LRT v Vogels

[barry]

Not anymore.

Its Vogels vs O'Keefe for the 3rd target forward, and O'keefe is trailing badly. When Nick Davis comes back O'keefe could be in trouble.

If thats not enough, its LRT v Schuable for CHB, and by selection this week, LRT is in front.

Both Vogels and LRT played improved games again this week. The usual suspects will highlight LRT holding the ball decision, but neglect his contested marks, and crashing into packs, and exceptional ground work. not to mention his 50m left footer to MOL's chest while 2 on 1.

Great stuff from the young fellas.

[NMWBloods]

I thought LRT was beaten by Morgan.

Vogels was very good today.

[satchmopugdog]

I just posted in another thread that LRT took a contested mark and with confidence. Very pleasing sign. Sure he still is indecisive and surely should have the Rugga sense to kick for touch when he is indecisive ,but I feel it in my waters that there is improvement.

[barry]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
I thought LRT was beaten by Morgan.


You would.



Vogels was very good today.

Vogels played a good last quarter when he had fresh legs and height to his advantage (And hall no longer presenting).
Before that he was average and didnt do a lot of defensive work while in the forward line which is why Roos dragged him. I suspect that is his weakness in his game. Not a bad one though, and should be correctable if he has the desire.

[Sean]

Originally posted by barry
Its Vogels vs O'Keefe for the 3rd target forward, and O'keefe is trailing badly. When Nick Davis comes back O'keefe could be in trouble.
Don't understand why. Teams name 6 forwards - you have listed 3 and think one could be dropped. Obviously Hall & Mickey will be in the forward line so who are the other 2 that you think should be there ahead of O'Keefe?


If thats not enough, its LRT v Schuable for CHB, and by selection this week, LRT is in front.
:confused: Schauble hasn't played CHB all season has he? He's a FB.


Both Vogels and LRT played improved games again this week. The usual suspects will highlight LRT holding the ball decision, but neglect his contested marks, and crashing into packs, and exceptional ground work. not to mention his 50m left footer to MOL's chest while 2 on 1.
Let's not go overboard. Exceptional? He was OK again. I actually thought his defensive work was worse than last week but he was overall much better with the ball. I'm still happy enough with him but I'm not calling for AA selection just yet.


Great stuff from the young fellas.
I agree.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by barry
You would.
I thought it was fairly clear that Morgan was beating LRT for much of the game - on the lead and in marking contests.

Disregard my views all you like, but the only previous time I was highly critical of LRT was against Essendon. I thought his game last week was okay and this week was below average.

You are the blinkered one that seems to think if he manages to actually kick the ball straight or gather the ball he's done a great job.



Vogels played a good last quarter when he had fresh legs and height to his advantage (And hall no longer presenting).
So? Don't dismiss his game because of that.


Before that he was average and didnt do a lot of defensive work while in the forward line which is why Roos dragged him. I suspect that is his weakness in his game. Not a bad one though, and should be correctable if he has the desire.
Before that he wasn't on for that long.

I noticed against Essendon he chased and tackled in the forward line so I don't think it is a weakness in his game. Perhaps just a bit lazy today.

He also has a nice kick; found O'Loughlin with a good pass (which so many other players in our side struggle with - their kicks hit the ground in front of the leading player or go over their heads) and took a handy mark and goaled in the third quarter.

[stellation]

Originally posted by barry

Vogels played a good last quarter when he had fresh legs and height to his advantage (And hall no longer presenting).
Before that he was average and didnt do a lot of defensive work while in the forward line which is why Roos dragged him. I suspect that is his weakness in his game. Not a bad one though, and should be correctable if he has the desire.
He is 6'4", how much defensive work do you want from him in the forward line? I didn't notice any particular problem with it.
He was presenting when he was on the ground earlier in the game, they just weren't looking to him as they had other options. Not really his fault and doesn't cheapen the performance at the end.

[monopoly19]

LRT often seems to get caught a fair way away from his man. It might be that I'm just looking for things to pick on him about (I'm most definately not a fan), but he did NOT play well enough to keep Schauble out of the team.

Vogels was pretty quiet for most of the game, but if he kicks 3 goals every week, well, I think he's got a place in the team. I don't think him and O'Keefe are competing for the same spot, either.

[gilze]

What i fail to understand is the praise thats heaped on LRT for doing the basic things any member of a team's starting 18 does or should be able to. He had the sit for a few marks and he took them, he saw a free man and kicked it to him, so? Schauble is a better player and looked to me as if he was regathering some form last week so I'm dissapointed and bemused that he was relegated by Roosy to the reserves. The one thing I like about Vogels so much more than LRT is the fact that he looks like an AFL player. I'm sure O'Keefe isn't worrying too much about Vogels. he's been a very handy inclusion and would be usefull if he can just continue to bob up and kick some goals. But O'Keefe has been improving recently and is a pretty vital player in our forward structure

[barry]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
I thought it was fairly clear that Morgan was beating LRT for much of the game - on the lead and in marking contests.

