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Thread: Potential Comp Re-structures for 2009 and beyond

  1. #1
    Well retired, still sore Pekay's Avatar
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    Potential Comp Re-structures for 2009 and beyond

    Thought i'd throw this on the table, it comes up every few years but i think now is the time for action...
    Based on ladder performances this year and over the last few years, i have come up with the most viable solution for all involved...
    This will get many noses out of joint i imagine, but its time for action as i said..
    The numbers that precede teams represent that club's grade

    Premier Divison
    Stays as a ten team competition
    Pennant Hills (1)
    UNSW/ES (1)
    St George (1)
    East Coast (1)
    North Shore (1)
    Sydney Uni (1)
    Wests (1)
    Wollongong (1)
    Balmain (1)
    Campbelltown (1)

    Division 1- Eleven Team Comp
    Top 6 of Prem Reserves,Top 5 of 1st Div Snrs
    UNSW/ES (2)
    East Coast (2)
    Pennant Hills (2)
    Sydney Uni (2)
    St George (2)
    North Shore (2)
    UTS (1)
    Manly Warringah (1)
    Southern Sharks (1)
    Holroyd-Parramatta (1)
    Macquarie Uni (1)

    Division 2- 8 team comp
    Bottom 4 of Prem Reserves, Top 4 1st Div Reserves)
    Wollongong (2)
    Western Suburbs (2)
    Balmain (2)
    Campbelltown (2)
    Manly Warringah (2)
    UTS (2)
    Southern Sharks (2)
    Macquarie Uni (2)


    Division 3- Nine team Comp
    Mix of Bottom 3 1st Division Snrs (The Western clubs) 5th Place 1st Div Reserves team, top 5 2nd Division teams
    Camden (1)
    Penrith (1)
    Nor-West (1)
    Holroyd-Parramatta (2)
    Sydney Uni Blue (3)
    Pennant Hills (3)
    UNSW/ES Bulldogs (3)
    Moorebank Sports (1)- note this club will more than likely field two teams from next year, if past criteria is anything to go by- Colesy??
    UTS (3)

    Division 4- 9 Team Comp
    But with potential for more ie- Sharks 3rds, perhaps a reformed St Clair??Any other standalone clubs that could potentially form as well, after all, growth is the name of the game.Mix of bottom 3 1st Div Reserves teams, rest of 2nd Div ladder
    Nor-West (2)
    Penrith (2)
    Camden (2)
    Macquarie Uni (3)
    Manly (3)
    UNSW/ES Whales (4)
    Sydney Uni Reds (4)
    Moorebank Sports (2)
    Holroyd-Parramatta (3)

    Obviously, this will strike up no amount of debate amongst the masses, but its essential for the survival of Sydney footy...I think you'll all find this will rear its head this week, its been a long time coming, and the bloke in charge now has a shi tin more foresight and vision than the last bloke...

    There is also the problem of "splitting" clubs up at some stages, but this can be worked with, as we've seen with 18s and 2nd Division over the years... there are those that make it happen and those that sit around and wait for it to happen, as a wise man nce said (Probably James Hird or Sheeds)
    I await the responses...
    Last edited by Pekay; 20th August 2008 at 11:48 PM. Reason: Tidy it up a bit

  2. #2

    Old News...

    Pekay,

    The President before me and myself came up with this proposal in 2003. We have been pushing for the league to implement it for 5 years. Finally.....

  3. #3
    Comp should stay as is.

    What would work better is to allow premier league teams to use 1st division sides as a feeder club.

    Premier league reserve should be of a much higher standard. Think (for once) if the comp when down what has been suggested, you have one team in premier league and your 2nd team is 2-3 divisions below.

    How would a player adapt to such a gap?
    Imagine an injured player coming back through 3rd division?
    What if you have 5-6 injuries in premier division?
    etc....

  4. #4
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    Any idea that has seniors and reserves being split and playing at different grounds on the same say is bad and should be forgotten.

    I assume you suggest promotion and relegation because form is temporary?

  5. #5

    Correct Humphrey.

    Should push to make premier league stronger.
    Even forget promotion/relegation.

    Only if league expands then look for proposals. We

    If we were to split, expect even less people at games (not that there are any now), less volunteers and less players willing to jump grades.




    Quote Originally Posted by humphrey bear View Post
    Any idea that has seniors and reserves being split and playing at different grounds on the same say is bad and should be forgotten.

    I assume you suggest promotion and relegation because form is temporary?

  6. #6
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    If promotion and relegation was to work, it should have more criteria than just the premier of one division going up and the wooden spooner going down.
    A well-run club that is having a bad year on the field would be devastated by relegation, while a club being promoted risks being out of their depth in their new division. The league?s Club of the Year points system could be helpful here ? as well as the on-field component, a club would also need to achieve a pre-agreed minimum number of Club of the Year points to be eligible for promotion; while a team that reaches a threshold of Club of the Year points and has not forfeited any games would have immunity from relegation.

    Follow me on Twitter - @tealfooty

  7. #7
    Promotion & Relegation doesnt work, look at Wollongong. They have a great administration but on field they have been hopeless.

    As Humphrey wrote, its disaster on club resources when you could have the sides playing at different venues on the same day.

    .

