Melbourne-based fans deserved better

[treespirit]

There were some dodgy frees, but make no mistake, the better team (on the day) won. They played smarter, more accountable footy for 3 quarters compared to our 1. I was convinced the Swans were playing on a doughnut because they did not go near the centre square for 3 quarters.

To put in nearly 3 quarters of crap in their first game in front of we Melbourne-based supporters was very disappointing and will win them little support. There was a lot of red and white at the 'G today that went away pretty disgruntled with the team. Not nearly good enough. I hope Tony Morwood reads this.

Still, we nearly beat them with one decent quarter. We have the talent, now show me the money!!

[Bart]

Originally posted by treespirit
To put in nearly 3 quarters of crap in their first game in front of we Melbourne-based supporters was very disappointing and will win them little support. There was a lot of red and white at the 'G today that went away pretty disgruntled with the team. Not nearly good enough. I hope Tony Morwood reads this.


And we Sydney-based ones deserved it ? Also didn't realise Tony was one of the selectors.

Memo Myles Baron-Hayes Re: wishes for nest year for fixture in order of Priority

1. 7 matches in Melbourne
2. At the MCG (don't like KP, TD, OO)
3. Team plays well in front of Melbourne based fans

:rolleyes:

[stellation]

Originally posted by treespirit
To put in nearly 3 quarters of crap in their first game in front of we Melbourne-based supporters was very disappointing and will win them little support. There was a lot of red and white at the 'G today that went away pretty disgruntled with the team. Not nearly good enough. I hope Tony Morwood reads this.



Yep, all poor performances should be reserved for Sydney fans who
1/. get too many Swans games
2/. don't really understand the game anyway

[BAM_BAM]

I'll take this thread was created while under the sufference of the loss in genearl, but agree with the posts following. I think WE ALL deserve OUR team to play well. Bad choice of words there.

[treespirit]

Do you three choose to take EVERY comment from Melbourne as anti-Sydney?

I stick by my words. For the first game in Melbourne they should have put in a special effort. Of course Sydney based fans deserve better than that, and, thankfully for you, you will usually get it within a week or 2 after a poor performance.

They played dumb, unaccountable footy for the first game in Melbourne for more than 6 MONTHS, not 1 week. Yes, we all deserved better, but this should have been treated as more important than a 'normal' game. Who would be inspired to buy a membership after that? Let alone the effect on our ladder position, which should have been enough motivation.

Is Tony Morwood a selector? Of course not. Why would you make such an insulting comment? He is the club's man in Melbourne so I see him as representing the Melbourne members to the club, so I expect him to take our feelings to the players and the club.

Hopefully some of you Sydney-siders can stop being so sensitive.

[liz]

Originally posted by treespirit

I stick by my words. For the first game in Melbourne they should have put in a special effort. Of course Sydney based fans deserve better than that, and, thankfully for you, you will usually get it within a week or 2 after a poor performance.

They played dumb, unaccountable footy for the first game in Melbourne for more than 6 MONTHS, not 1 week. Yes, we all deserved better, but this should have been treated as more important than a 'normal' game. Who would be inspired to buy a membership after that? Let alone the effect on our ladder position, which should have been enough motivation.



So as a Swans supporter who, I presume, would prefer them to win as many games as possible and play the best footy they are capable of, would you be satisfied if they played an ordinary game in Sydney and then said as an excuse "We didn't think we needed to try very hard today because it was only a home game and our Sydney fans will get another chance to see us play next week"?

To suggest that they should have put in an "extra special effort" just because of where the game was played is surely an insult to them, to all supporters and just doesn't make sense.

FWIW I thought that the work effort was fine yesterday - it was the skills and decision making that were questionable.

[Cher]

Does it really matter at all where we live or what state the game is played in.
We all deserve to see a good game regardless of if we drive 10 mins to to get to the game or drive and fly for several hours at the cost of several hundred dollars!
And by a good game I mean played well and umpired well!

[treespirit]

Does anyone seriously believe that the team plays at 100% every week or that they don't "get themselves up" for special games? Or that some weeks they are not just going through the motions? Or that every game is viewed equally by the players?