Disregard my views all you like, but the only previous time I was highly critical of LRT was against Essendon. I thought his game last week was okay and this week was below average.

You are the blinkered one that seems to think if he manages to actually kick the ball straight or gather the ball he's done a great job.

I would say Morgan and LRT came out about square. The majority of time Morgan got it was on the lead from a great kick in the midfielder, where the kicker wasnt under any pressure at all. Not many backman can do much there.
Contested possesion,and in despute I put LRT ahead.
And it was great to see LRT setting up drive from the backline with good link up play.

And lets be honest, you've been scathing on LRT over the past few weeks.


[B]
So? Don't dismiss his game because of that.
[B]

No, but kept in context.


Before that he wasn't on for that long.

I noticed against Essendon he chased and tackled in the forward line so I don't think it is a weakness in his game. Perhaps just a bit lazy today.

I half heard Demmie go on about his lack of defensive work on one occation.


He also has a nice kick; found O'Loughlin with a good pass (which so many other players in our side struggle with - their kicks hit the ground in front of the leading player or go over their heads) and took a handy mark and goaled in the third quarter.
LRT hit MOL 100% of the time the two crossed. :D

[Schneiderman]

Originally posted by barry
Not anymore.

How about you wait until Roos moves him to CHB. He probably wont whilst he is kicking goals, but I am confident that if he does he would easily show up LuRTches' averageness. One good mark and two solid kicks do not a good CHB make.

[barry]

Originally posted by gilze
But O'Keefe has been improving recently and is a pretty vital player in our forward structure

O'keefes had a shocking year. typified by the essendon game where he was torn a new a-hole.
O'keefes previous role has been 3rd target behind MOL and Hall. If Vogels continues his improvement and gets good game time, I see O'keefe under pressure with Davis coming back.
Probably Saddington too as he dropped some sitters today.

Maybe O'keefe, Vogels and Saddo vying for 2 spots on the forward line might be more accurate.

[barry]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
How about you wait until Roos moves him to CHB. He probably wont whilst he is kicking goals, but I am confident that if he does he would easily show up LuRTches' averageness. One good mark and two solid kicks do not a good CHB make.

Dont get me wrong. I think Schuable is a fantastic ingedient to the swans backline. He has played CHB most of his career, but been moved down to FB to cover the main forward over the last couple of years. although Leo barry is taking over that role now.
His best position is still CHB where his speed isnt exposed by a fast leading forward.
I was suprised as any that LRT stayed in the team and Schuable droped this week. When I praise LRT, its with a big picture in mind. I wont tell you where I see LRT playing in 5 years time as it may scare you. ;)

Schauble will come back in next week. Hopefully his omission this week was just for the doggies and to build up a bit more fitness.

But I guess its a sign of things to come. Maybe Roos sees him as too injury prone to keep as the core KPP over a long campain.

[Sean]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
I thought it was fairly clear that Morgan was beating LRT for much of the game - on the lead and in marking contests.
That's a pretty big call. He had 3 marks (same as LRT) and kicked one goal. Had less than 10 touches overall.

I guess if you had to pick a winner Morgan may just be ahead but it was close enough to call it a draw IMHO.

[gilze]

Saddington may have 'dropped some sitters' but considering he is coming back from a knee reconstruction I think the signs he has shown so far have been reasonably positive. I can't see Vogels getting enough game time to worry O'Keefe in the near future. Whilst Davis is used around the ground too much to take over the role as 3rd forward to Baz and Mick IMO

[barry]

Originally posted by gilze
Saddington may have 'dropped some sitters' but considering he is coming back from a knee reconstruction I think the signs he has shown so far have been reasonably positive.


Saddington with 2 good knees wasnt anything special, I cant see sadington with 1 reconstructed knee eclipsing the old saddo. Handy utility, thats all.

Cast your mind back to the days Saddo got the pasting LRT is getting now on here.


I can't see Vogels getting enough game time to worry O'Keefe in the near future. Whilst Davis is used around the ground too much to take over the role as 3rd forward to Baz and Mick IMO

If Vogels doesnt get a full game next week after this weeks performance, I'd be amazed.

[gilze]

I hope your not being serious. he may get more gametime, but I wouldn't even start to think that you won't see him on the bench. I enjoyed his performance today but i doubt a 3rd gamer will play 120mins

[gilze]

prepare to be amazed!!!!

[Sanecow]

Originally posted by Sean
That's a pretty big call. He had 3 marks (same as LRT) and kicked one goal. Had less than 10 touches overall.

