Match Thread: Swans v Demons.

[dejavoodoo44]

On the radar, it looks like there'll be a few showers during the game, but shouldn't be too bad.

Melbourne are short favourites at $1.30. However, we've won 9 out of the last 10 against them and we do have Franklin and Rampe back.

[Mel_C]

Does anyone know who we are wearing black armbands for?

[dejavoodoo44]

No late changes. Blakey is our medical sub. Chandler for the Demons.

[dejavoodoo44]

McInerney doesn't miss often. Hope Papley's okay.

[Markwebbos]

How long left?

[stevoswan]

Nice start boys.....no inside 50's for Dees yet.....2 goals to us.

Will good early.

[troyjones2525]

Damn Fox. Need to be better!

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[stevoswan]

COR caught a bit short there. Needs to put more body on the contest.

Fox bad kick too.

[Daisi]

I see the HTB calls are a bit arbitrary tonight...Good signs for us so far- not expecting to win...but I like to see us competitive

[Markwebbos]

Incorrect disposal not a thing anymore?

[Mel_C]

Crap umpiring again. That was a mark to McCartin and then it should have been holding the ball. 😤

[Bill Posters]

Unpaid mark + missed htb + another missed htb = goal to Melbourne.

[Daisi]

Yes we will be working against the umpires tonight, so we have to be pretty sharp. Personally, I'm already annoyed and irritated with the umps and commentators.

[Markwebbos]

How good is Hickey?

[Bill Posters]

Totally. But I'm hearing a lot of cheering for the swans from the MCG crowd. Go you Melbourne Swans fans!

[dejavoodoo44]

How good is Hickey?
Well, he stopped me paying out on Lloyd, for kicking it to Gawn.

[Daisi]

How good is Hickey?

And he does it on one leg....Bit worried about Buddy's jaw, that was a nasty hit.

[Mel_C]

Good start and end to the quarter but felt we should have another goal at least. Melbourne got on top in the middle and we started to make errors.

What a goal by Hickey! Lucky he kicked it otherwise I think he would have copped a big spray by Buddy.

[Foreign Legion]

To all the previous posters about HTB - I agree 100% - I actually don't know what the umps are going to call now.

I think the Demons get away with a bit more. Plus the 15m kicks are baffling me.

[dejavoodoo44]

Nice to be in front at quarter time, after Melbourne started to gain some momentum. Mills, Kennedy and Hickey were good in the clearances. Like the ball in Florent's hands, these days. Wish they'd pay a few more holding the balls.

[Ralph Dawg]

Really competitive 1Q. Melbourne are a good side, can see why they are at the top of the table. But to our credit, we're taking it to them. Hayward had a good 1Q, especially the first part of the stanza. Our midfield is competing hard, liking the work of JPK and Oli with JMac running hard down his wing. And Hickey! Words can't convey how incredibly well he's playing. Sure, love to have Aliir but given the choice between the two, Hickey for sure. What a difference he's made.

[Mel_C]

We have got to stick closer to Ben Brown. He is killing us in the air.

Our forwards need to play in front.

[Markwebbos]

Front on contact not a thing now?

[Daisi]

We're looking a bit rattled now...I've turned off the commentary, but that last passage of play looked weird- 50 for slamming him over the line? ill disciplined play....

[Foreign Legion]

Front on contact not a thing now?

No not at the MCG - its just play on.

[Legs Akimbo]

Gulden needs a stint in the magoos.

[stevoswan]

Give Dawson the kick outs.

[Swannette]

We seem unable to stick a tackle


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[bloodspirit]

Is it usual for defenders standing a mark when an opponent is kicking for goal to remove their mouth guards?

[Foreign Legion]

Darcy's barracking for Melbourne reaching feverish levels. again

[Foreign Legion]

Why is it play on every bloody time we take a mark?

[Legs Akimbo]

Our forward line is so static.

[Bill Posters]

That was a dive.

[Markwebbos]

Brayshaw blatant HTB

[Foreign Legion]

Brayshaw goes 960 degrees in the tackle with prior opportunity - play on.

[stevoswan]

Seriously.....just delay the litany of Swans frees until you can pay a Melbourne free. Disgusting!

[Legs Akimbo]

Two sets of rules as usual

[The Runner]

Jake Lloyd needs to be banned from kick ins

[Blue Sun]

Gotta love the tackle on Sinkers when he didn’t even have the ball. Good stuff, umpires.

[Legs Akimbo]

Our skills have been atrocious. So many fumbles.

[bloodspirit]

Not too bad. Same number of scoring shots.

[Bexl]

Umpiring sucks big time just fairness and consistency would be a massively good change

[i'm-uninformed2]

The umpiring is utter bullsheeeeeeet

[Bill Posters]

Still in it. Just don't know why the umpires have decided to put the whistle away for htb this year. It's almost like it's not a rule. Might have to stop shouting BALL at the TV.

[Foreign Legion]

Parker got thrown to the ground in the 1/4 when he barely touched the ball.

I think Oliver for Melbourne throws it roughly 25% of the time he gets it.

[stevoswan]

Despite the no goals that quarter, we absorbed a lot of pressure and are still in touch. Not too unhappy, despite the deplorable umpiring.

[The Runner]

- Cunningham doing very well on Kosi
- Rampe keeping us in it
- Lloyd getting plenty and zero impact
- Kennedy taking that shot from the 50 was silly. Needed to play it similar to how Papley did
- Haywards missed shot on goal caused a 12pt turn around, and that's the difference
- McLean the only forward competing well - we can't keep playing Sinclair regardless of the ruck needs, he's killing us
- young mids all playing ok. Rowbottom, Warner working up and back well. Good to see Rowbottom helping the back line out
- Papley trying but without impact
- Senior mids need to start winning the footy and be cleaner

[NeonBible]

Am at the ground - this is a rort. Two complete different standards of umpiring between the two

[Bexl]

Am at the ground - this is a rort. Two complete different standards of umpiring between the two

Same. Huge +1 in fact my son is here and he thinks the same so it's +2

[Foreign Legion]

I would throw Sinclair into the ruck for the first 15 minutes. Keep Hickey a bit fresh.

[stevoswan]

- McLean the only forward competing well - we can't keep playing Sinclair regardless of the ruck needs, he's killing us


He's been picked to kerb Lever's influence and run out of defence.....Lever 3 possessions to half time. Seems to be working.

[dejavoodoo44]

Possibly lucky not to be further behind, as Melbourne has been doing a good job of slowing our movement. On the other hand, if they were paying holding the ball and front on contact, we could have been in front. Need to be a bit bolder with our ball use and need more overlap run.

[NeonBible]

- Cunningham doing very well on Kosi
- Rampe keeping us in it
- Lloyd getting plenty and zero impact
- Kennedy taking that shot from the 50 was silly. Needed to play it similar to how Papley did
- Haywards missed shot on goal caused a 12pt turn around, and that's the difference
- McLean the only forward competing well - we can't keep playing Sinclair regardless of the ruck needs, he's killing us
- young mids all playing ok. Rowbottom, Warner working up and back well. Good to see Rowbottom helping the back line out
- Papley trying but without impact
- Senior mids need to start winning the footy and be cleaner

On the contrary the Runner, i am looking for the younger mids to lift in the second half. Too often i have seen Rowbottom, Warner and Florent on the fringes, leaving it to the older bulls and not attacking the contest with their usual zest. Could be intimidation factor - Gawn, Oliver, Petracca, Viney is imposing but our kids need to be a bit braver and take them head on. They are more than capable!!

Cheer cheer !!

[waswan]

Mids getting smashed, forwards stagnant.

A few guys very fumbly.

Be better rucking Fox instead of playing Sinks, we are a midfield runner down

[crackedactor 01]

Just seems to me that the Swans are fumbling the ball a lot more than Melbourne. Not doing too much wrong against a good team. Just need to be more sure handed.

[SwanSand]

It’s composure that is lacking when tackling, going for spoils or marks etc.
I reckon we are doing an amazing job. We just need to hang in there. Our turn will come .... as long as we are not buggered till it comes, we should be close to their score.

[Foreign Legion]

Parks needs to lift

[Ludwig]

We've eased up on the pressure on the man with the ball. We're giving them too much space to operate through the midfield. We are closing down the space, then backing off a bit instead of continuing to go at the man.

Our first quarter was probably the best footy we've played since round 3. We need to recapture that, if we can, in the thee 2nd half.

[Mel_C]

We have to try and move the ball quicker into our forward line. The longer we wait it allows the demons to flood and then our forwards can't lead and we just bomb it in.