It's a ridiculous contention to say that any person, let alone team, always has 100% focus on what they are doing. Do I wish they did. Of course . Every minute of every game (Do I wish I did? Of course. Do I? No). Do I think someone can make an extra effort if its really important? YES!

There was not 100% focus from many players yesterday, particularly a few senior ones. Some appeared to be in fairy land.

As we agree, their decision making was poor. If anyone is really determined to achieve something, then if its not working, you make the effort to change. That did not happen for 3 quarters. In the last quarter, some players made the extra effort to change. That makes it so much more frustrating. Applied for the whole game, it would have been an easy win.

It's not an insult to the players, it is human nature. Do I think this game should have been seen as more important than some others? Yes, just as I do for the Telstra Stadium games. I was angry last week too, but I wasn't there and did not even get to see it as I don't have pay TV. If the club wants to grow, it needs to win these higher profile games. Do I expect all Melbourne games to be seen the same way? No. But first game of the season in Melbourne, at the 'G, yes, that is worth an extra effort.

[dendol]

I know we have issues with our inconsistent, patchy footy, but this was evident in last weeks game against Melbourne, and also vs Geelong@SCG. Our players didnt deliberately go to the MCG to play crap football.

Fair enough, some extra effort from our midfield may have changed things, but it sounds like you are taking this poor effort from our boys as a personal affront against Melbourne supporters. If your logic is anything to go by, then our Western suburbs supporters should feel insulted and outraged last week in what was the first game at Telstra Stadium this year.

Conditions were not really conducive to our brand of footy, so maybe you should turn up a day of sunshine and no wind when the Swans next play there. ;) :p

[The Boot]

Originally posted by lizz
FWIW I thought that the work effort was fine yesterday - it was the skills and decision making that were questionable.
I agree that the effort didn't quite get the result we wanted. I've also seen too many games where the luck of the bounce, for example, has gone our way all day .. and that is a guilty pleasure for sure. Umpiring, in a close game like this, can bring the emotions to boiling point. I think the body language showd that we were under the pump. They never had the wood over us totally though. Bombers played a consistent straightforward game, and we dickd around a bit at times. I'm angered by the close loss, but forgiving of our almost win, under v.controversial circumstances.

AS for the Melb v Syd debate. Let's just drop that one, OK. We're all supporting the same team wherever we live. And no-one is more aware, or is hurting more about yesterday, than the boys themselves .. and you can take that to the bank!

[Bart]

Originally posted by treespirit
But first game of the season in Melbourne, at the 'G, yes, that is worth an extra effort.

You honestly believe this don't you.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[treespirit]

Originally posted by Bart
You honestly believe this don't you.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Yes I do.

[treespirit]

Originally posted by Bart
You honestly believe this don't you.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I don't think you, or the club, realise how annoying it is to be 1/4 of the way through the season before we get a chance to see our team.

[liz]

Originally posted by treespirit
I don't think you, or the club, realise how annoying it is to be 1/4 of the way through the season before we get a chance to see our team.

How could we not realise. We've been told often enough.

But to suggest that the team should try harder just because it's their first game in Melbourne for the year doesn't make sense.

I expect the team to do the best they possibly can everytime they run out in the Red and White. Sometimes it will be good enough, sometimes not but the idea of switching motivation on and off is anathma to me.

[anne]

The debate shouldn't be about when and when not to play their best - I think they try and we are all missing the point that they are just not a very good team. We may as well be realistic. Also I think Roos is making some glaring errors in tactics and where to play certain players ie Saddington, Goodes, Rogers etc.

[CureTheSane]

Originally posted by lizz
How could we not realise. We've been told often enough.

Although that sounds like a bitter comment, I tend to agree.

I am sick of all the Melbourne people whining about the lack of games.

Do something constructive at the end of the season when it matters, rather than now when the draw is set in stone...

[Bear]

I totally agree there should have been a better performance in what was an important game for the club.

I think some take the comments out of context a little.

Just as (say) the first ever game at Homebush needed a really big effort for 'the club', so did this one. It was a big stage against a Melbourne power, at the home of football, and in front of adoring fans that had not seen their team in 6 months.

If you can't understand that then fine but don't turn the comments into something they are not.

[robbieando]

Originally posted by Bear
I think some take the comments out of context a little.

