Season is OVER. Forget about finals

[Doctor J.]

Its over, Gone. Done for.

Oh well not like we haven't seen it all before. As Swans supporters we should be used to the season being over early. At least we got to Round 8 this year before its all over.

God I wonder why I follow this team.

Mid table mediocrity experts. Thats all we are. Would not know how to pursue the ultimate prize. Been making up the numbers for 70 years, and on todays and last weeks showing, will make up the numbers for the next 70.

[NMWBloods]

Yes, I know the frustration.

I think we will still make finals, but simply making up numbers.

The bigger problem for me is that I was hoping to see some promising signs this year, pointing towards a good year in 2005. However, all I see is weakness around the ground. There are only a few positives in our team as I see it at the moment.

[Doctor J.]

You are an optimist.

[NMWBloods]

People rarely say that to me!! ;)

[Doctor J.]

Just wondering what you see as positives.

[DST]

Originally posted by NMWBloods


I think we will still make finals, but simply making up numbers.

I don't see making up the numbers as such a bad thing.

Sure we all want to give the cup a shake, but if it means that some of our youngsters (Bevan, James, Buchanan, Powell etc) get a taste of a finals game then it can only help in their development for the future.

It also shows that as a club, when the chips are down that we take pride in our performance and strive to win enough games to get into the 8.

We all laugh at teams like Hawthorn and Richmond becuase when they have no hope they always drop away.

DST
:D

[Doctor J.]

Originally posted by DST
I don't see making up the numbers as such a bad thing.

Sure we all want to give the cup a shake, but if it means that some of our youngsters (Bevan, James, Buchanan, Powell etc) get a taste of a finals game then it can only help in their development for the future.

It also shows that as a club, when the chips are down that we take pride in our performance and strive to win enough games to get into the 8.

We all laugh at teams like Hawthorn and Richmond becuase when they have no hope they always drop away.

DST
:D

Thats fine if we make the finals. My contention is that we wont even do that, and in a 16 team competition when you are in the bottom 50%m that IS making up the numbers ie wasted years.

[DST]

Originally posted by Doctor J.
Thats fine if we make the finals. My contention is that we wont even do that, and in a 16 team competition when you are in the bottom 50%m that IS making up the numbers ie wasted years.

Whether we make the finals or not was not going to be decided by todays game.

The next three weeks is the end game. Beat the Dog's and Dawks at home and we are 5 and 5 with the big one against the Aints at home the week after.

DST
:D

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Doctor J.
Just wondering what you see as positives.

I think you perhaps misunderstood my intent - I have concerns over the team and can only see a few positives at this stage.

There are only a few:

- the form of Hall
- some talented younger players (eg: Goodes, Davis)
- we aren't too far off opposition teams

Talent-wise our team will continue to struggle(ie: mid table) for a long time unless we develop some very effective game plans (more than one), our commitment and effort remain solid and constant, or we manage to find a few guns.

[hardluck_harry]

I wouldn't say the season is completely over yet.

Even if we don't make the eight, individual player need to show signs of improvement for the club to hang their hat on for next year, a worrying sign is we've only seen improvement in three or four players so far.

[Doctor J.]

Originally posted by NMWBloods

There are only a few:

- the form of Hall
- some talented younger players (eg: Goodes, Davis)
- we aren't too far off opposition teams



They are the obvious, although will disagree on Davis (good ordinary) and how close we are to the top sides.

I can't think of any other positives at this stage Very thin list of positives.

[liz]

Originally posted by DST
Whether we make the finals or not was not going to be decided by todays game.



Agreed. Regardless of how the match panned out, if we had won today it would have been a "steal" in that you hope, not expect, to beat the WA teams over there.

If anyone thinks the season is over, I suggest they get off the Swans and go follow someone else. Better still, start following netball or tenpin bowling.

Are we going to win the premiership this year? Highly, highly unlikely.

Will we make the finals? Still in with a decent chance but need to start playing more consistently throughout a game.

If we make the finals, could we win one (or even two)? Sure, why not?

Might we watch a still inexperienced coach grow, try out a few new things, get to learn a bit more about the capabilities of his squad, develop new match day strategies?

Might we watch the rapid growth of a very raw rookie FB who has far more guts than most of us could imagine, is being thrown some huge tasks and is keeping his head held high?

Might we see the emergence of a tough, gutsy blonde backpocket / midfielder who may get beaten sometimes but never drops his head?

Might we be excited by some brawn and brilliance from one of the in-form key forwards, and another who can return after a lengthy lay-off and spark some 'magic' into the team straight away?

Might we see Pebbles develop into a consistent, quality half-forward flanker?