[Foreign Legion]

I'm gonna make a big call - I reckon the Swans may move the ball to Haywaard

Lol I typed that as he kicked it

[Markwebbos]

Why was that not HTB against Brown?

[stevoswan]

Well done Will after some good team forward pressure to keep the ball in the 50.

[The Runner]

Dawson kick out of the back half needed to be smarter (i.e. McInerney 20m shorter), tried to over create

[Daisi]

What was that free kick for? It looked like he was tying his laces...

[The Runner]

Dreadful free against Hayward, he barely touched him. Umpiring really hurting us tonight

[Blue Sun]

Why was that not HTB against Brown?

Has Ben Brown ever given away a free kick?

[stevoswan]

Will has brain fades.....

[Daisi]

Well I guess it's going to be like the year the Bulldogs won. I think I know who the AFL want to win the comp....surprise- it's not us....

[Legs Akimbo]

Dawson held by the arm...no free

[Daisi]

HIckey injured? We are a completely different team when he's off the field.

[stevoswan]

Back to the two's for Will I'm afraid.....unless he does something very special from here on.

[Ralph Dawg]

For every good thing Hayward does, he does 2 stupid ones

[Swannette]

oh my but they throw the ball a lot


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[waswan]

Mids pathetic, they are waltzing out of the stoppages

[Legs Akimbo]

To be honest, Melbourne are simply better than us.

[Ralph Dawg]

To be honest, Melbourne are simply better than us.
This is true. Tom McDonald has had a blinder

[Daisi]

How many goals from free kicks? What a boring game? Why play when the umps are just giving them the game? Sigh...just ruins the game ..How was that not a mark? what a joke

[stevoswan]

McLean mark not paid.....if it's not hard enough!

[Mel_C]

Melbourne have been coached really well. Every time we get the ball they set up really quickly and we have no options to move it forward.

[Markwebbos]

That was clearly a mark to McLean

[Legs Akimbo]

How McLean was not paid is beyond me

[dejavoodoo44]

Needed that Lloyd goal, especially after they didn't pay the McLean mark.

[Blue Sun]

Holding the ball?????? No of course not. @@@@ing umpires.

[Markwebbos]

Melbourne have been coached really well. Every time we get the ball they set up really quickly and we have no options to move it forward.

+1 our ball movement a problem

[The Runner]

Never ever ever play Sinclair again

[Legs Akimbo]

How is that not paid holsijg the ball????

[Ralph Dawg]

Sinclair can join Hayward in 2s

[stevoswan]

Sinclair.....a sitter! Then a missed HTB! FFS!

[waswan]

sinks, hands to 10 balls, marks 1

[Mel_C]

Sinclair can get off the ground...how can you drop that????

[stevoswan]

Paps!!! After Warner cleaned up Cal's mess!

[Markwebbos]

Swans still alive. The Chad enormous

[Legs Akimbo]

Great goal papley. Sinclair is on borrowed time.

[Ralph Dawg]

I really don't know how we manage to stay in these games, we just look comprehensively outplayed everywhere except the scoreboard

[stevoswan]

McLean held in the marking contest.....bloody hell.

[Daisi]

Is it really legal to just knock the ball from somebody's hand after they've marked it? Seriously asking here...

[Blue Sun]

Lol, Max Gawn gets away with everything. Spoiled by going the man. Weak.

[stevoswan]

Out played largely and umpired out of it and we're still just 10 pts down at 3/4 time. Let's snatch this one Swannies!

[Ralph Dawg]

Umpires as per usual doing us no favours. I wonder if they are disappointed when we win? A feeling they haven't done their jobs properly?

[stevoswan]

Umpires as per usual doing us no favours. I wonder if they are disappointed when we win? A feeling they haven't done their jobs properly?

+1

[Scottee]

Played a lot of dumb footy tonight. Stupid free kicks given away by Gulden and Wicks, bad decision making and aw a recession, especially from our older players. Amazing we are still in this.

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[Daisi]

Umpires as per usual doing us no favours. I wonder if they are disappointed when we win? A feeling they haven't done their jobs properly?

+2

They won't allow us to win.

[Foreign Legion]

Parker back in it - we are a chance.

The stats are actually pretty good. Like to see some throws and HTB paid.

[dejavoodoo44]

Nice to get back in it.

[stevoswan]

We have 3 more inside 50's.....just not as clean as Melbourne going in.

[SwanSand]

Gulden doing well for a first year player. Once he gets a bit of time he is an amazing kick. Just needs to develop composure to do it under pressure.
Sinclair doing nothing from marking perspective. Longmire is hoping he gets a few marks around the ground to make it a different game but getting nothing from him. Ed Langdon is holding his width and providing them the spread.
We are in it. We just need a few more marks around the ground in offensive 50 to make it a different game.
Great game !

[stevoswan]

Sinkers!!! Would you believe it??

[Mel_C]

Can't believe McLean wasn't paid that mark and yet not 1 minute later they paid a mark to the demons that he held for just as long. It's the inconsistencies that annoy me.

Haha what a goal by Sinclair!

[dejavoodoo44]

Ruckman started it, ruckman finished it.

[Wardy]

The Dees are very good at the sneaky arm holds

[Blue Sun]

Geez these Swans are good.

[waswan]

any chance someone runs with Oliver
slowest mid in the game

[Daisi]

Nothing free against Hickey. I don't mind losing this by about 10- I just don't want it to be a blow out. I think we've played well and kept with them. If the umpiring was decent, we'd give them a really good game...I never mind losing, but umpiring inconsistency just ruins what could be a good game

[bloodspirit]

Mills, Parker, Rampe and Rowbottom have been terrific. Cunningham and Papley have also fought hard. Hickey brilliant up against Gawn.

[Ralph Dawg]

We can't win. The umpires are just too good

[Markwebbos]

We need more of that ball movement inside 50

[dejavoodoo44]

I think Mills has been excellent tonight, especially in the second half.

[Wardy]

We’ve really got to learn how to handle the wet ball.

[Wardy]

Ben brown was holding on then

[Daisi]

What's really heartening is how they just keep going.... lots of self belief in this team...

[Wardy]

And watch Pickett he’s done a lot of kicking in danger and doesn’t get pinged

[Legs Akimbo]

McCartin has been beaten tonight.

[stevoswan]

May took Bud out of the contest then.....no HTM.

[Mel_C]

Buddy is umpired differently to other forwards. He can't get a free.

[stevoswan]

Bloody turnovers!

[bloodspirit]

After last week, every time I hear "boot to ball" it sticks out like dogs' balls.

[Wardy]

Luke Darcy is doing my head in.

[Legs Akimbo]

I'm going to say the umpiring this season has just plumbed new depths. It sucks enjoyment out of watching. We were poor tonight but I am super proud we stayed with them. Can we please not pick Sinclair any more.

[AB Swannie]

I never thought I’d be saying that Tom McDonald was the difference.

[mcs]

I'm going to say the umpiring this season has just plumbed new depths. It sucks enjoyment out of watching. We were poor tonight but I am super proud we stayed with them. Can we please not pick Sinclair any more.

Effort right there tonight - really took it up to them late in the 3rd and early in the 4th. Couple of 50/50 moments didn't go our way, and as usual we saw about 9 rules books, 48 interpretations, and some utterly laughable umpiring as normal.

Disappointing outcome, but I don't doubt for one second that this team is absolutely headed in the right direction.

[stevoswan]

Luke Darcy is doing my head in.

He's sooooo Victorian it's painful......and I'm Victorian.

[Daisi]

Yes the umpiring ruined the game for me. Knew by half time we weren't going to win it because of the Vicbias...What's the point of watching or becoming a member if the umpire is so bloody woeful...This would have been a much better game with consistent umpiring.

[mcs]

He's sooooo Victorian it's painful......and I'm Victorian.

If i hadn't listened to the first half on the radio driving home on Triple MMM with 'insert ridiculous ad here', I'd want to reach into the box and just make Darcy stop..... painful.

[Faunac8]

What an impressive effort they played the game out right to the end never gave up and really pushed Melbourne who are a good team. Not sure but I think that’s probably the biggest test and closest result they have had this year. Some confusing decisions from the umpires didn’t help and while I never like to hold them too accountable it seems to be reminiscent of some of the performances we saw from them during the year of the Fairy puppies.

[Markwebbos]

Buddy starting to look his age. I hope he just needs a couple of games to get his mojo back.

[Wardy]

As much as I hate Stevic - he’s at least better than the work experience umpires that we were subject to tonight.