I can only agree


Just as (say) the first ever game at Homebush needed a really big effort for 'the club', so did this one. It was a big stage against a Melbourne power, at the home of football, and in front of adoring fans that had not seen their team in 6 months.

More to the point pointed out above I don't see a problem with what Treespirit said, if its OK for the players to put in a greater effort for our first match of the season, our first home match of the season, any players milestone match, any players last game and for finals, surely they can put in a "better" effort for our first match of the season in Melbourne, without Sydney-siders getting all upset with the idea.

Though just a small point Bear, its been 8 months not 6, plus its another 2 before we see them down here again ;)


If you can't understand that then fine but don't turn the comments into something they are not.

Hear hear

[liz]

Originally posted by Bear

Just as (say) the first ever game at Homebush needed a really big effort for 'the club', so did this one. It was a big stage against a Melbourne power, at the home of football, and in front of adoring fans that had not seen their team in 6 months.

If you can't understand that then fine but don't turn the comments into something they are not.

I am really struggling to understand that. And despite my ever so slightly sarcastic comment earlier in this thread, this has nothing to do with Melbourne vs Sydney interests.

If we think that there are times when the team ought to put in an "extra special effort" the corollary is that we think it is acceptable that there are times when they consciously decide not to put in that effort. Is that really what you're saying?

The only thing I really ask of the team I support is that each time they don the Red and White in a H&A or Finals game (I'm willing to concede practice games) that they try to do the best they can - nothing more, nothing less. If it's good enough to win great, if not you move onto the next time.

Of course there are numerous factors (both physical and pyschological) that affect individual players' ability to perform to their best on any given day - but a conscious decision about how much effort they want to put in???

[ScottH]

I don't think it is anything to do with "Try Harder", It has a lot to do with confidence. And I think even tho' they are playing OK, I think they have lost the edge they had with their confidence in themselves and each other, (esp. if some are under injury clouds).

I have personally experienced, this confidence swing, in my favourite sport Golf. It was similar to the Melb. game last year where things just clicked in that last Qtr and things just got better from there. Once you shake the mental thoughts that "I'm unsure if I can" or "if he can", the team will start playing better.

Hopefully they have a good Psyche person, who can help.

Or, they can "spit" in the eye of the tiger next week, and get their confidence back, like it seemed to be against the Kangas.

Also, the Short kicking possession game was always going to come unstuck in the wet, so you can't blame the players for not "putting in a better effort for Melb fans".

[lescygnes]

well well well, somethings never change

bad umpiring against the swans AND swans supporters from both grand villes d'Australie are at each others throats. well some of them.

having grown up in Melbourne and spent a large chunk of my life in Sydney, can we all get over it????

just for the record, this former Sydney based Swans supporter loved trekking down south and mixing it with the Melbourne based supporters, some of whom I have a great deal of time for.

we all support the same club kids, lets leave the rhetoric and the loathing for people who deserve it. namely umpires, carlton and collingwood supporters.

love from sunny Vancouver
John

[treespirit]

Originally posted by lizz
How could we not realise. We've been told often enough.


Being told, and understanding what you are told, are not the same thing.

I have deliberately not commented on this before, but it is clear that some people do not understand, and that is my point on the issue.

To answer another question: Do I expect the team to put un 100% in every game? No. That would not be human. I would love to see it, of course, but I don't expect it.

[Tooth Fairy]

Originally posted by CureTheSane
Although that sounds like a bitter comment, I tend to agree.

I am sick of all the Melbourne people whining about the lack of games.

Do something constructive at the end of the season when it matters, rather than now when the draw is set in stone...
Perhaps you should practice what you preach? And if you do then may all my blessings go out to you and yours.

[Tooth Fairy]

Originally posted by Bear
I totally agree there should have been a better performance in what was an important game for the club.

I think some take the comments out of context a little.

Just as (say) the first ever game at Homebush needed a really big effort for 'the club', so did this one. It was a big stage against a Melbourne power, at the home of football, and in front of adoring fans that had not seen their team in 6 months.

