2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[mcs]

Please TB- is there a need to use such language for an AFL player, even if he plays for one of our rivals! He is a very talented player though just like Toby Green, we might feel like giving him one when we play against him but there’s no denying he would be a great acquisition if he wanted to come.

Personally, I don’t think that would be the case but you ever know!

Not commenting on the original post, but I really dislike the term 'flog' - for me its a completely meaningless piece of footy slang that I've never really understood. Most terms meant to not be flattering at least have some obvious connotation to tell you why players aren't liked. But I've always my head about that one. I hated how it was thrown around a lot during the Goodes issue almost at will, despite it really having very little defined meaning to it. Just call someone a @@@@ bloke and be done with it lol

[mcs]

This has been a pretty lively discussion on list management for this time of year. I agree with some suggestions and disagree with others, which is what you would expect. Here are a few thoughts as things today:

• We don't need any more midfielders. Despite the adage, you certainly can have too many midfielders. And if you keep them too long, they will go elsewhere, which I suppose fixes the problem in an uncontrolled manner, like Treloar leaving Collingwood.
• If we are arguing now about how to get Stephens, and when fit, Campbell and Gulden into the senior side, then we are pushing the limits for quality midfielders. We aren't sacrificing quality when we bring in any of these youngsters.
• There are several B grade midfielders that need to be carried for depth. These are players who are good enough to be in the side who can play a role and not hurt the team. I would put Clarke and Taylor in this group. I think it's worth keeping them on the list.
• We do need a stronger mix with KPPs. We may have a lack of quality or perhaps just a lack of clarity. and what I mean by that is we still need to see how things unfold this year to get a better idea if we can go forward with players like Amartey and Brand, or do we need to look for replacements.
• We can strengthen our KPP stocks by drafting Paddy McCartin. I don't think his indiscretion should be a factory. One bad moment shouldn't mark or break a career.
• I think we can forget recruiting a pricey quality forward this year. It's better for us to wait until 2022 to entertain this sort of idea. Buddy's big contract will be done and we should have more bargaining power. We also buy time and see how McDonald, McLean, Raid, Amartey and Paddy McCartin pan out in a post Buddy era. It might turn out to be a pretty strong group of key forwards, We will have a better idea next year and more options in play as well.
• With Hickey playing so well and Naismith fit again, it's not the time to recruit a ruckman like Hayes of CCJ, who are ready to play now and not in a few years time. We could look to recruit an 18 or 19 yo in the draft to replace Sinclair. I prefer to put this decision off until year end when we can reevaluate our ruck stocks, especially on the injury front.
• I wouldn't be looking to cut or draft many players this year. Perhaps only 2 from the ND. I think Gray will be delisted, Ronke will either be traded or delisted and Hewett is likely to go FA or be traded. There's a good chance that there will be a couple more cuts, but it's too early to say who.
• I would love to have Harry McKay or Weiderman on our list, but they are out of our price range and timing is not right, noted earlier.
• The best end of season recruiting option that I see would be Mabior Chol, which I mentioned in earlier posts. He's far from the best, but offers the most potential for a low cost forward/ruck who should be available. He would allow us cut Sinclair, so replacing a 3rd ruck option and backup forward with a younger one.
• If Brand isn't good enough to remain on our list, I would like us to recruit a ~2 mtr. KPD. With so many monster forwards going around these days, I feel that we need a really big key back, like Andrews or Darcy Moore, to match it with them. It seems a bit crazy that Rampe gets those kind of assignments, and usually doesn't do a bad job at it either.
• Go to the draft using our 1st two draft picks. Pick best available.

That's my take too broadly ludwig. I do think we will look to find a younger project ruck - but maybe the young guy playing reserves will be seen as enough of a long term prosepct not to.

[Bloods05]

Not commenting on the original post, but I really dislike the term 'flog' - for me its a completely meaningless piece of footy slang that I've never really understood. Most terms meant to not be flattering at least have some obvious connotation to tell you why players aren't liked. But I've always my head about that one. I hated how it was thrown around a lot during the Goodes issue almost at will, despite it really having very little defined meaning to it. Just call someone a @@@@ bloke and be done with it lol

Amen to that.