[SCGonasunnyday]

Effort right there tonight - really took it up to them late in the 3rd and early in the 4th. Couple of 50/50 moments didn't go our way, and as usual we saw about 9 rules books, 48 interpretations, and some utterly laughable umpiring as normal.

Disappointing outcome, but I don't doubt for one second that this team is absolutely headed in the right direction.

Yeah - perfect post. Sucks to lose but not that far off it. I think we won 3 of 4 quarters

[stevoswan]

Great effort by the lads tonight, they can hold their heads up high. Melbourne are a seriously well drilled team at the moment and we were right in it to the end.....but do we start calling Melbourne the "Deepups" any time soon??

[Wardy]

We need to also learn how to play with a wet ball.

[mcs]

Yeah - perfect post. Sucks to lose but not that far off it. I think we won 3 of 4 quarters

When you think where we are at in our development cycle compared to a team like Melbourne, I think we stack up well. We've beaten Brisbane, Geelong, Richmond and pushed Melbourne right to the line thus far this season. Had someone told me that before a ball was bounced in Rd 1 I would of said you were having a laugh.

[Faunac8]

Hard to believe but we actually won the free kick count 17-15

[stevoswan]

Buddy starting to look his age. I hope he just needs a couple of games to get his mojo back.

May is in great form but if the Bud could just win a deserved free or two, that would be nice.

[Legs Akimbo]

We need to also learn how to play with a wet ball.

They had the fumbles before the rain hit

[stevoswan]

We need to also learn how to play with a wet ball.

Yes, there was a noticeable Swans skill level drop once the rain came.

[SwanSand]

I thought we were very good against a very good side who are very well drilled. The Mills goal was the only way things were going to work for us with lever and May in defence. We just needed some run and some composure in the middle.
This performance will hold us in good stead. I reckon Longmire knew how to beat Melbourne but in the end we were not good enough.
Thought the three players who will be under pressure - Sinclair, wicks and oriordan.
Fox was amazing for first game back. Cunningham was amazing too. The opposition are putting pressure on Dawson and taking his time away.

[mcs]

Hard to believe but we actually won the free kick count 17-15

Suprising but not. Its all the calls that aren't given or just compeltely at random (5 let go then no 6 given) that drive me nuts. And I'm certain some players get completely different treatment to others out there too.

[Daisi]

I think we played really well. One positive is that we are playing the MCG really well too. That will be handy in the future.

[AB Swannie]

Buddy starting to look his age. I hope he just needs a couple of games to get his mojo back.

Nah. May is probably the AA fullback and always plays Bud well.

[Ludwig]

I'm not sure, but that last McDonald mark that he kicked for the last goal, looked like he didn't have control of the ball. It was bobbling around and may have hit the ground before he took control. It was hard to get a clear look at it, but I thought that mark was suspicious. There were a few marks that we took that were better than that one that were not called.

I thought Buddy was way off today. Didn't look right at all. Shouldn't have played.

[Foreign Legion]

When you think where we are at in our development cycle compared to a team like Melbourne, I think we stack up well. We've beaten Brisbane, Geelong, Richmond and pushed Melbourne right to the line thus far this season. Had someone told me that before a ball was bounced in Rd 1 I would of said you were having a laugh.

100%

[dejavoodoo44]

Great effort by the lads tonight, they can hold their heads up high. Melbourne are a seriously well drilled team at the moment and we were right in it to the end.....but do we start calling Melbourne the "Deepups" any time soon??
Yes, Melbourne look like a team that's had a good run with injuries and so they've developed plenty of cohesion. Plus plenty of confidence through winning.

[stevoswan]

I think we played really well. One positive is that we are playing the MCG really well too. That will be handy in the future.

Yes....after the Richmond game, I thought our game style screamed MCG. Handy indeed.

[aardvark]

That was about what I expected. A fit Sam Reid would have made a difference. I reckon we still need another tall defender to free up Rampe a bit more. Melbourne being able to take a couple of contested marks up forward was probably the difference. The umpiring was inconsistent but I didn't think there was a deliberate bias at any stage.

[Faunac8]

We finished on the right side of the ledger in most of the statistical categories, had one more scoring shot and had four of the top five players in the Fantasy points category yet according to the Fox Footy crew the Swans were lucky to get as close as they did. 🤔

[Mel_C]

He's sooooo Victorian it's painful......and I'm Victorian.
He's just a terrible commentator full stop. I've said it before I don't know how channel 7 employed him.

[mcs]

That was about what I expected. A fit Sam Reid would have made a difference. I reckon we still need another tall defender to free up Rampe a bit more. Melbourne being able to take a couple of contested marks up forward was probably the difference. The umpiring was inconsistent but I didn't think there was a deliberate bias at any stage.

Umpiring is just crap in general I think!

[Kumarangk]

Coming along very nicely ! Notice that the side won t lay down and are always in it , in true bloods
style !

[stevoswan]

That was about what I expected. A fit Sam Reid would have made a difference. I reckon we still need another tall defender to free up Rampe a bit more. Melbourne being able to take a couple of contested marks up forward was probably the difference. The umpiring was inconsistent but I didn't think there was a deliberate bias at any stage.

That is becoming a glaring deficiency now and should be a major off season mission.

[Foreign Legion]

Rampe was incredible - he usually is brilliant. Such a well balanced player and reader of the ball.

If Heeney played tonight we win. Mills may be worth a punt on the Brownlow. He has had a great consistent season.

[dejavoodoo44]

Suprising but not. Its all the calls that aren't given or just compeltely at random (5 let go then no 6 given) that drive me nuts. And I'm certain some players get completely different treatment to others out there too.
I didn't think the umpires were too bad tonight. Well, once I factored in just how random holding the ball/illegal disposal decisions are these days. Probably the area where we had the most to complain about, was we laid 34 inside 50 tackles to 14, but I don't think we were properly rewarded for that.

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Rampe was incredible - he usually is brilliant. Such a well balanced player and reader of the ball.

If Heeney played tonight we win. Mills may be worth a punt on the Brownlow. He has had a great consistent season.

Yes, despite Darcy's match long love affair with Oliver, I thought Mills was BOG tonight.

[Thunder Shaker]

Great effort, though we didn't get the win. It was a good effort to get within nine points of the side I consider to be the premiership favourites.

Some positives:
* A nine-point margin is closer to the rampant Demons than any other side has come this year so far.
* We won the last quarter (by one point). Melbourne has won every other last quarter this year. We were the first side to go with them for the whole game.
* We got no injuries in the game so far as I can tell.

[dejavoodoo44]

We finished on the right side of the ledger in most of the statistical categories, had one more scoring shot and had four of the top five players in the Fantasy points category yet according to the Fox Footy crew the Swans were lucky to get as close as they did. 🤔

I thought it was an even first quarter, Melbourne were clearly the better side in the second, and we were marginally better in the third and fourth.

[aardvark]

What we do with the second ruck is a big issue. Sinkers just isn't good enough, McLean is not a ruckman and Reid is made of tissue paper and should never be risked in the ruck again. Maybe when Naismith is ready we play him and Hickey and drop Sinkers and McLean.

[COB]

Umpiring is just crap in general I think!

Sick of people criticising the umps. It is a near impossible job. They don't get replays, have to see through a mass of bodies and often have to make subjective decisions re prior opportunity, genuine attempt to dispose of the ball, control of the ball in a mark, realistic attempt at a mark, distance run, distance ball travelled etc

[aardvark]

That is becoming a glaring deficiency now and should be a major off season mission.

How about a mid season mission. Paddy seems to go alright down back when he's not whacking people.

[mcs]

Sick of people criticising the umps. It is a near impossible job. They don't get replays, have to see through a mass of bodies and often have to make subjective decisions re prior opportunity, genuine attempt to dispose of the ball, control of the ball in a mark, realistic attempt at a mark, distance run, distance ball travelled etc

Yes Mr Stevic.... :rofl Just kidding!

No one says they do it on purpose or it is an easy job - but imho the standard of umpiring in general is not improving and getting more inconsistent by the year. Partially driven by the obsession of the AFL with tinkering, partially driven by the ongoing unwillingess of the AFL to admit that they should have made umpires truly professional a long time ago. But also driven by the fact there are some umpires out there that individually are simply not very good at being an umpire at this level either.

I've long been a critic of the AFL for not doing enough to help the umpires out - but I do think the standard of umpiring is getting worse, markedly this season again.

And do note the criticism in this case was at 'umpiring' (I.e. the action not the people).

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What we do with the second ruck is a big issue. Sinkers just isn't good enough, McLean is not a ruckman and Reid is made of tissue paper and should never be risked in the ruck again. Maybe when Naismith is ready we play him and Hickey and drop Sinkers and McLean.

