R12 Swans V Saints @SCG - Live

[Aaron]

A sunny day. Let the fun begin. Go Swans

[Aaron]

Starting Bench: [1] Chad Warner, [6] Logan McDonald, [8] James Rowbottom, [29] George Hewett

[Aaron]

Bell the medical sub

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[stevoswan]

Slow start but getting on track now. Goals to Bud and Heeney....nice.

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.....and now McDonald......good signs.

[Ralph Dawg]

I'm liking the flexibility of having Amartey in the team. Taking the rucks in the F50 as well as giving the Hick a break

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Buddy covering the territory like he's back in his 20s

[stevoswan]

McCartin.....shoulder? Could be ok by the sounds of it.

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Goal to the Saints from a free.....mmmm.

[Foreign Legion]

Bloody hell that was a bad contest.

[stevoswan]

I'm not watching...was that a mark to King? ABC commentators not convinced.

Disappointing end to that quarter.

[Mel_C]

What was the 50 for that led to the last goal by the Saints?

[Foreign Legion]

I'm not watching...was that a mark to King? ABC commentators not convinced.

Disappointing end to that quarter.

It looked a mark to me unfortunately.

[Legs Akimbo]

I think the technical term is playing like millionaires...

[Blue Sun]

Absolutely shocking 10 minutes. Good way to lose a game.

[Mel_C]

We are getting caught holding the ball alot today. It's costing us.

We ended the quarter badly and it's continued into the second quarter.

[Foreign Legion]

Why do we play to the standard of the opposition?

We beat Geelong, Richmond, Brisbane but falter against crap teams.

McCartin should have gone long to Hickey.

[stevoswan]

Did we get cocky after our 4th goal? Because since then we have not sounded like scoring.

[Legs Akimbo]

..and here come the umpires.

[stevoswan]

Worrying trend......6 frees to 1 in Saints favour. A quarter and a bit and 1 free to us? Mmmmm.

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The Bud answers......keep it going now boys.

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Go Logan.....great to see him back and scoring goals early.

[Legs Akimbo]

Definite lack of intensity. At this stage, Saints look like they want it more to be honest.

[stevoswan]

Not real happy at half time......from what I've heard on the radio. Lucky Seb Ross stuffed up there near the end of the quarter! Sheese!

We are better than this.....give them a rocket Horse.

[longmile]

Definite lack of intensity. At this stage, Saints look like they want it more to be honest.

I think we're playing with intensity, but we keep kicking it to 3 on 1s in the forward half

[Foreign Legion]

Not a very inspiring first half.

We have big targets in the forward line but not really using them. Amartey played a very good first half for a 2nd game player.

[Blood Fever]

What was the 50 for that led to the last goal by the Saints?

Shocker

[Foreign Legion]

Not real happy at half time......from what I've heard on the radio. Lucky Seb Ross stuffed up there near the end of the quarter! Sheese!

We are better than this.....give them a rocket Horse.

Ross was literally 12 metres out on a slight angle, so lucky.

[stevoswan]

Only 28 tackles to half time.....disappointing and need to lift in this area.

[Blood Fever]

I think we're playing with intensity, but we keep kicking it to 3 on 1s in the forward half

St Kilda pressure very good. We've matched it. Need more input from Kennedy, Papley and others. They usually lift.

[Nico]

Really poor kicking into the forward line and some poor midfield disposal. At the end there Parker takes advantage and instead of kicking quickly and deep he handballs to JMc who was covered.

[Legs Akimbo]

I think we're playing with intensity, but we keep kicking it to 3 on 1s in the forward half

When they are like this you can see it in the lack of two way running. E.g. Amartey marked on half back and waited and waited for the link player to run past... just players wuth hands on hips jogging. Too many saints players running through the centre on the break. The signs are there imo including bombing it forward. To be fair, saints are playing tight and working hard, applying good pressure across the ground.

[SwanSand]

We are being beaten in the middle of the ground terribly. Need to take control and man up there. Not sure if the sun plays a part at times on that side of the ground. Amartey dropped an easy mark due to the sun shining in his eyes. But they are easily going through our midfield by very easy handballs. We need to be a bit more accountable in the midfield.

[Mel_C]

Not a pretty game. It's been a disappointing performance but maybe that's because of my expectations. The st kilda pressure has been good.

I've been pleased with Amartey especially around the ground.

We've had some quiet players so hopefully they can lift in the second half.

[Faunac8]

Reminiscent of last week not looking switched on in the first half and as happened last week I think our class will win out and we go on and win by 20 plus. Papley is a bit of a second half specialist so expecting a couple from him. Amartey showing good signs and hope he goes on with it and maybe picks up a goal as well. Lance maybe due a couple as well

[wolftone57]

These umpires are ******* disgusting. You can tell who the AFL want to win this one.

We are playing a zone which is allowing them to get players free. We need to play one on one. Our forward 50 entries are a disgrace. Just bombing in to free Saints players. Bloody look you idiots. There was one ball that went to Amartey surrounded by 4 Saints players. Three flew against him and one stayed down they got the ground ball. There wasn't even one Swans cumber there. Why? Why kick to a player way outnumbered in the first place. Our players are lazy today. Allowing them far too much room. Our tackling and pressure has been non existent

So frustrating. We are playing like a bottom side. Little or no pressure, terrible disposal, just bombing the ball to a contest coming out of defence and into the forward line. Our exit from defence has been terrible. On several occasions we had players free but Lloyd went long down the line or into the pocket. fu** me. We are not taking the game on at all. We are fumbling, handball ING to players who are immediately under pressure because we are not protecting the man. We are playing selfish footy. As long as my stats look good fu** everybody else. That's what it looks like.

There are a few problems. We are allowing Hill, who only managed 6 disposals last week, look like the best player in the AFL. Who the fu** is on him? Who the eff is on their half backs? Wicks has not touched the ball so far. Papley has had very little ball. Heeney wasn't sighted in that quarter. Hayward did not go near it in the last half of that quarter. We have too many players playing cameo roles. Not enough putting in full game effort.

Our mids are being beaten. The rucks are about even but we are being killed on the second touch. Our first touch is fumbly, unsure and useless which allows them to clean up. Theycare far cleaner than us. We are getting overlap but far too many disposals that don't hit their man or a fumble leading to a secondary possession where the player gets dispossessed. This is nervous footy. It's as though our blokes all have hangovers.

We need to be far cleaner in the second half. We need to play them one on one. Keep them accountable. We need to use the ball better. We need to tighten up on their half backs and mids. We need to have a far better plan coming out of the backline. Doing the same things every time is so predictable. What we did against sides that fill the corridor was to draw wide and then free up the middle of the ground. We are not even trying that. We need to do it fast.

If we don't wake up soon we will be beaten today. These guys are not that good. If we don't beat them we are a middling team.

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[Foreign Legion]

May be best not to schedule any more games at this time at the SCG - the sun is affecting a lot of players. Start 90 minutes later maybe.

[stevoswan]

Come on Swans! Kick straight Will.

[Blue Sun]

This umpiring.... laughable.

Can somebody please explain that last free kick to the Saints that resulted in a goal? McCartin had his arms and head belted when we was in front yet the free and advantage was paid to StKilda.

Genuinely confused.

[stevoswan]

These umpires are ******* disgusting. You can tell who the AFL want to win this one.

We are playing a zone which is allowing them to get players free. We need to play one on one. Our forward 50 entries are a disgrace. Just bombing in to free Saints players. Bloody look you idiots. There was one ball that went to Amartey surrounded by 4 Saints players. Three flew against him and one stayed down they got the ground ball. There wasn't even one Swans cumber there. Why? Why kick to a player way outnumbered in the first place. Our players are lazy today. Allowing them far too much room. Our tackling and pressure has been non existent

So frustrating. We are playing like a bottom side. Little or no pressure, terrible disposal, just bombing the ball to a contest coming out of defence and into the forward line. Our exit from defence has been terrible. On several occasions we had players free but Lloyd went long down the line or into the pocket. fu** me. We are not taking the game on at all. We are fumbling, handball ING to players who are immediately under pressure because we are not protecting the man. We are playing selfish footy. As long as my stats look good fu** everybody else. That's what it looks like.

There are a few problems. We are allowing Hill, who only managed 6 disposals last week, look like the best player in the AFL. Who the fu** is on him? Who the eff is on their half backs? Wicks has not touched the ball so far. Papley has had very little ball. Heeney wasn't sighted in that quarter. Hayward did not go near it in the last half of that quarter. We have too many players playing cameo roles. Not enough putting in full game effort.

Our mids are being beaten. The rucks are about even but we are being killed on the second touch. Our first touch is fumbly, unsure and useless which allows them to clean up. Theycare far cleaner than us. We are getting overlap but far too many disposals that don't hit their man or a fumble leading to a secondary possession where the player gets dispossessed. This is nervous footy. It's as though our blokes all have hangovers.

We need to be far cleaner in the second half. We need to play them one on one. Keep them accountable. We need to use the ball better. We need to tighten up on their half backs and mids. We need to have a far better plan coming out of the backline. Doing the same things every time is so predictable. What we did against sides that fill the corridor was to draw wide and then free up the middle of the ground. We are not even trying that. We need to do it fast.

If we don't wake up soon we will be beaten today. These guys are not that good. If we don't beat them we are a middling team.

Feel better now?:wink:

If we don't beat them, we are a middling team......today. As I said earlier, we are better than this.

[Legs Akimbo]

This umpiring.... laughable.

Pathetically biaised. But why?

[Mel_C]

We just can't put them away!!

[stevoswan]

Pathetically biaised. But why?

We recruited Buddy......have you not noticed we have never been the umpires friend since that day.

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Membrey is their most effective defender :confused: at the moment. Make him accountable.

[Foreign Legion]

2 goals from 50m penalties

[Blue Sun]

Alright I’m out, I can’t stand this umpiring anymore, it’s making my blood boil.

[stevoswan]

Umpires are a-holes. So ready to be soft on the Saints and another goal to them from a free and a fifty. Sickening.

[Mel_C]

We have to stop giving away these 50 metres. Two weeks in a row it's bringing the opposition into the game.

All the hard work and we can't put it on the scoreboard. Very frustrating.

[Foreign Legion]

Good goal Papley.

I would like to see Mills and Rowbottom get into it.

[Daisi]

Do you think we should just walk off and let St Kilda have the game, because obviously that's what the umpires are playing for...and let's not mention the commentators....

I don't know- that 'in the back' against Heeney? The last 50 metre, anybody know what that was for? Even the pro St Kilda commentators didn't know...

Ridiculous umpires...let's not support those other games in Sydney next weekend...let's just support the Swans and boycott the rest of the AFL....

[Faunac8]

Needed to capitalise on the forward pressure early in this quarter. Still confident but the umpires are making some bewildering decisions which aren’t helping.

[stevoswan]

I would like to see Mills and Rowbottom get into it.

......and The Chad.

[Blue Sun]

Parker!!! So reliable.

[longmile]

Parker!!! So reliable.

Great goal by Parker!!

Must be so draining when the opposition has such a blatant free kick advantage but the swans are doing well to keep pushing on. I'd say Saints have a 3 goal umpiring advantage atm.

Not entirely confident we can finish it off considering the wildly swinging nature of this game

[SwanSand]

Great goal by Parker!!

Must be so draining when the opposition has such a blatant free kick advantage but the swans are doing well to keep pushing on. I'd say Saints have a 3 goal umpiring advantage atm.

Not entirely confident we can finish it off considering the wildly swinging nature of this game

Forget about the umpiring we are being burned in the corridor. The way they are able to come into the corridor and cause easy entry into f50 is alarming. The only thing keeping us in is our very organised defence and their poor kicks inside f50.

