2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Agreed, but the ruck position is the one most prone to injury. Hence it requires the most cover. That’s why I think we need another genuine ready made ruckman and then rotate them so they all get a certain number of games. This way, we would also minimise the risk to injury. Someone like Choi would be great!

Can you think of any successfull examples of a pair of genuine ready made ruckman rotating in and out of the side? I can't at the moment.
I'm not saying it can't happen, but like unicorns and a successfull coaching succession plan, they're not very common.

FWIW I think that scarcity is due to the intrinsic nature of ruckmen. One of them has to be #1 and until that is determined to their satisfacion, they will keep on contesting, and sometimes get hurt doing so, sort of like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKHUZ1K3JHY.

The ruck remains the last truly atavistic position left in AFL.

Even when damaged they usually try to play hurt rather than yeld their pre-eminance even temporarily. Ian Stewart once commented that if a doctor declared Barry Round dead, he would seek a second opinion. Round had to play because in his mind the next best ruckman at the club was never going to be as good as he was even when injured - even if that other ruckman had a Brownlow medal. There's a bit of that in all genuine ruckmen.

That competativeness also applies with playing two genuine ruckmen in the same team. Harmonious co-existance depends on an unassailed pecking order being established. And even then it usually results in the 2nd ruckman performing at less that their full capability - most often by trying to pass themselves off as a key forward (a bit like painting stripes ona Giraffe and telling it that it's a zebra).

The only exeptions I can think of seems to be if one ruckman is close to retirement (Jolley/Ball). Or if the second ruck is not a serious challenge to #1 (Mummy/Pike).

Hickey will be 31 by the start of next season, so we could bring in another genuine ready made ruckman and have them coexist - if he was young enough (early 20's) and confident that his time was immanent.

[Aprilbr]

"The ruck remains the last truly atavistic position left in AFL."

Nice word, Ruckn Roll! I would be pretty confident that this is the first time that word has ever been used on this forum!

The current trend is clearly for teams to play just one genuine ruckman with a backup forward option. Its been that way for several seasons now. However, trends change and who knows what will be rhe case down the yack? Two rucks were certainly common one decade ago.

[bloodspirit]

"The ruck remains the last truly atavistic position left in AFL."

Nice word, Ruckn Roll! I would be pretty confident that this is the first time that word has ever been used on this forum!

I couldn't resist checking. It turns out you're nearly right. The same word was used by the RnR in July 2004, also in a trading context:

"I think discussions of player trades brings out the most atavistic comments from Swans fans,
Just imagine what the fans of Richmond, Collingwood etc. must be like in this mode."

[bloodspirit]

I'm in the camp that thinks we need to bring in at least one more ruck. And maybe two if Sinclair departs.

I also agree that we should favour a pure ruck over a ruck-forward like Chol. We should only draft a ruck-forward if we first draft a pure ruck and the other recruit is better than Amartey. I think Chol is better than Amartey.

I like various of the names that have been thrown up (like those AB mentioned). I don't think that Ceglar is a daft suggestion but a younger, heir-apparent type would be preferable.

Also agree that KPP is another strong need. Again, I'd be glad if we got more than one e.g. a trade in plus Paddy McCartin.

I am not convinced we will be insignificant in the trade period again this year. While we certainly will be relying primarily on the team we have built, I think now is the time to start topping up and refining it. Importantly this means thinking about who, with currency, we might be prepared to trade out - not just who we would like to get in.

Hewett is one name that has been thrown up - but we would be looking a bit unprepared to face JPK's retirement if we don't also get another strong inside player in. Florent is a fine player but perhaps not indispensable? I'd be a bit nervous about trading him because he hasn't hit his ceiling yet but I'm mindful that you've got to give something to get something. Plus our team is a little light on for experience and we can't easily afford to be giving up a player who is approaching 100 games.

[i'm-uninformed2]

I'm in the camp that thinks we need to bring in at least one more ruck. And maybe two if Sinclair departs.

I also agree that we should favour a pure ruck over a ruck-forward like Chol. We should only draft a ruck-forward if we first draft a pure ruck and the other recruit is better than Amartey. I think Chol is better than Amartey.

I like various of the names that have been thrown up (like those AB mentioned). I don't think that Ceglar is a daft suggestion but a younger, heir-apparent type would be preferable.

Also agree that KPP is another strong need. Again, I'd be glad if we got more than one e.g. a trade in plus Paddy McCartin.

