Rd 3 vs Melbourne Demons @ MCG, Sunday April 2 3:20PM - Pre-match Thread

[AB Swannie]

Time for a separate post.

Selection should be interesting with Buddy returning. Ludwig has gathered some followers with his Buddy 23 as 23rd play in 23 ideas. I'm not on board. Rarely do I see us using a "tall" as the sub. Can't see how we would cope if a smaller player went down. It's easier to err on being too small in the forward line than too tall.

McLean seems to me like the obvious "out" but Amartey only attended 4% of ruck contests last week (presumably only 1 or 2) so McLean is preferred even though I think Amartey has the better tools. Perhaps that was a fitness thing and he will have to step up???

[bloodspirit]

Agree Buddy shouldn't be the sub. Subbed out? Maybe. Subbed in? Definitely not.

Amartey is a better ruck than McLean. Amartey is the more talented player. Hayden is a super solid character and worker. If Amartey can start playing consistently, McLean is the loser.

[stevoswan]

McLean probably stays in this week as Amartey needs more match fitness to be considered for the second ruck position....so selection will be interesting this week, because Buddy's definitely coming back in and he definitely won't be the sub.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

McLean probably stays in this week as Amartey needs more match fitness to be considered for the second ruck position....so selection will be interesting this week, because Buddy's definitely coming back in and he definitely won't be the sub.

Why is the Sub-Buddy not on?
Are you saying he's too valuable on the ground? Or that the club simply can't countenance Buddy as a sub? Or that he's insufficiently team orientated to allow himself to be a sub

[707]

Buddy as sub is not a viable option.

Amartey and McDonald are definitely in so it's McLean who is squeezed out. Buddy draws May, if the latter plays. leaving lesser KPD for Amartey and McDonald.

Catching Melbourne Gawnless is nice luck, let's make the most of it.

[AB Swannie]

Why is the Sub-Buddy not on?
Are you saying he's too valuable on the ground? Or that the club simply can't countenance Buddy as a sub? Or that he's insufficiently team orientated to allow himself to be a sub

IMO, Buddy as a sub has merit if it is purely strategy and Horse can bring him on for Amartey or McLean whenever he wants. However, it backfires if he is subbed on early for an injured small.

[liz]

Buddy as sub is not a viable option.

Amartey and McDonald are definitely in so it's McLean who is squeezed out. Buddy draws May, if the latter plays. leaving lesser KPD for Amartey and McDonald.

Catching Melbourne Gawnless is nice luck, let's make the most of it.

Depends if Amartey is fit enough to provide Ladhams with a little bit of ruck relief. Or if anyone else is game to play ruck were Ladhams to get injured early.

It certainly helps that Melbourne will be without Gawn, and don't really have much else in their team to ruck with. Grundy used to be able to ruck all game (pretty much) but may not yet be capable of that. McDonald is probably the most likely to play a few minutes in the ruck for them. I don't think he's much chop as a ruckman but is probably fitter than Amartey.

[Ludwig]

Buddy can come in for McLean and also do the relief ruck work. He just has to go through his normal marking routine, which usually results in a tap anyway. He's a natural ruckman. He looks bored playing forward after 19 years. He needs a new challenge. By the finals' time, he'll be our #1 ruckman.

[Rob2120]

Why can’t McLean be the sub. Ladhams can do most of the rucking and Amartey play 3 quarters again. We already have 4 on the interchange and I doubt Roberts would be the difference if there was a first half injury.


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[Maltopia]

My reasons for why Buddy should not be a sub:

a) he has not been surpassed yet by the other talls, one game against witches hats has not proven that Almartey and Logan are ready for the number one spot week in week out. We don’t know whether Franklin would have kicked 10+ if he wasn’t suspended, so while we should be very happy about Almartey and Logan kicking 9 (I am!), it isn’t enough data to make such a big structural change.
b) you don’t pay $600K plus for someone to sit out most of the game, if that was the role for Franklin this season, the club would have told him to walk if he didn’t want to sign on for $400K or so.
c) there is likely an understanding between Franklin and the club that he not be the sub in his final year unless coming off injury - I doubt a marquee player, would have signed on for another year to be a sub so early in the season if he is in still performing to a high standard
d) why put the opposition’s best tall defender on Almartey or MacDonald week in week out when they are still so early in their development when Buddy is still around
e) why risk falling behind against a strong opposition and needing to try and play catch up

For those strongly suggesting Franklin be a sub, I think it would be better to simply reduce his TOG and even start him on the interchange in some games and come on with the first rotation. That would give us more data about how Almartey and Logan play without hamstringing ourselves by making Franklin a sub and not being able to use him at all without subbing out another player for the whole match.