[Foreign Legion]

Mills has lifted for sure.

[stevoswan]

16 pts up now......don't let up Swans....and umpires, keep the F out of this game.

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I've turned the ABC radio commentary off.....it's excruciating to listen to when you can't see what's going on......and that's got nothing to do with the standard of the actual commentary.

[Foreign Legion]

3rd 50m penalty for a goal - good job umps

[Legs Akimbo]

This is full on a stitch up.

[Blue Sun]

What is going on with these 50m penalties???? They are killing us. What was that one for? Come to think of it, what have they all been for?

I hate this sport sometimes. The Swans always cop the wrong end of it.

[longmile]

Forget about the umpiring we are being burned in the corridor. The way they are able to come into the corridor and cause easy entry into f50 is alarming. The only thing keeping us in is our very organised defence and their poor kicks inside f50.

Still feel that way?

[Daisi]

That's just a gift... That is ridiculous...that player just fell over...The umpires are just looking to give them the game...
,
Seriously, this makes me very angry- We Sydneysiders are paying for the AFL to come here and use our facilities, and those f...Victorians are just cheating... If they love Victoria so much they can just take themselves back to lockdowned Melbourne and leave ...

[Foreign Legion]

If they give St.Kilda 14 50m penalties they will be Premiers.

[Ralph Dawg]

Disgraceful performance by the umpires. At best they are incompetent, at worse biased

[Blue Sun]

Not a fan of the Saints after today. Diving, cheating, talentless dogs. Umpires love them too.

I am so frustrated I don’t know what to do. Why do we always get the short end of the stick? What is it about the Swans? Is it the red jumper? Is it some kind of inherent, unconscious bias?

[Mel_C]

I was going to blast the undisciplined play for giving away another 50 until I saw the replay. But still why would Rampe do that especially as he gave away one earlier in the game?

And then Wicks gives away a 50 and they take it down and kick a goal.

I'm yelling at the tv!!!!!!!

[Legs Akimbo]

Will Hayward decapitated and no free

[Daisi]

Yeah, I've just turned it off, I'm not going to watch this blatantly biased crap. I like to watch a contest, but I like to watch a FAIR contest. This isn't one...

[Legs Akimbo]

I was going to blast the undisciplined play for giving away another 50 until I saw the replay. But still why would Rampe do that especially as he gave away one earlier in the game?

And then Wicks gives away a 50 and they take it down and kick a goal.

I'm yelling at the tv!!!!!!!

Neither should have been paid 50m. In both cases they were run on the mill events.

[Ralph Dawg]

OMG holding the ball wtf!!!!

[Foreign Legion]

The ball was between Kings legs - holding the ball @@@@ me.

[Mel]

Jesus. The umpires are making this unwatchable.

[Mel_C]

@@@@ off umpires King had the ball between his legs how could McCartin get rid of it????????

[Blue Sun]

Another absolutely ridiculous free right in front of goal. That’s it. I’m out for real this time. Seeya RWO’ers!

[Ralph Dawg]

This is worse than 2016GF

[cruiser]

The umpires have made this game almost unwatchable.

[Ralph Dawg]

C'mon Isaac, bury the umpires. We have to beat them!

[Daisi]

The umpires have made this game almost unwatchable.

It is unwatchable...it's actually not a game...it's not a contest, it's a rigged reality TV show...

[Ralph Dawg]

Higgins will have nightmares about today

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Saints have the umpires in their pocket, we have Higgins

[longmile]

It is unwatchable...it's actually not a game...it's not a contest, it's a rigged reality TV show...

The fact we iced the game based on a free kick is poetic justice

@@@@ this stupid game

[stevoswan]

It is unwatchable...it's actually not a game...it's not a contest, it's a rigged reality TV show...

I have stopped listening and have been watching youtube. I see the umpires are still imposing their Victorian will on the game. Back to youtube?

[Mel_C]

Thank God that's over. I couldn't handle it. I need to wash my mouth out I was swearing too much!

[stevoswan]

Ever since my playing days I have hated umpires (they can be very biased in country footy) but what I witness in this joke of a league has NOT increased my appreciation of them......just 'F'ing cheats the lot of them. They turned a game we should have easily won into a close contest we could have lost. A-holes!

[Legs Akimbo]

Ok. Surprised we won that Amartey has got himself an extended run. The team ground it out. I think time for Wicks to rotate out. The umpiring was just pathetic. Even though we were down 2 frees at the end it, i think they owed the umps at least 4 goals. Without that and we would have won by 20 +. Oh, and we have jack higgins to thank too.

[Ludwig]

It really is so sad that the umpiring takes the pleasure out of the game. Why do they have to make it about them? So the game becomes not much more than winning or losing a coin toss. It's really not fair to the fans.

Umpiring aside, we didn't play well at all. We certainly don't look like a top 4 team.

These afternoon games in the sunshine at the SCG doesn't make for good viewing. Tough on the players.

[Daisi]

I'd like to thank everybody here for being patient with my temper tantrum...but honestly, the shocking umpiring in AFL ( it always seems to be against us) makes me sooooo crazy angry....

I've also had a pretty bad week in terms of work etc...so it's nice to let off some steam

Thanks again all

[Foreign Legion]

I would like to pump up the tires of 2 underated players....Cunningham and Hewett were fantastic IMHO.

Hewett hardly ever turns it over.

[Legs Akimbo]

I would like to pump up the tires of 2 underated players....Cunningham and Hewett were fantastic IMHO.

Hewett hardly ever turns it over.

He's settling into the backline. I like seeung3 Hewett with the ball in his hands. Feel confident.

[Faunac8]

I would like to pump up the tires of 2 underated players....Cunningham and Hewett were fantastic IMHO.

Hewett hardly ever turns it over.
Totally agree unsung hero’s for mine and deserving of recognition by supporters.

[Sandridge]

I'd like to thank everybody here for being patient with my temper tantrum...but honestly, the shocking umpiring in AFL ( it always seems to be against us) makes me sooooo crazy angry....

I've also had a pretty bad week in terms of work etc...so it's nice to let off some steam

Thanks again all

Happy to be your sounding board! :smile:

Go you magnificent little Cygnets!

[Matty10]

Thank God that's over. I couldn't handle it. I need to wash my mouth out I was swearing too much!

I was similar (although my swearing was tempered by having young kids in the house). There is something awful about watching games that you are expected to win. It is rarely satisfying.

[Hotpotato]

So relieved to win that . The Saints aren’t really too shabby apart from Higgins kicking ...

What doesn’t work for us : bombing into forward packs .
So why keep on doing it ..

Great to see Jimmy ice the game from a free .

[dejavoodoo44]

I would like to pump up the tires of 2 underated players....Cunningham and Hewett were fantastic IMHO.

Hewett hardly ever turns it over.
Cunningham has been very good lately. And he wasn't too bad, last year, when he came fifth in the Skilton Medal.

And speaking of last year, I sat through the final quarter of the last time we played the Saints, when they piled on a heap of late goals, to end up beating us 101-48. It's interesting how quickly things have changed: in that now, probably most of us fans, are a bit disappointed with only a 9 point win.

[707]

Just got in from work, about to watch the game on replay. Am I to assume there might be some soft/non frees to Saints during this game?

As a general comment, there are far too many soft frees paid across most games, some are double the total frees of other games and when you watch those you roll your eyes at some of the soft/non frees paid. Just let the game flow umpires, it's not about you!

[Ludwig]

I would like to pump up the tires of 2 underated players....Cunningham and Hewett were fantastic IMHO.

Hewett hardly ever turns it over.Totally agree. I wasn't too keen on Hewett playing defence, and I'm still not, but his last 2 games have been great. He should go back in the midfield. We have other defenders.

[dejavoodoo44]

It's probably a bit out of place, for the AFL site to use the term, 'missy' Higgins. If they did something similar to one of our players, I wouldn't be impressed.

Although, a part of me finds it pretty funny.

[Ludwig]

How do we let Higgens take 12 marks? The most he's had in any previous game was 6 and averaging around 3. Fox was on him at the start of the game. I don't recall if we switched in the 2nd half. This was probably the worst game Fox has played for a while. Kennedy with only 14 disposals; must be a career low or close to it.

[Legs Akimbo]

Just for a moment, let's consider the htb decision against mccartin. The bank was between King's legs. Now, for the last 4 weeks it has been almost impossible to be paid holding the ball. If the umpire saw the ball between king's legs, why did he pay it? If he didn't see the ball, why did he pay it? It was right in front of the goals. A mistake will cost the swans a goal. I just wish Longmire would raise it and take the fine.

[rojo]

No wonder Rampe was frustrated, giving away stupid, certain-goal free kicks. He should not have to play on the tallest forward. When we meet a team with three tall forwards rotating through their forward line and a good midfield we will be in real trouble.

So good that we won though. Did we deserve to? I think I will say - yes.

I do feel for Jack Higgins but his missed goals helped make up for the questionable umpiring decisions that led to the same number of goals that the Saints did kick.

[stevoswan]

Higgins will have nightmares about today


Saints have the umpires in their pocket, we have Higgins

Part of the AFL match report's headline......'missy' Higgins. I like it!

[stevoswan]

I'd like to thank everybody here for being patient with my temper tantrum...but honestly, the shocking umpiring in AFL ( it always seems to be against us) makes me sooooo crazy angry....

I've also had a pretty bad week in terms of work etc...so it's nice to let off some steam

Thanks again all

Vent on here anytime you like Daisi.....that's what RWO is for......mod's permitting.:rolleyes:

[Aaron]

For the record - the strange? biased? incapable ? brilliant ? umpires today : Curtis Deboy (11), Robert Findlay (23), Nathan Toner (38) !!!

[Maltopia]

Tough game, umps were trying their hardest to make us lose in the third and fourth. Neither of the 50 meter penalties were there, even channel 7 commentators said that, along with other soft frees. Glad we held on. We were under pressure a lot because of Ryder's strong leap in the ruck with Hickey not able to jump much, especially with Kennedy being very underwhelming in the first half. Possible BOG for both sides was Jack Higgins who kicked 1.6 to keep us in the game lol, and for St Kilda, kept taking i50 marks to keep them in the game too.

Almartey looked fumbly and didn't attach the ball early but flourished as the game went on, which is great for us. Hickey despite not jumping much was great too. Hayward was excellent. Cunningham was really good too I thought. Papley, Kennedy, and to an extent Heeney, Parker and Mills were not up to their usual standard, but can bounce back next match hopefully.

[Matty10]

Just for a moment, let's consider the htb decision against mccartin. The bank was between King's legs. Now, for the last 4 weeks it has been almost impossible to be paid holding the ball. If the umpire saw the ball between king's legs, why did he pay it? If he didn't see the ball, why did he pay it? It was right in front of the goals. A mistake will cost the swans a goal. I just wish Longmire would raise it and take the fine.

When a player is on the ground and elects to drag the ball in (which in this case was probably just taking possession), rather than knocking it on, it becomes his responsibility to clear the ball. McCartin didn’t clear the ball, so a free kick was paid.

It looked weird because King was sitting on it at the end, but the AFL doesn’t want players who are already on the ground trying to take possession of the ball as it rarely gets out. If the roles were reversed I would expect the Swans to receive the free kick - and would be screaming out if it was not paid (but perhaps this might be called one-eyed). I was nervous when McCartin picked it up.

The point of contention more than anything is whether McCartin’s action of taking possession is equivalent to dragging it back in.

[stevoswan]

Just got in from work, about to watch the game on replay. Am I to assume there might be some soft/non frees to Saints during this game?