Might we witness the class and poise of McVeigh as he gets more experience and confidence?

I don't know the answers to these but I know what I'm hoping for.

I also know why it is that I follow the footy and love my Swans. What about the rest of you?

[Doctor J.]

Originally posted by lizz
If anyone thinks the season is over, I suggest they get off the Swans and go follow someone else. Better still, start following netball or tenpin bowling.



Its opinions like this that will ensure that this club remains mid table mediocrity FOREVER.

Don't know about you Lizz, but I'm here to win a premiership, seeing all that other stuff is just froth on a beer glass. So yes, the season IS OVER

Its the mentality of "Oh great we won a Bronlow Medal" This club uses Brownlow Medals as drink coasters, the trouble is we aint got any cups to put on top of the coasters, which is what it is all about

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by lizz
If anyone thinks the season is over, I suggest they get off the Swans and go follow someone else. Better still, start following netball or tenpin bowling.

Why?


I also know why it is that I follow the footy and love my Swans. What about the rest of you?

Well you managed to name 6 players, but what about the rest of the team. Small victories like seeing a few good players in a team that generally underperforms doesn't really cut it.

[SXP]

Lizz, you've always been an optimist, but that is OK. For you living in Sydney there's hardly any other choice to teh Swans. For us living in Melbourne that is different. For this year I'll put Swans on a low priority and attend the games I'll find more interesting. Sure, I'm still going to follow Swans how they're doing, but doing a die-hard fan thing, forget it. They don't deserve it. I'm not a footy expert to judge a coach or players, but I can see an underachiever when I see one and the Swans team is one of them. This might sound very harsh, but in real life people loose jobs for underperforming. Think about it.
And, to be quite honest, Lizz, what kind of word of encouragement would you have for die-hard fans to follow the Swans, beside the old-fationed saying about the "true believers". Whatever that might be. The only power I have is the power of money and who I support, and believe me I'll think very strongly about it in upcoming years.

[liz]

Originally posted by Doctor J.
Its opinions like this that will ensure that this club remains mid table mediocrity FOREVER.

Don't know about you Lizz, but I'm here to win a premiership, seeing all that other stuff is just froth on a beer glass. So yes, the season IS OVER



The word I'd like to respond to that is not suitable for polite company.

As I said before, go follow someone else if winning a premiership is ALL you think counts.

I want the Swans to win one as much as the next man, woman or dog on this site. And I'm not deluding myself that performances such as we've seen in the last few weeks are indications that we're close at the moment.

But, for me at least, it's as much about the journey.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't feel frustrated or disappointed. Just stating that I know why it is I follow my footy - and its for the journey and the stories along the way. The weekend I spent last year in Adelaide with Bron and Swannette last year, the weekend in Melbourne in Sept 1996, even just events like seeing us stampede back to draw with the Bombers in 1996, the wonderful evenings when we've pounded the Roos into the ground, the ANZAC day fightback last year, Schneider's goal against the Pies last year. These are all wonderful memories etched in my mind that mean more to me, personally, than some piece of silverware stuck in a cabinet somewhere.

For as long as there's a chance that I'll have another one of these to add to the collection, 2004 sure as hell is NOT over for me.

The rest of you can make your own choice.

[hardluck_harry]

Originally posted by lizz

Might we watch a still inexperienced coach grow, try out a few new things, get to learn a bit more about the capabilities of his squad, develop new match day strategies?



Just hope the Board and the supporters back Roosy to the hilt while we're going through a lean period. As for the capabilities of the squad, Roos' has always said we need our best 22 on the park, like every other team except Brisbane...he wasn't lying. :)

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by lizz
As I said before, go follow someone else if winning a premiership is ALL you think counts.

When you've followed for a long time, it's just about the only thing left to experience, and it would be nice to get just one. That is essentially the point in following professional sports team.


But, for me at least, it's as much about the journey.
The Swans' journey is akin to crawling from Melbourne to Darwin!!

[hammo]

Originally posted by lizz


But, for me at least, it's as much about the journey.



70+ years is a bloody long journey.

I don't think you can be serious if you don't feel any sense of resentment / jealousy / depression on grand final day if it isn't your team holding the cup at the end of the day!??

[Go Swannies]

I'm depressed like every else. But most of my frustration is that we are so close. If we were the Saints of the past decades I'd just go back to motorcycle racing. But I can see that just a slightly better game plan and execution and we'd be there. The bizarre thing is everyone else's expectations. Oh my god, we've lost at Subiaco - who hasn't?