If you can't understand that then fine but don't turn the comments into something they are not.
exactly! but I do admit, that when I read the tree's post, I thought "Oh **** here we go again. There will be a lot of backlash from the sympathisers."

edit: Oh and btw, I understand that the swans tried their best and it just wasn't good enough on the day alas. And I can also understand what tree is disappointed about. I guess I'm actually a listener and an empath rather than a perceived mover and a shaker :) (end of Tooth's Philosophy 101)

[CureTheSane]

Originally posted by Tooth Fairy
Perhaps you should practice what you preach? And if you do then may all my blessings go out to you and yours.

I'll tell you what...

I will email Tony Morwood at the end of the season and let him know that I want more games in Melbourne.

I will also email the AFL.

If we don't get more, I will have a whinge for a little bit, but then I will get over it and do the same at the end of next season.

Seriously, I would hate to be going through 2004 so bitter about the number of games here.

Take Geelong for instance
Iam not very impressed having to travel to Geelong, and then pay extra for a seat.
So I won't be going in all likelyhood.
But I knew that when I paid for my membership, so ther eis no point crying about it now.

[Schneidergirl]

This is driving me crazy!!!!! :rolleyes:

BTW... if Sydney have LESS home games next year, I'm positive there will be a bigger uproar from Sydney supporters than there are from Melb supporters. Since the club is a SYDNEY club!

[ScottH]

I don't mind where the games are played as long as we have the opportunity to see them, without having to subscribe to bloody Foxtel.

It would be good to have less Interstate games(.ie WA, SA) and a couple more at the G.

But we need the games in Sydney to keep the homeground advantage (when we use) and to entice more Syndey Supporters(ie. Larger Membership).

[CureTheSane]

I don't mind where the games are played as long as we have the opportunity to see them, without having to subscribe to bloody Foxtel.

too right :)

[robbieando]

Originally posted by Schneidergirl
This is driving me crazy!!!!! :rolleyes:

BTW... if Sydney have LESS home games next year, I'm positive there will be a bigger uproar from Sydney supporters than there are from Melb supporters. Since the club is a SYDNEY club!

How can you have less home games. You'll get your normal 11 home matches and that won't change. If the Bulldogs move their home match back to Melbourne what can you do, after all the Bulldogs ARE a Melbourne club.

[stellation]

bloody hell, I was really just half-joking :(

But if we are talking about the good of the club and the boys are to lift for a H&A game (looking just at the game day itself, not ladder etc.) surely it would be in the games out at Homebush to put on a good show for the largest potential membership base?

But I agree it must have been very frustrating to finally get a chance to see the boys play and watch a mediocre performance.

[treespirit]

Originally posted by hemsleys
I don't mind where the games are played as long as we have the opportunity to see them, without having to subscribe to bloody Foxtel. Something on which we can all agree!!

[BAM_BAM]

I agree with Lizz, and yes I expect them to mentally go into a game perpared to win at all costs, every time

Do you think a surgen goes into his job not 100% prepared and expecting to fail?

Regardless of what profession you belong to, you should commit yourself 100%, this may not always end up with the results you want, but if you went down swinging then that should be enough.

As I originally said, I thought it was a bad choice of words, I have no Sydney v Melbourne problem. It was Melbourne afterall who gave us our team and our game. Would I feel the same as you in the same circumstance (ie having my team relocated), the answer is yes, but my view that I expect 100% effort each time would not change, no matter where they play.

[treespirit]

On the games in Melbourne issue -

I have NEVER commented on the number of games in Melbourne before, because I don't hold the club responsible. Even in this thread, the gripe, apart from the performance, is that it took until R6 for them to get here. Scheduling is an AFL issue and they are ripping our club off.

I would have no gripe with 5 games in Melbourne, as long as none were at Optus or the cattery. When we are getting so few, we should not have to put up with these inferior, less accessible grounds.

[treespirit]

On the performance issue -

As I said previously, I DO believe that teams can put in a 'special' effort.

So, if the Footy Fairy (Billy Brownless?) came to me and said, "I will guarantee that, for any three home and away games you choose, your team will put in a very special effort", I would choose -
1. First home game
2. First Melbourne game at the 'G or Docklands
3. split round 'blockbuster' v wobbles at Homebush

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

Originally posted by treespirit
Do you three choose to take EVERY comment from Melbourne as anti-Sydney?