  8. #8
    Commentary Team Captain BeeEmmAre's Avatar
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    It seems like there are a lot of people who are only considering Premier League when they make their replies to Pekay's suggestion.
    That competition (at senior level anyway) is as healthy as it has been in the three years I've been here.
    However, I've had a lot of opportunity to see First Division this season and there are a lot of problems that IMO can only be fixed by doing something like that.
    Otherwise you are going to find clubs going under. We at Nor-West are fairly healthy numbers wise but that wasn't the case only two years ago, while Moorebank is fighting to get their second team back, Penrith can't get anyone to travel to away games and Camden has improved all year but did have to forfeit a game.
    I don't think it would be that hard to ensure all of a clubs teams played at home on the same day, and it could be arranged that if they have to be separated on away games, the venues could be close enough together to get it to work.
    "It's up to the rest of the players in the room to make a new batch of premiership players next year," Adam Goodes, triple Bob Skilton Medallist, October 7, 2011.

    YOU BETCHA!!!!!!

  9. #9
    Well retired, still sore Pekay's Avatar
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    My thoughts exactly...The Premier Division Seniors is the benchmark, it doesnt need changing..you see the odd, rare blowout, but it has always been cyclical. Wasn't that long ago that Balmain went back-to-back, and Campbelltown were the unstoppable force, so much so that they had to go to Canberra to compete.
    This is geared to the other 4 comps..Gong were beaten by 30 plus goals by Penno recently, and C'Town by about the same by East Coast in Reserves. C'Town have even forfeit a few games this year, unheard of in the top tier. Give them a chance to be competitive against the strong 1st Div Ressies teams like Manly and UTS, and blokes would show up for a game, week in, week out.
    Conversely, i'm sure the Prem 2s teams of East Coast, UNSW/ES, Penno et al would welcome the top 1st Div Seniors teams to the fold, a different kind of football, but alot more even comp than the ones we are seeing them compete in now.
    I know first hand, that succuess on field brings success off field. Sure, someone has to prop up the bottom of the table, but not the same clubs every year. After we won our first 2nd Div flag in 05, so many players came back to the club, players that knew they had a chance to compete. After the second flag and our promotion back to 1st Div, we even attracted a few of the St Clair players over to us, who wanted that opportunity (granted, two went to Parra, and one is playing off scratch after taking up golf) but it works.
    As for the comment of 'feeder clubs' for Premier Division, we have an affiliation set up with East Coast this year and beyond, which is helping both clubs, but the suggestion that players playing '2 and 3 grades below what they're used to' and 'how would they cope' is inaccurate. Any top player from East Coast seniors that misses a run in Seniors goes to their ressies, a grade below their usual. We get players from East Coast, but mainly those that fail to get selected in Reserves, so the jump is only one level, maybe two if we were put in the grade i have suggested. Even then, you're only as good as the footy you're playing.
    Try and start thinking of the lower grades in Sydney, as this is where a majority of the players are. Prems wouldn't have players like Al Richardson Rod Craig or Alex Lee if it wasn't for the likes or Penrith, Cronulla or Manly, so it works both ways.
    If something drastic doesn't happen soon, and next year should be a very realistic option, then alot of the hard work done by the true workers in Sydney Footy, particularly out west, will be lost forever. The West clubs are the ones 'fighting on the frontline' against the other sports, keep this in mind.

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=Pekay;406006]Thought i'd throw this on the table, it comes up every few years but i think now is the time for action...
    Based on ladder performances this year and over the last few years, i have come up with the most viable solution for all involved...
    This will get many noses out of joint i imagine, but its time for action as i said..
    The numbers that precede teams represent that club's grade

    [ Division 2- 8 team comp
    Bottom 4 of Prem Reserves, Top 4 1st Div Reserves)
    Wollongong (2)
    Western Suburbs (2)
    Balmain (2)
    Campbelltown (2)
    Manly Warringah (2)
    UTS (2)
    Southern Sharks (2)
    Macquarie Uni (2)


    Looks ok Pekay, but shorely Camden, Nor West and Penrith Seniors could compete against the above reserves sides
    The edge is not the limit, It's just the starting point...

  11. #11
    The lowest div a player coming back from injury from a Premier Div Senior side would play is 2nd div, which is no diff a standard to reserves now. The hardest thing would be the logistics of trainers etc.
    The edge is not the limit, It's just the starting point...

  12. #12
    Well retired, still sore Pekay's Avatar
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    Thats probably one of the greatest concerns, with teams split over a weekend, trainers being a vital part of game day preparations, but it something that can be overcome. If the League think about it, we have two grounds at Bensons Lane that surface wise would be the equal of any ground in Sydney, surely a full day of football (starting at 8 or 10am and finishing at 4pm, even under lights on the main ground with a lighting upgrade) is feasible. Thats 8 games over 2 grounds from 8 til 4pm, seems alright for me (just a matter of sending out umpires, which havent existe in Ressies this year out this way)
    You're from C'Town arent you Pace? Do you think you'd get more back to your magoos if there was more chance of a win every week?
    And for the record, looking at UTS & Manly's 2s, they would compete against the senior teams of our comp, i'm sure others would agree. I have chosen the teams in their respective divisions according to ladder position this year, and taken into account the last few years also. A natural progression for Nor-West at end of 2006 (when we left 2nd Div) would've been to "Tier 4" being 1st Div Reserve Grade, as you can see from last two years results , we have only two wins 27 losses(with Manly this week would expect it to be 28 barring a miracle-call me defeatist if you will, but i call it realism) but thankfully, and i'm proud of the fact, no forfeits. So a natural fit would be the "tier 4" under the new structure.
    For those involved in admin at their clubs, i'm sure you checked your emails this week and know whats coming up, i'm just preparing my club (and the gamein Sydney i'd like to think) for the future...

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