Right now I', feeling that Paul Roos has unlimited freedom. We won't win the GF. So try different plans and players. I laso draw great strength from out good players - both new and old. I don't expect September to be relevant for us so just see what works and what doesn't. And I look forward to 2005. It was always meant to be a long term plan for the team, players and coach. Go for it. Do the weird things that are so much fun - beat the Aints and fold to the Hawks. You all play like you have too much on your shoulders. It's just a game and tonight I'm prepared to let go.

Cheers Shniedergirl - we yelled and carried on at the pub but obviously we weren't heard in WA.

Jules - have a good flight home - and I hope John finds that continental shift has put closer to Sydney closer to Perth on the way home.

For everyone else, see you at the SCG next weekend. Drinks afterwards?

[Doctor J.]

Originally posted by lizz
The word I'd like to respond to that is not suitable for polite company.

As I said before, go follow someone else if winning a premiership is ALL you think counts.

I want the Swans to win one as much as the next man, woman or dog on this site. And I'm not deluding myself that performances such as we've seen in the last few weeks are indications that we're close at the moment.

But, for me at least, it's as much about the journey.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't feel frustrated or disappointed. Just stating that I know why it is I follow my footy - and its for the journey and the stories along the way. The weekend I spent last year in Adelaide with Bron and Swannette last year, the weekend in Melbourne in Sept 1996, even just events like seeing us stampede back to draw with the Bombers in 1996, the wonderful evenings when we've pounded the Roos into the ground, the ANZAC day fightback last year, Schneider's goal against the Pies last year. These are all wonderful memories etched in my mind that mean more to me, personally, than some piece of silverware stuck in a cabinet somewhere.

For as long as there's a chance that I'll have another one of these to add to the collection, 2004 sure as hell is NOT over for me.

The rest of you can make your own choice.

Oh puhlease, but I'm sorry, you just don't get it.

Just what is it that we have WON.

-----------
.............

You fill in the gaps

Prelim final berths mean diddly squat

We've all got memories about certain things, one of my favourites is us coming back from 4 goals down in time on and beating the Pies in a game at the Lake Oval, but you know what, it means NOTHING. In the scheme of things I aint got no silverware in the cabinet to admire, and this year has gone down that oh so familiar path of the last 70, sorry 71. So forgive me if I don't share your optimism.

If winning isn't everything, and winning premierships at this level isn't what this club is about, then why the f--- are we even in the bloody competition. This aint the friggin North Shore under 9's. This is the premier sporting competion in the country. You are in it to win it ther is NO other reason for being in it. If you are not, you are just making up the numbers. End of story

As for the journey. Its overrated believe me, and I can assure you it didn't start in 96.

[dimelb]

After last year we expected at least as good, if not better. Let's remember that Roos said it was a rebuilding exercise for the next couple of years. There have been promising signs despite the losses. And although we don't have the depth I thought, it's still not bad. The main reason for our current status can be expressed in one word - INJURIES! So let's see how we go over the next few weeks as they all start to come back. Magic did OK today. The worry is Goodes... But the rest will make a difference. I can't wait to see Schauble and James together in the backline. And Davis start to fire again. We're not going to the GF this year, we still have a good chance of making the finals, and even if we're just making up the numbers at this stage, we will see the benefit of it later. And yes, I do want a premiership!

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Go Swannies
I'm depressed like every else.

I'm not depressed. I'm just resigned to the same old Swans for this year... nah, that probably does make me a bit depressed, or maybe simply numb.

Dimelb has a good point that injuries have hurt us this year, and I suspect that our lack of injuries last year probably made us look a little better than what we were, so a fall back is not that surprising. I'm just disappointed that it's fallen quite as much as it has, and particularly with the performance of a few players.

[Diego]

Originally posted by lizz
The word I'd like to respond to that is not suitable for polite company.

As I said before, go follow someone else if winning a premiership is ALL you think counts.

I want the Swans to win one as much as the next man, woman or dog on this site. And I'm not deluding myself that performances such as we've seen in the last few weeks are indications that we're close at the moment.

But, for me at least, it's as much about the journey.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't feel frustrated or disappointed. Just stating that I know why it is I follow my footy - and its for the journey and the stories along the way. The weekend I spent last year in Adelaide with Bron and Swannette last year, the weekend in Melbourne in Sept 1996, even just events like seeing us stampede back to draw with the Bombers in 1996, the wonderful evenings when we've pounded the Roos into the ground, the ANZAC day fightback last year, Schneider's goal against the Pies last year. These are all wonderful memories etched in my mind that mean more to me, personally, than some piece of silverware stuck in a cabinet somewhere.

For as long as there's a chance that I'll have another one of these to add to the collection, 2004 sure as hell is NOT over for me.

The rest of you can make your own choice.