[bloodspirit]

This has been a pretty lively discussion on list management for this time of year. I agree with some suggestions and disagree with others, which is what you would expect. Here are a few thoughts as things stand today:

• We don't need any more midfielders. Despite the adage, you certainly can have too many midfielders. And if you keep them too long, they will go elsewhere, which I suppose fixes the problem in an uncontrolled manner, like Treloar leaving Collingwood.
• If we are arguing now about how to get Stephens, and when fit, Campbell and Gulden into the senior side, then we are pushing the limits for quality midfielders. We aren't sacrificing quality when we bring in any of these youngsters.
• There are several B grade midfielders that need to be carried for depth. These are players who are good enough to be in the side who can play a role and not hurt the team. I would put Clarke and Taylor in this group. I think it's worth keeping them on the list.
• We do need a stronger mix with KPPs. We may have a lack of quality or perhaps just a lack of clarity. and what I mean by that is we still need to see how things unfold this year to get a better idea if we can go forward with players like Amartey and Brand, or do we need to look for replacements.
• We can strengthen our KPP stocks by drafting Paddy McCartin. I don't think his indiscretion should be a factory. One bad moment shouldn't mark or break a career.
• I think we can forget recruiting a pricey quality forward this year. It's better for us to wait until 2022 to entertain this sort of idea. Buddy's big contract will be done and we should have more bargaining power. We also buy time and see how McDonald, McLean, Raid, Amartey and Paddy McCartin pan out in a post Buddy era. It might turn out to be a pretty strong group of key forwards, We will have a better idea next year and more options in play as well.
• With Hickey playing so well and Naismith fit again, it's not the time to recruit a ruckman like Hayes of CCJ, who are ready to play now and not in a few years time. We could look to recruit an 18 or 19 yo in the draft to replace Sinclair. I prefer to put this decision off until year end when we can reevaluate our ruck stocks, especially on the injury front.
• I wouldn't be looking to cut or draft many players this year. Perhaps only 2 from the ND. I think Gray will be delisted, Ronke will either be traded or delisted and Hewett is likely to go FA or be traded. There's a good chance that there will be a couple more cuts, but it's too early to say who.
• I would love to have Harry McKay or Weiderman on our list, but they are out of our price range and timing is not right, noted earlier.
• The best end of season recruiting option that I see would be Mabior Chol, which I mentioned in earlier posts. He's far from the best, but offers the most potential for a low cost forward/ruck who should be available. He would allow us cut Sinclair, so replacing a 3rd ruck option and backup forward with a younger one.
• If Brand isn't good enough to remain on our list, I would like us to recruit a ~2 mtr. KPD. With so many monster forwards going around these days, I feel that we need a really big key back, like Andrews or Darcy Moore, to match it with them. It seems a bit crazy that Rampe gets those kind of assignments, and usually doesn't do a bad job at it either.
• Go to the draft using our 1st two draft picks. Pick best available.

I agree we may prefer to wait to chase a big or biggish name KPP until the end of next season when our salary cap will open up so much - but also depends on taking opportunities when they present.

I don't agree about only taking 2 picks at the ND. I think we definitely take at least 3. In fact, isn't that the rule? Either way, particularly in a year where the draft is meant to be strong, I think we want to take at least 3.

I agree we want a younger ruck-forward to replace Sinclair. However, they don't have to be a third stringer. If they're good enough, they can be best 22 because we don't have a ruck-forward at the moment. (I am not prepared to call Blakey a second ruck even if I support him being among a mix of players to take some ruck contests while we don't have a second ruck. And I wouldn't even classify Reid that way, even though he is also someone that can take a few ruck contests - and is a better option to do so than Blakey). Longer term, that player could also fill the space that Reid's departure will create i.e. a forward line in a few years could be McDonald, McLean (assuming he continues on his current trajectory) and a player that can relieve in the ruck (unless McLean can become that player). Daniher would actually have been perfect to fill that role.