I am not convinced we will be insignificant in the trade period again this year. While we certainly will be relying primarily on the team we have built, I think now is the time to start topping up and refining it. Importantly this means thinking about who, with currency, we might be prepared to trade out - not just who we would like to get in.

Hewett is one name that has been thrown up - but we would be looking a bit unprepared to face JPK's retirement if we don't also get another strong inside player in. Florent is a fine player but perhaps not indispensable? I'd be a bit nervous about trading him because he hasn't hit his ceiling yet but I'm mindful that you've got to give something to get something. Plus our team is a little light on for experience and we can't easily afford to be giving up a player who is approaching 100 games.

So let's talk about Ollie. Personally, I'd keep him. He had some good games, particularly early in the year, and has otherwise been ok - but no more.

I'd like the coaches to find a way to get more out of his talent. They seem to have stopped throwing him into the centre square (where he didn't look comfortable). As an outside player, he doesn't break the lines the way a JMac or even Blakey is starting to. He's also yet to truly impose himself on a big game.

Depending on list management etc, here's the competition for midfield spots come 2023 (post Kennedy): Parker, Mills, Heeney, Hewett, Chad, JB, Dawson, Gulden, JMac, Stephens, maybe Sheather, maybe Campbell (only say maybe on those two as haven't played seniors there), even Blakey back on a wing. Plus, whatever comes in next two drafts. So the pressure is on.

But you watch what Parish and Merrett did yesterday, or what JMac does on a weekly basis now, and hope that is what Ollie aspires to. Parish himself is evidence some blokes take longer than others, so there is still time, and he has a lot to offer if he gets it right. And I hope he succeeds. I just sometimes find him a little frustrating because I think he can be even better.

[Faunac8]

Just wanting to confirm something I have seen a couple of posters use JB as an abbreviation for one of our players now on first seeing it I assumed James Bell but it appears this may be in fact be intended to a reference to James Rowbottom ?
If so is it just a typo or am I missing something obvious ?

[Ruck'n'Roll]

"Importantly this means thinking about who, with currency, we might be prepared to trade out - not just who we would like to get in."

Never a truer word, and collectively we're not very good at this bit.

We have plenty of enthusiastic suggestions on trading this or that fringe player (while simultaneously expecting to receive an All Australian and two first rounders in compensation) - but we are lot less sanguine when is comes to trading players that have actual currency.

So I cannot commend you highly on biting the bullet and actually suggesting a plausible option in Ollie (fwiw I don't agree) - so Thanks

George H has been suggested a number of times, but we shopped him around to no result last off season - and his currency probably won't have skyrocketed on the back of the current season.

[The Runner]

Jordan Dawson holding off contract talks for the end of his break out season has to be the most genius move in footy for some time. He's going to get paid.

[AB Swannie]

Just wanting to confirm something I have seen a couple of posters use JB as an abbreviation for one of our players now on first seeing it I assumed James Bell but it appears this may be in fact be intended to a reference to James Rowbottom ?
If so is it just a typo or am I missing something obvious ?

I sometimes use "RB" for Rowbottom but never "JB".

[AB Swannie]

"Importantly this means thinking about who, with currency, we might be prepared to trade out - not just who we would like to get in."

Never a truer word, and collectively we're not very good at this bit.

We have plenty of enthusiastic suggestions on trading this or that fringe player (while simultaneously expecting to receive an All Australian and two first rounders in compensation) - but we are lot less sanguine when is comes to trading players that have actual currency.

So I cannot commend you highly on biting the bullet and actually suggesting a plausible option in Ollie (fwiw I don't agree) - so Thanks

George H has been suggested a number of times, but we shopped him around to no result last off season - and his currency probably won't have skyrocketed on the back of the current season.

I think it is more likely that clubs use high draft picks as currency rather than players. In our situation, I can see us being able to secure a younger ruck like Meek, Hayes, or Lynch using only draft picks.

I don't think Florent will be traded but I agree that he has stalled in his progress and is not irreplaceable.

[bloodspirit]

How quick is Sheather? If he keeps coming along, could he be a less plodding option in the midfield? Does he have the power to burst away from stoppages like Chad? We know Brayden is quick but it's unclear what his role will be both short term and longer term.

[The Runner]

How quick is Sheather? If he keeps coming along, could he be a less plodding option in the midfield? Does he have the power to burst away from stoppages like Chad? We know Brayden is quick but it's unclear what his role will be both short term and longer term.

He'll probably come in as more of a defensive forward like Wicks. He's quick, and incredibly strong. But not a ball finder at this stage.