Thats a pretty selfish attitude you take there.

A journey to you and a romantic one at that, but for some here they have been following this club way before you knew what AFL was and have seen the same mediocre served year in year out. Promises one year heart ache the next. The journey ended a long time for most of us...for you it has just started, congrats.

I hope you are not proud that the club has won didly squat in over 70 years (not counting the the 82 night flag).

[Go Swannies]

Originally posted by Diego
Thats a pretty selfish attitude you take there.

A journey to you and a romantic one at that, but for some here they have been following this club way before you knew what AFL was and have seen the same mediocre served year in year out. Promises one year heart ache the next. The journey ended a long time for most of us...for you it has just started, congrats.

I hope you are not proud that the club has won didly squat in over 70 years (not counting the the 82 night flag).

Jeez, let everyone get what they can from the game and the club! Unless you are very, very old I guess you don't follow the Swannies for the premierships. either? Remember Sydney hasn't been going so long (but I hear it has links to some Melbourne suburb with overpriced real estate . . .) so it may take a while before it dominates in AFL as it does in just about everything else.

Incidentally, are the umpires this year doing there best to ensure that there is no batton change from the Lions, with a salary cap advantage, to the Swans, with a similar advantage??

[robbieando]

Originally posted by lizz
The word I'd like to respond to that is not suitable for polite company.

As I said before, go follow someone else if winning a premiership is ALL you think counts.

I want the Swans to win one as much as the next man, woman or dog on this site. And I'm not deluding myself that performances such as we've seen in the last few weeks are indications that we're close at the moment.

But, for me at least, it's as much about the journey.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't feel frustrated or disappointed. Just stating that I know why it is I follow my footy - and its for the journey and the stories along the way. The weekend I spent last year in Adelaide with Bron and Swannette last year, the weekend in Melbourne in Sept 1996, even just events like seeing us stampede back to draw with the Bombers in 1996, the wonderful evenings when we've pounded the Roos into the ground, the ANZAC day fightback last year, Schneider's goal against the Pies last year. These are all wonderful memories etched in my mind that mean more to me, personally, than some piece of silverware stuck in a cabinet somewhere.

For as long as there's a chance that I'll have another one of these to add to the collection, 2004 sure as hell is NOT over for me.

The rest of you can make your own choice.

Lizz, I can understand what you are saying in a way. Yes the wins and expirences you quoted above are satisfying, BUT at the end of the day to me, I would trade every good memory I have watching the Swans to taste a Swans Premiership. The only reason I keep supporting the Swans year in and year out, is to one day enjoy a premiership victory at the MCG.

At the end of the day a win like the ANZAC Day game, or our final win against Port, or even the day we beat Collingwood with only 15 fit men on the field is what hooks me in some more. That gives me a taste of what I'm after and thats a premiership.

Lizz if your only supporting the Swans to expirence great win and enjoy them more than silverware, then what the point in supporting the team??? After isn't the premiership the be all to end all in this code?

[Bear]

Originally posted by lizz
If anyone thinks the season is over, I suggest they get off the Swans and go follow someone else. Better still, start following netball or tenpin bowling.

Please explain??

I think the season is over but am not going to abandon my team. I suggest you follow the team your way leave others to follow their way.

[hardluck_harry]

Funnily enough I want the Swans to win the premiership. But then I want the Swans to dominate the competition, so I'll be able to be smartass, arrogant @@@@@ to all my mates who support Essendon, Collingwood and Carlton...cause I've had to put up with their **** for almost 40 years. :)

[liz]

Originally posted by robbieando
Lizz, I can understand what you are saying in a way. Yes the wins and expirences you quoted above are satisfying, BUT at the end of the day to me, I would trade every good memory I have watching the Swans to taste a Swans Premiership. The only reason I keep supporting the Swans year in and year out, is to one day enjoy a premiership victory at the MCG.



I guess that we differ then a bit Robbie. Although maybe not, going by your final sentence in the above paragraph. The key is that you want to enjoy the experience. That's what I think it's all about. If you fell asleep for a year, woke up and were told that Sydney had won the premiership, how would you feel? How long would it take for the glow to wear off of looking in an AFL Almanac and seeing another premiership by the Swans' name if you didn't have the experiences to go with it.

And for those that say that memories of the 2003 Qualifying Final are empty because we didn't win the premiership, maybe they are for you but not for me.

One of my lasting memories from last year came towards the end of the PF against the Lions when our dreams were in shatters. I was sitting next to a chap - an Englishman - who is a mate of a member I go to matches with and started coming along to the odd game a couple of years ago for the afternoon in the sun and the beer. He started coming more and more often, and started getting more interested in the actual game. I looked over at him at the end of that game and his head was hung and he was crying. OK, so as a recent convert he has experienced none of what a lot of you long time followers have. But at that time I realised he was completely bitten by the bug - the bug that has me bad - and in a strange way that was a fantastic feeling, to see someone else start to love the team in the way that I love them.