As a general comment, there are far too many soft frees paid across most games, some are double the total frees of other games and when you watch those you roll your eyes at some of the soft/non frees paid. Just let the game flow umpires, it's not about you!

About 4 goals worth.:tongue:

[Matty10]

This was probably the worst game Fox has played for a while.

I am a fan of Fox but thought he was a bit off today. I wondered if his hand was bothering him. There was also a lot of finger pointing in the back line today. We didn’t seem to gel as well for some reason.

It also seemed like the whole team fumbled a bit today. Throw that bag of footballs out, I reckon.

[Nico]

Just for a moment, let's consider the htb decision against mccartin. The bank was between King's legs. Now, for the last 4 weeks it has been almost impossible to be paid holding the ball. If the umpire saw the ball between king's legs, why did he pay it? If he didn't see the ball, why did he pay it? It was right in front of the goals. A mistake will cost the swans a goal. I just wish Longmire would raise it and take the fine.

He paid it because McCartin dragged the ball back in. Strange that he blew the whistle when ball was between King's legs.

[Markwebbos]

Didn’t see the whole game but thought Amartey keeps his spot. Was a great 2nd game.

[TheBloods]

I better sit this one out !

[Roadrunner]

How do we let Higgens take 12 marks? The most he's had in any previous game was 6 and averaging around 3. Fox was on him at the start of the game. I don't recall if we switched in the 2nd half. This was probably the worst game Fox has played for a while. Kennedy with only 14 disposals; must be a career low or close to it.

I thought Fox was poor today. I don’t understand why he was preferred to Brandt, who played ok last week and who should have played on King. As good as Ramps is, he shouldn’t be expected to play on guys giving away so much height. As for Joey, he comes good late in the game when opponents are tired. A bit sad, really. Amartey improved during the game and should retain his spot, as should Logan, but Wiks didn’t do enough today. Overall, we were a little flat and we are not strong enough in the air to keep bombing into our forward zone. Happy with the win but not a game that was satisfying. Hope we improve next week!

[Nico]

What kept St Kilda in the game was our 6 misses close in from set shots. Higgins missed up the other end but we were poor kicking for goal. Papley 2, Amartey 1, Hayward 2, Heeney 1. Heeney picked out his mum in the crowd on the opposite wing.

[i'm-uninformed2]

An average game featuring bad goal kicking by both sides. I know the spotlight is on Higgins but boy we missed some too.

Parker, the Hick and Mills very good in the middle. Thought McCartin had a nice game after last week’s difficulty. And a player going through what King is going through does not need a Rampe smother speciality all day. Oh, and that Buddy guy can play a bit.

Gee Amarty got better and better. Some of his marking in the last quarter was terrific, and he showed good hands in the ruck.

One watch is a few of the young guys look a bit tired. Wicks and Warner, and to a degree Rowbottom, lacked their usual pep. The bye will come at a good time for them, and it’ll then be a watch as to whether they need another week off at some point between then and end of year.

[Ralph Dawg]

Glass half empty says we only just beat a very mediocre side.

Glass half full says we hung tough and won, despite a few of our usuals having average days out and being on the wrong side of the umpires.

I'll take the 2nd option.

[Matty10]

I don’t quite understand how we are playing the Hawks next week (on a 6 day break) when they are coming off a bye this week.

Surely it is pretty easy to manage a draw that ensures any team coming off a bye only plays another team in the same situation.

Our players are looking pretty flat and might be crawling to the bye after today’s slog, while the Hawks will presumably be refreshed.

[Aaron]

One watch is a few of the young guys look a bit tired. Wicks and Warner, and to a degree Rowbottom, lacked their usual pep. The bye will come at a good time for them, and it’ll then be a watch as to whether they need another week off at some point between then and end of year.

Agree. But it will be after successive 6 days breaks for us and the Hawks will be returning after their bye (while staying in Sydney)

[Agent 86]

Just for a moment, let's consider the htb decision against mccartin. The bank was between King's legs. Now, for the last 4 weeks it has been almost impossible to be paid holding the ball. If the umpire saw the ball between king's legs, why did he pay it? If he didn't see the ball, why did he pay it? It was right in front of the goals. A mistake will cost the swans a goal. I just wish Longmire would raise it and take the fine.

All they see was the player dragging the ball in - what transpires after that doesn’t seem to matter. Hard to fathom how the ump could not see King sitting on the ball as it was right in front of him.

Basically, if you’re on the ground and drag it in - you’re gone. It’s dumb, and the umps don’t seem to be clever enough to use common sense.

Another pet hate is when tacklers drag the back towards the tackled player when it comes loose. Umpires fall for that every time. I’d like to see a rule change to stop this happening.

[rickmat]

Phew, we fell over the line. But these type of wins are needed from time to time. Our backline was a bit loose and too many times, 2,3 or 4 flew for the mark instead of staying down and crumbling or punching the ball. One of my bugbares about Dawson is that he delays in playing on or goes sideways too often, seems like he still lacks confidence. With a kick like his, he should not delay as he is so accurate and long in his kicks. It's obvious some of youngsters are still learning the game but it will come. I'm glad Amartey grabbed his chance with both hands. Just shows patience pays. Unlike some on this site, I'm not high on Fox, he is a squad player , not in the 18. My opinion for what's it worth. Need a solid win over the Hawks next week to regain our confidence.

[Kafka's Ghost]

I'd like to thank everybody here for being patient with my temper tantrum...but honestly, the shocking umpiring in AFL ( it always seems to be against us) makes me sooooo crazy angry....

I've also had a pretty bad week in terms of work etc...so it's nice to let off some steam

Thanks again all

You’re right, Daisi, no problem about the occasional rant. I was at the game (armed with earplugs and headphones, but the didgeridoo is ok) and quite a few epithets had to be contained. The umpiring was exceptionally poor today. Enjoyed the irony of icing the game from a free, though. As obvious a free kick as it was, for a few seconds I thought it wasn’t going to be paid.
We looked the better team all day, and should have won by about 4 goals. Heeney’s shot from 20m out is the shank of the year, even outdoing Aaron Naughton’s effort.

[mcs]

Glass half empty says we only just beat a very mediocre side.

Glass half full says we hung tough and won, despite a few of our usuals having average days out and being on the wrong side of the umpires.

I'll take the 2nd option.

We were far from our best today, but we seem to be learning to win games when we are far from our best - a very important trait teams need to learn and develop over time. So on that basis, I'm happy we got a win today.

[crackedactor 01]

Glass half empty says we only just beat a very mediocre side.

Glass half full says we hung tough and won, despite a few of our usuals having average days out and being on the wrong side of the umpires.

I'll take the 2nd option.

I am tired of getting the worse of the umpiring. Those 50m penalties for a gentle push were ridiculous. Then watch about Paddy Ryder stopping RB running for the ball by holding him on the wing 3rd quarter. How could the umpires not see that? I was amazed RB was given that free kick in the last minute, even though it was blatant.

[The Runner]

Parker is a competitive bull. But his ball use absolutely kills us. He even kicked backwards from a clearance in the final minutes which set up a scoring shot for them. He just bombs it when he gets it - compared to Warner who kicks long, and Florent who hits leading targets, it's really standing out this year.

And how on earth do we allow Jack Higgins to get 20+ and 7 scoring shots? It was hard to tell who his opponent was. But our small defenders have to be held to account for that - he kicks straight and we lose.

[Nico]

I am tired of getting the worse of the umpiring. Those 50m penalties for a gentle push were ridiculous. Then watch about Paddy Ryder stopping RB running for the ball by holding him on the wing 3rd quarter. How could the umpires not see that? I was amazed RB was given that free kick in the last minute, even though it was blatant.

Wicks was not in the contest and it doesn't matter if it is a "gentle Push". A push is a push and it was a dumb as dog doings thing to do.

[Captain]

Umpiring was ordinary but not to the point people are going on about here. We have had far worse in the past.

Thought it was a lucky win and one we will take every day of the week. We looked flat and tired.

Liked having Logan back in the team. Amartey showed a bit too and should only get better.

[dejavoodoo44]

Wicks was not in the contest and it doesn't matter if it is a "gentle Push". A push is a push and it was a dumb as dog doings thing to do.
I've only watched the highlights, rather than the game, so I've only seen the Rampe 50m. From what I saw, King should cop a fine for staging, as he went down as if he copped a Barry Hall fist to the jaw, instead of a Dane Rampe open palm to the shoulder.

[i'm-uninformed2]

The umpiring was poor. The Rampe-King one a classic example.

Unfortunately the McCartin one was there every day of the week. If you’re on the ground and pull it in, you have to get it out. Doesn’t matter that it ended up under King. It might be a stupid rule, but it’s the rule. And I instinctively agree with it in the interests of keeping the ball moving.

You just wish they paid incorrect disposal as often and on the same basis of the principle is clear.

[giant]

Really pretty horrid win - thought we played much better vs Dockers for a loss. Bye can't come fast enough I suspect.

Joel a very big bonus on an otherwise fairly ordinary day. He does need to learn how to handball though.

- - - Updated - - -


What kept St Kilda in the game was our 6 misses close in from set shots. Higgins missed up the other end but we were poor kicking for goal. Papley 2, Amartey 1, Hayward 2, Heeney 1. Heeney picked out his mum in the crowd on the opposite wing.

Isaac needs to sort his kicking out, because if he kicks like that to win us the GF there will be a riot. I actually think he's a pretty solid set shot kick so don't understand where this left foot screw kick nonsense has come from.

[Bangalore Swans]

Ever since my playing days I have hated umpires (they can be very biased in country footy) but what I witness in this joke of a league has NOT increased my appreciation of them......just 'F'ing cheats the lot of them. They turned a game we should have easily won into a close contest we could have lost. A-holes!

My son expressed an interest in doing some umpiring. I advised him not to it because there is no appreciation for what umpires do and they have to cop the umpire bashing that occurs in this post.

Maybe if people were kinder to umpires at all levels of the game, then more kids would put their hands up to umpire. This would lead to more umpiring numbers and a bigger talent pool would lead to better umpires getting the opportunities to umpire important games.

This would most probably lead to better umpires at the top level.

But no, you and others have to engage in umpire bashing at every level of the game and any sensible person is not going to sign up for a job where they cop this level of abuse.

Stevo, you and others need to accept accountability that the level of umpiring is not as good as it could be because you and others constantly abuse them at all levels of the game.

[Velour&Ruffles]

When a player is on the ground and elects to drag the ball in (which in this case was probably just taking possession), rather than knocking it on, it becomes his responsibility to clear the ball. McCartin didn’t clear the ball, so a free kick was paid.

It looked weird because King was sitting on it at the end, but the AFL doesn’t want players who are already on the ground trying to take possession of the ball as it rarely gets out. If the roles were reversed I would expect the Swans to receive the free kick - and would be screaming out if it was not paid (but perhaps this might be called one-eyed). I was nervous when McCartin picked it up.

The point of contention more than anything is whether McCartin’s action of taking possession is equivalent to dragging it back in.

Sorry but if that's the reason for the free then that is ludicrous. Surely, to be penalised for insufficient attempt to dispose of the pill, one must first have possession of the pill. McCartin did not have possession of said pill - it was nestled between King's legs.

I would actually rather believe that the umpire had a complete brain fart or was cheating (because let's face it, he had a perfect view) than that the decision was correct. If that decision was correct then I am officially never watching football again.

[Velour&Ruffles]

He paid it because McCartin dragged the ball back in. Strange that he blew the whistle when ball was between King's legs.