I stick by my words. For the first game in Melbourne they should have put in a special effort. Of course Sydney based fans deserve better than that, and, thankfully for you, you will usually get it within a week or 2 after a poor performance.

True mate. I know what you are saying in writing this, as I tried very hard to try and put myself in the shoes of the Melbourne-based Swans supporters I sat with in the Cheer Squad on Saturday. It is simply hard to fathom the emotions involved if you are not directly involved; imagine having a footy season start in April but not being able to have a slice of the proverbial cake until a month after everyone else. The sentiments I heard from most I spoke to was a mixture of resentment, frustration and overall lethargy.

Just like the atmosphere at the Dockers match at the SCG was kinda flat, being the first match of the year, the mood in the Cheer Squad was kinda the same on Saturday. Many in the Cheer Squad had not seen a match since the Dees match last August; the 'rustiness' amongst many was plain to see. It was generally as dead as a dodo and would have been worse had the ever-cheerful types from up north (and Simon from Hobart!!!!) tried to liven up proceedings just a tad.

However Tree, you have to see things from the perspective of the players. Do you honestly think they had the Victorian-based supporters in their thoughts in the lead up to the match? Many of the ex-pat Vic players might have been thinking, "Gee it is a long time since I saw my family." I myself have mused that it seemed like ages since I was last in Melbourne,watching the footy and savouring pizza (and not necessarily in that order either! :D ) But the players would most probably just have been thinking that they were going to be travelling to a big away match that just happened to be in Melbourne.

I can understand both people's vantage points, because I pretty much am a supporter of the team in both states. But the Sydneysider in me did react to what many of us (perhaps hastily) constrewed that the Melbourne-based supporters were in some way more deserving of a win against Essendon as we were against Melbourne etc etc.

But I know exactly where you are coming from TS. Sydneysiders, put yourselves in the shoes of our Melbourne fans for 30 seconds. And Imagine what it is like to have to wait until May to dust off your coat, get your scarf out of the cupboard, and even pick up your red membership cap!!! Whilst we've had them for well over a month up here. These are some of the emotions I think TreeSpirit is trying to share with us.

JF

[Nico]

Originally posted by treespirit
Do you three choose to take EVERY comment from Melbourne as anti-Sydney?

I stick by my words. For the first game in Melbourne they should have put in a special effort. Of course Sydney based fans deserve better than that, and, thankfully for you, you will usually get it within a week or 2 after a poor performance.

They played dumb, unaccountable footy for the first game in Melbourne for more than 6 MONTHS, not 1 week. Yes, we all deserved better, but this should have been treated as more important than a 'normal' game. Who would be inspired to buy a membership after that? Let alone the effect on our ladder position, which should have been enough motivation.

Is Tony Morwood a selector? Of course not. Why would you make such an insulting comment? He is the club's man in Melbourne so I see him as representing the Melbourne members to the club, so I expect him to take our feelings to the players and the club.

I am with you Treespirit. I can't see how anyone could take your comments as derogatory towards Sydney. It is funny isn't it that we in Melbourne always seem to be on the wrong end of the stick from interstaters. Sydney people love to call us Mexicans and want to get off on always trying to show they are superior to Melbournians in all aspects of life - who cares who is better than the next.

Croweaters just hate us because we are simply Victorian, for whatever reasons, who knows. And WA is not far behind them.

When it comes to the topic of footy, you rarely hear a Victorian bagging an intertstate side just because they are from interstate. We just love talking footy down here. As a matter of fact Melbournians tend to have a soft spot for the Swans, Eddie excluded. We embrace the national comp because it is our national game that all states can share in.

So lets not let this interstate rivalry mar this site. For goodness sake we are all Swans supporters, all Aussies and all love our game.

And I agree we played dumb unaccountable footy. What happened to our running in numbers and making a contest.

Hopefully some of you Sydney-siders can stop being so sensitive.

[treespirit]

Thanks JF for your thoughtful comments.


Originally posted by JF_Bay22_SCG
However Tree, you have to see things from the perspective of the players. Do you honestly think they had the Victorian-based supporters in their thoughts in the lead up to the match? My point exactly! I'm sure they did not, but I think they should have.

[lescygnes]

why dont you all put yourself in Cher's shoes. Only ONE game where she lives all year, if that!

and none for me up here!! he he he

Cheers
John

ps-i'll give it a month before this Syd v Melb thing starts up again on here......

