

[Hotpotato]

Placards : FREES FOR THEM xx
FREES FOR US x

So they can’t miss it during the games