Sorry, but that isn't an answer either. whether or not McCartin pulled it in, in the scrum the ball ended up between King's legs. The umpire watched and watched and watched while King was literally sitting on the ball as if laying an egg, and McCartin WASN'T EVEN TOUCHING THE BALL with any part of his body, it get's paid as a free against McCartin for incorrect disposal. I feel as if we've reached peak stupid if there can be a serious discussion about whether this free was correct. McCartin WASN'T EVEN TOUCHING THE BALL.

[mcs]

My son expressed an interest in doing some umpiring. I advised him not to it because there is no appreciation for what umpires do and they have to cop the umpire bashing that occurs in this post.

Maybe if people were kinder to umpires at all levels of the game, then more kids would put their hands up to umpire. This would lead to more umpiring numbers and a bigger talent pool would lead to better umpires getting the opportunities to umpire important games.

This would most probably lead to better umpires at the top level.

But no, you and others have to engage in umpire bashing at every level of the game and any sensible person is not going to sign up for a job where they cop this level of abuse.

Stevo, you and others need to accept accountability that the level of umpiring is not as good as it could be because you and others constantly abuse them at all levels of the game.

:rofl: mamma mia, here we go again....

[Blood Fever]

Really pretty horrid win - thought we played much better vs Dockers for a loss. Bye can't come fast enough I suspect.

Joel a very big bonus on an otherwise fairly ordinary day. He does need to learn how to handball though.

- - - Updated - - -



Isaac needs to sort his kicking out, because if he kicks like that to win us the GF there will be a riot. I actually think he's a pretty solid set shot kick so don't understand where this left foot screw kick nonsense has come from.

His left foot was fine today but he misses too many set shots on his right. Chink in his armour at the moment but can be rectified.

[Bangalore Swans]

Really liked Cunningham’s game. Really solid and did everything right. Same with Dawson.

Amartey really provided a strong target, had physical presence and took some great contested marks.

J-Mac made some great late contributions. Good kick inboard and strong mark on the wing.

Franklin is playing so well. That pass in the last quarter to Heeney was outstanding.

Good win, 4 points.

[Blood Fever]

Sorry but if that's the reason for the free then that is ludicrous. Surely, to be penalised for insufficient attempt to dispose of the pill, one must first have possession of the pill. McCartin did not have possession of said pill - it was nestled between King's legs.

I would actually rather believe that the umpire had a complete brain fart or was cheating (because let's face it, he had a perfect view) than that the decision was correct. If that decision was correct then I am officially never watching football again.

Sadly, I think the decision was correct as to how the umpires are instructed. Hope this gives you an out V&F, because you have made a very big call.

[Legs Akimbo]

When a player is on the ground and elects to drag the ball in (which in this case was probably just taking possession), rather than knocking it on, it becomes his responsibility to clear the ball. McCartin didn’t clear the ball, so a free kick was paid.

It looked weird because King was sitting on it at the end, but the AFL doesn’t want players who are already on the ground trying to take possession of the ball as it rarely gets out. If the roles were reversed I would expect the Swans to receive the free kick - and would be screaming out if it was not paid (but perhaps this might be called one-eyed). I was nervous when McCartin picked it up.

The point of contention more than anything is whether McCartin’s action of taking possession is equivalent to dragging it back in.


The umpiring was poor. The Rampe-King one a classic example.

Unfortunately the McCartin one was there every day of the week. If you’re on the ground and pull it in, you have to get it out. Doesn’t matter that it ended up under King. It might be a stupid rule, but it’s the rule. And I instinctively agree with it in the interests of keeping the ball moving.

You just wish they paid incorrect disposal as often and on the same basis of the principle is clear.

Actually...no

18.6.5 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: Diving on Top of the Football A field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against a Player who dives on top of or drags the football underneath their body and fails to immediately knock clear or Correctly Dispose of the football when Legally Tackled.

The incident is at the 9:10 mark of the final quarter. Watch it again.. McCartin drags the ball in, immediately handpasses it. The ball ricochets off opponents hand before becoming jammed under King. It is not a free kick.

BangaloreSwan, it is indeed a tough job being an umpire. Note, my issue is with the umpiring not umpires. They have to be accountable the same as we all do. The quality, IMO, is objectively poor. It is frustrating for club supporters and undermines the credibility of the code. I think the players are just bewildered. This season has been excruciating for some reason. The overall standard is down this warrants consideration. It's a big turnoff for the game.

Btw, I watched the last quarter 50s again. So soft. Both stkilda players dived / flopped.

[SwanSand]

The midfield looks tired and next weeks game is a danger game.
Florent, Warner, Rowbottom no where to be seen despite having lower game time. RB played only 64% game time and is certainly carrying an injury by the looks. Warner is making too many mistakes. Jmac did enough with his pressure - he is the lucky one as he is the only one who has been rested. Florent should be stepping up but he seems to disappear at times.

It was hard to watch on all fronts - poor umpiring, poor positioning by our players, easy corridor run for Saints, skill errors galore.

By the way if AFL is serious about integrity of the game, Max king should be charged for staging when he went down and milked a penalty.

[Matty10]

The incident is at the 9:10 mark of the final quarter. Watch it again.. McCartin drags the ball in, immediately handpasses it. The ball ricochets off opponents hand before becoming jammed under King. It is not a free kick.

You might want to take another look. After the ball is dragged in, McCartin tries to handpass but never gets his right fist to the ball (his right arm is being tackled by King), which is then knocked out of his left hand by either the other Saints player on his left or the extended tackling arms of King (and then comes to rest between King’s legs). Based on the definition you supplied, it seems to be the right call.

[MattW]

I was certain all game that we'd lose. If Higgins wasn't struck be the yips we would have. So feeling relieved!

Good players:
- Hickey: loved those two contested marks in defence. Got through the game without aggravating that knee. Led clearances again. Love that dude.
- Lloyd, Cunningham: thrust us out of defence
- Mills: our best mid
- Buddy: decisive touches of class forward
- Amartey: way more mobile than McLean and clunked them very well. Get Plugger up from Bowral.

Not Parker's best day, but clutch goal.

Thought Hayward did his job again.

- - - Updated - - -


You might want to take another look. After the ball is dragged in, McCartin tries to handpass but never gets his right fist to the ball (his right arm is being tackled by King), which is then knocked out of his left hand by either the other Saints player on his left or the extended tackling arms of King (and then comes to rest between King’s legs). Based on the definition you supplied, it seems to be the right call.

Agreed. It was a free. Not Tom's best day, but tried hard and it's all learning innit.

[stevoswan]

My son expressed an interest in doing some umpiring. I advised him not to it because there is no appreciation for what umpires do and they have to cop the umpire bashing that occurs in this post.

Maybe if people were kinder to umpires at all levels of the game, then more kids would put their hands up to umpire. This would lead to more umpiring numbers and a bigger talent pool would lead to better umpires getting the opportunities to umpire important games.

This would most probably lead to better umpires at the top level.

But no, you and others have to engage in umpire bashing at every level of the game and any sensible person is not going to sign up for a job where they cop this level of abuse.

Stevo, you and others need to accept accountability that the level of umpiring is not as good as it could be because you and others constantly abuse them at all levels of the game.

Yeah....whatever. :rofl :rofl Must be wonderful in that rarefied air of yours. I hated umpires but I didn't give them hell like the bogans of today.....just spirited banter....and I will verbally bash umpires (on a forum....as if that effects them) whenever they deserve it and today they did.

I'd encourage your son to have a go, not discourage him with your own fear.....he may have more character than you give him credit for.

[Legs Akimbo]

When a player is on the ground and elects to drag the ball in (which in this case was probably just taking possession), rather than knocking it on, it becomes his responsibility to clear the ball. McCartin didn’t clear the ball, so a free kick was paid.

It looked weird because King was sitting on it at the end, but the AFL doesn’t want players who are already on the ground trying to take possession of the ball as it rarely gets out. If the roles were reversed I would expect the Swans to receive the free kick - and would be screaming out if it was not paid (but perhaps this might be called one-eyed). I was nervous when McCartin picked it up.

The point of contention more than anything is whether McCartin’s action of taking possession is equivalent to dragging it back in.


You might want to take another look. After the ball is dragged in, McCartin tries to handpass but never gets his right fist to the ball (his right arm is being tackled by King), which is then knocked out of his left hand by either the other Saints player on his left or the extended tackling arms of King (and then comes to rest between King’s legs). Based on the definition you supplied, it seems to be the right call.

Just for the record i completely disagree with that description. We disagree, that's fine, I'm moving on.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

If Higgins wasn't struck be the yips we would have. So feeling relieved!
On the other hand if the Swans hadn't been so wasteful in the first quarter, we probably would not have needed Jack Higgins' extraordinary efforts.

Is anyone else as worried about JPK as I am?

[Velour&Ruffles]

You might want to take another look. After the ball is dragged in, McCartin tries to handpass but never gets his right fist to the ball (his right arm is being tackled by King), which is then knocked out of his left hand by either the other Saints player on his left or the extended tackling arms of King (and then comes to rest between King’s legs). Based on the definition you supplied, it seems to be the right call.

That would almost make sense if the umpire immediately paid the free kick .... but he didn't. He watched King sitting on top of the ball like a Mother Hen for 5 minutes, then paid it.
And let's say for the sake of argument that the ball had lodged between Kings arms somehow rather than his legs - on the basis you've described it would still be a free against mcCartin even though King was actually the one holding it.
I maintain my view that we've officially entered Bizarro World.

[barry]

My son expressed an interest in doing some umpiring. I advised him not to it because there is no appreciation for what umpires do and they have to cop the umpire bashing that occurs in this post.

That story is obviously made up, but to any other dad's out there whose children are thinking of getting into umpiring, go for it. It builds character and resilience.

[Wardy]

For the record - the strange? biased? incapable ? brilliant ? umpires today : Curtis Deboy (11), Robert Findlay (23), Nathan Toner (38) !!!
So we got the work experience kids - again!!!

[Wardy]

Really pretty horrid win - thought we played much better vs Dockers for a loss. Bye can't come fast enough I suspect.

Joel a very big bonus on an otherwise fairly ordinary day. He does need to learn how to handball though.

- - - Updated - - -



Isaac needs to sort his kicking out, because if he kicks like that to win us the GF there will be a riot. I actually think he's a pretty solid set shot kick so don't understand where this left foot screw kick nonsense has come from.
I think he took way too much notice of Stevie J - that’s was his “thing” and for some reason a few of our lads have taken to doing this sideways samba style of kick too.

[Swanny40519]

So we got the work experience kids - again!!!

I watched the game again last night and if those umpires - particularly No 11, ever umpire a AFL again then Gill is really scrapping the bottom of the barrel. They were so one sided and biased in their decisions, particularly those very soft 50m goals the saints got.

[Nico]

What kept St Kilda in the game was our 6 misses close in from set shots. Higgins missed up the other end but we were poor kicking for goal. Papley 2, Amartey 1, Hayward 2, Heeney 1. Heeney picked out his mum in the crowd on the opposite wing.

Update on that: Heeney missed 2 set shots. Gary Lyon was harping on about STKilda's poor kicking for goal, if we had kicked straight we win that by a street. A really bad part of our game was the centre clearances: 9 to 17 opened up our defence big time. It seemed for what ever reason our mids stood defensive side and Ryder kept hitting it the opposite side. Our blokes just stood there like garden gnomes.

[The Great One]

I am tired of getting the worse of the umpiring. Those 50m penalties for a gentle push were ridiculous. Then watch about Paddy Ryder stopping RB running for the ball by holding him on the wing 3rd quarter. How could the umpires not see that? I was amazed RB was given that free kick in the last minute, even though it was blatant.

As I said in a post a few months ago, I have serious doubts whether the AFL will allow us to win a competition whilever Buddy is in our squad. I am sure they wanted him to go to GWS and since then we have been on the receiving end of many suspect decisions.