Very hard one to nut out - but its a key issue, because as the season wears on, Hickey will need more consistent support, in particular if we are in genuine contention to make finals and make a stir.

[SwanSand]

I reckon the difference was only with composure with the ball when we had it vs when they had it. That is only because of ability to absorb pressure and take the right option - comes with more games under the belt. We are on the right track - in fact more than right track.
We are not getting enough contested marks in a game of footy anywhere on the ground. We need to fix that.

[Wardy]

Yes Mr Stevic.... :rofl Just kidding!

No one says they do it on purpose or it is an easy job - but imho the standard of umpiring in general is not improving and getting more inconsistent by the year. Partially driven by the obsession of the AFL with tinkering, partially driven by the ongoing unwillingess of the AFL to admit that they should have made umpires truly professional a long time ago. But also driven by the fact there are some umpires out there that individually are simply not very good at being an umpire at this level either.

I've long been a critic of the AFL for not doing enough to help the umpires out - but I do think the standard of umpiring is getting worse, markedly this season again.

And do note the criticism in this case was at 'umpiring' (I.e. the action not the people).

- - - Updated - - -



Very hard one to nut out - but its a key issue, because as the season wears on, Hickey will need more consistent support, in particular if we are in genuine contention to make finals and make a stir.
Agree with This 100% !! those of us who’ve been watching this game for over 50 years have seen the decline in umpiring over that time. And after paying $400 for a ticket to the GF in 2016 and witnessing the diabolical umpiring on display that day - I’m going to complain about umpiring if I bloody well feel like it.

[Bangalore Swans]

Papley is turning into a player I don’t admire:

- Always staging for free kicks
- Abusing umpires and giving away a 50.
- Not using teammates when they are in better position.
- On a performance level he is dropping marking opportunities and fumbling the ball.

Maybe it’s time to trade him out.

[dimelb]

Umpiring - the hardest position in the game.

The thing that surprises me is that you almost never see someone get pinged for throwing the ball. It looks like a quiet change of the rule. Not that I mind it - the game goes more quickly - but it should be official.

[Kafka's Ghost]

Great effort, though we didn't get the win. It was a good effort to get within nine points of the side I consider to be the premiership favourites.

Some positives:
* A nine-point margin is closer to the rampant Demons than any other side has come this year so far.
* We won the last quarter (by one point). Melbourne has won every other last quarter this year. We were the first side to go with them for the whole game.
* We got no injuries in the game so far as I can tell.

Spot on. A great effort, and a little more polish inside 50 would have seen a different result. Buddy looked very rusty, but neither the conditions nor the fact that May is in career-best form helped. I recall May doing a good job on him playing for the Suns.
Hayward does my head in; capable of winning the ball brilliantly, a second later he turns it straight over. The 11 point turn-around after he missed that shot proved really costly. It stopped our momentum, and gave it to the Demons.
Nevertheless, this is a team on the right track. Never gave it up for a second.

[Bangalore Swans]

Umpiring - the hardest position in the game.

The thing that surprises me is that you almost never see someone get pinged for throwing the ball. It looks like a quiet change of the rule.

Still talking about umpiring. Time for the coaches DRS challenge to come in.

[stevoswan]

* We got no injuries in the game so far as I can tell.

But I reckon Paps will have a sore nights sleep.

- - - Updated - - -


Papley is turning into a player I don’t admire:

- Always staging for free kicks
- Abusing umpires and giving away a 50.
- Not using teammates when they are in better position.
- On a performance level he is dropping marking opportunities and fumbling the ball.

Maybe it’s time to trade him out.

Oh dear.....another agitator? Seriously BS, that is a strange, strange thing to say. It's BS.

[Wardy]

Papley is turning into a player I don’t admire:

- Always staging for free kicks
- Abusing umpires and giving away a 50.
- Not using teammates when they are in better position.
- On a performance level he is dropping marking opportunities and fumbling the ball.

Maybe it’s time to trade him out.

You are joking surely???

[mcs]

Papley is turning into a player I don’t admire:

- Always staging for free kicks
- Abusing umpires and giving away a 50.
- Not using teammates when they are in better position.
- On a performance level he is dropping marking opportunities and fumbling the ball.

Maybe it’s time to trade him out.

There is pretty much a crazy post a week I reckon - this one wins this week :clap:


Still talking about umpiring. Time for the coaches DRS challenge to come in.

Mamma Mia, here we go again.

[COB]

Umpiring is just crap in general I think!


Agree with This 100% !! those of us who’ve been watching this game for over 50 years have seen the decline in umpiring over that time. And after paying $400 for a ticket to the GF in 2016 and witnessing the diabolical umpiring on display that day - I’m going to complain about umpiring if I bloody well feel like it.

No denying that we got a bad deal in 2016 gf and that umpiring probably is worse than 50 years ago but it is also a MUCH harder game to umpire plus their weren't 6 million camera angles and replays to reveal whether a decision was correct or not. Give it a go at a decent level of footy with the crowd roaring before you go to hard at them. Agree with MCS that umps need more support and maybe should go full-time.

[barry]

Why does sinclair go for marks one handed, in the rain?

[liz]

I didn't think there was much wrong with the umpiring - at least in terms of it being biased. It was a lot better than some other games this year. I'd probably have paid McLean one or both of his very close "contested marks" but I guess that's with one eye shut.

At half-time I feared we were going to be beaten convincingly. We seemed a bit timid, too respectful of the Demons in that second quarter. But excellent second half lift by our midfielders, especially.

I thought the defence played well at ground level but clearly we lost it in the air at the back. Our forward line was well-blanketed by the Dees' defence, so that's something to work on.

Given we are still in a learning / development phase, that wasn't too bad an outcome. But when I say learning/development, that's a short term thing. I hope they can made considerable strides within this season. Remember we were hardly playing premiership football at the midway point of 2005. That's not to say I'm expecting a premiership this year but I think we've shown that we didn't just get an early break on less prepared teams at the start of the year. We can grind it out with the best. We just need to work on that polish, and hope our younger mids gradually gain more confidence in their ability as the season wears on.

[Mel_C]

* We got no injuries in the game so far as I can tell.

The radio said that Rowbottom limped off the ground towards the end of the game after he was caught holding the ball. They mentioned his knee because of the strapping.

[Bangalore Swans]

You are joking surely???

I’m sorry. I don’t like it when players abuse umpires and give away
50s.

This happened didn’t it?

[Mel_C]

Papley is turning into a player I don’t admire:

- Always staging for free kicks
- Abusing umpires and giving away a 50.
- Not using teammates when they are in better position.
- On a performance level he is dropping marking opportunities and fumbling the ball.

Maybe it’s time to trade him out.

I agree with 3 of your 4 points. Disagree that he doesn't use teammates in a better position. I feel this year that he has become unselfish and he is passing the ball more. He is our barometer in the forward line and we need him buzzing around.

[MattW]

I thought we were very good against a very good side who are very well drilled. The Mills goal was the only way things were going to work for us with lever and May in defence. We just needed some run and some composure in the middle.
This performance will hold us in good stead. I reckon Longmire knew how to beat Melbourne but in the end we were not good enough.
Thought the three players who will be under pressure - Sinclair, wicks and oriordan.
Fox was amazing for first game back. Cunningham was amazing too. The opposition are putting pressure on Dawson and taking his time away.

I agree that Sinclair, Wicks and O’Riordan are not best 22. Let’s get Braeden in for Colin, and if Reid isn’t fit, Logan in for Sinclair. Wicks may ultimately be, but needs a break.

[stevoswan]

Why does sinclair go for marks one handed, in the rain?

I think I remember that one, pretty much in front of goal. I think he wanted to tap it to a team mate but should have just marked it as he was basically unopposed. Silly decision. Can't take a bloody chest mark either. As a Lever decoy (only 9 disposals), it sort of worked tonight and as much as he tries his guts out, I think his time is nigh. He provides depth value only now.

[MattW]

Positives:

Absolutely sensational game from Mills.

Another stormer from Warner, who’s fast becoming a personal favourite.

I thought Lloyd embarrassed the chronic detractors; ran as hard as anyone.

As good as McInerney has played in a tight game.

[goods78]

How Sinclair was selected on a greasy night is beyond me. Could be his last game for a while.

Buddy did not look like he was moving well at all and unfortunately was up against a good defender. I don’t want him finishing off his career trying to milk free kicks. Play him when the medical team and coaches both deem he is fit.


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[Vonsteinman]

I love that we really gave ourselves a shot at this against the benchmark and there is bloodletting.