I am not in the least trying to tell anyone how they should support their team. All my comments on this thread have been very personal ones and I, admit, a bit emotional. It just saddened me to read some people deeming this season to be over already when there is so much that still might unfold, even if it is not a premiership.

Sure, a premiership is the ultimate goal. For me, the hope, belief and expectation that a premiership will one day arrive are the rich emotions that keep me interested in the game, and the small experiences along the way are the fuel that keeps that belief alight.

But hey, that's just me. Each to their own.

[NMWBloods]

Your point is absolutely right in one way Lizz - to enjoy something truly, you need to experience the journey and relish the sweetness of victory. Otherwise it really doesn't mean so much.

However, the problem is that the journey is just soooo long and with no real end in sight.

The journey itself is only truly enjoyable if it eventually reaches its destination.

[liz]

Originally posted by NMWBloods

However, the problem is that the journey is just soooo long and with no real end in sight.

Yup, I'm not trying to contradict anyone's frustration or disappointment. Just saddens me to see anyone, especially fellow Swannies lose the hope that we will get there one day.



The journey itself is only truly enjoyable if it eventually reaches its destination.

Just think of it as an ultra ultra marathon. Some people seem to find them enjoyable ;)

[dendol]

I've only been following the team since '96. Im pretty sure I dont understand the pain and frustration that you older heads feel year after year. Im with Lizz here in that we still have time to turn it around this year, where even though a premiership is an unlikely event, there is still 2/3 of the season to see where we are really at.

For mine, we really arent that far off the mark. These close losses hurt - I dont deny that we can draw parallels with 2002 - but Im not willing to give up on the season yet. Two very winnable games next will get us back on track, taking us to a huge clash with the Saints. If winning is what this Swans team needs to build up confidence, then Im willing to give it a few weeks yet.

All the doom and gloom talk after the Richmond loss last week was warranted, but we saw our team play hard and much more direct this week, and with only one ruckman. The current reigning triple premiership team also couldnt make it over the line when they played there a few weeks ago.

THE SEASON IS NOT OVER YET.

[Captain]

I can't believe all of this negative crap.

We have lost a few games and yet are still in the 8. We have a game against the Hawks next weekend. If we win that then we will be a little more comfortable.

I remember going to games in the early nineties where we were getting flogged every week. Yet I still stuck with them and hoped one day we would succeed. That made 96 more special to me than anything. We have lost 4 games in a row and people are bleating already, I would loved to have seen your attitude back in the nineties.

We still haven't one a cup, but when we do I know I will live with that memory forever. Our time will come, and when it does we need to make the most of it.

[hammo]

I think the disappointment stems from the fact that this team has so much potential but is blatently under-performing. To promise so much last year and then transform into a fumbling mess this year is hard to accept. We should be a top 4 side - I think we have every right to be disappointed with how this season is panning out.

[liz]

Originally posted by hammo
We should be a top 4 side - I think we have every right to be disappointed with how this season is panning out.

Disappointed? Certainly
Surprised? Arguable.

We lost to the Lions at the Gabba. How many teams have won their over the past three years?

We lost to Essendon in Melbourne. How many years since we beat them there?

We lost to the Eagles at Subi. How many travelling teams have won over in the west in recent years? As the Age report said, Sydney needed everything to go their way to win this match, and losing a ruckman ( and one of the team's potentially most potent weapons) in the first 5 seconds of the game, plus having our "Captain" knocked out after doing a pretty good job on their captain for two and a half quarters didn't help. (Anyone notice how influential Cousins was after Kirk got knocked out?)

Sure, getting beaten at home by struggling Richmond was not in the script but essentially we were beaten by a sensational performance from one player who has the highest average goals per game record in the AFL so far this season and who showed again yesterday that he is in awesome form.

We all knew that depth wasn't our strong point and we've been without our one experienced key position defender all year, and our forward line has been knocked around by injuries to O'Loughlin, Davis and Schneider.

None of these are excuses. A premiership contender needs to have the answers. But even if one believes we are one of a pack chasing the likes of the Lions and Saints with the potential to match them if everything goes our way, it is not entirely surprising that results haven't panned out the way we'd hoped.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Captain
I remember going to games in the early nineties where we were getting flogged every week. Yet I still stuck with them and hoped one day we would succeed. That made 96 more special to me than anything. We have lost 4 games in a row and people are bleating already, I would loved to have seen your attitude back in the nineties.