I guess if you had to pick a winner Morgan may just be ahead but it was close enough to call it a draw IMHO.

You can thank Nicks that that isn't 4 marks and two goals.

[TheHood]

Think ROK has tried really hard all season. He is now a known and targeted player and he's struggling in the hardest position in the game.

Confusingly, Roosy has not addressed the issue in an obvious way. This is either because he's a foil for Baz or another forward or because he's been neglected like a 52 year old public servant who's contract is over and no one know's who he reports to or what division he belongs to any more. ROK just keeps rocking up to work without any obvious role to play.

Still he's worked so hard in the packs. I almost think he's running himself in the ground and no longer presenting himself as an outside option. He should take my advice and run to the middle of the 50. We leave that space open like we don't want to disturb young grass from flourishing. Reckon the grass in the centre corridor after a Swans game is like the carpet under your lounge...perfect and undisturbed from passing traffic!

[ROK Lobster]

Originally posted by TheHood
ROK's been neglected like a 52 year old public servant who's contract is over and no one know's who he reports to or what division he belongs to any more. ROK just keeps rocking up to work without any obvious role to play.
you know way too much about me...

[monopoly19]

Originally posted by Sanecow
You can thank Nicks that that isn't 4 marks and two goals.

Yep. That was one case where LRT somehow lost Morgan in the forward line. Morgan ended up in very nearly taking a mark right in front about 2 metres out, spoiled at the last minute by a Nicks punch (who had a fairly good game himself, IMO).

[Nolie]

Originally posted by gilze
W l The one thing I like about Vogels so much more than LRT is the fact that he looks like an AFL player.

What a load of piffle.
What does your average AFL player look like?
Kirk himself exhibits traits that would not be regarded as "classical" AFL. Same with Leo Barry.

[liz]

Not quite sure what the point of comparing Vogels and LRT is.

They are at different stages of their careers.

They have travelled very different roads to get to where they are at the moment.

They are playing very different roles in the team at the moment.

They have different packages of attributes.

In fact, about the only things they have in common are height and blonde hair!

They are not really competing for positions in the team ATM, let alone places on the list. With a relative paucity of tall, strongly built young talent on the list there is plenty of room for both of them if they can continue to develop.

[Rob-bloods]

Seriously talented players struggle at CHB, LRT is not talented....seriously. He is an accident waiting to happen, if we strike a hot scoring side, say Geelong, what will happen to LRT?

I'd look at Schaubs for next week for LRT and Willo for? .....Not sure yet.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Sean
That's a pretty big call. He had 3 marks (same as LRT) and kicked one goal. Had less than 10 touches overall.

I guess if you had to pick a winner Morgan may just be ahead but it was close enough to call it a draw IMHO.

Well Nicks stopped one that was an easy mark and the two misses should have been goals, so Morgan could very easily have had 4. Given Morgan's not a key forward, that would have been a very handy return for the 'Dogs.

[sharpie]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Well Nicks stopped one that was an easy mark and the two misses should have been goals, so Morgan could very easily have had 4. Given Morgan's not a key forward, that would have been a very handy return for the 'Dogs.

Come on NMW, you of all people preach the greatness of stats and the devils of 'ifs'. So practice what you preach. Dont just argue for arguing's sake.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by sharpie
Come on NMW, you of all people preach the greatness of stats and the devils of 'ifs'. So practice what you preach. Dont just argue for arguing's sake.

I'm not at all. And as I've said numerous times, I don't preach stats out of context. Simply pointing out that as a defensive player he didn't really do a great job - other factors stopped his player from kicking a number of goals. That is just luck.

[sharpie]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
I'm not at all. And as I've said numerous times, I don't preach stats out of context. Simply pointing out that as a defensive player he didn't really do a great job - other factors stopped his player from kicking a number of goals. That is just luck.

I accept you dont like LRT. Personally I think he is still worth giving a chance. And everyone has their own opinion on this matter.

Mostly you come up with relevant stats, but on some occasions, like the earlier comment, you lose grip of your stats and start with the 'should haves', 'could haves', 'ifs', 'would haves', etc that make it seem like you are just trying to win the argument by brute force and weight of numbers.

Your arguments are far more effective when you stick to what you're good at.

[Sean]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Well Nicks stopped one that was an easy mark and the two misses should have been goals, so Morgan could very easily have had 4. Given Morgan's not a key forward, that would have been a very handy return for the 'Dogs.
:confused: You are judging LRT according to what Morgan should have done - not what he did do?

If Morgan could "easily" have 4, how did he end up with 1? Sounds like he must have had a poor match - but he clearly beat LRT?

Sounds a bit harsh to me.