Lighten up.

So much upside from tonight. We were two kicks away from winning against the undefeated side with our new forward line producing sweet fa.

We are right in this season, up to our eyeballs.

[troyjones2525]

Why does sinclair go for marks one handed, in the rain?Was thinking the same thing Barry. Often goes up one handed.

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[crackedactor 01]

Great effort by the boys. I felt the only difference on the day was Oliver, whom never seem to fumble the ball when almost everyone else had the fumbles.

[liz]

I agree that Sinclair, Wicks and O’Riordan are not best 22. Let’s get Braeden in for Colin, and if Reid isn’t fit, Logan in for Sinclair. Wicks may ultimately be, but needs a break.

I thought COR looked lost in the first half. Lost and fumbly. But he turned it around after half-time and did some good stuff. I'm not sure Campbell would have been any better at this stage of his career.


Positives:


Another stormer from Warner, who’s fast becoming a personal favourite.



Warner continues to be a revelation this year. Or maybe he's done it so regularly that I should stop being surprised.

Watching Oliver (who had a very good game), it occurred to me that one day (hopefully soon) Warner will develop the supreme confidence in his ability that Oliver has, and then watch out. (Another season or two of strength conditioning will help too.)

[Bangalore Swans]

I agree with 3 of your 4 points. Disagree that he doesn't use teammates in a better position. I feel this year that he has become unselfish and he is passing the ball more. He is our barometer in the forward line and we need him buzzing around.

Papley is buzzing around and I can’t fault him on effect or intensity. He is perhaps going too fast and that leads him to not having the composure of a Tony Green.

I believe he can become as good as Green in time.

I think showing due respect to the umpires is an important fundamental in AFL. By abusing an umpire and giving a 50m he is demonstrating a complete lack of respect for umpires.

[bennyfabulous]

Papley is buzzing around and I can’t fault him on effect or intensity. He is perhaps going too fast and that leads him to not having the composure of a Tony Green.

I believe he can become as good as Green in time.

I think showing due respect to the umpires is an important fundamental in AFL. By abusing an umpire and giving a 50m he is demonstrating a complete lack of respect for umpires.

You have to earn respect mate. I cant say even 1 of them deserves respect atm.

[MattW]

I thought COR looked lost in the first half. Lost and fumbly. But he turned it around after half-time and did some good stuff. I'm not sure Campbell would have been any better at this stage of his career.



Warner continues to be a revelation this year. Or maybe he's done it so regularly that I should stop being surprised.

Watching Oliver (who had a very good game), it occurred to me that one day (hopefully soon) Warner will develop the supreme confidence in his ability that Oliver has, and then watch out. (Another season or two of strength conditioning will help too.)

On Colin and Braeden:
- Braeden offers a better kick, ambition, counterpunch run. Probably not as strong, sure.
- unless we think it’s detrimental to play Braeden, his development is a comparative priority.

Warner is already our most powerful midfield runner. Nearest competition is Florent, but the latter is more evasive. Chad is power - in the hips, with speed, takes initiative. He’s going to be frighteningly good.

[Nico]

I was at the game and but for a couple of critical fumbles we could have won. I had a great view and Melbourne we very good at clogging up the area 30 metres from our goal. I think our forwards worked very hard at keeping the ball in our forward line. Not enough credit given to our backline who played with great desperation.

Just a point with Errol; there were a couple of times where he didn't pick up cleanly and it looked to me he was waiting for body contact to play for a free.

We had a lot of the play in the last quarter and just couldn't get that little bit of luck to go our way. At the game the umpiring didn't look too bad but then again sometimes at the game you can't pick some those holds on players as mentioned in previous posts.

That was a tough hard game of footy and we just kept coming.

I bet Melbourne supporters are whingeing just as much as Swans supporters, because at the game when a Swans got a finger nail on the footy it was, "ball".

That was a top of the table game and as others have said we are on the way.

On Chad Warner; he is a genuine gun but the stats only give him 9 kicks and 6 handballs. Could it be that Mills gets some of his stats. I just love Chads desperation and he has a super tank.

[liz]

On Colin and Braeden:
- Braeden offers a better kick, ambition, counterpunch run. Probably not as strong, sure.
.

I think Colin is better defensively at the moment. And while Campbell possesses a powerful kick, he's still learning how and when to use it. In last week's VFL game he was guilty of trying to kick it as far and hard as he could at every opportunity, irrespective of what was in front of him. He'll soon learn it's a weapon to use judiciously, and that "great AFL kicks" have a variety of tools in their kit bag.

[liz]

On Chad Warner; he is a genuine gun but the stats only give him 9 kicks and 6 handballs. Could it be that Mills gets some of his stats. I just love Chads desperation and he has a super tank.

I'd be surprised if Mills were being credited with Warner possessions.

I'm a little surprised he got that few because he seemed to be in the thick of the action. I reckon he had a lot of touches - knock ons - that don't receive credit in the stats. One of the things I like about him is that he stays in the contest when either he initially fumbles, or a team mate's disposal goes astray.

[SwanSand]

Interestingly despite us playing three players coming off injuries, young ones supposedly needing rest, and the game played in greasy conditions we used only 65 interchanges. Seems like a low number

[Foreign Legion]

On Colin and Braeden:
- Braeden offers a better kick, ambition, counterpunch run. Probably not as strong, sure.
- unless we think it’s detrimental to play Braeden, his development is a comparative priority.

Warner is already our most powerful midfield runner. Nearest competition is Florent, but the latter is more evasive. Chad is power - in the hips, with speed, takes initiative. He’s going to be frighteningly good.

I really like Florent but I agree. Warner may very well win a Brownlow - he is going to be a champ.

EDIT

I guess I should say I think he is going to be better than Campbell, Gudlen and McDonald - which is a very good thing if I am correct.

[Velour&Ruffles]

Sick of people criticising the umps. It is a near impossible job. They don't get replays, have to see through a mass of bodies and often have to make subjective decisions re prior opportunity, genuine attempt to dispose of the ball, control of the ball in a mark, realistic attempt at a mark, distance run, distance ball travelled etc

If you can't see through the mass of bodies then don't make a call. One of my pet hatreds of umpires is the fact that they seem to believe that, like Clark Kent, they have x-ray vision and know exactly what was happening through an impenetrable sea of bodies. if you can't see it, don't pay it. It's pretty effing simple.

- - - Updated - - -

+1

[stevoswan]

If you can't see through the mass of bodies then don't make a call. One of my pet hatreds of umpires is the fact that they seem to believe that, like Clark Kent, they have x-ray vision and know exactly what was happening through an impenetrable sea of bodies. if you can't see it, don't pay it. It's pretty effing simple.



Spot on.

[liz]

What umpiring decisions in this game are upsetting people?

[Foreign Legion]

I will go Liz

I reckon there were a lot of holding the ball decisions - especially early. Throws are getting REALLY bad imho

[TheBloods]

Mids smashed but all things considered it went as well as we could hope short of getting the win. Our midfield mix needs to be Jpk, Parker, Mills and Warner. Forget Florent. I think hes a good player but hes not an inside mids A hole. Better in space where he can use his toe. Very damaging player. Him on one wing, Jmac on the other - Mills and Chad our next gen bulls and captain&vice captain. By the time Kennedy is retired we would hope Gulden or Campbell or Stephens will be in there ??

Too many average footballers out there cost us tonight but all gave extraordinary effort. We have ways to go until we have a 22 of all quality players. One week at a time.

[TheBloods]

& i dont think much of him as a player but Rowbottom was crunched and came away winded clutching his ribs , then there was a pause in play and that rat Oliver went out of his way to charge at Rowbottom off the ball and to get at his ribs as he's @@@@@@@ obviously sore and clutching them ! Filthy , did anyone at the game see this it was clear as day on tellie and not a commentator or umpire did a thing about it !

[Legs Akimbo]

What umpiring decisions in this game are upsetting people?

I'll bite. Number 1 is tackles followed by incorrect disposal without being rewarded. The interpretation seems to have changed completely.

Some examples...

Just after Sinclair dropped his sitter, Melbourne player clearly has prior opprtunity, tackled and goes to ground HTB but not rewarded (around 4:45 to go) there are a sequence of head scratchers around that period. 5:02 to go Warner tackled high, no free (was it advantage?),

Last qtr 5:28 to go free against dawson. Melbourne player threw head back. There was nothing there.

15:01 mark final qtr swan driven into ground no free. At another time same event in reverse with free paid against.

I could go on.

Having said that there are examples the other way. Also we didn't lose because of the umpiring. Clayton Oliver was a beast and McDonald was really good. I'm amazed we got a close as we did.