Buddy should win a lot more free kicks than he does particularly when he is double and triple teamed in the forward 50

As others have said there is a bias towards Melbourne based teams that is blatantly obvious. Unless my memory is failing me I seem to recall the last all interstate gf was 2005 and 2006. When we qualified for the 2016 gf there was no way gws were going to win and the fairy puppies were born and parachuted to a premiership on the back of huge free kick counts in 4 finals.

The surprise as others have said was the free kick paid to Rowbottom that sealed the win. It was obvious but so was the one earlier on the left wing when he was tackled before he had it.

[Aaron]

So we got the work experience kids - again!!!
2 are relatively experienced.
Shirt #(Games this Season /Career) Statistics before R12
#11 (10/119)
#23 (11/265)
#38 (1/1)

[Ralph Dawg]

Whoever was predominately on Higgins needs to be dropped (was it Fox?). 7 shots on goal, 12 marks. He basically did as he pleased, as if he was playing unmarked.

Our defence is looking quite shakey, with a lack of cohesion. Horse said as much, making the comment in his pressers that they scored too many easy goals. Dropping off tackles is not helping. As good as JMac has been in attack, he gets swatted off too easily. Send him over to Trent Robinson and the Roosters for a refresher.

I also agree our midfield looks a bit knackered and I think the bye can't come quick enough. If not for Hickey being a one man midfield, we would've been slaughtered inside. He's just been incredible this year, even playing with one leg. If I was the coaching staff, I would just give the players a week off after the Hawks game.

[TheBloods]

Is anyone else as worried about JPK as I am?

WTF??

Has it occurred to you that Kennedy might be taking a back seat to give some of the younger mids around him a go ? He is selfless and the heart and soul leader of this club he would understand his job now is to pass the baton to the next generation. Not his fault they didnt take it , not one young mid had over 15 touches yesterday !

[Ralph Dawg]

That story is obviously made up, but to any other dad's out there whose children are thinking of getting into umpiring, go for it. It builds character and resilience.
My son is itching to umpire, which he can do next year. He's convinced they're all hopeless and he can do a much better job. I'm happy for him to do it as I think it will be a very humbling experience for him............

[Blood Fever]

Update on that: Heeney missed 2 set shots. Gary Lyon was harping on about STKilda's poor kicking for goal, if we had kicked straight we win that by a street. A really bad part of our game was the centre clearances: 9 to 17 opened up our defence big time. It seemed for what ever reason our mids stood defensive side and Ryder kept hitting it the opposite side. Our blokes just stood there like garden gnomes.

Spot on. We have been a lot better at this so far this year. With our forward line, even just halving centre clearances would have resulted in some more(easier) shots on goal. Hope this game was a one off in this area and we don't revert to how we've performed in the last few years. Hats off to our defence for limiting the damage. Also, probably explains why Ryder is so highly rated.

[The Great One]

Just a thought.

For a while I have considered what combination of umpires would be the worst the Swans could have in charge of a game. I came up with.
Stevic
Razor Ray
Mollison

But after yesterday I think we can add 11 Curtis Deboy to the list.

[Nico]

My son is itching to umpire, which he can do next year. He's convinced they're all hopeless and he can do a much better job. I'm happy for him to do it as I think it will be a very humbling experience for him............

Then he won't say they are all hopeless and realise what a difficult task it is. What he will quickly pick up is that players whinge about every decision.

[Nico]

Whoever was predominately on Higgins needs to be dropped (was it Fox?). 7 shots on goal, 12 marks. He basically did as he pleased, as if he was playing unmarked.

Our defence is looking quite shakey, with a lack of cohesion. Horse said as much, making the comment in his pressers that they scored too many easy goals. Dropping off tackles is not helping. As good as JMac has been in attack, he gets swatted off too easily. Send him over to Trent Robinson and the Roosters for a refresher.

I also agree our midfield looks a bit knackered and I think the bye can't come quick enough. If not for Hickey being a one man midfield, we would've been slaughtered inside. He's just been incredible this year, even playing with one leg. If I was the coaching staff, I would just give the players a week off after the Hawks game.

You can't give an AFL team a week off as they quickly lose the fitness edge. Besides, all AFL clubs are living in their own bubble right now.

[dejavoodoo44]

Just a thought.

For a while I have considered what combination of umpires would be the worst the Swans could have in charge of a game. I came up with.
Stevic
Razor Ray
Mollison

But after yesterday I think we can add 11 Curtis Deboy to the list.
Stevic, Matthew Nicholls and for a special encore appearance, Scott McLaren.

[Aaron]

I think Razor has changed a little after his last injury and has been a little more consistent.

[NeonBible]

I am a dope!! I commented my thoughts on this game in the trade thread heh..

This match there might've been a case of too much left to too few, and we were lucky it didn't cost us! Hard to tell watching on TV but it appeared like Stk had a better spread of contributors and a very even team performance.. they just couldn't contain us when we were at our best!!

Parker and Mills were magnificent in the midfield as usual, but they didnt seem to get much support.. Joey was unusually quiet, and we didnt get enough out of Rowbottom, Florent, McInerney or Warner, who had 15, 15, 13 and 12 possessions respectively! That is not quite good enough from a second tier midfield group!! Stephens and Blakey were influential in the VFL game, so i would think about dropping one of Rowbottom or Warner as neither have been contributing much over the last month. Perhaps Blakey in the mids for Rowbottom, Stephens on a HFF for Warner, or maybe Wicks, who has also been quiet?? Interesting dilemma!!

[SwanSand]

I am a dope!! I commented my thoughts on this game in the trade thread heh..

This match there might've been a case of too much left to too few, and we were lucky it didn't cost us! Hard to tell watching on TV but it appeared like Stk had a better spread of contributors and a very even team performance.. they just couldn't contain us when we were at our best!!

Parker and Mills were magnificent in the midfield as usual, but they didnt seem to get much support.. Joey was unusually quiet, and we didnt get enough out of Rowbottom, Florent, McInerney or Warner, who had 15, 15, 13 and 12 possessions respectively! That is not quite good enough from a second tier midfield group!! Stephens and Blakey were influential in the VFL game, so i would think about dropping one of Rowbottom or Warner as neither have been contributing much over the last month. Perhaps Blakey in the mids for Rowbottom, Stephens on a HFF for Warner, or maybe Wicks, who has also been quiet?? Interesting dilemma!!

Not sure what Warner is doing at the moment. Low possessions which is fine but does not it use as well as we would want, Too fumbly and does not pressure the opposition as much as needed. Rowbottom appears injured, played 64% time on ground but atleast ran and pressured the opposition but again had some poor disposals. Wicks is our pressure forward and it would not be easy to drop him unless Gulden comes back. I don’t think either Stephens Bell or Blakey can do what Wicks does. Jmac I thought had an ok game. Without being super he was pressuring the opposition well. He needs to get better at reading the game a bit better and that would improve his positioning.

My biggest concern is Florent. He should be our next line midfielder and he just has a good game every 3rd one which is not good enough.

I think the marking by saints in our defensive half was the ease with which the ball was coming through the corridor with too many possible angles to contain. And the onus to block that was with the midfielders. In offence we were running further than usual and on turnovers we had no reference to the saint player and it was a very easy overlap play for them.

We also played Heeney in defensive half and I wonder if we get a good running wingman, we should leave him to play only a forward half game. He is an extremely good kick and Mark to cause front half headaches for the opposition.

[Ralph Dawg]

You can't give an AFL team a week off as they quickly lose the fitness edge. Besides, all AFL clubs are living in their own bubble right now.
Reduced load then? They just look a bit jaded, especially when compared to how they were at the start of the season. I'm sure there is a sweet spot in terms of maintaining fitness and recuperating from the first half of the season.

[NeonBible]

Not sure what Warner is doing at the moment. Low possessions which is fine but does not it use as well as we would want, Too fumbly and does not pressure the opposition as much as needed. Rowbottom appears injured, played 64% time on ground but atleast ran and pressured the opposition but again had some poor disposals. Wicks is our pressure forward and it would not be easy to drop him unless Gulden comes back. I don’t think either Stephens Bell or Blakey can do what Wicks does. Jmac I thought had an ok game. Without being super he was pressuring the opposition well. He needs to get better at reading the game a bit better and that would improve his positioning.

My biggest concern is Florent. He should be our next line midfielder and he just has a good game every 3rd one which is not good enough.

I think the marking by saints in our defensive half was the ease with which the ball was coming through the corridor with too many possible angles to contain. And the onus to block that was with the midfielders. In offence we were running further than usual and on turnovers we had no reference to the saint player and it was a very easy overlap play for them.

We also played Heeney in defensive half and I wonder if we get a good running wingman, we should leave him to play only a forward half game. He is an extremely good kick and Mark to cause front half headaches for the opposition.

Interesting thoughts, SwanSand. I've been happy with Florents progress this year, but you are onto something that the consistency isn't there just yet. He's a quality young player but i think it is safe to say he will never be a dominant midfielder, more of a silky compliment to the guys above him!! When you think about him from that perspective, Ollie not tearing games apart isnt so concerning!

I dont expect Rowbottom and Warner to be doing that either yet, but we do need more from them. Warner has faded as the year has gone on. He's a very exciting talent and you never know when he will do something brilliant that will turn the game on it's head in our favour! He's that kind of player! But when he's not doing those things, he tends to fade to the background!! Hard to know if to take the chance of resting him and then missing out on one of those Chad moments when we need it!!

Rowbottom an even harder one to get a read on! It's possible he's injured! 64% time on ground is very low, as i noted he was wearing the fluro green cap at training. Could be for the knee injury from earlier in the year, or the adductor strain he sustained during the Carlton match and played through. Or something else entirely that we don't know about!! But there have been times he's certainly looked capable enough physically - that fend-off to burst away and hit Lance on the lead yesterday was thrilling to watch, and he's had other moments where he has seemed unaffected! So i'm not certain he can play the injury card to excuse the passages where he doesn't have a positive impact, or an impact at all!

[goodie3shoes]

The Saints apparently won yesterday. The media only sighted Saints and their errors. Not a Swan played. Even the Mongrelpunt only mentions Sainters. We Swans just looked pretty and allowed Sainters to fall over their own feet. Ok, I get the media sucks up to the Victorian crowd but we are in the top six with some pretty impressive performances. So looks like the footy shows will have another Swan free week. Oh, Bud might get a short mention.

[caj23]

We snuck home again, I get the feeling we're staggering into the bye. Hopefully we can comfortably clean up the Hawks next week (although I've thought that the last 2 weeks!) and rest up with the week off.

Not sure who was playing on Higgins and Hill, but boy we let them off the leasch this week. I thought Hewitt could've been a candidate for Hill, i think his best work is as a mid or tagger rather than defence anyway. Also think Brand should've been retained. McCartin is getting beaten week in week out, Rampe simply isn't big enough, neither is Fox who had an ordinary day out.

How good was Amartey in the second half? Him and McClean have real competition for that spot, although Amartey has the added advantage of relief rucking

[Bangalore Swans]

Yeah....whatever. :rofl :rofl Must be wonderful in that rarefied air of yours. I hated umpires but I didn't give them hell like the bogans of today.....just spirited banter....and I will verbally bash umpires (on a forum....as if that effects them) whenever they deserve it and today they did.

I'd encourage your son to have a go, not discourage him with your own fear.....he may have more character than you give him credit for.

For the record Stevo, has there even been an umpire or referee in AFL or in other sports whom has met your expectations?

Do you simply dislike officials? Would an official ever do a good job in your eyes?