[skilts stilts]

LRT was all at sea but is well worth persisting with. Short term pain for long term gain. In relation to Vogels, the name Gavin Rose springs to mind when I watch him.

[barry]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Well Nicks stopped one that was an easy mark and the two misses should have been goals, so Morgan could very easily have had 4. Given Morgan's not a key forward, that would have been a very handy return for the 'Dogs.

Sorry Bloods, but that is possibly the dumbest thing I've read on here for a while.

You've been hanging around bigfooty too long.
:D

[sharpie]

Originally posted by skilts stilts
LRT was all at sea but is well worth persisting with. Short term pain for long term gain. In relation to Vogels, the name Gavin Rose springs to mind when I watch him.

Troy Luff :D (at least according to the MMM commentary team, including the great man himself!)

[mocaholic]

Originally posted by skilts stilts
LRT was all at sea but is well worth persisting with. Short term pain for long term gain. In relation to Vogels, the name Gavin Rose springs to mind when I watch him.
He looks like Gavin Rose.

And there the similarity ends.

[NMWBloods]

If a player has 3 shots at goal and misses two easy ones, that doesn't mean the defender did well. He allowed three relatively easy shots at goal. If a player has his man beaten in front of goals and the only reason he doesn't mark and kick a goal is another player helps out then, again, the defender hasn't done well.

That Morgan didn't kick more is not because of good defensive work by LRT.

I recall last year when this site was up in arms about the media saying Hall was well beaten by Grant, and people fell over themselves to point out he kicked 1.4 and it was only his innaccuracy, not Grant's good defensive work, that prevented a very good return from Hall. Seems that this sort of analysis is only allowed when it favours the Swans...

[barry]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
If a player has 3 shots at goal and misses two easy ones, that doesn't mean the defender did well. He allowed three relatively easy shots at goal. If a player has his man beaten in front of goals and the only reason he doesn't mark and kick a goal is another player helps out then, again, the defender hasn't done well.

That Morgan didn't kick more is not because of good defensive work by LRT.


Defenders help out other defenders all the time. LRT slammed into packs to spoil other opponents many times. Why not count those as well ?

Plus I think its a bit of a stretch to assume Morgan would have marked the one Nicks spoiled. LRT had made up quite a bit of ground and was putting pressure on him by the time the ball came in. It wasnt an easy one to mark anyway.

[NMWBloods]

I don't equate LRT throwing himself headlong into a pack with Nicks' spoiling a mark.

LRT had his back to the ball and I actually expected a free kick to be paid to Morgan as LRT just cannoned into him. Morgan was very well positioned to take that mark and the ball was falling into his hands.

I don't "hate" LRT, however in the past few games I think his progression is still minimal and his level of play is not great. He's certainly well behind other players at the 30 game level. It's amazing how the supporters of him seem to think that if he does some very basic football things, like kick the ball to position or outmark a player he's done a great job. There is a lot more to do than that.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

"I hate LRT, he's horrible, he has bad hair, he lurches when he runs, he's too slow, too unco-ordinated, he drinks fanta. See look at these stats they prove that Amon Buchanan is a better KPP than LRT!
We should trade him! No we should sack him mid-season! No we should get the cheersquad to abandon banners and create a giant wicker man on the half-back line then we should lock LRT in it and set fire to it at 1/4 time."

Sorry about that I thought I'd join the anti-LRT chorus to see whether there was any merit in it (and got carried away) . . . . there isn't.

Morgan beat LRT in the first quarter, the ball was well delivered to him on the lead and LRT was too loose.
However after LRT received a message he started to nudge Morgan and maintain contact. Perhaps it was an improved focus on his opponent but perhaps also a little push and shove helps light his engine? Certainly he improved on Lucas after they got to pushing and shoving. Perhaps he needs to start a game with that frame of mind? Drawing a longbow, perhaps it's the union background, certainly in that game you rarely play shoulder to shoulder with your opponent, and rugby forwards are renowned for needing to be smacked about to wake them up. :D

Less amusingly I am more concerned with the fairness with which he spoils, they way he does it you'd think he learnt spoiling from the AFL rulebook. Maybe he read it, nowonder his development's slow. In any case one of the senior players should give him a tutorial on unbalancing his opponent in the air and jogging arms.

[barry]

LRT has really started to use his bulk and strength more in the last few weeks. I even suspect that Roos told him to crash into packs this weekend to put the wind up the smaller dog forwards.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
I don't "hate" LRT,
Of course not your perfectly objective in your opinions. It's those naughty people with different opinions who get all emotional and silly.


Originally posted by NMWBloods
He's certainly well behind other players at the 30 game level.
Your "30 game level" refers to AFl senior appearances, not total games of AFl which might be more relevant.