[Bangalore Swans]

You have to earn respect mate. I cant say even 1 of them deserves respect atm.

There were decisions that went the Swans way as well. Umpires make mistakes like any human.

I think Papley’s behaviour towards the umpires is not good. It feels like his conduct towards umpires is petulant and bratish.

On the other hand I witnessed some incredibly positive conduct from Kysaiah Pickett from Melbourne:

- has a contest in the forward pocket. Offers both his hands to drag up both his team mate and the Swans opponent.

- has a contest with Cunningham where they both ended up on a table. Pickett and Cunningham both smile and help each other off the table.

- Pickett plays with joy and looks like he loves the game.

I would tell my son to watch Pickett play and take note on how he conducts himself. I would tell my son that Papley is a good footballer but don’t you ever behave towards umpires like he does.

[The Runner]

No one mentioned "the standard of umpiring" last week.

- Gulden: he's clearly playing for frees, and trying to do too much. When he just played footy he looked great. First time I've seen a big gap between his best and worst in a game
- Warner: does anyone else watch him and think his only issue is that he doesn't yet believe how good he is? He seems to surprise himself how easily he creates space for himself. Love his simplistic approach to just "get it, go as far as you can and kick it long"
- Hayward: depth player at the moment. Hurts us with decision making and goal kicking
- Mills: taking over the mantle more each week. Great game
- Rampe: every week does more than anyone else on ground
- Cunningham: his discipline in defence has gone unnoticed. Fantastic job on Kosi, shutting down a really difficult opponent
- Lloyd: again, do much footy for such little impact
- McLean: only forward to compete in the air
- Papley: similar to Gulden. Just play footy and shut up
- Jmac: really floats in and out of a game. Needs to start having a sustained impact out there
- Rowbottom: loved his multiple attempts to get us doing something different (short kicks inside 50, switches etc). We were too predictable

Overall, great effort. They had two noticeable injuries (Viney and Tomlinson) but covered them well. We had Heeney, Reid, Naismith and didn't cover them at all.

[dejavoodoo44]

Last qtr 5:28 to go free against dawson. Melbourne player threw head back. There was nothing there.


You're probably referring to Spargo, who jerked his back as if he had been whacked, prior to any contact being made. And when contact was made, it was minimal and largely of his own doing.

A few weeks ago, he did the same against Geelong. It was even more blatant and I commented at the time, that I hoped he would be fined for staging. However, he wasn't fined, and since he's still being rewarded, he'll probably keep doing it: until he is fined, or he cops a high degree of public shaming.

[i'm-uninformed2]

What umpiring decisions in this game are upsetting people?

Easy. The inconsistency on HTB. There were three of four occasions, our blokes applied a good tackle, and after a sustained period, Melbourne players simply were stripped of the ball, or dropped it.

[Blood Fever]

I was at the game and but for a couple of critical fumbles we could have won. I had a great view and Melbourne we very good at clogging up the area 30 metres from our goal. I think our forwards worked very hard at keeping the ball in our forward line. Not enough credit given to our backline who played with great desperation.

Just a point with Errol; there were a couple of times where he didn't pick up cleanly and it looked to me he was waiting for body contact to play for a free.

We had a lot of the play in the last quarter and just couldn't get that little bit of luck to go our way. At the game the umpiring didn't look too bad but then again sometimes at the game you can't pick some those holds on players as mentioned in previous posts.

That was a tough hard game of footy and we just kept coming.

I bet Melbourne supporters are whingeing just as much as Swans supporters, because at the game when a Swans got a finger nail on the footy it was, "ball".

That was a top of the table game and as others have said we are on the way.

On Chad Warner; he is a genuine gun but the stats only give him 9 kicks and 6 handballs. Could it be that Mills gets some of his stats. I just love Chads desperation and he has a super tank.

Spot on post

[gloveski]

Mids smashed but all things considered it went as well as we could hope short of getting the win. Our midfield mix needs to be Jpk, Parker, Mills and Warner. Forget Florent. I think hes a good player but hes not an inside mids A hole. Better in space where he can use his toe. Very damaging player. Him on one wing, Jmac on the other - Mills and Chad our next gen bulls and captain&vice captain. By the time Kennedy is retired we would hope Gulden or Campbell or Stephens will be in there ??

Too many average footballers out there cost us tonight but all gave extraordinary effort. We have ways to go until we have a 22 of all quality players. One week at a time.

I thought our midfield was pretty good , we won the clearances 17-4 . Our biggest issue was our run and dare off half back . It seemed non existent watching from the ground . We need some run and gun off half back like the early rounds .
Not sure what balance we can have there though as generally the back line was pretty good just stagnant bringing it out


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[SwanSand]

Let’s give credit to Melbourne that they were better at shutting down our offence even though we had heaps of the ball. That is what good teams do. Our defence on the other hand was good at the back half but at times in the middle of the ground we let them waltz through it a bit too easily. This must be related to positioning, running a certain line in offence and defence etc.
We missed extra marking target in the forward half who can take a screamer - Heeney. We had too many players who could not take a mark in f50 but we kept bombing the ball. I reckon atleast 20 entries were bombing the ball.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

What we do with the second ruck is a big issue. Sinkers just isn't good enough, McLean is not a ruckman and Reid is made of tissue paper and should never be risked in the ruck again. Maybe when Naismith is ready we play him and Hickey and drop Sinkers and McLean.
Weather wise, it was not a god night to play both Sinkers and McLean. But leaving the wet aside, I wonder whether we can play two guys that are so limited when the ball hits the ground.
FWIW Sinkers one handed marking attempts made me wonder if he had a hand injury. Horrible.

Buddy may be better for the run, and he'll have less capable opponents than May, so hopefully feel less need to stage for frees.

[gloveski]

Weather wise, it was not a god night to play both Sinkers and McLean. But leaving the wet aside, I wonder whether we can play two guys that are so limited when the ball hits the ground.
FWIW Sinkers one handed marking attempts made me wonder if he had a hand injury. Horrible.

Buddy may be better for the run, and he'll have less capable opponents than May, so hopefully feel less need to stage for frees.

Agree as much as he has been a warrior for us I think it’s time to move past Sinclair. He dropped some easy marks and he just doesn’t have soft hands in the Ruck . Might have been better to play the lizard as our second Ruck in hindsight.
I also think we will play McDonald going forward as another target the bombing it down the line just played into Melbourne’s hands .


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[gloveski]

Let’s give credit to Melbourne that they were better at shutting down our offence even though we had heaps of the ball. That is what good teams do. Our defence on the other hand was good at the back half but at times in the middle of the ground we let them waltz through it a bit too easily. This must be related to positioning, running a certain line in offence and defence etc.
We missed extra marking target in the forward half who can take a screamer - Heeney. We had too many players who could not take a mark in f50 but we kept bombing the ball. I reckon atleast 20 entries were bombing the ball.

We have completely stopped hitting that short option inside 50 like we done so well the first few rounds


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[Nico]

Agree as much as he has been a warrior for us I think it’s time to move past Sinclair. He dropped some easy marks and he just doesn’t have soft hands in the Ruck . Might have been better to play the lizard as our second Ruck in hindsight.
I also think we will play McDonald going forward as another target the bombing it down the line just played into Melbourne’s hands .


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As I said in my post, they took away those options 30 metres out. I don't know that players out of the midfield had much option. We got our hands on the ball up forward but couldn't clunk the marks. They were able to get quick transition into an open forward line a few times for goals, which was almost the difference in the game.

[Wardy]

I’m sorry. I don’t like it when players abuse umpires and give away
50s.

This happened didn’t it?

I’m sorry, I don’t like it when umpires continually make bad decisions.

This happened didn’t it??

As you say umpires are humans - last time I looked so are players.

But to appease you we should trade Papley - yeah rightio.

[Ralph Dawg]

I’m sorry, I don’t like it when umpires continually make bad decisions.

This happened didn’t it??

But to appease you we should trade him - yeah rightio.
Papley is our only small forward to consistently have impact. Wicks and Errol are drifting in and out of the game currently. Ronke is just either injured or not playing well. Bell just not quite up to AFL standard, let alone anywhere near elite. And God forbid if we have to depend on Gray or Squiz.

But sure, let's trade Papley because he occasionally loses his cool, largely I suspect because he is so passionate about contributing to us winning.

[gloveski]

As I said in my post, they took away those options 30 metres out. I don't know that players out of the midfield had much option. We got our hands on the ball up forward but couldn't clunk the marks. They were able to get quick transition into an open forward line a few times for goals, which was almost the difference in the game.