[Bart]

Originally posted by treespirit
On the performance issue -

As I said previously, I DO believe that teams can put in a 'special' effort.

So, if the Footy Fairy (Billy Brownless?) came to me and said, "I will guarantee that, for any three home and away games you choose, your team will put in a very special effort", I would choose -
1. First home game
2. First Melbourne game at the 'G or Docklands
3. split round 'blockbuster' v wobbles at Homebush

If I felt that this was true for a second and that this is how the players were being mentally prepared for a game then I'd give it all away.

It is ridiculous to suggest that the players should put in any different level of effort for this weekend's crucial match against Richmond compared to last weeks match.

I can't believe some of you subscribe to this nonsense.

[ScottH]

Agree fully. If players don't go out to every game with the attitude that they <S> can </S> will win this game they should hang up there boots now.

Steve Waugh would hang his head in shame at this type of attitude. He never quit and would not let his team quit, no matter what level.

I heard a story when his local team had there backs to the wall in a game. He told them "if anyone thinks that we can't win, don't bother coming out of the change rooms". Surprisingly they won.

I think AFL players at that level should be out there to give 110% every game, or should be just players.

[treespirit]

Originally posted by hemsleys
I heard a story when his local team had there backs to the wall in a game. He told them "if anyone thinks that we can't win, don't bother coming out of the change rooms". Surprisingly they won. Which proves my point. They made the extra mental effort, because they had a reason to give them extra focus.

This is all about the mind. I don't suggest that the physical effort or preparation isn't the same, I am saying that it is possible to, in fact inevitable that, different games are treated differently by players in their minds.

[treespirit]

Originally posted by Bart
If I felt that this was true for a second and that this is how the players were being mentally prepared for a game then I'd give it all away. Give it away then, because you'll be shocked to learn that the players are humans, not robots.

We hear coaches talk about using past performances as part of mental preparation. Motivational speakers are used. Different things are tried when teams are in a slump. Players talk about certain games being particularly important to them or the team. Its part of the game.

I never suggested that teams are prepared to fail, but that sometimes they are more than normally focussed on success.

[Bart]

Originally posted by treespirit
Which proves my point. They made the extra mental effort, because they had a reason to give them extra focus.

This is all about the mind. I don't suggest that the physical effort or preparation isn't the same, I am saying that it is possible to, in fact inevitable that, different games are treated differently by players in their minds.

Treespirit you are clutching at straws here. Of course individual's mental preparation is going to differ from match to match, as is their physical condition.

What you are saying is that the entire team should pick and choose which matches to be really up for, particularly the first match in Melbourne. This of course is nonsense.

[Old Royboy]

Originally posted by Bart
Of course individual's mental preparation is going to differ from match to match, as is their physical condition.


I believe our mental state is why we have underperformed this year (not just last week) so far. Look at our imm past. Last year, no expectation, new coach and we went for it. This year pressure of expectation, coach and players are feeling it, and it shows. The best coaches are those who can unlock their players minds and have them at their mental peak when it counts. Roosy is finding that it is no easy gig, but I have confidence that he will find the answers. He is still a rookie coach, and a bloody smart one at that.

[Bart]

Originally posted by Old Royboy
I believe our mental state is why we have underperformed this year (not just last week) so far. Look at our imm past. Last year, no expectation, new coach and we went for it. This year pressure of expectation, coach and players are feeling it, and it shows. The best coaches are those who can unlock their players minds and have them at their mental peak when it counts. Roosy is finding that it is no easy gig, but I have confidence that he will find the answers. He is still a rookie coach, and a bloody smart one at that.

Agree. Someone mentioned earlier that we seem to play up or down to the perceived level of the opposition. And the mental side of coaching must be tougher than the physical side. I believe Leigh Matthews is the master at this and the Lions last quarter against us in the prelim final is probably an example of side that was mentally tough enough.

[treespirit]

Originally posted by Bart
Treespirit you are clutching at straws here. Of course individual's mental preparation is going to differ from match to match, as is their physical condition.