[Mark26]

I think what will probably happen will be Buddy will be a straight swap for McLean. We can't have too many talls at once in the forward line.

Roberts is due for a full game, so he'll play in the ressies with Sheldrick to come in as the sub.

[MattW]

I think what will probably happen will be Buddy will be a straight swap for McLean. We can't have too many talls at once in the forward line.

Roberts is due for a full game, so he'll play in the ressies with Sheldrick to come in as the sub.

This is what I'm expecting.

[Roadrunner]

I think what will probably happen will be Buddy will be a straight swap for McLean. We can't have too many talls at once in the forward line.

Roberts is due for a full game, so he'll play in the ressies with Sheldrick to come in as the sub.

This makes the most sense- no way will Buddy be a sub so early in the season, if at all. If fit and eligible, he is in our best 22- simple as that.

[stevoswan]

Why is the Sub-Buddy not on?
Are you saying he's too valuable on the ground? Or that the club simply can't countenance Buddy as a sub? Or that he's insufficiently team orientated to allow himself to be a sub

I just don't reckon the coaches will do it....and some or all of your reasons may well come into it. I do reckon they still see value in having him out there from the start because he takes the number one defender....and then taking him off later if he's been ineffective.....or getting tired with the team in control of the match.

[gloveski]

I think what will probably happen will be Buddy will be a straight swap for McLean. We can't have too many talls at once in the forward line.

Roberts is due for a full game, so he'll play in the ressies with Sheldrick to come in as the sub.

Yep Agree


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[Maltopia]

Steven May in court this week for driving with a suspended licence. Demons premiership star faces court after latest off-field incident (https://apple.news/AbcrfN8EqRBm-bXk0DryIiw)

[KSAS]

Selectors certainly have their headaches this week as dropping McLean for Buddy would expose us in the ruck if Ladhams gets injured. Taking a punt if they do that and same if we played all 4 Talls! Just would've like to see Logan/Armartey forward combination again for another week against a top liner like Melbourne. Maybe Buddy should've been suspended for 2 weeks! (Only kidding!).

I hope they repeat the Number 25 Jumper tribute this week, with Barry Round's career having overlapped between South Melbourne/Sydney. Also hope they're continuing with wearing the Red V for Victorian games.

[Markwebbos]

McLean isn’t a backup ruck. Partey boy is a much better option, even if he’s a bit short of match fitness

[KSAS]

McLean isn’t a backup ruck. Partey boy is a much better option, even if he’s a bit short of match fitness

If that's what the selectors do decide, they may start with Buddy on the bench (not as sub) to give the Logan/Armartey combo another crack to begin with. Buddy could come on to play high half forward role if that combo starts well. It might also throw off Melbourne plans with May who is usually matched on Buddy.

Noticed Logan did play some minutes in the Ruck during the practice matches, so he & Amartey could also possibly share the relief ruck duties for Ladhams.

[ugg]

Now that Gawn is out, I'm not so worried about how our 2nd ruck goes against their 2nd ruck. The Demons have already named Jacob Van Rooyen to make his debut, so their 2nd ruck will either be him or Ben Brown.

AFL 2023: Melbourne’s Jacob van Rooyen to debut v Sydney Swans | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site (https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/melbourne-young-gun-jacob-van-rooyen-will-make-his-debut-against-sydney/news-story/dab17444f8d3db24535dbeba1bebb9dd)

[Ludwig]

I hope we play the Wombat this week. I wanted us to take JVR (Jacob van Rooyen) with the pick we used on Sheldrick and am looking forward to see how they go. I quite like Sheldrick and think he will be a midfield regular in the next couple of years. But JVR would better fill a role we need.