Stevo, we need your solutions on how to make the umpiring better?

My solution from weeks ago was to have each coach have one coaches challenge a half. People did not support this solution.

Can people provide some other ideas.

[Bangalore Swans]

I think he took way too much notice of Stevie J - that’s was his “thing” and for some reason a few of our lads have taken to doing this sideways samba style of kick too.

I would agree on Isacc’s kicking for goal. He is a wonderful exponent of the drop punt. I don’t know why he tried that around the corner kick late in the 4th quarter. Looked a drop punt for sure.

That left foot snap from a non acute angle only just snuck in.

I don’t mind if they run around when right on the boundary libe but it should be drop punts apart from that.

Matthew Lloyd and Tony Lockett struck over 2,000 goals between at around 70%. They used drop punts and kicked through the ball.

Why can’t modern day players follow these two?

[chalbilto]

For the record Stevo, has there even been an umpire or referee in AFL or in other sports whom has met your expectations?

Do you simply dislike officials? Would an official ever do a good job in your eyes?

Stevo, we need your solutions on how to make the umpiring better?

My solution from weeks ago was to have each coach have one coaches challenge a half. People did not support this solution.

Can people provide some other ideas.

If they umpires became full time professionals I believe the standard would improve overall. Further I think that if this were the case, then all of the umpires could rotate by have sessions with all of the clubs, that way building a relationship and understanding with the players and I stress that all of the umpires go to all of the clubs.

[stevoswan]

The Saints apparently won yesterday. The media only sighted Saints and their errors. Not a Swan played. Even the Mongrelpunt only mentions Sainters. We Swans just looked pretty and allowed Sainters to fall over their own feet. Ok, I get the media sucks up to the Victorian crowd but we are in the top six with some pretty impressive performances. So looks like the footy shows will have another Swan free week. Oh, Bud might get a short mention.

Yes, you're right.....they're biased wankers and it's frustrating but we've known thps for years.....for us it's called 'under the radar' and we like it that way. Swans teams constantly proving critics wrong and dragging these know-all's kicking and screaming into a reality they're not at all comfortable with. Love it!

[AB Swannie]

I've done some refereeing in other sports and it is a tough gig. However, the fact is that the umpires were poor yesterday and more of the poor calls seemed to go against us. I'm not of the belief (perhaps naive) that the umpiring is biased - I just think they had poor games just like some of our players.

That being said, we won the game and move on. At the beginning of the year, there is no way we would've been favoured to beat the Saints. The predicted spots on the table are reversed so I'm thrilled that we won. We still have so much improvement that the competition should be scared for 2022 and 2023. I agree that the younger mids have dropped 10%. Warner, RB, Florent are not accumulating the ball like we would like. Hopefully, the bye comes and we can give them some rest, get Gulden and Campbell some more games and give some of the big boys a fright in September.

[Bangalore Swans]

If they umpires became full time professionals I believe the standard would improve overall. Further I think that if this were the case, then all of the umpires could rotate by have sessions with all of the clubs, that way building a relationship and understanding with the players and I stress that all of the umpires go to all of the clubs.

I think that’s a strong proposal.

I think the AFL would like to do this. After season 2019 there was a lot of money in the game. Now with COVID there is far less money, the industry has had to make financial cuts and the resources to fund full time umpiring is not there at the current time.

I like the proposal and I think it would deliver better decisions for all clubs.

- - - Updated - - -

Does anyone think it’s a huge concern that only 19,000 people came to the SCG yesterday?

It was a great day, Buddy was in form, the team has a winning record and the crowds didn’t turn up.

[SwanSand]

I've done some refereeing in other sports and it is a tough gig. However, the fact is that the umpires were poor yesterday and more of the poor calls seemed to go against us. I'm not of the belief (perhaps naive) that the umpiring is biased - I just think they had poor games just like some of our players.

That being said, we won the game and move on. At the beginning of the year, there is no way we would've been favoured to beat the Saints. The predicted spots on the table are reversed so I'm thrilled that we won. We still have so much improvement that the competition should be scared for 2022 and 2023. I agree that the younger mids have dropped 10%. Warner, RB, Florent are not accumulating the ball like we would like. Hopefully, the bye comes and we can give them some rest, get Gulden and Campbell some more games and give some of the big boys a fright in September.

Completely agree with the young ones. Maybe there isn’t enough pressure from down below. Once it arrives in the form of Campbell and Gulden And maybe Blakey and Stephens everyone would lift.

We are lacking in the run from half back. Braeden is being missed and Guldens forward entries are being sorely missed but Papley has stepped up and is placing it on a platter for others well in the last 3 weeks.

[stevoswan]

For the record Stevo, has there even been an umpire or referee in AFL or in other sports whom has met your expectations?

Do you simply dislike officials? Would an official ever do a good job in your eyes?

Stevo, we need your solutions on how to make the umpiring better?

My solution from weeks ago was to have each coach have one coaches challenge a half. People did not support this solution.

Can people provide some other ideas.

To be fair, my original comment was written somewhat in the heat of the moment straight after a game which was almost stolen from us. Excuse my passion.:rolleyes: Are you happy with how 2016 ended?

Interesting that you completely miss (or choose to ignore) my point. I never claimed to know the solution....but it's obvious to all (who know the game) that AFL umpires need to leave their bias at the front door when they head out to travel to the match they are umpiring. I will never like a cheating official....would you? Some of the completely baffling decisions we receive are tantamount to cheating IMO.

I also understand that the league's constant tinkering with the rules doesn't make their job any easier. I certainly will commend an umpire on a good performance.....trouble is, that rarely happens these days. Again, it is obvious to all (who know the game) that the standard of AFL umpiring is on a downward spiral and that we are on the receiving end of some shockingly biased, potentially result changing decisions.

AFL umpires are not even fully professional....and what is the career path of an AFL umpire? Are they even former players who actually understand the game and have then umpired through the lower ranks and built up to a standard befitting of an umpire at the top level or are the league just grabbing accountants and the like who feel like 'doing something different on the weekends' then read a (confusing) rule book and attempt to pass a simple 'learner driver' type test to 'qualify'? Who knows?!

......and don't get me started on boundary umpires. Half of them can't even throw the ball in properly! It's not that bloody hard but how many times do you see two ruckman full on sprinting towards the boundary line in a vain attempt to just get to the drop of the 'throw-in'? It's an embarrassment for the highest level of the game.

Coaches challenge? Assuming this would be post game? Anyone can see that wouldn't be workable....and that the AFL would stuff it up anyway because they look at things in the same Vic-centric way the umpires 'see' things on the ground. If it was to happen during the game, like a goal review....can you honestly say you have confidence in bunker goal reviews from what history has taught us? I certainly don't and I don't think many would.

Yes, I agree it is a hard job but it's a job for resilient and fair minded people who have integrity.....it's not a job for a-holes with none. I wouldn't be discouraging anyone from having a go.....just that they do it with honesty and integrity and unflinching neutrality. Those that don't will rightly feel my wrath.....and they should feel yours too!

Oh and one last thing.....dismount from your 'fairness to all' high horse. As a Swans fan, it's draining to witness such A(V)FL naivety.

Cheers.

[Kafka's Ghost]

I think that’s a strong proposal.

I think the AFL would like to do this. After season 2019 there was a lot of money in the game. Now with COVID there is far less money, the industry has had to make financial cuts and the resources to fund full time umpiring is not there at the current time.

I like the proposal and I think it would deliver better decisions for all clubs.

- - - Updated - - -

Does anyone think it’s a huge concern that only 19,000 people came to the SCG yesterday?

It was a great day, Buddy was in form, the team has a winning record and the crowds didn’t turn up.

It’s disappointing there weren’t more there to support the team, but the short notice played havoc with people’s plans. I was able to go, my partner wasn’t, and I know half-a-dozen others who also had other commitments, including work, which they’d taken on assuming this was an away game. The conjecture that it be played in Cairns right up until Wednesday only exacerbated this situation. The flexible fixture may benefit everyone overall during this difficult period, but it means that planning around games is not possible.

[barry]

We've got through 2 potentially dangerous games where if we lost either, our season would be in trouble.

So all looks rosey from here.

[Matty10]

It’s disappointing there weren’t more there to support the team, but the short notice played havoc with people’s plans. I was able to go, my partner wasn’t, and I know half-a-dozen others who also had other commitments, including work, which they’d taken on assuming this was an away game. The conjecture that it be played in Cairns right up until Wednesday only exacerbated this situation. The flexible fixture may benefit everyone overall during this difficult period, but it means that planning around games is not possible.

I think the crowd was pretty good under the circumstances. Apart from the points mentioned above, there were also no Saints or Swans supporters travelling From Victoria.

[Edit: Does anyone know why a person’s name is sometimes missing when you quote them?]

[AB Swannie]

I think the crowd was pretty good under the circumstances. Apart from the points mentioned above, there were also no Saints or Swans supporters travelling From Victoria.

I suspect the late change to be a home game had a huge impact. Personally, I plan game day attendance a bit in advance ensuring nothing else is on the calendar.

[stevoswan]

All the good stuff from yesterday's game (and Riles).

All 13 Swans Goals - Swans vs St Kilda Highlights | R12, 2021 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/w2xkODij2bw)

[Markwebbos]

Do people think they’ll freshen up the side for the Hawks game and give Wicks and the Chad a break? Could Taylor get a game?

I know people have also been calling for the head of whoever was playing on Higgins yesterday. When I watched the highlights it looked like Lloyd was on him both times, but that may not have been all game.

[Kafka's Ghost]

All the good stuff from yesterday's game (and Riles).

All 13 Swans Goals - Swans vs St Kilda Highlights | R12, 2021 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/w2xkODij2bw)

Thanks for sharing this link. Enjoyable viewing.

[HeeneyIsAGun]

FWIW I thought we won the game pretty comfortably considering the ordinary umpiring, There were at least two goals gifted to the Saints, keeping them in it for longer than they deserved. And in any case, a wins a win. If we can tip over the Hawks next week, we set ourselves up for a really good run at the finals, and possibly a top 4 spot.

[AB Swannie]

FWIW I thought we won the game pretty comfortably considering the ordinary umpiring, There were at least two goals gifted to the Saints, keeping them in it for longer than they deserved. And in any case, a wins a win. If we can tip over the Hawks next week, we set ourselves up for a really good run at the finals, and possibly a top 4 spot.

In many ways I agree with this. If we had lost it would’ve been unjust. The eye test said we were always he better, more dangerous side but just couldn’t get away mainly due to a few gifts to the Saints. The promising thing with this is that we were really a long way from our best.

[crackedactor 01]

Stevic, Matthew Nicholls and for a special encore appearance, Scott McLaren.

I am not convinced Razor ray is anti Swans, he just is a bit erratic. I have serious doubts on Stevic, Mollison and Nicholls not being Anti Swans.

[Nico]

Reduced load then? They just look a bit jaded, especially when compared to how they were at the start of the season. I'm sure there is a sweet spot in terms of maintaining fitness and recuperating from the first half of the season.

They get a rest from the brutal body on body for a game. I think they probably have a a couple of days where they do nothing and get rid of some niggling injuries.

[Nico]

The Saints apparently won yesterday. The media only sighted Saints and their errors. Not a Swan played. Even the Mongrelpunt only mentions Sainters. We Swans just looked pretty and allowed Sainters to fall over their own feet. Ok, I get the media sucks up to the Victorian crowd but we are in the top six with some pretty impressive performances. So looks like the footy shows will have another Swan free week. Oh, Bud might get a short mention.

Any chance Gary Lyon will wax lyrical about Max King on On The Couch. He never stopped talking about him.