I think Mabior Chol is a worthy suggestion, and his team mate, Callum Coleman-Jones is another possibility. Both are out of contract at the end of this season. Chol was a rookie draft selection and CCJ a high draft pick. Tigers fans on BF seem keener on CCJ. Of the two, I possibly lean to Chol because he seems more versatile and agile whereas CCJ would be more similar to McLean. But I don't really feel qualified to say since I don't follow RFC, let alone their VFL team. Incidentally, I note that Richmond do have an abundance of rucks. First there's Nank, then, probably, Soldo (currently long term injured). After that you currently have Chol and CCJ, but they are both more ruck-forwards (which is what I think we could use to replace Sinclair). And then they have the following additional players listed as rucks on their website: Biggie Nyuon, Mate Colina (a Cat B rookie giant taller than Coxzilla) and Samson Ryan (206 cm, taken at pick 40 2020 ND). That's a lot of depth - they can definitely afford to spill some ruck depth - and the continued drafting of additional rucks doesn't suggest a high degree of confidence in their 2nd and 3rd stringers.

[bloodspirit]

I accidentally posted this to the VFL thread, but it belongs here:

AFL Draft 2021 Chris Doerre Knightmare's - mid-season draft top 10 Power Rankings (espn.com.au)

Mid-season draft is just two weeks away today. In this preview, Schlensog, and possibly Avery, catch the eye although I've never heard of them before.

Like Button Notice (view)

[barry]

Sciliy would make us a flag favourite. Back the truck full of cash up to his place.

[707]

Every club has to take a minimum three players at the draft but that can be reduced by upgrading rookies. a number of teams over previous years have used just one pick at the draft.

We have a first and a second rounder, no third which was used in the inspired trading for Hickey. Current our third pick is a fourth rounder pick 68 so it won't be used.

Not much doubt that we'll upgrade McLean and Wicks from the rookie list at end of season.

As for delisting of fringe/ressie players, Squizzy has a 2022 contract, Gray definitely doesn't and I don't thing Clarke has a contract either. I can't see us making big list changes this year.

[rb4x]

McLean and Wicks are not rookies. Our two rookies are Carruthers and O'Connor.

[liz]

McLean and Wicks are not rookies. Our two rookies are Carruthers and O'Connor.

We have more than two rookie listed players. I think we must have 5 Cat A, since we are listed as having a spare spot, and the maximum is 6. Fox and Gray were specifically moved to the rookie list from the senior list at the end of last season to open up spots in the National Draft. Carruthers was then taken in the rookie draft. That means two out of McLean, Amartey and Wicks must also be rookies.

We also have two Cat B rookies in O'Connor and Sheather.

Apart from the Cat B list, the distinction is a bit ridiculous nowadays.

[Bangalore Swans]

Is Luke Parker still to commit to the Swans beyond 2021?

Is he holding out for a big free agency offer?

He is 29 next year. Is he looking out for a substantial 3 year offer from Victoria?

What draft compo could the Swans get if he exercised his rights?

Are a young bulls (Warner, Rowbottom, Mills) ready to potentialy replace him?

[TheBloods]

Is Luke Parker still to commit to the Swans beyond 2021?

Is he holding out for a big free agency offer?

He is 29 next year. Is he looking out for a substantial 3 year offer from Victoria?

What draft compo could the Swans get if he exercised his rights?

Are a young bulls (Warner, Rowbottom, Mills) ready to potentialy replace him?

Now ive seen everything !

Parker isnt going anywhere will be our captain for the next TWO YEARS at least !

[Velour&Ruffles]

Not commenting on the original post, but I really dislike the term 'flog' - for me its a completely meaningless piece of footy slang that I've never really understood. Most terms meant to not be flattering at least have some obvious connotation to tell you why players aren't liked. But I've always my head about that one. I hated how it was thrown around a lot during the Goodes issue almost at will, despite it really having very little defined meaning to it. Just call someone a @@@@ bloke and be done with it lol

My thoughts exactly. Bad associations.