AFL dying in Sydney

[stellation]

I don't think that was what NMW was getting at at all. He is just saying it is a different type of supporter in the two cities, and having lived in both, I totally agree. Sydney people, generally, are not in to sport as much as we Melburnians. Look at the Melbourne Victory as another example, the crowd figures are unbelievable for a three year old team who plays a 'new-fashioned' code! (I say new-fashioned cos it kind of is in Aus). Anyways, it is not about being 'better', just about being different. It is very hard in this case because the Swans are always going to be compared to Melbourne clubs in all aspects (memberships, crowds, etc) but maybe that is just not a fair or realistic comparison to make...

No no no, NMWBloods has a long term history of being a long reach dickhead!

[satchmopugdog]

I've got the feeling just from anecdotal evidence..ie..kids I teach and people I pay to be my friends.....TV watching as a whole is on the decline..radio seems to be holding its own better than the teley..and computer stuff is taking over.

When Tv can be broadcast through your computer maybe the numbers will rise and it may have nothing to do with the AFLor Swans gameplan.

Just a random set of thoughts

[NMWBloods]

YThe viewing numbers in Sydney for all AFL teams is down, the numbers for Bloods has declined less.

Source?

[ROK Lobster]

So the game has become more like RL but is less attractive in the RL heartland? Apparentley it is entirely the fault of Paul Roos who won a premiership!!!!!

It's become more like Rugby League, which has diluted it's uniqueness. People who like league will not watch something that is a poor simulation of it, but people who liked (or may have come to like) something different - because it was not league - will be tunred away the more like league it becomes. I think the same can be said of union - it becomes more and more like league every year, and I think it is suffering because of that.

I am not sure why you consider that I am saying that it is Roos' fault. Roos and club seem to share a very similar outlook at the moment. A defensive one. I think that approach is detrimental to the development of a broader audience. It won us a priemership, but not many fans. The premiership got the band on the wagon, watching us play has shaken most of them off. People who have supported the club through thick and thin will hang around, regardless. It is pretty hard to simply change clubs becuase your team plays ordinary football, but new followers of the code and the club are not so loyal. Sure they "support" Sydney when asked which AFL team they go for, but if the product that they are served up is, drab, dull and defensive, they will go away. When the club refuses to acknowledge it, or gets very defensive about it, people turn away. It smacks of "us" and "them". I would argue, from a code development point of view (and probably from the development of a broader fan base for the club) that the gains of the premiership in 2005 have been countered by the style of play that was developed in order to achieve it, the ideology of the club that fosters it, and the bloody minded belief that it is the only model that can be succesful, despite the fact that the game continues to move on. Part of that is Roos' fault, as is most of the credit for the premiership. I do not thin that the attitude of the club on the whole can be laid at Roos' feet, unless of course we believe that the Swans really are Club Roos and that it is Paul that pulls all the strings. Apart from perhaps Paul himself, I don't think anyone believes that - except maybe those who consider he alone won the priemership and not the 21 players who contributed on the day.

[bloodboy]

blah blah blah we're better blah blah blah

When will you and your pro-Melbourne cronies wake up and smell the java? New York is the place to be!

I don't think that was what NMW was getting at at all. He is just saying it is a different type of supporter in the two cities, and having lived in both, I totally agree. Sydney people, generally, are not in to sport as much as we Melburnians. Look at the Melbourne Victory as another example, the crowd figures are unbelievable for a three year old team who plays a 'new-fashioned' code! (I say new-fashioned cos it kind of is in Aus). Anyways, it is not about being 'better', just about being different. It is very hard in this case because the Swans are always going to be compared to Melbourne clubs in all aspects (memberships, crowds, etc) but maybe that is just not a fair or realistic comparison to make...