[royboy42]

Whoever was predominately on Higgins needs to be dropped (was it Fox?). 7 shots on goal, 12 marks. He basically did as he pleased, as if he was playing unmarked.

Our defence is looking quite shakey, with a lack of cohesion. Horse said as much, making the comment in his pressers that they scored too many easy goals. Dropping off tackles is not helping. As good as JMac has been in attack, he gets swatted off too easily. Send him over to Trent Robinson and the Roosters for a refresher.

I also agree our midfield looks a bit knackered and I think the bye can't come quick enough. If not for Hickey being a one man midfield, we would've been slaughtered inside. He's just been incredible this year, even playing with one leg. If I was the coaching staff, I would just give the players a week off after the Hawks game.

I suspect Longmire's 'easy goals' reference was more about the umpiring than our defensive lapses.

Subtle enough to avoid a fine, I hope.

But the point you made is valid...our defence is lacking concentration, for whatever reasons.

And Hickey, did the whole football world miss this guy? Or is he just a late...very late developer.

However we got him, thank goodness we did.

[Nico]

My son is itching to umpire, which he can do next year. He's convinced they're all hopeless and he can do a much better job. I'm happy for him to do it as I think it will be a very humbling experience for him............

Ok Dawg, here are some stats for your son to contemplate. In yesterday's game there were 271 contested possessions, 24 contested marks and untold marking contests. In each of these your son may need to make a decision. I am guessing he might get a few decisions wrong.

[Mel]

Does anyone think it’s a huge concern that only 19,000 people came to the SCG yesterday?

It was a great day, Buddy was in form, the team has a winning record and the crowds didn’t turn up.

Saturday afternoon games are generally hard for active families with a lot of kids' sports being on Saturday morning and early afternoon. Given the short notice it made it even trickier to organise. Most people I spoke to about going already had plans thinking the game was away.

[Wardy]

Stevic, Matthew Nicholls and for a special encore appearance, Scott McLaren.

You forgot Darren Goldspink!! 🤣

[Blue Sun]

I am not convinced Razor ray is anti Swans, he just is a bit erratic. I have serious doubts on Stevic, Mollison and Nicholls not being Anti Swans.
Stevic is absolutely anti-Swans. No doubt about that. I’d love to see his career total for frees against and for Sydney. Any way we can find that stat?

[Kafka's Ghost]

I am not convinced Razor ray is anti Swans, he just is a bit erratic. I have serious doubts on Stevic, Mollison and Nicholls not being Anti Swans.

I don’t think Nicholls is anti-Swans, he’s just incredibly officious and pedantic.
Stevic, on the other hand, has made some shocking decisions against us, with 2016 GF his supreme achievement.

[Markwebbos]

Don't wish to be a spoilsport, but could the umpiring please have its own thread?

[Wardy]

I don’t think Nicholls is anti-Swans, he’s just incredibly officious and pedantic.
Stevic, on the other hand, has made some shocking decisions against us, with 2016 GF his supreme achievement. and to think we all paid $400 per ticket (plus travel expenses, accomodation and our contributions to the Victorian economy)to witness the tripe he delivered.

[Bangalore Swans]

Any chance Gary Lyon will wax lyrical about Max King on On The Couch. He never stopped talking about him.

To be fair Gary Lyon has spoken positively about the Swans on many occasions. He complements our young players and he admires Franklin.

I didn’t know that Lyon was a player that Franklin admired growing up.

[MattW]

Don't wish to be a spoilsport, but could the umpiring please have its own thread?

Good call; in the vein of the sandpit.

[Matty10]

Good call; in the vein of the sandpit.

It would probably be a very popular thread!

People could return to it each week, check the stats of umpires in the lead-up to games, reinforce their suspicions during games and then talk conspiracy theories when we wind up on the wrong side of the free kick ledger at the end.

Who’s going to start it?

[Nico]

To be fair Gary Lyon has spoken positively about the Swans on many occasions. He complements our young players and he admires Franklin.

I didn’t know that Lyon was a player that Franklin admired growing up.

I like Lyon but he was nauseatingly yesterday, and I rarely take notice of the special comments people.

[Mark26]

Does anyone think it’s a huge concern that only 19,000 people came to the SCG yesterday?

It was a great day, Buddy was in form, the team has a winning record and the crowds didn’t turn up.

I'll be a financial member until there's no breath left in me. I love planning our trips to Sydney to watch the Swans (which is a six hour round trip drive).

But this little hiccup called a pandemic is keeping us at home until the situation is much safer.

I suspect we aren't the only ones.

[Ludwig]

Before we send the umpiring thread into exile, I thought I might add a slightly different viewpoint on the so called umpiring problem.

My suspicion is that umpires are feeling underappreciated and denigrated by society and are striking back on the footy field in a search for recognition and desire to become an important part of the community at large.

I have a few ideas that might help things along.

We need a national holiday of love and reconciliation with the umpiring community, to make umpires feel good about themselves.

On that day we can all wear fluoro green or yellow shirts. (Ludwig Fashions LLC already have these on sale on our website):

https://www.kmart.com.au/wcsstore/Kmart/images/ncatalog/f/1/69798351-1-f.jpg

https://publicitypromotionalproducts.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/0002307_PREMIERE-TEE-FLUORO-YELLOW.jpeg

We can even have an umpire flag:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/al3Yrs2Mds7DGSo0vQoJ8fb8BIPhiGnsngIuyhG3eHDGwMtE0K v_Xf1PkXJE9rSIuWbhaUBh6c3RGqXFzor52A_jbtMzHIpgdQyL dURzXQ

And maybe we should have a big parade in Sydney to show we care. Let's call it Green And Yellow Pride Day.

Maybe the AFL can have an event where famous footy folks dress up in green and yellow and are pushed down a slide into a big bucket of ice water. It doesn't make sense, but this is the AFL. It doesn't have to make any more sense than the HTB rule.

If we just show we care, I'm sure we will find that many folks in our community that we thought of as bogans will come out as umpires, filling the ranks of the green and yellow community.

Brighter days are just around the corner.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Stevic, Meredith and Jeffrey are the three I’ll never forgive for 2016. Incompetence or cheating, it doesn’t matter.

The AFL made clear afterwards it was sub-standard and cost three or four goals. You screw up a grand final and you should be banished.

Stevic in particular was renowned during the Hawks era as a fanatical 23rd player. Some of his umpiring was truly outrageous, no matter who the Hawks played.

[MattW]

There's the umpiring thread (a sticky); the 2016 Grand Final Injustice Thread; and the Combined Umpiring and Grand Final Mega-Thread, burning an eternal flame.

[mcs]

I don’t think Nicholls is anti-Swans, he’s just incredibly officious and pedantic.
Stevic, on the other hand, has made some shocking decisions against us, with 2016 GF his supreme achievement.

Every time I watch the replaying of the glory of our 2012 GF, I realise just how bad Stevic was that day too - he tried his utmost to stuff us good and proper that day too. We were just good enough on that day to get above it. He is an awful umpire imho - though he may well not have to worry about the jibes of a life membership at the Hawks for a while, given they are seemingly headed well towards irrelevance for a while (hopefully as long as Carlton has been down there if karma has anything to do with it!)

[giant]

In many ways I agree with this. If we had lost it would’ve been unjust. The eye test said we were always he better, more dangerous side but just couldn’t get away mainly due to a few gifts to the Saints. The promising thing with this is that we were really a long way from our best.

Disagree with that. NWS the umpiring, the Saints worked harder, tackled more, ran further etc. We were damn lucky to get away with a win.

[111431]

[QUOTE=giant;820124]Disagree with that. NWS the umpiring, the Saints worked harder, tackled more, ran further etc. We were damn lucky to get away with a win.[/QUOTE

I agree with this. Sure the umpires made mistakes but they do every week. I thought we were undisciplined starting with our co captain Ramps. Need to play much smarter or the good sides will have us for breakfast in the big games that count

[NeonBible]

Another round down and here is how our Swans are going in player ratings! I know these are a contentious source but any evidence to support a good discussion of the game is worth reading i say!!

https://twitter.com/AFLPlayerRating/status/1401513856489299975?s=20

-Young Errol 1st for his age group! Played just enough games for his 8 matches to count! (ahead of Tom Powell, Nik Cox, Sam Berry and Archie Perkins)
-Chad is 3rd for his age group (behind Tom Green and Caleb Serong, ahead of Kysaiah Pickett and Noah Anderson)
-Rowbottom is 2nd for his age group (behind Sam Walsh)
-McInerney is 4th in the same age group ^^ (ahead of Jack Lukosius)
-Mills has cracked the top 5 of his age group! (behind Clayton Oliver, Darcy Parish, Ben Keays and Jacob Hopper - as a side note, what a pick up Keays has been for the crows!)
-The ever-underrated Parker is 4th for his age group (behind Tom Liberatore, Hugh Greenwood and Jarryd Lyons)
-HICKEY is 4th in his age group (behind some wonderful players - Nic Naitanui, Dustin Martin and Rory Sloane! Ahead of Max Gawn!)

Some of these players could be better than they havebeen so far but add in the always reliable Jake Lloyd, the rise of Cunningham, further development of McCartin and Florent, a reborn Hayward!, Buddy back on the mend, Dawson growing into a star .. you can really see the difference it makes to have quality consistent performers in the team!! Bright youth mixed with experienced heads we KNOW can take us to glory because they've done it before! Its a recipe for success!!

Final note - our 4 players represented in the under 22 age groups in these player ratings is more than any other team - take that Essendon-loving journalists :p

[Doctor J.]

Just a thought.

For a while I have considered what combination of umpires would be the worst the Swans could have in charge of a game. I came up with.
Stevic
Razor Ray
Mollison

But after yesterday I think we can add 11 Curtis Deboy to the list.

Nothing beats these 3 criminals

Matt Stevic, Simon Meredith, Scott Jeffery

[Markwebbos]

Hayward does seem to have his mojo back

[Ralph Dawg]

Hayward does seem to have his mojo back
I agree. In a fit of rage a few weeks back, I called for him never to be picked again. Good thing Horse never listens to me 🤣

- - - Updated - - -

Had a look at Higgins's highlights on AFL.com and it looks like he was mainly against Fox, Hewett and Lloyd. Obviously he was having a day out.

[RogueSwan]

... Can people provide some other ideas.

I'm not sure how, but if the AFL could remove the grey areas in some of the rules it would go a long way towards better umpiring.
It's one of the reasons I'm not against a last touched rule for out of bounds.

[crackedactor 01]

and to think we all paid $400 per ticket (plus travel expenses, accomodation and our contributions to the Victorian economy)to witness the tripe he delivered.

I feel your pain. I paid over $500 per ticket for myself and wife for first ever Grand Final and had to witness that umpiring crap. I though never again.

[Kafka's Ghost]

Disagree with that. NWS the umpiring, the Saints worked harder, tackled more, ran further etc. We were damn lucky to get away with a win.

Can’t agree with this at all. While we weren’t at our best, we had 7 more inside 50s and 4 more shots at goal that registered a score. Heeney could have sewn up the game early in the last quarter, but no one is mentioning his misses of relatively easy shots. The Saints were presented with 4 questionable gifts, keeping them in it.

[Nico]

Can’t agree with this at all. While we weren’t at our best, we had 7 more inside 50s and 4 more shots at goal that registered a score. Heeney could have sewn up the game early in the last quarter, but no one is mentioning his misses of relatively easy shots. The Saints were presented with 4 questionable gifts, keeping them in it.

Good call.

[neilfws]

Pleasant afternoon at the SCG but quite a horrible game to watch, even with the win. Seen a few ugly Swans/Saints encounters over the years.

