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Thread: Academy uproar rears again

  1. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejavoodoo44 View Post
    Yes, there was almost the insinuation, that the academy was something like a soviet era institution, where talented ten years olds were sent to be modelled into footballing automatons. Whether they liked it or not. Rather than the reality, of kids getting an extra few hours of footy practice, with some quality coaches, while they continue to play for their regular team during football season.
    C'mon, we can let reality get in the way of a good old fashioned southern footy media beat-up.

  2. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    I have some sneaky sympathy about access to the top end talent - ie I'm not sure (purely on the basis of draft equity, ignoring the fact the competition is far from a level playing field in other aspects) we should have been able to draft both Campbell and McDonald. But the fact we got Gulden at 32, and thus kept next year's draft currency intact, is purely down to the other clubs. I was staggered he lasted to 32.

    Predictably, one of the first questions Horse was asked in his post-game interview was about the benefits the club has reaped from the academy system. His immediate answer was (paraphrased) " I should think so. It costs us a lot."

    I'm also surprised by how little the football commentators seem to understand about how the academies are set up. Dermot commented during the broadcast that it was amazing that a player could be identified at age 10 as a potentially elite footy player. But of course that's not how it works. One hundred or so boys join the academy each year. Around 30 or so (maybe fewer this year) last beyond age 15. Of those, half a dozen might make it as far as the U18 Allies team in the National Championships. And one or two might then make it onto an AFL list. (More probably should, than have, but hopefully that will gradually change.)

    Dermot has worked with the Giants so I am surprised he, of all commentators, isn't more knowledgeable.
    I have absolutely no sympathy. Trying to draw equivalence between the dodgy NGAs and the Swans Academy is an exercise in fraud. There is no comparison between what the Swans Academy and the NGAs. How many players have they actually developed? How many have they actually converted to the sport? Differentiating players based on their parentage/nationality should have nothing to do with it. They typically like to forget that AFL is the dominant sport in Victoria by a mile. It is the most contrived system possible to give Victorian Clubs an unfair advantage in obtaining players that would have ben drafted even if the NGAs did not exist.

    The northern clubs have every right (and need) to run proper academies and not be penalised for it. The AFL must not be swayed by the parochialism of the Vic clubs. The norther clubs are not exactly dominating the competition as yet (Lions success is on the back of years of bottom finishes, the Giants success is based on concessions that have ceased and their success may not last very long, as for the Suns ) . Perhaps they had better wait until there is a clear imbalance with the northern clubs dominating before getting concerned about the competition. If the northern clubs do start dominating then they have achieved one of their main objectives of growing the game.
    We have them where we want them, everything is going according to plan!

  3. #15
    Many people from Victoria seem to think the Academies are endless pots of gold.

    They overlook the fact that the academy’s can force the clubs into some political choices as opposed to pure football talent.

    1) Non serious bids. Years ago a 2nd round bid was made by Fremantle on Jack Hiscox an academy prospect. I don’t think many people thought Hiscox was 2nd round standard. The Swans matched the bid to keep the faith in the academy system. Hiscox was let go two years later and the 2nd round pick was a bust. The Swans were forced into that decision to maintain the faith for upcoming academy players like Mills, Blakey, Guldon and Campbell.

    2) The academy process compels the Swans to draft AFL level talent regardless of positional needs. At the end of this year the Swans may need a young ruckman, a tall defender and an inside midfielder. The AFL standard players available to draft may be two flankers. The Swans would be compelled to draft the two flankers and not draft for positional needs. The Swans already have plenty of flankers.

    3) We lose non Academy players due to backing academy players. We prioritised Heeney and Mills over Tom Mitchell. We lost Tom Mitchell as a result. We are currently backing Campbell, Blakey and Guldon ahead of Dylan Stephen’s. Without the presence of Blakey, Guldon and Campbell there would be more opportunity for Stephen’s to play his preferred position.

  4. #16
    I heard Jared Crouch's interview on SEN who went into detail how kid's like Gulden and Campbell are identified as 10 year olds. They start off with several hundred 10yo's and that number gets get dwindled done over the years as they mature. As well as improving their footy skills, they're also taught professionalism in all aspects. Gulden apparently stood out at as a 10yo. Jared emphasized it's alot of hard work (and $$$$) running these Academy programs as their net scours many schools in their Academy zones.

  5. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bangalore Swans View Post
    Many people from Victoria seem to think the Academies are endless pots of gold.

    They overlook the fact that the academy’s can force the clubs into some political choices as opposed to pure football talent.

