drop hall

[ScottH]

The umps are still out ther, no reason Hall shouldn't be.

[NMWBloods]

My dad keeps suggesting that one, but it didn't seem to hurt him last year.

[matthew smith]

reason for hall's slump form

hall had corrective eye surgery a few years ago, could it be the problem with his form? your thoughts

[dimelb]

That said, the passing by foot into the forward 50 has been terrible. Crumbing forwards cannot work off Hall if the ball sails over his head or lands two feet in front.

True, but we do not seem to use crumbing forwards on a regular basis. It is a perennial gripe of mine - especialy when we have people who can fill the role such as Schneider.

[AnnieH]

seriously ... i'd play him at half-back.

[stellation]

I wouldn't drop him yet, I'd just use him differently; how to use him depends entirely about the injuries I suppose. Maybe further up the ground as a true CHF, or if we play him closer to goals as a true FF then great, but get everyone else the hell out of his space to lead into and just leave him with some forwards that can crumb + lead... and actually get SOMEONE to play CHF.

[TheMase]

Players were incredibly lazy last night. There were times when all forwards would lead leaving a 30-40 metre gaping hole of space in our forward line, then nobody ran into that space.

It was unbelieveable.
Leading in general was pretty ordinary from everyone, very half arsed attempts. All they did was clog up the space for players that were putting on a genuine lead. Ablett did this on several occations.

[NMWBloods]

On the issue of poor decision making, a couple of times Jolly was one-out against Heath Shaw in the goal square and instead of kicking it long to him, we tried a 15m short pass to Hall in a mass of Collingwood players. Unbelievably stupid! Again the drilled v. talented issue comes up...

[Matty10]

Totally agree that Hall has a problem with marking (particularly this season) - doesn't seem to know how to take a chest mark correctly and the ball falls too easily through his hands when attempting to mark overhead.

That said, the passing by foot into the forward 50 has been terrible. Crumbing forwards cannot work off Hall if the ball sails over his head or lands two feet in front.

Why our players continue to pass into a congested forward 50 when they should be having on the run shots from the arc is beyond me - no issue if there is space, but they seem too rigid in the decision to find a target no matter what the situation. It happened 5 times in a row in the third qtr, with Ablett, Everitt, Goodes and even Hall passing across goal when they should have taken shots.

I am big fan of Bevan, as he plays hard and tough. However, he should not be playing inside the defensive 50 - he has no idea what he is doing and his style of play (which is aggressive and therefore causes the occasional free kick) is too costly to the team in front of the opposition goal.

Hall must be injured, he didn't play his usual CHF role and spent more time at FF, letting Micky do the work up the ground. Would have been better the other way around had Hall been capable.

[NMWBloods]

If we could kick the ball reasonably long and accurately to the wing, Hall could make a very useful link man, getting the ball two to two and a half kicks from goal. Turns quickly and kicks it inside 50 to a one-on-one, either a lead or a contested mark. If it's done quickly then the defence doesn't have advantage of numbers. Players like Goodes and ROK can still work up and down the ground, preferably in the corridor, and run onto the ball that Hall has kicked into the forward line. Alternatively they can have periods where they start in the forward and present an option, which may occur if they have a mismatch, they have run their opponent of his legs, or just to change things.

[giant]

Good point on the fitness aspect. I doubt Hall could run as much as Riewoldt does, but if operated just between say 40m out and wing, he could probably do that. If he can't then it's unfortunate but I'd suggest he's finished as one of the premier forwards in the competition.

This is a role that both Goodes and ROK have played for us in the part - that link between defence and attack (and Hall himself has also been very good at it but infrequently & usually in a more static way). Goodes started leading up a lot more yesterday but it's literally the first time I've seen him do it all year. And ROK is forced to play closer to goals because he's the only one who remotely looks like taking a mark up there. While we don't have that option, we look like we're fielding a team comprised solely of the offspring of Ricky Mott and Paul Chambers.

[NMWBloods]

Goodness, Bloods - perhaps one of your best ever posts. Couple of comments tho:
- do you reckon he's really being double-teamed more than ever? It's something he's always had to deal with tho since last year's GF it does seem to be even more conspicuous. [BTW, a comparison of the number of times that Wakelin had to go one on one vs Hall & the number of times Leo/B2 were one on one with Rocca would be a great indicator of the difference between the 2 sides on the night]
- Does BBBH have the engine & grunt at age 30 to be doing a Riewoldt? I know he's still covering the ground but he ain't a kid anymore - I wonder how long he could play this sort of role.

I think that teams are making more effort to ensure he is always double-teamed rather than just occasionally. Opposition seems more aware of how we used to spot him up on a lead and short pass, and now cover that. Possibly also we are slower to get the ball into F50 and that gives the opposition time to get back and cover him.

Good point on the fitness aspect. I doubt Hall could run as much as Riewoldt does, but if operated just between say 40m out and wing, he could probably do that. If he can't then it's unfortunate but I'd suggest he's finished as one of the premier forwards in the competition.

[giant]

One of the big problems with Hall's game that has always been there is his inability to regularly mark in his hands. This takes away a significant weapon in the normal arsenal of power forwards.

In the past he has been able to get around that by pushing off his opponent. He can't do that now.

The other options was for the team to have a good forward structure so he could lead to the ball and mark on his chest. That is now gone too as Hall is frequently double or triple teamed and our players are unable to spot up a leading forward.

The only option I can see now is for him to play the true CHF role, a la Riewoldt; viz start at CHF on the F50 and play well up the ground, leading into space to mark on his chest about 70-90m out from goal. He would no longer be the focus for kicking goals. Instead, in the forward line we would play it more open and rely on a mix of MOL, Davis, the ruckmen, ROK, Grundy, Vogels, and some small forwards or midfielders. It has worked pretty well for other sides over time (such as the Bulldogs in recent years and even Adelaide in 97-98).

Goodness, Bloods - perhaps one of your best ever posts. Couple of comments tho:
- do you reckon he's really being double-teamed more than ever? It's something he's always had to deal with tho since last year's GF it does seem to be even more conspicuous. [BTW, a comparison of the number of times that Wakelin had to go one on one vs Hall & the number of times Leo/B2 were one on one with Rocca would be a great indicator of the difference between the 2 sides on the night]
- Does BBBH have the engine & grunt at age 30 to be doing a Riewoldt? I know he's still covering the ground but he ain't a kid anymore - I wonder how long he could play this sort of role.

[NMWBloods]

One of the big problems with Hall's game that has always been there is his inability to regularly mark in his hands. This takes away a significant weapon in the normal arsenal of power forwards.

In the past he has been able to get around that by pushing off his opponent. He can't do that now.

The other options was for the team to have a good forward structure so he could lead to the ball and mark on his chest. That is now gone too as Hall is frequently double or triple teamed and our players are unable to spot up a leading forward.

The only option I can see now is for him to play the true CHF role, a la Riewoldt; viz start at CHF on the F50 and play well up the ground, leading into space to mark on his chest about 70-90m out from goal. He would no longer be the focus for kicking goals. Instead, in the forward line we would play it more open and rely on a mix of MOL, Davis, the ruckmen, ROK, Grundy, Vogels, and some small forwards or midfielders. It has worked pretty well for other sides over time (such as the Bulldogs in recent years and even Adelaide in 97-98).

[Glenn]

For all those who think he should be dropped, why? What good would a week or two in Canberra do him

Not saying he should go to the ACTAFL, more a couple of weeks away from the game, and a chance for the niggling injuries to ease.