What you are saying is that the entire team should pick and choose which matches to be really up for, particularly the first match in Melbourne. This of course is nonsense. No, I just have a point of view that you are not interested in attempting to understand. That's OK, but to state that my view is nonsense, is, of course, nonsense. I just see it differently to you.

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

Originally posted by lescygnes
why dont you all put yourself in Cher's shoes. Only ONE game where she lives all year, if that!

and none for me up here!! he he he

Cheers
John

ps-i'll give it a month before this Syd v Melb thing starts up again on here......

If you were here JM, I'd have given it 15 minutes. And 40 seconds if you and Charlie are posting. ;)

Have fun. And stay out of Stanley Park, won't you! :D

JF

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

Originally posted by treespirit
Thanks JF for your thoughtful comments.

My point exactly! I'm sure they did not, but I think they should have.

Hence the reason for developing the club's operation in Melbourne. If we have a toll-free link direct to Driver Ave as opposed to a ridgey-didge Melbourne-based office, the club will disenfranchise it Melbourne based supporters more than it already has done in the past.

As seen by Treespirit's post, there are highly unique and specific needs of the Swans' Melbourne-based marketplace. Having somebody who is FOOTBALL-SAVVY and passionate about the club is crucial to catering to these needs.

The next step is to get serious SA and Qld-based supporter communities mobilised. Especially with many expat Sydneysiders moving up to northern NSW/SE Qld, there is a pretty much stagnant pool of supporters who the club can not only make feel involved in the club, but draw additional income from. The same goes for SA. WA looks to be pretty much there, which is great!

JF

[Cher]

Originally posted by lescygnes
[B]why dont you all put yourself in Cher's shoes. Only ONE game where she lives all year, if that!

and none for me up here!! he he he

Cheers
John


Luckily I have a credit card and I'm not afraid of flying!

[lescygnes]

JF wrote:

If you were here JM, I'd have given it 15 minutes. And 40 seconds if you and Charlie are posting.

and Cher wrote:

Luckily I have a credit card and I'm not afraid of flying!

my reply....

hey JF, give me some credit here!!

at least this debate, for once, has turned positive. im just over it personally having been down this road more often than the Hume Hwy.

And Cher, Qantas and Virgin thank you for your patronage, although I think half the reason is the breakfasts at the Californian Caf? on Oxford St!!!!!

Staying away from Stanley Park and Wreck Beach....
John

[Cher]

Originally posted by lescygnes
JF wrote:

And Cher, Qantas and Virgin thank you for your patronage, although I think half the reason is the breakfasts at the Californian Caf? on Oxford St!!!!!

John

I haven't been to the Californian once this year!

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

Originally posted by Cher
I haven't been to the Californian once this year!

Which is just as well, because it has been gutted to the ground.

U are coming on Sunday? Anyone up from Melbourne beside the bloody Bluenose from Mulgrave? ;-)

JF

PS:- Anyone up to organise an unofficial RWO gathering, seeing that it's Robbie's birthday?

[robbieando]

Originally posted by JF_Bay22_SCG
Anyone up from Melbourne beside the bloody Bluenose from Mulgrave? ;-)

Yep this Bluenose from Wheelers Hill;)

[Bear]

Originally posted by lizz
If we think that there are times when the team ought to put in an "extra special effort" the corollary is that we think it is acceptable that there are times when they consciously decide not to put in that effort. Is that really what you're saying?


Errr... no.

Firstly, if you are going to put words in quotation marks, make sure you actually quote the words I used. Otherwise you could be rightly accused of trying to distort what I said.

Secondly, don't put words in my mouth re "the collaroy" of my statement.

FYI, if you have played a VERY physical sport like Australian football, you would understand that it is not ALWAYS possibly to give 100%. It's actually quite unnatural for humans to willingly put their health on the line to take possession of a pig-skin-covered bladder. It's a sport that can have you on a great high one week and in hospital the next. My point here is that, as I found out today, the 21 guys you play football with are not ALL at their best every week, and sometimes you lose games because of this.

Do you not find it hard to give 100% EVERY time you go to work??? What makes footballers any different?

It would be great if we lived in your utopian, politically-correct world, where robots played in the red and white, but I don't think it's going to happen.