Too much importance is being placed on the relief ruckman role. It doesn't really matter that much, especially when the opposition team only have one regular ruckman as well. I would be more concerned if one of our trainers got injured and couldn't provide massages on the sidelines.

More important than the participants in the ruck contest is how we play the contest to prevent the opposition from gaining advantage with a quick break out of the centre. I know this is something we are cognizant of and continually try to improve. It's much more than just about the ruckman.

It would seem hard to drop Amartey after he got so many coaches votes last week. But you never know.

[chalbilto]

I hope we play the Wombat this week. I wanted us to take JVR (Jacob van Rooyen) with the pick we used on Sheldrick and am looking forward to see how they go. I quite like Sheldrick and think he will be a midfield regular in the next couple of years. But JVR would better fill a role we need.

Too much importance is being placed on the relief ruckman role. It doesn't really matter that much, especially when the opposition team only have one regular ruckman as well. I would be more concerned if one of our trainers got injured and couldn't provide massages on the sidelines.

More important than the participants in the ruck contest is how we play the contest to prevent the opposition from gaining advantage with a quick break out of the centre. I know this is something we are cognizant of and continually try to improve. It's much more than just about the ruckman.

It would seem hard to drop Amartey after he got so many coaches votes last week. But you never know.



It would be ridiculous to drop him after his performance last Sunday.
For mine (baring injuries)-
In Buddy - Out McLean

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Now that Gawn is out, I'm not so worried about how our 2nd ruck goes against their 2nd ruck. The Demons have already named Jacob Van Rooyen to make his debut, so their 2nd ruck will either be him or Ben Brown.[/url]
+1
If they're going with a makeshift ruck, so I'd be OKish with a semi-fit Amarty.

Which means the selectors can go conservative (their default state) and bring Buddy if for McLean. Of more interest is Roberts - hopefully not 23rd man again.

[ugg]

Ins are Sheldrick Franklin and Hall-Kahan

[stevoswan]

Squad of 26 announced for this weekend.

Extended interchange:

Harry Cunningham Chad Warner Braeden Campbell
Justin McInerney Hayden McLean Matt Roberts
Hugo Hall-Kahan Angus Sheldrick

My guess is the first four named on that bench will play and the rest miss out, incl. McLean. Roberts sub again?

[Ludwig]

The RWO selection consensus looks on target, but it really wasn't that hard this week.

Happy to see HHK make the extended bench. He was very good last year and one of our best in the first VFL match this year. Definitely looks someone who will be looking to make our best 22 soon. The only problem is that there aren't any spots up for grabs. Expecting that Robbie Fox will jump the queue once he's ready to go.

[i'm-uninformed2]

I know a few more regular ressie watchers on here have been enthusiastic on HHK, including Ludwig, so nice to see him at least become an emergency. For those who have seen more of him than me - and the snippets I’ve seen I like - what’s the view on his eventual position or player comparison?

As for sub, the only change I could see is Sheldrick for Roberts - not because Roberts has done anything wrong, just to give him a full game for match fitness.

[dejavoodoo44]

I know a few more regular ressie watchers on here have been enthusiastic on HHK, including Ludwig, so nice to see him at least become an emergency. For those who have seen more of him than me - and the snippets I’ve seen I like - what’s the view on his eventual position or player comparison?

As for sub, the only change I could see is Sheldrick for Roberts - not because Roberts has done anything wrong, just to give him a full game for match fitness.
On Hall-Kahan; if one of our outside runners went down, like McInerney, Gulden, Stephens or Campbell, then he'd probably fit seamlessly as a replacement in that rotation. He's fast, not afraid to take the game on and a classy ball user. Same for Corey Warner, who I also think might be close to a debut.

[RogueSwan]

"... Expecting that Robbie Fox will jump the queue once he's ready to go.
Meaning he will be first in for an injury or someone out of form? Or will he push out someone from the current side?

