A tale of 2 Clubs and the future of AFL in Sydney

[Tom Wills]

Its is interesting to see St George emerge as one of the powerhouse clubs of the Sydney AFL.

While the Saints have always been a strong club in the under 19s and Prems, they have been missing in the middle divisions. With the addition of the Div 4 team and the second under 19s they are following the lead of the other local clubs of Norths, Penno, ES/UNSW in developing large local clubs. While its only early days these clubs are the top in Prems (North & Saints), 3rd in Div 2 (ES/ UNSW), top in Div 3 (Penno), top in Div 4 (Norths), 2nd in Div 5 (Penno), top in both under 19s (Saints). Developing large, strong, local clubs looks to be the model for success in Sydney footy.

Compare this to the Eagles. While, probably, they will again be the best team in Prems, they are bottom in Div 1, bottom in Div 3 and equal bottom in the under 19s. The East Coast committee did a great job rescuing the Premier Division club after the NEAFL experience, but you have to think they have taken a short term, Prems focused only, view. From what I hear they continue to pay their Premier Division players, yes less than the NEAFL days but they do pay them.

You would have to think that for long term success and a sustainable club the East Coast committee would have been better focusing on improving the relationships with local clubs, and improving the Under 19 / lower Division coaching support. As the Premier Division team ages, you have to think where will East Coast be in 5 years?

I am looking forward to Round 5 when the Saints play East Coast, and for the long term I would prefer to be in the Saints shoes than the Eagles.

What are your thoughts?

[saviour01]

I started up the div 4 side this year at saints because I was too @@@@ to play div 1 and figured there would surely be some guys like me around. I really though we were going to struggle to get the numbers (and even more so when we decided to field a 19s div 2 side). We had about 8 or 9 brand new guys hear about it through mates or looking it up on line but our major source of players is old (well played 1-10 years ago) who still want to have a run around (credit to brendan donohue for chasing them all up for me)

Guys like Dave Ryan, Kieran Donohue, Jackson Okunbor, Jack Guthrie, Adam Buttling, Steven Lording, Dylan Taylor, Lachlan Perris, Chris MacDougal, Michael Holmes all have prems experience with another dozen (Lawsy, Gas, Riley, Jones, Andrews boys) being handy div 1 players. My thought process was lets get these guys back having a kick, at least half will get the bug again and want to play up through the divisions. All bar a couple wouldn't make our current prems side, but if they push up to div 1 it would be a real good team. And them pushing up just pushes someone else down, makes our club stronger.

Yeh a few could do with a bit more running (myself definitely included) but its a handy team. Will be a good test against mac uni who's f/a is 370-26 so far this season.

Wynny has done a fantastic job with the academy over the past few years. Over 50 u19s regularly at training shows how well he is doing. Will be interesting to see how we go in both grades this year, a lot of the guys last year were first year 19s.

I know everyone on here loves to give it to Mudgee but he's really done heaps for the club. I guarantee our current div 1 side would have beat our prems side when he started. He's brought heaps of the kids through and we really look good this year.

I haven't seen us play ECE in a few years (no idea why) but will be interesting in round 5.

[Luke Shannon]

I think it's important to look at the three clubs who have changed the Sydney AFL scene over the last decade.

In 2006 the three strongest clubs in the Sydney 1st Division amateurs were UTS, Sydney Uni and the Manly Wolves. These three clubs were not even in Premier Division.

In 2006 the Bats won their first senior premiership while Sydney Uni was promoted to Premier Leaugue.

In 2011 the Bats were promoted to Premier Leugue followed by Manly in 2012.

Sydney Uni are now the only non AFL team in NSW in the NEAFL. Manly are a dominant Premier Leugue outfit and the Bats are steadily improving in Premier Leugue.

In the time of the rise of Sydney Uni, UTS and Manly we have seen Balmain, Wollongong and Cambeltown drop out of Premier League.

Why have these three clubs risen while the established powers have stagnated and gone backwards.

[tara]

I think it's important to look at the three clubs who have changed the Sydney AFL scene over the last decade.

In 2006 the three strongest clubs in the Sydney 1st Division amateurs were UTS, Sydney Uni and the Manly Wolves. These three clubs were not even in Premier Division.

In 2006 the Bats won their first senior premiership while Sydney Uni was promoted to Premier Leaugue.

In 2011 the Bats were promoted to Premier Leugue followed by Manly in 2012.

Sydney Uni are now the only non AFL team in NSW in the NEAFL. Manly are a dominant Premier Leugue outfit and the Bats are steadily improving in Premier Leugue.

In the time of the rise of Sydney Uni, UTS and Manly we have seen Balmain, Wollongong and Cambeltown drop out of Premier League.

Why have these three clubs risen while the established powers have stagnated and gone backwards.

What do you mean established powers?

Campbelltown joined the SFL in the 1980s and can rightly be recognised as a modern power.

Balmain have been in and out of the PD equiv and only returned to that level in 1994.

Wollongong were never an established power and in reality a short lived experiment that back fired. They were a middle of the road SFA club before moving up.

[Luke Shannon]

What do you mean established powers?

Campbelltown joined the SFL in the 1980s and can rightly be recognised as a modern power.

Balmain have been in and out of the PD equiv and only returned to that level in 1994.

Wollongong were never an established power and in reality a short lived experiment that back fired. They were a middle of the road SFA club before moving up.

What has happened to established powers like Wests and North Shore?

North Shore used to be a Superpower.

Why are the Bats defeating UNSW / Easts in Premier division?