The original thread statement was about putting in a big effort for the occasion, and I stand by my, and the author's, point that it WAS a big occasion. Again, if you get offended by some wanting a really big effort for particular big matches, whether they be in Syd, Melb, or Perth, then you are failing to understand the human element of sport IMO.

[liz]

Originally posted by Bear
Errr... no.

Firstly, if you are going to put words in quotation marks, make sure you actually quote the words I used. Otherwise you could be rightly accused of trying to distort what I said.

Secondly, don't put words in my mouth re "the collaroy" of my statement.

When I quote someone I use the quotation function. I use quotation marks (without a specific reference) for emphasis.

The corollary was mine. I was not attributing it to you. And to me it seems a logical extension of your suggestion.



FYI, if you have played a VERY physical sport like Australian football, you would understand that it is not ALWAYS possibly to give 100%. It's actually quite unnatural for humans to willingly put their health on the line to take possession of a pig-skin-covered bladder. It's a sport that can have you on a great high one week and in hospital the next. My point here is that, as I found out today, the 21 guys you play football with are not ALL at their best every week, and sometimes you lose games because of this.

Do you not find it hard to give 100% EVERY time you go to work??? What makes footballers any different?

It would be great if we lived in your utopian, politically-correct world, where robots played in the red and white, but I don't think it's going to happen.

The original thread statement was about putting in a big effort for the occasion, and I stand by my, and the author's, point that it WAS a big occasion. Again, if you get offended by some wanting a really big effort for particular big matches, whether they be in Syd, Melb, or Perth, then you are failing to understand the human element of sport IMO.

I did not state that I expect players to be at their best every week. Indeed, I acknowledged that there are a number of factors, both physical and psychological, that affect players' abilities to play to their best on any particular week.

What I find hard to believe is that players make a conscious decision ahead of each game as to whether they are going to play the best they can. That has consistently been my point throughout this thread.

If you believe otherwise that's fine by me.

[Bear]

Originally posted by lizz
When I quote someone I use the quotation function. I use quotation marks (without a specific reference) for emphasis.

The corollary was mine. I was not attributing it to you. And to me it seems a logical extension of your suggestion.

I did not state that I expect players to be at their best every week. Indeed, I acknowledged that there are a number of factors, both physical and psychological, that affect players' abilities to play to their best on any particular week.

What I find hard to believe is that players make a conscious decision ahead of each game as to whether they are going to play the best they can. That has consistently been my point throughout this thread.

If you believe otherwise that's fine by me.

You may wish to re-read my post, as you did not understand which quote I was talking about. At no point did I use the words "extra special effort" which YOU put in quotes attributing to me. Comprende??

No-one, at ANY time has said that ANYONE makes a "conscious" decision to NOT put in their best effort PRIOR to a game. This is your fanciful mis-quoting and collaroying(??) (i.e. twisting) of comments.

Whether you accept it or not, certain games are more important than others and fans have a right to expect that players ensure they are 'up'.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Bear
You may wish to re-read my post, as you did not understand which quote I was talking about. At no point did I use the words "extra special effort" which YOU put in quotes attributing to me. Comprende??

I don't think you are understanding. Liz was using quotation marks for emphasis (she probably should have used ' ' instead), not as a quote of what you said. The 'extra special effort' comment was a reflection of what TreeSpirit and you were saying - he said "special effort" and "extra effort" and you said "big effort."

As far 'special efforts' for games go, people talk about this a bit, like for milestone games and similar, and I understand the sentiment, and you can appreciate that on some occasions they feel, or should feel, a bit more motivated. However, I think they should simply put in their best effort every week. After all, they only have to do it 22-26 times per year!!

I do agree with one of the original comments that for their first game in Melbourne it was a pretty crap effort.

[Mike_B]

Well it seems there was a better effort put in last week than this week - pity last week's was ordinary and today's was even worse!

[Go Swannies]

I reckon the Swannies will win a flag before this thread dies. Then can all the Sydney based fans bitch about the fact that our Grand Final was played at the MCG? (Though, after today, global warming - or continental drift - will have the MCG under water before we have a flag.)

[treespirit]

Originally posted by Mike_B
Well it seems there was a better effort put in last week than this week - pity last week's was ordinary and today's was even worse! Maybe they WERE up last week, and I didn't notice.

[ScottH]

At least last week the had a good last Qtr.