[connolly]

With the emphasis on tackling, defensive pressure and running the ball through long series of handballs, the game is becoming more and more like Rugby League every year. Bevan supporters may love it, but the reality it is that the things that made Aussie Rules distinct, such as long kicks, contested marks and the freedom to be creative, are being diluted continually and the interest in the game is sliding. Sydney missed its chance after 2005 to cement its place as the dominant football team in Sydney, and missed the chance to further develop interest in the code in the city. Sadly, the club has, probably without realising it, adopted the Roos personality - effective, but mechanical, dull, and arrogant. From how our forwards play to interaction with the media, from the type of players we recruit to the club's interaction with the AFL, it is all about defence. A siege mentality may bond a group of players together, but it does so by fostering a culture of inclusion and exclusion. While some of the members of the club may feel included, many here certainly do (and I think that the club markets itself well to members to make them feel included), I think that TV viewers, first time spectators and "code nuetrals" have been excluded to the point of indifference.

So the game has become more like RL but is less attractive in the RL heartland? Apparentley it is entirely the fault of Paul Roos who won a premiership!!!!!

[ROK Lobster]

With the emphasis on tackling, defensive pressure and running the ball through long series of handballs, the game is becoming more and more like Rugby League every year. Bevan supporters may love it, but the reality it is that the things that made Aussie Rules distinct, such as long kicks, contested marks and the freedom to be creative, are being diluted continually and the interest in the game is sliding. Sydney missed its chance after 2005 to cement its place as the dominant football team in Sydney, and missed the chance to further develop interest in the code in the city. Sadly, the club has, probably without realising it, adopted the Roos personality - effective, but mechanical, dull, and arrogant. From how our forwards play to interaction with the media, from the type of players we recruit to the club's interaction with the AFL, it is all about defence. A siege mentality may bond a group of players together, but it does so by fostering a culture of inclusion and exclusion. While some of the members of the club may feel included, many here certainly do (and I think that the club markets itself well to members to make them feel included), I think that TV viewers, first time spectators and "code nuetrals" have been excluded to the point of indifference.

[Donners]

I'm not surprised. I was far more interested in going to and watching Swans games even back in the early 90s than I am now.

[connolly]

The TV ratings in Sydney is a massive issue and if it isn't rectified, I can't see how the AFL can expect to increase revenue in the next set of TV rights.

The worst recession since the 1930's will certainly ensure that the AFL doesn't get an increase in revenues. Until 10 and 7 get a presentation which is identified with Sydney, actually explains the rules (if that is possible) and gets rid of arse clowns like Bomb It Blight and Dumbstall the ratings in Sydney won't greatly improve.

[connolly]

Not surprising. No neutral supporter I know likes watching the Swans play so we're hardly likely to attract large amounts of interested spectators.

You couldn't be more wrong. The Bloods have a lot of interest from traditional RL supporters i know in the area i live. The viewing numbers in Sydney for all AFL teams is down, the numbers for Bloods has declined less. What the RL supporters don't like about AFL is soft matches. i believe it is the recent rules changes which has done more to turn RL supporters off AFL than anything else. The technical tiggy touchwood rules and confusing free kicks are the turn off. RL supporters do like hard intense contested football.

[stellation]

Yep - agree with Damien that it is very much an 'event' city although still keeping a solid number of sports going. There just doesn't seem to be the passion - when I worked there sports discussion were more general rather than regular and passionate like it is in Melbourne.

blah blah blah we're better blah blah blah

When will you and your pro-Melbourne cronies wake up and smell the java? New York is the place to be!

[stellation]

In all fairness to the Swans, Davis is injured.

[hot potato]

with the new stand being under construction still, the numbers at the home games have been satisfactory, but Whnthe Swans have haD A CHANCE IN PEAK PERIODS THEY HAVE PLAYED CONSTIPATED TURN OFF FOOTY, no wonder people turn it off in droves.

[NMWBloods]

Yep - agree with Damien that it is very much an 'event' city although still keeping a solid number of sports going. There just doesn't seem to be the passion - when I worked there sports discussion were more general rather than regular and passionate like it is in Melbourne.

[Damien]

going to Sydney for the first time ever last week it seemed sport in general just isn't as big a deal it is in Melbourne and Tasmania, as down in tassie we just copy the vics anyway.

Less passionate overall probably, still a big deal though. Four codes survive reasonably comfortably here with League the king quite comfortably (never let the crowd figures ever fool you, it is the number 1 sport by a country mile)

Hardcore League fans though would DIE to have what AFL has in Melbourne.

More of an event city I guess which is why the ANZ Stadium "Blockbusters" work so well generally for the Swans.