Originally posted by NMWBloods
It's amazing how the supporters of him seem to think that if he does some very basic football things, like kick the ball to position or outmark a player he's done a great job. There is a lot more to do than that.
Actually there isn't all that much more to it, it's football not rocket science :D

[giant]

I have no more confidence in the Hyphenator having seen him live than I did seeing him on TV. He still seems too often to be totally out of his depth. The mark by Morgan in the goal square was a perfect eg - Morgan lost him so easily you'd think LRT had lost his contact lenses.

Still, while we are cobbling together wins I guess we can still afford to be blooding LRT, as we can the Moores, Vogels & Bevans.

Interesting to see what happens if we start being belted tho.

[NobNob]

Hello to all my friends on RedAndWhiteOnline.com Messageboard.

I am still thinking that Robert Lewis-Thompson is the BEST. But there are things that he is doing that are making me think that Paul Roos is a poor coach and has not got his Level 1 AFL Coaching Accreditation Certificate. He must be telling Robert to be staying on his feet more of the time. He is sliding in on his knees and when the ball is coming out he is still on the ground. Paul Roos must tell him not to do this. I think he should hit him with a cane on the calves each time he does - it is an excellent aid to memorising. Paul Roos must also be teaching Robert to kick on the run. He will only handpass unless he has a feee kick from a mark. If he has no players to handpass too he is getting trapped and caught with the ball. But I think he is really improving his kicks from marks to unmarked players 30 metres away and I love it when he just charges into the marking contest and knocks players everywhere. He is a STAR OF THE FUTURE. He has a big HEART, high fashion hair and the white-est teeth I have EVER seen. I am thinking he could be CAPTAIN next time when Leo Leaping retires.

I am log-off.
Sal D.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Ruckman
Of course not your perfectly objective in your opinions. It's those naughty people with different opinions who get all emotional and silly.
Yep - you know exactly what I'm thinking - silly me - I should check with RWO before deciding anything in the future...


Your "30 game level" refers to AFl senior appearances, not total games of AFl which might be more relevant.
It's not a nursery.


Actually there isn't all that much more to it, it's football not rocket science :D
There is more to it, particularly if the mark and kick happen only once or twice per game!

LRT's spoiling is fairly ordinary - he frequently misses the ball and I'm amazed he doesn't get caught more for over the shoulder, knocking the arms away, or simply crashing into players without appearing to go for the ball.


Still, this is just too funny. The "pro-LRT" brigade is playing his achievements out of all proportion and branding anyone who doesn't agree as hateful of him and blind of his achievements or his potential achievements.

Earlier in the year, I said that he's still developing his AFL skills and needs more time. I've just developed a view in recent weeks that he's not really developing that well. I've also commented though that unless he's taking the place of another tall, we should persist for a little while longer, but if there is an alternative tall we should try them.

However, this is all deliberately missed and instead I'm branded as an irrational LRT-hater. Have to love this site. And they think Footyhead is bad...

[barry]

Originally posted by NMWBloods


Earlier in the year, I said that he's still developing his AFL skills and needs more time. I've just developed a view in recent weeks that he's not really developing that well. I've also commented though that unless he's taking the place of another tall, we should persist for a little while longer, but if there is an alternative tall we should try them.



A rather sanitised view of some pretty scathing criticisms you've dished out to the young bloke.

You refuse to acknowlegde anything positive that LRT does, going so far to claim Morgan clearly beat him when in reality it was a dead heat.

Even those in the pro-LRT camp recognise his current shortcommings.

[Sean]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
LRT's spoiling is fairly ordinary - he frequently misses the ball and I'm amazed he doesn't get caught more for over the shoulder, knocking the arms away, or simply crashing into players without appearing to go for the ball.
Disagree. If his spoiling was fairly ordinnary then he would struggle defensively at AFL level - he hasn't had a bag kicked on him yet. If he was going over the shoulder, knocking the arms away or crashing into players he would have frees paid against him. Even if he does do what you say, isn't it a good thing if he gets away with it? Silvagni made a career out of it - and Scarlett very seldom spoils without some kind of overlooked infringement these days.


Still, this is just too funny. The "pro-LRT" brigade is playing his achievements out of all proportion and branding anyone who doesn't agree as hateful of him and blind of his achievements or his potential achievements.
It's one person isn't it? You seem to do your fair share of "branding" on here. ;)


Earlier in the year, I said that he's still developing his AFL skills and needs more time. I've just developed a view in recent weeks that he's not really developing that well. I've also commented though that unless he's taking the place of another tall, we should persist for a little while longer, but if there is an alternative tall we should try them.
I agree with most of that except that he's not developing. It's 9 games now and he hasn't had a bag kicked on him. His disposal was also much better yesterday. Surely there is development happening?