    1) Non serious bids. Years ago a 2nd round bid was made by Fremantle on Jack Hiscox an academy prospect. I don’t think many people thought Hiscox was 2nd round standard. The Swans matched the bid to keep the faith in the academy system. Hiscox was let go two years later and the 2nd round pick was a bust. The Swans were forced into that decision to maintain the faith for upcoming academy players like Mills, Blakey, Guldon and Campbell.

    2) The academy process compels the Swans to draft AFL level talent regardless of positional needs. At the end of this year the Swans may need a young ruckman, a tall defender and an inside midfielder. The AFL standard players available to draft may be two flankers. The Swans would be compelled to draft the two flankers and not draft for positional needs. The Swans already have plenty of flankers.

    3) We lose non Academy players due to backing academy players. We prioritised Heeney and Mills over Tom Mitchell. We lost Tom Mitchell as a result. We are currently backing Campbell, Blakey and Guldon ahead of Dylan Stephen’s. Without the presence of Blakey, Guldon and Campbell there would be more opportunity for Stephen’s to play his preferred position.
    Yes, the closest that the academy program has got to producing a key position player, are Abe Davis and Hamish Ellem: both of whom are running around in the SANFL.

    There's also a few academy players that we didn't pick up, who then went to other AFL clubs. The most recent example being Luke Parks, who's now at Carlton.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KTigers View Post
    C'mon, we can let reality get in the way of a good old fashioned southern footy media beat-up.
    Coming soon to the Herald Sun: Academy Death Camps.

  6. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBloods View Post
    **** em

    Did Jamarra, Isaac quaynor, Connor downie, Tarryn Thomas etc just come from nowhere ? Vic supporters would STFU then
    My thoughts exactly. How much time and money was spent developing those players?

  7. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel_C View Post
    My thoughts exactly. How much time and money was spent developing those players?
    Well, the Melbourne clubs would have had to employ people to go to junior games, to identify indigenous kids and promising types with non-anglo names.

  8. #20
    So I live in NZ at the moment, and my 15yr old is playing in the AFL Academy over here. Its tiny and the players are very raw - nothing to write home about really.

    However, they play a game each year against a touring Mornington Peninsula selected squad. A bunch of 14-15yr kids, the absolute cream of the crop from west of Melbourne, come over for a couple of games.

    To say those Aussie kids are unbelievably skilled is an understatement. At least 5-6 of them each year could (talent wise, not body size) step into most teams across the AFL. Not only do they have talent and already well over 100 games of experience at 14, but they are professionally coached. THAT is what the Sydney teams have to compete with. THAT sort of talent identification and skill building simply DOES NOT exist without the Northern Academies. These kids are in a club and community system that has been refined over a hundred years, and churns out talented footballers constantly.

    The simple reality is that over the past decade, only a handful of players from NSW are taken each year in the draft. Take out the ones the Swans and GWS pick, and the ones linked to Academies, and suddenly you are down to something you can count on one hand. From the largest state in the country. That is not going to grow the game, nor ensure that the very best talent is running out every weak. Mills, Heeney, Gulden have all openly now stated they would not be playing AFL had it not been for the Academy. Indeed, only Blakey would have been a certainty to play without it.
    Last edited by HeeneyIsAGun; 23rd March 2021 at 08:49 PM.

  9. #21
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    I had to laugh.
    During Offsiders last Sunday, Caroline Wilson noted our game and added that she expects the various CEOs to be wingeing and bellyaching about the Academy. She knows her footy alright!
    He reminds him of the guys, close-set, slow, and never rattled, who were play-makers on the team. (John Updike, seeing Josh Kennedy in a crystal ball)

  10. #22
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    The animosity towards the northern academies really just helps stunt the development of the game. Like it or not, without more
    interest in the game in NSW (especially) and Qld, the AFL is always just going to be half a national comp. More players from
    NSW and Qld help grow the game. I was reading the Swans membership is down around 30% from where it was in 2017.
    This can't be good.

  11. #23
    The key argument for the Northern academies is to grow the game in those states. Its not about cost or go home factor etc. So when players like Guilden or Heeney say that they would probably be playing soccer in Sydney or rugby league in Newcastle respectively then this is gold for justifying their existence.

    One question that I have is why has the Swans academy seemingly been more successful than the other northern academies? The Giants academy has access to the rich pickings of the Riverina and so they have done quite well out of it. However, Brisbane and Gold Coast appear to have been less so despite active junior competitions in QLD.

    The next generation academies are a total free kick for Victorian clubs in much the same way that the father-son rule has yielded great success for clubs like Geelong. Some of those pickups like Quaynor and the last number one draft pick were playing AFL anyway and would have been drafted regardless of the presence of these so-called next gen academies.

  12. #24
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    https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode?id=806422 Round 1 NAB Rising Star Errol Gulden on Dwayne's -- Sydney Rising Star nominee "would have played soccer" if not for Swans Academy

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