#AFL Round 15 Swans v Suns Sat 29-Jun at SCG #AFLSwansSuns @sydneyswans

[barry]

Kennelly's shoulder used to pop out all the time. Sometimes more than once during a game. They'd stick it back in and he'd carry on.

Doesn't that suggest that no two shoulders (or shoulder injuries) are the same, and that it's impossible to diagnose cause or prognosis sitting in the stand or on the couch?

Yeah, it depends on how many dislocations the shoulder has had. Kennelly's shoulder has probably been dislocating many times, and so his ligaments are loose and not to much more damage occurs. (However every dislocation causes some damage).
It looked like it was a new injury to Sinclair with the obvious discomfort he was in.

Whatever the case, it was a mistake to put Sinclair back on after a dislocation, which is proven because they didnt send him back out after the 2nd.

[Markwebbos]

I imagine also that being a ruckman is about the worst position to play with a shoulder that's liable to dislocate as you keep having to put your arm up to try and tap the ball. I could see him missing the rest of the season getting it right. Didn't Fyfe or someone have an extra bit of bone stuck on to prevent dislocation?

[Markwebbos]

It was only a mistake sending him back out if the second dislocation did further damage. Which is possible but nobody actually knows.

I'm not for a second trying to suggest anyone should refrain from the wild speculation which is the lifeblood of RWO

[Jimitron5000]

One of ex-players, Gerard Bennett had problems with his shoulders dislocating easily. From memory it got to the point where it would dislocate, then be popped back in and away he would go.

[goswannies]

I imagine also that being a ruckman is about the worst position to play with a shoulder that's liable to dislocate as you keep having to put your arm up to try and tap the ball. I could see him missing the rest of the season getting it right. Didn't Fyfe or someone have an extra bit of bone stuck on to prevent dislocation?

Actually you are more likely to sustain an anterior dislocation (the most common) attempting to tackle - as you have the full weight of a player externally rotating your shoulder - or falling onto your arm and rolling.

I’d have thought “bone” would only likely to be “stuck on” if there was a fracture or avulsion or perhaps if there was need of a tenodesis requiring bone grafting. Ralph Dawg could likely shed light on that

[goswannies]

One of ex-players, Gerard Bennett had problems with his shoulders dislocating easily. From memory it got to the point where it would dislocate, then be popped back in and away he would go.

Therein lies the problem. It’s not just the dislocation at the time. Each dislocation and subsequent dislocation further weakens the joint capsule, predisposing the shoulder to easier risk of subsequent dislocation. There will also be increased risk of labral damage (giving pain, catching and less stability), damage to the chondral cartilage of the humeral head or glenoid (predisposing the shoulder to osteoarthritis later in life), tears to tendons (particularly the rotator cuff) because of gross instability and movement, and potential neural and vascular compromise.

Ralph Dawg rightly points out that elite athletes will have different objectives to the general population. It’s a matter of risk vs reward and and player’s preferences & priorities. Medicos are very aware of this.

[KTigers]

After his shoulder went out the second time, I was kind of hoping Sinkers would go all Mel Gibson in one of those
"Lethal Weapon" movies and slam his shoulder into one of goal posts (or Dane Rampe, whichever was nearest) and put it
back in.

[goswannies]

Yeah, it depends on how many dislocations the shoulder has had. Kennelly's shoulder has probably been dislocating many times, and so his ligaments are loose and not to much more damage occurs. (However every dislocation causes some damage).

Tadhg actually had arthroscopic shoulder stabilisation surgery in 2008

[Ralph Dawg]

Actually you are more likely to sustain an anterior dislocation (the most common) attempting to tackle - as you have the full weight of a player externally rotating your shoulder - or falling onto your arm and rolling.

I’d have thought “bone” would only likely to be “stuck on” if there was a fracture or avulsion or perhaps if there was need of a tenodesis requiring bone grafting. Ralph Dawg could likely shed light on that

As far as I know, you're correct. The injuries that we deal with either straight repairs that are sutured or the insertion of anchors into the humerus to which you can then attach tendon to. These procedures are done either arthroscopically or open. Let's hope Cal doesn't need any of this because if he does, could be out for a while.........

[goswannies]

My thoughts are that it has absolutely nothing to do with his rotator cuff. You don't dislocate your shoulder when you have a rotator cuff tear

No. But you can tear a rotator cuff when you dislocate a shoulder.

and you can actually function reasonably normally, though it progressively starts to hurt more.

With a torn RC, repaired RC or a dislocation?

On a side note, with a rotator cuff operation you are in a sling for 6 weeks and then need another 6-12 weeks of physio to increase range of motion.

Generally true but it’s also surgery dependant and surgeon dependant. I work with some surgeons who, with smaller cuff repairs use a sling for 4 weeks and another who is far more aggressive with their rehab. But 1) these cases are quite specific 2) in my experience the majority of cases do dictate 6 weeks in a sling a slow/conservative rehab to respect the soft tissue healing process.

[goswannies]

And the club is - at this stage - going the conservative route & at very best back in 3 weeks although surgery isn’t excluded

Shoulder injury leaves Swans out of Sinc for three weeks - AFL.com.au

Good luck Cal & the medical staff!

[Captain]

With a torn RC, repaired RC or a dislocation?

With a torn RC.

- - - Updated - - -

And the club is - at this stage - going the conservative route & at very best back in 3 weeks although surgery isn’t excluded

Shoulder injury leaves Swans out of Sinc for three weeks - AFL.com.au

Good luck Cal & the medical staff!

I reckon they are figuring there is nothing to lose by trying for the 3 weeks rather than sending him straight off for an op. Makes sense.