However, this is all deliberately missed and instead I'm branded as an irrational LRT-hater. Have to love this site. And they think Footyhead is bad...
At least use someone who actually watches the football in your comparison. ;)

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Originally posted by Sean
Even if he does do what you say, isn't it a good thing if he gets away with it? Silvagni made a career out of it - and Scarlett very seldom spoils without some kind of overlooked infringement these days.

I agree completely, I wasn't being facetious when I said I was concerned with the fairness with which he spoils. Although I was when i suggested be learnt spoiling from the AFL rulebook. No one reads that ~ certainly not the umpires.
So yes I think one of the senior players should give him a tutorial on unbalancing his opponent in the air and jogging arms.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by barry
A rather sanitised view of some pretty scathing criticisms you've dished out to the young bloke.
Such as? What are these 'scathing' criticisms I've made on the RWO forum?

Or are you simply focussing on the joke thread "LRT is to AFL"?

You've been branding me an "LRT-hater" since the lead up to the Essendon game, which was the first time I commented on him. This is an obsessive protection of your boy!



You refuse to acknowlegde anything positive that LRT does, going so far to claim Morgan clearly beat him when in reality it was a dead heat.
"In reality"... LOL - I had a view, which I'm allowed to have.


Even those in the pro-LRT camp recognise his current shortcommings.
I thought he was "great" and "fantastic"...?

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Sean
Disagree. If his spoiling was fairly ordinnary then he would struggle defensively at AFL level - he hasn't had a bag kicked on him yet. If he was going over the shoulder, knocking the arms away or crashing into players he would have frees paid against him. Even if he does do what you say, isn't it a good thing if he gets away with it? Silvagni made a career out of it - and Scarlett very seldom spoils without some kind of overlooked infringement these days.
If he gets away with it great. However, I wonder how long he will.



It's one person isn't it? You seem to do your fair share of "branding" on here. ;)
Mainly one, but I think there are a couple of others.


I agree with most of that except that he's not developing. It's 9 games now and he hasn't had a bag kicked on him. His disposal was also much better yesterday. Surely there is development happening?
There is some development, but it's too slow IMO. Hasn't really played a full game on anyone who's likely to kick a bag on him.

[Sean]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
If he gets away with it great. However, I wonder how long he will.
I would say that it's more likely that he would give away frees now rather than in the future because like most sports the "rookies" get treated much more harshly. The umpires were also focusing on it a lot this season so with a bit of luck he should be OK.


There is some development, but it's too slow IMO. Hasn't really played a full game on anyone who's likely to kick a bag on him.
True but that's what happens with most players of his experience. They'll be protected from the best players. Hall very seldom has a young defender on him - for example, the Demons used their CHF rather than their young CHB.

It is definitely the test that LRT needs to pass to prove to me that he has "made it". It would be nice to actually get a long way ahead in a game so that he could get a run on a really good player - but that's never going to happen :(

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Hasn't really played a full game on anyone who's likely to kick a bag on him.

Which raises the issue of next week, the Saints may have Hamill, Gehrig and Riewolt all playing.

[NMWBloods]

What appeals about LRT is his height and athleticism. The way he ran out of defence and kicked the ball long to MOL was very nice. However, it remains to be seen whether that is something he can repeat or something unusual - even a weekend hacker can hit the perfect drive now and again. He has the height and leap to compete superbly in the air, but seems to lack judgement on where the ball is going.

As I've said numerous times, these skill and decision making parts of his game do not appear to be progressing enormously at the moment. Perhaps they will in the future, but it's still a big ask. Still worth persisting while we have nothing to replace him with.

He may become an okay footballer, but I'll be amazed if he becomes a very good one.

[Sanecow]

Originally posted by barry
Plus I think its a bit of a stretch to assume Morgan would have marked the one Nicks spoiled.

Agreed. LRT was going to give a free away.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Originally posted by Ruckman
Which raises the issue of next week, the Saints may have Hamill, Gehrig and Riewolt all playing.

Leo will be looking forward to plaing on Fraser again, and I think Hammill would provide LRT with an "education" but Schauble on Riewolt could be a worry.

[ugg]

Craig Bolton will take one of the 3.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Ruckman
Which raises the issue of next week, the Saints may have Hamill, Gehrig and Riewolt all playing.

C Bolton on Hammill.

Schauble on Gehrig.

Barry on Riewoldt.

[ugg]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
C Bolton on Hammill.

Schauble on Gehrig.

Barry on Riewoldt.

Gehrig and Riewoldt will be too fast for Schauble. The best matchup for him is Hamill. Barry will get Gehrig after doing well on him, and CBolton should get Riewoldt.

[NMWBloods]

Gehrig doesn't really move around a lot - simply relies on his strength to outmark his opponents.