[Norris Lurker]

Having a thirds will be great for St George. No doubt there's been plenty of people calling in at the club over the years who will never be Div 1 players; and in the past St George haven't had anything to offer them - but now they do. And those sort of people can often become the heart and soul of the club, who will stick around after their game to support the seniors.

[tara]

What has happened to established powers like Wests and North Shore?

North Shore used to be a Superpower.

Why are the Bats defeating UNSW / Easts in Premier division?

Trouble comprehending? My questions were a direct result as to your statement champ!

Bur here Ill try and answer a question as my time at Uni must have been well spent as I can comprehend a question when put to me.

Norths is pretty easy to answer - Manly finally moved up after years of domination of the SFA and diluted the talent pool. Id expect North Shore to rise again in the near future.

Wests is pretty easy - aging demographic with little juniors coming through. They compete with SU (and other clubs) and certainly dont have the facilities to compete when it comes to attracting younger players.

As for the Bats who cares? Come back when you have sustained success at that level rather than chase lower division premierships - Must be the only club in Australia to go back to back in 2014 / 15 when the premiers from the prior season were relegated rather than promoted. AFL have egg on their face for allowing that farce. Was absolutely wrapped to see your div 3 team beaten by Syd uni in the GF last year. At least they competed in a division they belonged.

[Luke Shannon]

Trouble comprehending? My questions were a direct result as to your statement champ!

Bur here Ill try and answer a question as my time at Uni must have been well spent as I can comprehend a question when put to me.

Norths is pretty easy to answer - Manly finally moved up after years of domination of the SFA and diluted the talent pool. Id expect North Shore to rise again in the near future.

Wests is pretty easy - aging demographic with little juniors coming through. They compete with SU (and other clubs) and certainly dont have the facilities to compete when it comes to attracting younger players.

As for the Bats who cares? Come back when you have sustained success at that level rather than chase lower division premierships - Must be the only club in Australia to go back to back in 2014 / 15 when the premiers from the prior season were relegated rather than promoted. AFL have egg on their face for allowing that farce. Was absolutely wrapped to see your div 3 team beaten by Syd uni in the GF last year. At least they competed in a division they belonged.

Don't put down the Bats. Norris has posted on how wonderful it is that St George are fielding a 3rd grade team and not turning guys away.

The Bats have accepted everyone since our inception. Irish guys love coming to the Bats because they will be able to experience and learn the game in a supportive environment. The word spreads and more guys come down.

The fact that the Bats field five adult teams is a credit to its culture. The Bat's don't have any junior feeder clubs. There are not enough juniors to go around Sydney Uni, UNSW and the Maroubra Saints. Auskick numbers are great in the East but the players get older and are required to play Saturday sport in the private schools.

The Bats will keep progressing. We will soon make Premier Division finals and will one day lift that cup.

What the Bats will always be is a highly supportive club. Anyone who comes to training regardless of ability is welcomed and developed. The Bats social scene is acclaimed because of its inclusiveness.

The Bats also deserve credit for the fabulous success at the lower grade level and for converting Waverley Oval into a ground that now plays AFL. It's wonderful sitting in that new stand, seeing the Ocean off Bondi and watching some compedative Bats football.

[Mug Punter]

Its is interesting to see St George emerge as one of the powerhouse clubs of the Sydney AFL.

While the Saints have always been a strong club in the under 19s and Prems, they have been missing in the middle divisions. With the addition of the Div 4 team and the second under 19s they are following the lead of the other local clubs of Norths, Penno, ES/UNSW in developing large local clubs. While its only early days these clubs are the top in Prems (North & Saints), 3rd in Div 2 (ES/ UNSW), top in Div 3 (Penno), top in Div 4 (Norths), 2nd in Div 5 (Penno), top in both under 19s (Saints). Developing large, strong, local clubs looks to be the model for success in Sydney footy.

Compare this to the Eagles. While, probably, they will again be the best team in Prems, they are bottom in Div 1, bottom in Div 3 and equal bottom in the under 19s. The East Coast committee did a great job rescuing the Premier Division club after the NEAFL experience, but you have to think they have taken a short term, Prems focused only, view. From what I hear they continue to pay their Premier Division players, yes less than the NEAFL days but they do pay them.

You would have to think that for long term success and a sustainable club the East Coast committee would have been better focusing on improving the relationships with local clubs, and improving the Under 19 / lower Division coaching support. As the Premier Division team ages, you have to think where will East Coast be in 5 years?

I am looking forward to Round 5 when the Saints play East Coast, and for the long term I would prefer to be in the Saints shoes than the Eagles.

What are your thoughts?

St George have all the building blocks in place to be a very strong club across all and many grades just like Penno, I wish them all the very best because they are a good club that do things the right way

[saviour01]

You sure do talk a lot of @@@@ about a club which has never made the top 5 in a 9 team comp.

[Luke Shannon]

You sure do talk a lot of @@@@ about a club which has never made the top 5 in a 9 team comp.

The Bats are working on making the top 5 this year. Two from two is a solid start and hopefully can be built on.

I think if the Bats can become a powerful on field club in Premier Division then success could snowball. The Bats in many ways are a destination club and could become an attractive proposition for many young players from suburban clubs. Trumper Park is on the train line, close to the city and easy to get to. Playing at grounds like Trumper Park and Waverley Oval is a beautiful experience within itself. The social and cultural base of the club is very strong. We just need to become a force at the Premier Division.

[Norris Lurker]

I've always found Trumper a bugger to find a legal parking spot. But agree on Waverley - they did a first-class job with the redevelopment there; that's a great facility and UTS did well to get on there and have that as a footy ground.