Pluses: Hayward had a great game, and good to see Amartey who I thought went pretty well.

Several periods in the game when I thought they were doing their best to lose it (regardless of umpiring). It's a "take the win and move on" game for me.

Much is being made of the next game, with the Hawks off a bye and the Swans coming from two short breaks. I hope it's not another danger game and the Swans lift.

[Faunac8]

Good summation from The Roar although he obviously didn’t see the Suns game I think I would class it as the worst win of the year

Sydney Swans – Their worst performance of the year, but four points is what they needed. They got them, and we mercifully never have to speak of this game again.

[dejavoodoo44]

Pleasant afternoon at the SCG but quite a horrible game to watch, even with the win. Seen a few ugly Swans/Saints encounters over the years.

Pluses: Hayward had a great game, and good to see Amartey who I thought went pretty well.

Several periods in the game when I thought they were doing their best to lose it (regardless of umpiring). It's a "take the win and move on" game for me.

Much is being made of the next game, with the Hawks off a bye and the Swans coming from two short breaks. I hope it's not another danger game and the Swans lift.

I didn't really enjoy the game, when I listened to the live radio coverage, but I enjoyed it more when I watched the replay. That's probably to do with my expectations of the Saints. I was viewing them more as a team that's had some insipid capitulations this season, rather than a team just outside the eight, who beat us easily last season. Therefore, I was a bit disappointed that we weren't boosting our percentage. However, watching the replay, it was obvious they were applying plenty of pressure, so it was reasonably entertaining watching us overcome that.

I was also pleasantly surprised by Amartey. He was quicker and more nimble than I was expecting. And he's certainly less barge-arsed, than he was in previous seasons.

And on Amartey's fitness. Tadhg was doing commentary on ABC radio, and he claimed that Amartey was so unfit when he arrived at the club, that he couldn't do a lap of the oval. Even if that's only half true, it's surprising that he managed to make it on to a list. I can't work out if that's an insightful bit of drafting by our recruiting staff, or shoddy negligence?

[AnnieH]

One thing I noticed was that when we had the ball, the ainters manned up so far up our butts, it was hard to move anywhere.
When they had the ball... the space the swans allowed them kept them in the game up to the last five minutes.
An ugly win, but I'll take it.

[Sandridge]

We weren't at our sparkling best and the game may well have been a forgettable spectacle but if the result had been reversed, they would've been only one game behind us on the ladder.

Our win means that the Saints, and a few other teams with realistic final 8 aspirations, are 3 or more games behind us.

An important win! Go Bloods!

[giant]

One thing I noticed was that when we had the ball, the ainters manned up so far up our butts, it was hard to move anywhere.
When they had the ball... the space the swans allowed them kept them in the game up to the last five minutes.
An ugly win, but I'll take it.

Let alone the times we let it get out over the back, let Brad Hill (for the first time this year) stroll past for handball receives, were comfortable being second to the ball etc. Errgh, it was a terribly ugly win.

What I will say, as you noted, so many of these teams that seem to be struggling this year - Pies, Saints, Crows, (to a lesser extent) Blues - seemed to have taken their pressure game up a gear when they come to the SCG. Whether it's because they sniff they're a chance against us or whether we're subconsciously off the boil, it's not clear, but I guess it's good that we've had to work hard to beat these otherwise "easybeats". Though geez I wouldn't mind a big win at home for a nice change...

[dimelb]

Another round down and here is how our Swans are going in player ratings! I know these are a contentious source but any evidence to support a good discussion of the game is worth reading i say!!

https://twitter.com/AFLPlayerRating/status/1401513856489299975?s=20

-Young Errol 1st for his age group! Played just enough games for his 8 matches to count! (ahead of Tom Powell, Nik Cox, Sam Berry and Archie Perkins)
-Chad is 3rd for his age group (behind Tom Green and Caleb Serong, ahead of Kysaiah Pickett and Noah Anderson)
-Rowbottom is 2nd for his age group (behind Sam Walsh)
-McInerney is 4th in the same age group ^^ (ahead of Jack Lukosius)
-Mills has cracked the top 5 of his age group! (behind Clayton Oliver, Darcy Parish, Ben Keays and Jacob Hopper - as a side note, what a pick up Keays has been for the crows!)
-The ever-underrated Parker is 4th for his age group (behind Tom Liberatore, Hugh Greenwood and Jarryd Lyons)
-HICKEY is 4th in his age group (behind some wonderful players - Nic Naitanui, Dustin Martin and Rory Sloane! Ahead of Max Gawn!)

Some of these players could be better than they havebeen so far but add in the always reliable Jake Lloyd, the rise of Cunningham, further development of McCartin and Florent, a reborn Hayward!, Buddy back on the mend, Dawson growing into a star .. you can really see the difference it makes to have quality consistent performers in the team!! Bright youth mixed with experienced heads we KNOW can take us to glory because they've done it before! Its a recipe for success!!

Final note - our 4 players represented in the under 22 age groups in these player ratings is more than any other team - take that Essendon-loving journalists :p

No place for Heeney?

[snajik]

That being said, we won the game and move on. At the beginning of the year, there is no way we would've been favoured to beat the Saints. The predicted spots on the table are reversed so I'm thrilled that we won. We still have so much improvement that the competition should be scared for 2022 and 2023. I agree that the younger mids have dropped 10%. Warner, RB, Florent are not accumulating the ball like we would like. Hopefully, the bye comes and we can give them some rest, get Gulden and Campbell some more games and give some of the big boys a fright in September.

Something being overlooked here and elsewhere is that RB and Chad are usually only being given 60-70% game time. So when it looks as though they've 'gone missing' chances are they are on the bench. Their stats actually stack up ok once this is taken into account.
I'm guessing that their respective minutes will increase as they get more games under their belts. It's a big ask for players in their teens early 20s to be impactful centre square midfielders while playing 80-90% game time. I'd say they are also be careful with RB, bringing him back slowly from his hyperextended knee injury. In a couple of seasons they'll both be locks as midfield starters. Both play with poise and purpose.
Florent is pretty much already there. Occasionally has a day where he's not as potent but these are becoming less frequent.

[i'm-uninformed2]

In critiquing RB or Warner or some of the other younger guys (not sure Florent is in that category any more) as looking tired, I don't think too many of us are knocking them per se.

In fact, it's understandable a full season is a challenge for them. I for one was posting rounds 4 or 5 that we'd hopefully start to see some management of our first year players in particular and second and third year players to a degree too. Horse has been open that they probably took Campbell one round too many (albeit as a sub that then had to be used) and that they deliberately backed off McDonald for a few weeks. They gave JMac a precautionary week off against Freo. That all makes perfect sense and is smart.

Giving RB - who might still have a knee issue - and Warner a week off between the bye and end of H&A season would probably be wise too.

If that costs us a game at some stage, so be it. Of course we want to win every week, but to be honest - we're building for '23 onwards, so let's cultivate and manage our young guys; rather than break them.

[NeonBible]

No place for Heeney?

Apparently not!

[NeonBible]

Chad i thimk is OK. He hasn't been playing inside mid as much as early rounds because he's been pushed out by Rowbottom's return. He isn't finding the ball as much playing wing and forward so his possession drop is understandable. But i wonder if this is worth it?? Taking midfield opportunities away from Chad to accommodate another mid who it's not happening for atm? Very tough to tell from the outside looking in but if Rowbottom is injured he shouldn't be out there, or at least not in such a key role where at most he will only get 15 touches and not be very spritely or damaging. I am not with TheBloods in canning him from the midfield forever! But in his current shape it doesnt make sense to be keeping him in there when we have Chad ready to go instead.. thoughts??

[snajik]

I disagree. I think both Chad and RB are having a significant impact, but as IU2 says above we don't want them busted up by the time they reach 23. It's a longer season this year (longer still if we play finals which we should from here) and with longer quarters. It's a step up for both and I'm happy to have faith in Horse making a call about how much game time each should have, particularly in such demanding roles. I don't reckon the possession counts tell the whole story.
Pretty certain that in 4-5 years our midfield will have a Mills, Chad, RB look about it, so we need to be thinking about the now and the then.

[AB Swannie]

Interesting heat map for The Chad. From this, it certainly does look like he's been pushed out of the middle. I think that is a detriment to the team as he really is only suited to the one role.

2300

[ugg]

Coaches' votes

6 Jack Steele (STK)
6 Jack Higgins (STK)
5 Brad Crouch (STK)
4 Dane Rampe (SYD)
4 Jake Lloyd (SYD)
3 Tom Hickey (SYD)
2 Tim Membrey (STK)


Tricky breakdown, the only permutation I've managed to make work is:

Steele/Higgins - one 4-2, the other 5-1
Crouch 5-0
Lloyd/Rampe - one 3-1, the other 4-0
Hickey 3-0
Membrey 2-0

[ugg]

Interesting heat map for The Chad. From this, it certainly does look like he's been pushed out of the middle. I think that is a detriment to the team as he really is only suited to the one role.

2300
With Stephens dropped for the game, and no specialist winger coming in directly for him, it necessitated a reshuffle and it looks like (from my POV) that Warner and to a lesser extent Florent played more on the wing than in previous weeks.

[707]

We weren't at our sparkling best and the game may well have been a forgettable spectacle but if the result had been reversed, they would've been only one game behind us on the ladder.

Our win means that the Saints, and a few other teams with realistic final 8 aspirations, are 3 or more games behind us.

An important win! Go Bloods!

PLUS percentage, for some clubs huge percentage so they'd need to win 4 more games than us, not easy with only 10 games to go. It looks like 13 wins will be needed to make the finals, clubs like Saints need to win 8 out of 10, and sweetly Carlton 9 out of 10 :-)

We need 5 out of 10 and can reduce that ask by beating the Hawks next week.

[NeonBible]

Interesting heat map for The Chad. From this, it certainly does look like he's been pushed out of the middle. I think that is a detriment to the team as he really is only suited to the one role.

2300

We usually roll 4 players through the midfield and will maybe have one or two others with smaller rotations

Most of this year it's been Joey, Parks, Mills and Chad in there, Rowbottom injured and rotating between inside and wing when he returned, and Ollie similar.

Since about the Collingwood or Freo game it's been Joey, Parks, Mills and Rowbottom, with Chad swapping to inside and wing and even half forward rotations.

So Rowbottom's return to the midfield has meant Chad's had less time in there - whether thats a good thing or not likely depends on how highly you rate those two lads!!

[Matty10]

PLUS percentage, for some clubs huge percentage so they'd need to win 4 more games than us, not easy with only 10 games to go. It looks like 13 wins will be needed to make the finals, clubs like Saints need to win 8 out of 10, and sweetly Carlton 9 out of 10 :-)

The Giants are still a game behind due to the bye, so they could make up the gap and just be two games and percentage behind.

The big thing for us is that we play teams in the top four and teams just outside the eight in the next 10 games so we have a big say in where we finish up this year. Top four, if we a good enough - outside the eight, if it all falls apart.

[MattW]

Coaches' votes

6 Jack Steele (STK)
6 Jack Higgins (STK)
5 Brad Crouch (STK)
4 Dane Rampe (SYD)
4 Jake Lloyd (SYD)
3 Tom Hickey (SYD)
2 Tim Membrey (STK)


Tricky breakdown, the only permutation I've managed to make work is:

Steele/Higgins - one 4-2, the other 5-1
Crouch 5-0
Lloyd/Rampe - one 3-1, the other 4-0
Hickey 3-0
Membrey 2-0

How about:

Steele: 5,1
Higgins: 5,1
Crouch: 3,2
Rampe: 4,0
Lloyd: 4,0
Hickey: 3,0
Membrey: 2,0.