Yes there transition from our bombs forward was a massive difference . That’s we’re a good leading forward like Heeney or even McDonald might have made a difference . They drag the defenders out of the hole


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[Wardy]

I’m sorry. I don’t like it when players abuse umpires and give away
50s.

This happened didn’t it?


Papley is our only small forward to consistently have impact. Wicks and Errol are drifting in and out of the game currently. Ronke is just either injured or not playing well. Bell just not quite up to AFL standard, let alone anywhere near elite. And God forbid if we have to depend on Gray or Squiz.

But sure, let's trade Papley because he occasionally loses his cool, largely I suspect because he is so passionate about contributing to us winning.
Agree - the suggestion from BS to trade Papley is just ludicrous. Every player loses their cool at some stage, it’s not pretty but geez It’s not a reason to trade them.

We also have to stop encouraging kids to look up to sportsmen as role models. A role model should be parents or people who do something worthwhile to help others in the community and make the world a better place, not some bloke who kicks a footY around an oval.

[Ralph Dawg]

Agree - the suggestion from BS to trade Papley is just ludicrous. Every player loses their cool at some stage, it’s not pretty but geez It’s not a reason to trade them.

We also have to stop encouraging kids to look up to sportsmen as role models. A role model should be parents or people who do something worthwhile to help others in the community and make the world a better place, not some bloke who kicks a footY around an oval.
Totally agree. My son loves Footy and I always make it clear to him that these guys are flawed humans, just like the rest of us. It's also important to put their in game behaviour and intensity in context. Playing U10s on a suburban ground has completely different stakes as compared to the G on a Saturday night. To date, my son has behaved with complete respect towards the umpires and officials, even though he tries to model his game on Pap's, even down to his kicking style (he's a little feisty dude!).

[bloodspirit]

I am with you all the way on the umpiring, COB.

Of our youth, I thought Rowbottom, Warner and McInerney were all terrific. RB faded towards the end, perhaps because of the hit he took. Gulden has been the best of our first year players but he hasn't been able to sustain his output from the first weeks of the season. Wicks gives his all but is less talented. May or may not be able to hold his spot long term.

Of our seniors, Mills, Rampe and Parker were huge. Cunningham and Lloyd also did very well.

Hickey has been our MVP all year. He is not our best player but he is the player who we can least afford to lose, and who makes the greatest difference to whether we win or lose.

Important debate about rucks. I don't favour playing two pure rucks. And none of our ruck-forwards are currently good enough. I think we should play Hickey plus bits and pieces (Reid, McLean, Blakey, Fox, whoever). When Naismith is fit, he can be our cover for Hickey. Sinclair is third choice. I was against playing Sinclair last night, and I haven't changed my mind.

I wonder if this off season we can go again at targeting a promising young ruck for trade. Are Ladham and Hayes at Port any good playing forward? We need to be able to offer a position in the best 22, and we can't do that unless they are. Now that we're no longer 16th in the comp, and we have cap space opening up, we're a better chance of bringing someone in. If not them, someone else. Plus another rawer prospect as well. Meanwhile I'm ready to retire Sinclair and delist Amartey at season's end, as things stand now.

Melbourne's defence was outstanding and Oliver and McDonald were the two best on ground. So impressive that we cleaned up the clearances 17-4. I would never have predicted that.

Overall I was really proud of the boys and heartened by our performance despite the loss. They are a very strong outfit, a little ahead of us in development, and we took it right to them.

I feel we have plenty of upside when you look at who we have not playing- whether due to injury or youth/inexperience: Heeney, Reid, Stephens, McDonald, Campbell, Blakey. Four of these guys are top 5 ND draft picks. Except for Heeney, they are all 1st or 2nd year. I haven't given up on Gould, Melican and Ling yet either. And we have players with currency (Hayward, Hewett) plus draft picks to keep improving our list. We're good now, and we're going to get even better.

[Markwebbos]

Re: The ruck, I like what the Bulldogs and Demons have done, which is recruit a young ruckman that can play forward as the second fiddle to someone like Hickey. Even if the Dogs tried to play English as the main ruck the setup now is one we could copy.

Would Naismith be any worse than Sinclair as a 3rd tall? We are very light on for talls at both ends of the ground. We need to start drafting / trading some in ASAP.

[aardvark]

I'd play Naismith as the main ruck, Hickey at full forward/2nd ruck and Reid at CHB.

[MattW]

I'd play Naismith as the main ruck and Hickey at full forward/2nd ruck.

Yes, maybe; although a fit Reid is sufficient.

I'm at Dean Towers levels of 'surely *this time* they won't pick him again' with Sinclair. Before the game, the main reservation I had about winning was Sinclair's selection. He's not 'serviceable'; he's a liability. Obviously.

John explained the reasoning after the game - Melbourne had two rucks, Hickey's PCL - but effectively acknowledged it was a mistake.

The problem is with Reid out, they don't have a decent resting ruck. McLean gets beaten in the ruck and is slow around the ground. They might need to roll the dice on Amartey. Otherwise, they could lean into the Blakey option.

[TheBloods]

FMD why would we move Hickey outbof the ruck ?? Best weve had since Jolly

[NeonBible]

& i dont think much of him as a player but Rowbottom was crunched and came away winded clutching his ribs , then there was a pause in play and that rat Oliver went out of his way to charge at Rowbottom off the ball and to get at his ribs as he's @@@@@@@ obviously sore and clutching them ! Filthy , did anyone at the game see this it was clear as day on tellie and not a commentator or umpire did a thing about it !

Yes TB this happened directly in front of me on the wing opposite the members reserve. I thought it looked like he was holding his lower arm more than his ribs and Clayton oliver came over and tried to claw at it ? Unsure. It was very perculiar though and did seem an unsportsmanlike thing to do. Reminded me of Carlisle slapping Rampe's gloved hand. RB seemed fine so maybe nothing in it though.

[bloodspirit]

FMD why would we move Hickey outbof the ruck ?? Best weve had since Jolly

Exactly. Although not sure what FMD stands for. Might be better that way.

[COB]

If you can't see through the mass of bodies then don't make a call. One of my pet hatreds of umpires is the fact that they seem to believe that, like Clark Kent, they have x-ray vision and know exactly what was happening through an impenetrable sea of bodies. if you can't see it, don't pay it. It's pretty effing simple.

- - - Updated - - -

+1

So can I assume if that if a free kick should have been paid to a Swans player but wasn't because the umpire couldn't see it you would be fine with that. Not likely.

[Aprilbr]

While I'm not a big fan of Sinclair he was there to help out the amazing Hickey given the latter's bravery in playing with a major knee injury. He did kick a great goal at one stage although he also missed other good opportunities. He may be our best bet until others are available? I'm not a big fan of playing the Lizard in the ruck.

I was at the game like others. My main observation is that our forward line looked stagnant at times and Melbourne was very effective in flooding back so that there were absolutely no options for the kicker going forward. We needed to take the game on more and get some quick ball in but that rarely happened. Rowbottom and Chad tried their best to get that going in the second half. We also lacked a lead-up forward like Heeney. Brown did that very well for the Dee's and also used his height advantage. Overall, I thought that we did well to get as close but we are not a contender this year. However, we may sneak into the top 8.

[stevoswan]

Mids smashed.....

Forget Florent. I think hes a good player but hes not an inside mids A hole.


We won the centre clearances 17 to 4 but lost the stoppage clearances by 11. Could you please supply some further evidence to back up the above assertion or is the stoppage clearance discrepancy your only evidence? If so, I wouldn't call it 'smashed', considering we won the clearances overall......and are statements like the Florent one really necessary? You may call it 'passion' or something, I call it downright rude and disrespectful.

[stevoswan]

i dont think much of him as a player but Rowbottom.....etc

He played better than Chad last night....not that Chad played bad, he just didn't play as well as RB....sore ribs and all. Credit where it's due TB instead of this stubborn and relentless doubling down on your stupidity on RB. I don't ever expect you to back down, it doesn't seem to be in your nature but some maturity on the subject would be refreshing.

[Kafka's Ghost]

Kudos to Cunningham for his incredibly disciplined job on Pickett, and also for the job on Fritsch. Was it Fox? I also dips me lid to Jake Lloyd, who played one of the best all-round games I’ve seen him play. Pity we weren’t able to do more with our centre square dominance, the dynamism of Heeney was greatly missed.

[stevoswan]

No one mentioned "the standard of umpiring" last week.


Are you actually serious??? Go back and check last weeks match thread! Sheese, what a weird statement. Are you and Bangalore Swans the umpires cheering squad?! FFS!