Problem I have with these comments is you are directing them at people who have followed the Swans since at least the 70s, so we've seen more than our fair share of losses. And yet we're still here hoping aren't we!


We still haven't one a cup, but when we do I know I will live with that memory forever. Our time will come, and when it does we need to make the most of it.

What if it doesn't...?


Originally posted by Lizz
Just think of it as an ultra ultra marathon. Some people seem to find them enjoyable ;)

Amazing how they do - I think it's like torture in that when it finishes the relief is a real high!! ;)

[Bron]

Ditto Liz.

[monopoly19]

The Swans are it for me - there is no other team. 50 years from now and without another premiership cup, I'll still be there. I'm with Lizz - while the premiership is the obvious goal each year, nothing detracts from some of the other experiences of watching the team.

For me it's the little things, like watching Buchanan yesterday after being delisted at the end of last year, or seeing Jamesy return to senior football last year, or watching Schwatta crying as he did a lap of the SCG after that Geelong game, or reading Charles Edmonston's toast, or being there for round 22 of 2002 when two of our absolute greats retired (without a premiership), or watching Micky after he kicked his first goal yesterday, or watching the Brownlow last year.

Not to say I wouldn't love a premiership, but it's not everything in footy (and yeah, I know most of you disagree).

[Doctor J.]

Originally posted by monopoly19
The Swans are it for me - there is no other team. [/QUOTE

Never said they aren't it for me either. Just facing reality here, rather than dreaming. This year is done and dusted. Doesn't mean I will give them up or not renew my membership, (club donation) next year.

Lived the journey for ages and experienced more than my fair share of bad times, so in reality 3 from 5 is good by the standards of the past

[QUOTE]Originally posted by monopoly19

Not to say I wouldn't love a premiership, but it's not everything in footy.

I hate that attitude at this level. Its that attitude that breeds the lack of success within this club. Its OK they tried.

We should hurt after a defeat, but we don't, we should despise the thought of losing, but we don't. No what do we do, we look for the positives, cause winning isn't everything.

We should be filthy on the fact that every team outside Vic has a premiership to their name and we haven't (except Freo and and Port and I believe they will get there before us) yet we have been part of this competition for longer than all of them.

I say again, if winning isn't everything at this level, then what is. What is the point of being here.

[monopoly19]

Originally posted by Doctor J.
I hate that attitude at this level. Its that attitude that breeds the lack of success within this club. Its OK they tried.

We should hurt after a defeat, but we don't, we should despise the thought of losing, but we don't. No what do we do, we look for the positives, cause winning isn't everything.

We should be filthy on the fact that every team outside Vic has a premiership to their name and we haven't (except Freo and and Port and I believe they will get there before us) yet we have been part of this competition for longer than all of them.

I say again, if winning isn't everything at this level, then what is. What is the point of being here.

It's not that I like losing, or that I would prefer if we never win a premiership ever again, it's just that if winning is the only thing that matters, you're taking so much of the richness of the game away.

The fact that we haven't won a premiership in 70 years doesn't hurt me like it does for some people. I don't take any joy out of the 1933 win simply because to me it's just another stat. I wasn't watching them. I don't know their names or anything about them. I hadn't watched them grow from individual players into a team that put it all on the line for one another. It means nothing to me.
Football means nothing to me unless it's personal. Unless I can watch them every week, know their names, their strengths and weakness - that's when football starts to mean something.

This whole idea of the Swans being a club that accepts mediocrity is a joke. It's just something that people say after we lose and they want it to mean something more than it does.

Despite what you may think I do hurt after a loss. What makes it hurt less is the little things. I don't give a **** how many premierships other clubs have won. It's not about other clubs. Some people have such a tunnel vision for premiership success that it clouds everything else. It's not as though the players aren't trying and don't want to win (especially this group of players we have now).

I'm just here to enjoy the ride. Sure, a premiership would be great, but I still have some amazing memories of last year that have not, and won't ever be clouded simply because we didn't win the premiership.

If winning is everything, and we never win again, what will you have?

[swan_song]

quote from Lizz
But, for me at least, it's as much about the journey.
_________________________________________

I share your passion for the swannies, Lizz, but not necessarily your sentiments. Of course the journey is important -- what will we actually have to look forward to if we actually do manage to win a premiership -- but the journey at the moment (and for the past 80-odd years) is debilitating, boring, monotonous, predictable and is providing but an occasional driver-reviver break along the way...
The way jude and kirky still throw themselves in, risking life and limb, makes me wonder what has changed so dramatically from last season... I can only think of one thing...and it's no coincidence that the Geelong midfield over the past three weeks or so has begun to click together...I know you and some others don't share my thoughts of the value of Cressa to this side, but I firmly believe that his absence is perhaps the major contributing reason to our fall away this year. A youngish team tends to play inconsistent football, and we have no superstars to shoulder the team any more... As Roosie says, we need to have our best on the field eac week, and they all need to give their best otherwise we will be vulnerable...but, there are probably only two, possibly three, teams this year whose supporters can confidently expect their team to win...