Hamill is way too quick for Schauble. He's only a little guy and very nippy - more suited to Bolton.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Gehrig doesn't really move around a lot - simply relies on his strength to outmark his opponents.

I believe his modus operandi, despite all the work on the peck deck in recent years, was the lead.

[ugg]

He used to play on the wing for the Eagles, pace is definitely one of his assets.

[barry]

Reiwolt is carrying an injury, and is hearing footsteps. We need to get some uncordinated mad man in there to scare the bejesus out of him. So that everytime he goes for the ball he's thinking: "Where is that nutcase going to hit me now".
Answer: LRT. Bold and imaginative.

Look what it opens up:
Schauble v Gehrig - can wrestle all day in the goal square.
Barry v Hammil - Barry will run off him as easy as.
This also frees up Bolton to be 3rd-man up anywhere he wants, and Kennelly to run like the wind.

[ROK Lobster]

Originally posted by barry
Bold and imaginative.

Yes it is. So was the plan for the Grollo Tower.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Ruckman
I believe his modus operandi, despite all the work on the peck deck in recent years, was the lead.

He's very good on the lead, but I don't think he's enormously quick - just reasonable and uses strength to keep his position. Likewise, he can stand in the square and do the same thing.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by barry
Reiwolt is carrying an injury, and is hearing footsteps. We need to get some uncordinated mad man in there to scare the bejesus out of him. So that everytime he goes for the ball he's thinking: "Where is that nutcase going to hit me now".
Answer: LRT. Bold and imaginative.
If nothing else it will be entertaining!

[Wil]

The Hyphen on Nick Riewoldt sounds perfect. It's starting to get to the time to put The Hyphen to the sword. Riewoldt is the kind of player we need The Hyphen to defend against so... do it, sink or swim.

The Hyphen sucks but he is still out best CHB (and better than Goodes at that position).

[ROK Lobster]

Originally posted by Wil
The Hyphen on Nick Riewoldt sounds perfect. It's starting to get to the time to put The Hyphen to the sword. Riewoldt is the kind of player we need The Hyphen to defend against so... do it, sink or swim.

The Hyphen sucks but he is still out best CHB (and better than Goodes at that position).
I'm guessing Riewoldt is the captain of your dream team.

[jude_boltons_babe]

LRT is used garbage that cant play for peanuts

[Tuesday]

Originally posted by Wil
The Hyphen on Nick Riewoldt sounds perfect.

Ha! [I am assuming that was a joke]

All in all, the Hyphen was average (I think I shall call him... Mr Average). Though I must mention that whenever he gets the ball or even gets near the ball, I experience a physical reaction -- a wave a nausea -- that floods over me. This sounds terrible, but it's true. I sat in the stands one minute in jubilation, the next almost hurling... Oh, how I love this game!

[Wil]

Originally posted by Tuesday
Ha! [I am assuming that was a joke] All in all, the Hyphen was average (I think I shall call him... Mr Average).
No Joke. But he needs to be tested. He can always be moved off him.. no big deal. The Hyphen being average is GOOD. At this point it is really the most we can expect of him, I am glad you rate him so much :)


Though I must mention that whenever he gets the ball or even gets near the ball, I experience a physical reaction -- a wave a nausea -- that floods over me. This sounds terrible, but it's true. I sat in the stands one minute in jubilation, the next almost hurling... Oh, how I love this game! You still get that feeling? You must not of been following the Swans for long... Though I still get it a bit everytime the ball ends up in Mathews, Crouch or Bevan's hands. Not so much for Jude Bolton anymore. :D

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Originally posted by jude_boltons_babe
LRT is used garbage that cant play for peanuts

I'm so glad you're anti-LRT.
I'd hate to have you on my side of any argument. I almost feel sorry for 'Bloods, ROK or Sanecow having you support their argument on this matter . . . such a disadvantage.

[Bart]

Originally posted by jude_boltons_babe
LRT is used garbage that cant play for peanuts


:rolleyes: Has anyone invented an internet IQ filter to deter posters like JABBA

[ROK Lobster]

Originally posted by Ruckman
I'm so glad you're anti-LRT.
I'd hate to have you on my side of any argument. I almost feel sorry for 'Bloods, ROK or Sanecow having you support their argument on this matter . . . such a disadvantage.
There aren't sides, or teams, or gangs, feuding with each other. I see no 'disadvantage' with JBB expressing an opinion. My stance on LRT has not changed. OK kick, average handball, poor mark for his height and athleticism, improving in these area but doing so slowly. No footy smarts and not looking like getting any in a hurry. It is my opinion. I do not care who thinks similarly or otherwise.

[Ruda Wakening]

Originally posted by jude_boltons_babe
LRT is upset because his dog is sick leave him alone

Exactly.