[stevoswan]

We have completely stopped hitting that short option inside 50 like we done so well the first few rounds



Possibly due to Melbourne's disciplined defensive set up? We don't always have a choice. The same applies to all those complaining about us 'bombing it in'.....we don't always have a choice. Sometimes the opposition has a say in this.

[Markwebbos]

We won the centre clearances 17 to 4 but lost the stoppage clearances by 11. Could you please supply some further evidence to back up the above assertion or is the stoppage clearance discrepancy your only evidence? If so, I wouldn't call it 'smashed', considering we won the clearances overall......and are statements like the Florent one really necessary? You may call it 'passion' or something, I call it downright rude and disrespectful.

We won pretty much every stat (P, CP, tackles, inside 50, clearances etc) except hitouts and on the scoreboard. We also had the top 4 players on AFL Fantasy (Mills, Lloyd, RB, Parker). Our mids were definitely not "smashed"

I agree re: Cunningham. He's taken over from Smith as lockdown defender on the best small forward. It's a bit unfair to look at his stats offensively. I also agree that Lloyd had a really good game.

[Ralph Dawg]

I'd play Naismith as the main ruck, Hickey at full forward/2nd ruck and Reid at CHB.
No way. Winning the tap is only a very small part of the modern day ruckman's job. Gawn smashed Hick and Sinclair 43-29 (Hick got 17) in the hitouts yet I would say the individual dual was a draw. This was due to Hick's work around the ground. He is like having another midfielder. We need Hick on ball as much as possible.
Naismith offers almost zero outside of the ruck contest. His stats say as much. He's not really a good contested mark, immobile and not a known goal kicker so can't park him up forward. He makes Sinclair look like a gazelle.
After last night, I'm convinced there is no value in pairing Hickey with either Sinclair or Naismith. Much better off going with Reid for the chop out and if he's not available, then get Amartey in (if McLean not suitable) or use Blakey. Blakey has actually looked pretty handy in the few ruck contests I've seen him in. Incredible leap.

[Mel_C]

Was thinking the same thing Barry. Often goes up one handed.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk
Maybe he's confused and he thinks he is contesting the ruck 🙂.

[gloveski]

Possibly due to Melbourne's disciplined defensive set up? We don't always have a choice. The same applies to all those complaining about us 'bombing it in'.....we don't always have a choice. Sometimes the opposition has a say in this.

To a point that’s correct but when you play talks like McLean and Sinclair there more likely to stick there hands in the air and hail cabs . Buddy coming back from injury was a bit the same . It needs some dummy leads and multiple leads from forwards to clear the space . The last think you want to do against Melbourne is long down the line . May and lever are two of the best in the game and nullifying this type of play .
Melbourne are a super organised defence that’s why they are 8 and 0 .
Out forward line definitely a work in progress


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rojo]

I like your observation Gloveski 're having McLean and Sinclair together in the forward line. As someone else has pointed out not having Heeney there made a difference. It shows though how important it will be to have a mobile key forward ie our Logan, trained up ready to come back in. At the moment though he may not have been able to do much better against Melbourne's very strong and effective backline clogging!

[giant]

Fabulous effort against the standard bearers of the competition - various times when we might have raised the white flag, but instead doubled down with effort. Swans footy is alive and well!

Rarely feel this positive after a loss, but can start to really believe that we belong in finals this year and our upside is tremendous. Pretty much our best 22 out there tonight bar Heeney & Reid (for I guess Sinclair and Hayward), so let's hope we can keep some continuity for next few weeks at least.

Clayton Oliver is a very very good young footballer - hope he's being paid good $.

[TheBloods]

He played better than Chad last night....not that Chad played bad, he just didn't play as well as RB....sore ribs and all. Credit where it's due TB instead of this stubborn and relentless doubling down on your stupidity on RB. I don't ever expect you to back down, it doesn't seem to be in your nature but some maturity on the subject would be refreshing.

Sorry what does Chad have to do with it ? My comment was about a dog act on Rowbottom

[Bangalore Swans]

I’m sorry, I don’t like it when umpires continually make bad decisions.

This happened didn’t it??

As you say umpires are humans - last time I looked so are players.

But to appease you we should trade Papley - yeah rightio.

Papley’s behaviour towards umpires has to improve. Last year he was fined $500 for staging. Last night he abused an umpire and gave a 50m penalty away.

I know most people on here are huge Papley supporters and probably blame the umpires for Papley’s behaviour.

I think in fact it’s become “Swanism” to blame umpires and AFL house if things are not working out.

[joeykanga]

Hands down the most annoying poster on here with your smug holier than thou attitudes...So glad to have Papley in our team with his spirit and personality ...he doesn’t need watering down ...on the other hand maybe you do ...
You annoy me everytime you post

[stevoswan]

Sorry what does Chad have to do with it ? My comment was about a dog act on Rowbottom

I think you know exactly what I mean.....you're a Chad fan boy as we all are so I thought I'd point out something you may not be aware of due to you're prejudice.....and I just don't think it's wise or kind to start any sentence with "I don't think much of him as a player" when writing about a Swan with copious talent and determination and everything that embodies 'The Bloods' ethos. Fair enough?

[stevoswan]

I think in fact it’s become “Swanism” to blame umpires and AFL house if things are not working out.

Seriously pathetic comment. Just know that if you keep defending the umpires and the AFL, it's a battle you will lose.....because in regard to the Swans, your argument is in reality, deluded.

[Wardy]

Papley’s behaviour towards umpires has to improve. Last year he was fined $500 for staging. Last night he abused an umpire and gave a 50m penalty away.

I know most people on here are huge Papley supporters and probably blame the umpires for Papley’s behaviour.

I think in fact it’s become “Swanism” to blame umpires and AFL house if things are not working out.

The fact is Papley isn’t a dirty player, yep he has lost his cool a few times just like 75% of other players in the competition - just because he doesn’t live up to your lofty standards is not a reason to trade him.

[Bangalore Swans]

Hands down the most annoying poster on here with your smug holier than thou attitudes...So glad to have Papley in our team with his spirit and personality ...he doesn’t need watering down ...on the other hand maybe you do ...
You annoy me everytime you post

Appreciate your feedback. For the record I think Papley is an excellent footballer who plays with great effort and intensity.

I just have a gripe with footballers who get on the wrong side of officials. I really liked Zak Jones but then he started giving away silly reverse free kicks and got on the wrong side of officials.

[crackedactor 01]

Papley’s behaviour towards umpires has to improve. Last year he was fined $500 for staging. Last night he abused an umpire and gave a 50m penalty away.

I know most people on here are huge Papley supporters and probably blame the umpires for Papley’s behaviour.

I think in fact it’s become “Swanism” to blame umpires and AFL house if things are not working out.

Do you know what he actually said? Rumour has it he said " You must be Joking" If this is the case I would heap the blame on the umpire for being too precious.

[TheBloods]

I think you know exactly what I mean.....you're a Chad fan boy as we all are so I thought I'd point out something you may not be aware of due to you're prejudice.....and I just don't think it's wise or kind to start any sentence with "I don't think much of him as a player" when writing about a Swan with copious talent and determination and everything that embodies 'The Bloods' ethos. Fair enough?

You might not think its wise but its my opinion. & one i think is being proven. The talent gulf between someone like Chad and him is clear. But i will indulge you .. what copious talent does he have ? I think you might be right that he has determination. ive even said he would make a good tagger. Strong tackler. I would maybe move him to HBF instead of o'riordan to play a defensive role. I reckon he'd carve a fine career in the red&white in that position. I know you will think im hating on him - im not i just dont see the midfield talent in him. In fact i would like to see him succeed and tihnk his best chances of doing so are in a defensive role where he can be accountable for an opponent without having to win as much of the ball or do much with it. Other than that im not sure what he offers in the midfield.

[Nico]

Appreciate your feedback. For the record I think Papley is an excellent footballer who plays with great effort and intensity.

I just have a gripe with footballers who get on the wrong side of officials. I really liked Zak Jones but then he started giving away silly reverse free kicks and got on the wrong side of officials.

If you have umpired a game at senior level you will understand that every player mouths off at the Umps. AFL, VFL, Amateurs and suburban footy. No decision is correct, whingeing about everything and anything that comes into their minds and any goal/point decision is wrong. Yep, players are so good at being right that they can be 30 metres out from goal and call a close goal/point decision when kicked from an acute angle at goal post height. Haven't you noticed that when a defender or forward gets out marked that they stretch their jumper to say they were held. So it's folly to single a player out for his antics.