[liz]

Originally posted by swan_song
Of course the journey is important -- what will we actually have to look forward to if we actually do manage to win a premiership -- but the journey at the moment (and for the past 80-odd years) is debilitating, boring, monotonous, predictable and is providing but an occasional driver-reviver break along the way...


Genuine question - if you really view the journey that way, why do you bother following the Swans? What is it that fuels your passion?

[The Boot]

One team only can win the premiership out of 16. To get there one must embark on a journey to get there - however long that might take.

Ref: Saint Kilda 04 , Brisbane 01/02/03. Nuff said.

And if Dr J really was a doctor ... gawd help us !!!!

Patient: "So what are my chances, doc? I hear that early treatment is good."
Dr J: "you have cancer, and you WILL die."
:eek: :rolleyes:

[Foreign Legion]

Been following them for too long to give 'em away and too long to put up with the poor or average performances.

Having said that, we can win the next 2 if we play well and reassess the season then. I would NEVER consider 'tanking' games to get draft picks - may as well give the game away if this is the goal.

One thing is for sure - with Collingwood on the bottom Eddie will NOT be calling for priority draft picks to be abolished - not this year anyway.

Keep you heads up guys and gals - we can only get better.

[Mike_B]

Originally posted by Foreign Legion
Keep you heads up guys and gals - we can only get better.

Well we really can't get worse from the last few weeks can we? Please say NO!!! :D

[NMWBloods]

I'm sure we can get better, however we can also get worse!

[Foreign Legion]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
I'm sure we can get better, however we can also get worse!

Yes NMWBloods we can get worse but I don't think we will. I reckon we can't get any less out of Davis and a few others. At least Maxfield seemed to be better yesterday - put his body on the line a few times and did some good things. Maybe his injury has healed.

I am just as disappointed as you - but really we should be used to it!

Speaking as someone who only missed 1 game in Sydney in 1993 - guess which one?

[BAM_BAM]

I'm with you Lizz.

What failures Kelly, Dunkley, Lockett and Cresswell must feel. If asked they probably would say they'd give it all away for the sake of a premiership. But would they?

I'm not sure that I could give up the memories of sharing my hopes and dreams with those people I fought along side. They came from different parts of this country to forge lifelong friendships. Give all of that up for one day in the sun.

Not me.

But it would be wonderful to catch a few rays.

[Nico]

Gee I must be the only person who saw something positive in yesterday's game.

What I saw was a concerted effort to get back to the running style of last year. It nearly worked but for the continued inept kicking to forwards. We started to move it through the midfield more but kicked poorly. Did anyone notice that WCE often had 2 loose men around the centre square for a lot of the game, thus blocking our run through.

Saddington runs through the guts, bounces 3 times and misses the leading Hall by 20 metres front on and sideways. He might have at least kicked it straight so he could run onto it.

Kennelly did his complsory kick out on the full to a leading forward player. Not even close. Anyone got some Irish jokes?

Williams twice kicked it straight up in the air when running through midfield, but then both Hall and O'Loughlin chose to stand toe to toe with their opponents.

And so it continues, and Hall still kicks 5.

Now StKilda's goalkickers were all forwards. They appear to be playing the old fashioned 6 man forward line, getting the ball in quick to marking forwards. If they don't mark it they have cast of a 1000 crumbing. Simple stuff that overwhelms the flood.

In the last Q we had a 2 man forward line. Where was the dangerous O'Keefe, probably flooding back.

We still have a % of 103.

Get some cohesion on the forward line, and we will stat to win games. Given that we are yet to be thrashed gives me some hope of improvement.

[BAM_BAM]

Originally posted by Nico
In the last Q we had a 2 man forward line. Where was the dangerous O'Keefe, probably flooding back.

.

he was on the bench

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Foreign Legion
Yes NMWBloods we can get worse but I don't think we will.

I agree - it is more likely we should get better, but hopefulyl a lot and soon.


I am just as disappointed as you - but really we should be used to it!

Speaking as someone who only missed 1 game in Sydney in 1993 - guess which one?

Haha - damn!! :mad: :)

[Doctor J.]

Originally posted by BAM_BAM
I'm with you Lizz.