[Ludwig]

Meaning he will be first in for an injury or someone out of form? Or will he push out someone from the current side?I don't see anyone he would push out of the side, so I think he will have to wait for an injury or poor form to make the side. I suspect he will get a couple of warmup games in the VFL in any case, as there's no need to rush him in. There's going to be pressure to get some games into the likes of Sheldrick, Roberts, HHK and Gould. I don't know how they fit into the side, but it's not good to let the queue of AFL ready players get too long, else they will start to look elsewhere for opportunities.

[The Big Cat]

I don't see anyone he would push out of the side, so I think he will have to wait for an injury or poor form to make the side. I suspect he will get a couple of warmup games in the VFL in any case, as there's no need to rush him in. There's going to be pressure to get some games into the likes of Sheldrick, Roberts, HHK and Gould. I don't know how they fit into the side, but it's not good to let the queue of AFL ready players get too long, else they will start to look elsewhere for opportunities.

I think we can stop talking about Gould. I think his papers are stamped. Seems there are a dozen players in front of him.

[dejavoodoo44]

I don't see anyone he would push out of the side, so I think he will have to wait for an injury or poor form to make the side. I suspect he will get a couple of warmup games in the VFL in any case, as there's no need to rush him in. There's going to be pressure to get some games into the likes of Sheldrick, Roberts, HHK and Gould. I don't know how they fit into the side, but it's not good to let the queue of AFL ready players get too long, else they will start to look elsewhere for opportunities.

Which could be a small advantage of the new sub rule, as it gives teams a little bit more chance to rotate fringe players. Although, that probably applies more to midfielders.

[707]

Strong bench, Harry Cunningham Chad Warner Braeden Campbell Justin McInerney - shows we're building depth

[Ludwig]

I think we can stop talking about Gould. I think his papers are stamped. Seems there are a dozen players in front of him.
The test will come when one of the McCartins, Rampe or Blakey are out, and who comes in to replace them. Our back line has a very low injury rate. Good for us, but bad for Gould.

[crackedactor 01]

Strong bench, Harry Cunningham Chad Warner Braeden Campbell Justin McInerney - shows we're building depth

I always find it funny when I see one of the best players in the AFL sitting on the bench in Chad Warner.

[Aaron]

The test will come when one of the McCartins, Rampe or Blakey are out, and who comes in to replace them. Our back line has a very low injury rate. Good for us, but bad for Gould.And we recruited Aaron Francis

[Ruck'n'Roll]

I think we can stop talking about Gould. I think his papers are stamped. Seems there are a dozen players in front of him.

Poor guy, crushed by the unrealisable expectations of RWOers - it's tragic

[Ludwig]

And we recruited Aaron Francis
In our first VFL game, Francis played forward and Edwards was in defence. Francis has the versatility to fill in either end, if he's good enough to play at all. And we still have Melican as a possible backup defender, although I would expect this to be his final year with us. I think we need to develop Gould as that next defender, because the time will come when we will need it. It's his 4th year and he's always just missing out,(according to Tom Harley). So I will take him at his word and look forward to a Gould debut this year.

Gould was our best VFL player last year, so it's not unrealistic to expect him to get a go in the AFL side.

[Dow]

The test will come when one of the McCartins, Rampe or Blakey are out, and who comes in to replace them. Our back line has a very low injury rate. Good for us, but bad for Gould.

This about sums it up for Gould

[Aaron]

In our first VFL game, Francis played forward and Edwards was in defence.
Our VFL team did not have any experienced key tall forward last game but why would us traded in someone just for VFL? Agree that we have to give Gould a chance to develop though. BTW Melican can't be trusted. He was again injured after playing just one real game!! He would be the last in the rank!

[Aaron]

The Interchange bench has been trimmed as expected. Sub to be decided on Sunday:

Backs Tom McCartin Dane Rampe Paddy McCartin
Half Backs Ollie Florent Jake Lloyd Nick Blakey
Centreline Errol Gulden Luke Parker Dylan Stephens
Half Forwards Isaac Heeney Will Hayward Joel Amartey
Forwards Tom Papley Lance Franklin Logan McDonald
Followers Peter Ladhams James Rowbottom Callum Mills
Interchange Harry Cunningham Chad Warner Braeden Campbell Justin McInerney
Emergency Hayden McLean Matt Roberts Angus Sheldrick Hugo Hall-Kahan