[Sanecow]

Originally posted by ROK Lobster
There aren't sides, or teams, or gangs, feuding with each other.

ROK, bloods and I are all devastatingly handsome, however; sometimes that causes confusion.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Originally posted by Sean
Disagree. If his spoiling was fairly ordinnary then he would struggle defensively at AFL level - he hasn't had a bag kicked on him yet. If he was going over the shoulder, knocking the arms away or crashing into players he would have frees paid against him. Even if he does do what you say, isn't it a good thing if he gets away with it? Silvagni made a career out of it - and Scarlett very seldom spoils without some kind of overlooked infringement these days.

. ;)

Umm, I think LRT 'flails' away, as one commentator described it, because he is uncoordinated. The others are hardnosed buggers who are precise in pushing the umps as far as they can go.

I'm sure LRT will make a great windmill one day; just not a key position defender on elite forwards.

Consider it - Silvagni used to play on Lockett and Dunstall and Ablett. LRT plays on Toby Thurstans and Morgan. A slight difference I think

[barry]

Originally posted by ROK Lobster
There aren't sides, or teams, or gangs, feuding with each other. I see no 'disadvantage' with JBB expressing an opinion. My stance on LRT has not changed. OK kick, average handball, poor mark for his height and athleticism, improving in these area but doing so slowly. No footy smarts and not looking like getting any in a hurry. It is my opinion. I do not care who thinks similarly or otherwise.

Well stop telling us over and over again then. :p

[giant]

Originally posted by Tuesday

All in all, the Hyphen was average (I think I shall call him... Mr Average).

Only if his first name is "Below"

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Originally posted by ROK Lobster
There aren't sides,
Don't be obtuse. There are "two sides to every argument" in this world . . . although it may be different amongst the crustaceans in lobster land.


Originally posted by ROK Lobster
I see no 'disadvantage' with JBB expressing an opinion.
Nor do I, I'm just glad someone who expresses himself like that doesn't approve of my opinion.



Originally posted by i'm-uninformed2
Consider it - Silvagni used to play on Lockett and Dunstall and Ablett. LRT plays on Toby Thurstans and Morgan. A slight difference I think

The similarity is that in both cases their respective teams more peanut brained fans wanted them traded!

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Sanecow
ROK, bloods and I are all devastatingly handsome, however; sometimes that causes confusion.
We also have a secret handshake and do occasional spy work for governments around the world.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Ruckman
Don't be obtuse. There are "two sides to every argument" in this world . . .
It's not quite as black and white as that.


Nor do I, I'm just glad someone who expresses himself like that doesn't approve of my opinion.
It's a her and her opinion has nothing to do with mine.



The similarity is that in both cases their respective teams more peanut brained fans wanted them traded!
Which 'peanut brained fans' are these?

[ScottH]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Which 'peanut brained fans' are these? Charlie, Sally, Lucy, Snoopy, Woodstock ......

[Sid]

Barry, u are putting a lot of pressure on ur opinion of vogels. Just because he performed well for 1 quarter doesnt mean hes gonna be a star from now on. He could have a shocker next week.

In my opinion, o keefe is definitely needed in the team. I gain confidence every time he gets the ball, and at half forward, hes very dangerous. I cant see him getting dropped.

[Tuesday]

Originally posted by giant
Only if his first name is "Below"

Ha! :D

[Sean]

This thread still going?

I watched the match on Fox again today and it was interesting to note a couple of things. Firstly, the spoil by Nicks that helped LRT was not on Morgan - it was Skipper.

Secondly, if we are going to count that against LRT then we should count the time he helped out Barry in his favour - Barry dropped a mark at CHB and his opponent, Murphy, got about 30 meters away from him. LRT was the one who got to Murphy and backed into him quite bravely to attempt the mark and prevent a certain goal.

Thirdly, Morgan did pretty much nothing for 2.5 quarters but LRT wasn't actually on him the whole match and did concede a goal to Hahn in the 4th.

So, not that it matters now but I still don't think that Morgan beat LRT but his defensive work was probably below the previous week's standard.

[Sanecow]

Whose man drifted in front of Jolly's marking attempt in the square and stole the mark? [Jolly should have punched it probably.]

[NMWBloods]

Dermie noted that there should have been more talk - Jolly was in front and thought he had an easy mark so naturally should take it.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Sanecow
Whose man drifted in front of Jolly's marking attempt in the square and stole the mark? [Jolly should have punched it probably.]
I knew there was one other piece of play that I wanted to mention but couldn't remember.

Jolly should have punched but it was LRT's man who took the mark so in all fairness it should go against him. Can't remember exactly who took the mark but I'm assuming that it was Morgan and that was how he got his goal.