What failures Kelly, Dunkley, Lockett and Cresswell must feel. If asked they probably would say they'd give it all away for the sake of a premiership. But would they?



Of course they wouldn't give it all up, but ask them what their greatest disappointment in their careers has been, and guess what they will say. In fact ask ANY player who has played for a long time, and never tasted ultimate glory.

Bob Skilton, perhaps the greatest player this club has ever produced has always said he would give away all 3 of his Brownlows for one premiership. Is he wrong to think this way?

You see its the ultimate success that counts or means anything, and everything else is, as I said earlier, the froth on a beer.

I'm sorry if the concept of Premierships and winning above anything else offends.

[taurus]

I am with you too, Lizz.

While I disagree with your interpretation of the current situation including suitability of our game plan, I share your passion and sentiment. Football, like life, is indeed journey. I would be curious to see reactions of Doctor J when he reaches his destination ;)


Before anyone accuses me of being idealistic, I do agree that we will make up the final 8 at best. If we can't beat Eagles who play similar style to us, what hope do we have of beating Saints and Lions in Finals?

[Schneidergirl]

I am torn between the two arguements going on in this thread.

My family have been supporting the Swans since we came over from the UK ('86)... I'm in my early 20s now so I can say I have never had complete faith behind the red and white... always feeling let down!

The reason teams play AFL (or any football for that matter) is to win the ultimate prize at the end of it all. What is the point of playing professional football if this is not their intention?
The memories are great and expansive though I could throw them in to see MY TEAM winning the CUP!

I feel the Swans are still a terrific side, and we SHOULD (though the way we are playing- don't deserve it) be up the top mixing it with the 6.

The Swans played with so much courage and fight against Port Adelaide last year that is hard to think this is the same team that lost to Richmond at our home game (our worst loss this season) last week.

Saying this, no matter how far down the ladder we are, how poor our form is, I am a LOYAL Swans member and will NEVER trade my red and white scarf in.

[Damien]

Originally posted by BAM_BAM
I'm with you Lizz.

What failures Kelly, Dunkley, Lockett and Cresswell must feel. If asked they probably would say they'd give it all away for the sake of a premiership. But would they?


Of course they aren't failures, but they would ABSOLUTELY give it away for premierships.

It is like saying to Ian Thorpe, you can go to 5 Olympic Games and win silver at all of them, or we will give you one shot where you win gold. He would go to one Olympics for the ultimate prize without question.

You will always have champion players - but players never ever feel complete without a premiership.

Why else would someone with plugger's amazing personal record risk how he is remembered on a comeback? All because in his mind, his career was never completed.

I agree with comments in this thread - especially a lot of Lizz's, but like most of us, we have been on one hell of a journey already, we are ready for the ultimate. It is time for the club that has shortened my life by decades already to pay up!!! :)

[penga]

Originally posted by Mike_B
Well we really can't get worse from the last few weeks can we? Please say NO!!! :D

we may get better, but the opposition may get better too... this would mean we would still lose...

go and watch fox footy for a week and watch the OTHER teams in the comp and realise that we arent the ONLY team out there!!! and start to appreciate the talents in other lists!

[Mike_B]

I would be more accepting of losses if we were playing well, giving 100% and being beaten by a clearly better side. Hence why this weekend I am not nearly as upset/downspirited/disheartened etc etc as last weekend because the effort was much better, we were beaten by a better side, and we did play well in patches.

I realise that it's not just a matter of watching us. And I've been watching Fox Footy all season, and am aware of the skills of other teams compared to ours.

[liz]

Originally posted by Damien
Of course they aren't failures, but they would ABSOLUTELY give it away for premierships.



You're right, though I question whether a Paul Kelly or Tony Lockett would give away their careers for that of, say, Aaron Keating who has about 5 games and 1 premiership to his name. I know which I'd rather have experienced.

There is, however, a fundamental difference between players' aims and motivations and those of supporters. If and when 22 guys wearing the red and white win a premiership they will have a mighty achievement to look back on. It will be down to their hard work and committment. It will be something that they have had some influence on and can be proud of.

For us, the supporters, it will be fantastic and provide great memories. But we won't have achieved anything personally per se. Our pride will be in the players, not in ourselves. And our ability to really influence it is limited to us continuing to buy our memberships to keep the club in existence and the support we provide by travelling to matches. Of course, without us the players' achievement would mean far less, but it would still be their achievement.

That's why my philosophy is that the destination is really the player and club's goal - our privilege is to enjoy the ride.

[penga]

Originally posted by Mike_B
I realise that it's not just a matter of watching us.

its the sentiment of this thread and sentiment of this board that i was havin a go at, not you :)