There will be a Sydney Swans AFLW team in the 2022-23 season

**Maltopia** · 26th July 2022, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by KTigers

I would have thought that male members of mens sporting teams have been referring to their teammates as "boys",
and female members of womens sporting teams have referring to their teammates as "girls" since the dawn of time.
I don't think there is anything sinister or untoward about it. I think it's almost a term of affection between teammates.
And not meant to mean they think their teammates are children.
I suppose if the womens league is called the AFLW then maybe the mens league could become the AFLM.
It wouldn't bother me. But it's hard to see it happening anytime soon.

The concern that was voiced was primarily around Errol Gulden, a man referring to the players as girls. A man meaning well I am sure, without any sinister intent, and maybe under the pressure of an unscripted media session.

Meaning well does not mean it doesn’t have an impact. Language and marginalisation can happen through subconscious unintended prejudice and norms. It doesn’t have to be through malicious intent.

I refer to racism as a parallel, not to make it a culture war and say it is just as bad. The Collingwood players who called H Lumumba a chimp a decade ago thought it was harmless fun and a term of affection for super talented player. It took him and Indigenous team mates a decade to speak up about it.

If teammates want to refer to each other as girls that is one thing.

Supporters and staff who are male referring to the players is different.

Using your argument KTigers, it is the AFLW, not the AFLG.

And there were plenty who raised concerns at the time that the AFLW name was sexist as they were also AFL players and the men’s completion was not being renamed AFLM.

Tennis handle it a bit better with a men’s tour under the ATP (and Challenger) and the women’s tour under the WTA and ITF.

**KTigers** · 26th July 2022, 12:08 PM

Clearly the Collingwood club effectively condoning calling Lumumba a chimp is just appalling. Even Buckley making light of it shows he
is so stupid he doesn't even know how stupid he is. It's like the other night we watched "The Final Quarter" and in it there is Garry Lyon
saying one moronic thing after another. His only plus was that he was not "as bad" as Sam Newman. Football is full of these types of
people. They have reached middle age and then some and have learnt nothing about the world. There is no hope for them.
Errol is what? 20, right. He is a kid basically. He is not a man. I'd give him a free pass for now. If he is smart enough he'll learn. If he's
not, he won't.
Re the name of the womens league. Yeah sure maybe they should change it to something without the "W". Call it NAR (National Australian
Rules) or FAR (Federation of Australian Rules). People will figure it out. Hopefully.

**Maltopia** · 26th July 2022, 03:06 PM

I think our club can do better.

AFL and AFLW players come together at MCG in celebration of historic milestone

For the men, some teams sent captains, high draft picks, stars or exciting talent. Eg the Bont, Selwood etc.

We sent an injured player who had a brain snap and punched a down player on the ground.

Yes Paddy Ryder is also injured, but at least he is not a lesser light like Ladhams.

**Goal Sneak** · 26th July 2022, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Maltopia

I think our club can do better.

AFL and AFLW players come together at MCG in celebration of historic milestone

For the men, some teams sent captains, high draft picks, stars or exciting talent. Eg the Bont, Selwood etc.

We sent an injured player who had a brain snap and punched a down player on the ground.

Yes Paddy Ryder is also injured, but at least he is not a lesser light like Ladhams.

Now this just seems as if you're actively looking to create issues to complain about and push the line that the whole Club is sexist.

**stevoswan** · 26th July 2022, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Maltopia

The concern that was voiced was primarily around Errol Gulden, a man referring to the players as girls. A man meaning well I am sure, without any sinister intent, and maybe under the pressure of an unscripted media session.

Meaning well does not mean it doesn’t have an impact. Language and marginalisation can happen through subconscious unintended prejudice and norms. It doesn’t have to be through malicious intent.

I refer to racism as a parallel, not to make it a culture war and say it is just as bad. The Collingwood players who called H Lumumba a chimp a decade ago thought it was harmless fun and a term of affection for super talented player. It took him and Indigenous team mates a decade to speak up about it.

If teammates want to refer to each other as girls that is one thing.

Supporters and staff who are male referring to the players is different.

Using your argument KTigers, it is the AFLW, not the AFLG.

And there were plenty who raised concerns at the time that the AFLW name was sexist as they were also AFL players and the men’s completion was not being renamed AFLM.

Tennis handle it a bit better with a men’s tour under the ATP (and Challenger) and the women’s tour under the WTA and ITF.

Look I'm sure you mean well.....but that just sounds preachy and superior.....as if others can't see what you see. Like you underestimate everyone else. I think we all get it and don't need to be told. Sorry.

Again, I'll wait for the women to say something.....if they deem it worthy.....but I don't think I'll be holding my breath for it. Of course, if they do, I'll respect their wishes.....because they want it.
.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Goal Sneak

Now this just seems as if you're actively looking to create issues to complain about and push the line that the whole Club is sexist.

+1

**TheBloods** · 26th July 2022, 05:24 PM

Christ , i came in here hoping to find some info on when the girls start , instead its just back and forths . Why ?

Liz said she felt bothered by using the word girls . I would use the word girls as some of them are the same age as my granddaughters who i still remember dropping off at kindergarten ! But thats me . Not my place or anyone elses place to tell Liz how she should feel about it . Instead everyone gets cranky . If you disagree fine . Give your opinion and move on , dont bludgeon someone over the head fod having a different opinion to you !

Now when the F do the games start , i want to get to some ,

**stevoswan** · 26th July 2022, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by TheBloods

Christ , i came in here hoping to find some info on when the girls start , instead its just back and forths . Why ?

Liz said she felt bothered by using the word girls . I would use the word girls as some of them are the same age as my granddaughters who i still remember dropping off at kindergarten ! But thats me . Not my place or anyone elses place to tell Liz how she should feel about it . Instead everyone gets cranky . If you disagree fine . Give your opinion and move on , dont bludgeon someone over the head fod having a different opinion to you !

Now when the F do the games start , i want to get to some ,

It hasn't been Liz doing the pontificating.

PS: I have highlighted the words that may also apply to you......re: RB. Always look within.....

**Maltopia** · 26th July 2022, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Goal Sneak

Now this just seems as if you're actively looking to create issues to complain about and push the line that the whole Club is sexist.

Not my intent, but I fully own that if that is how it has come across, that is my fault.

I like to comment on stuff.

I don’t at all think the whole club is sexist. I just think we could have sent someone of higher standing.

Then again it may also be a personal development thing for Ladhams too.

**Ruck'n'Roll** · 26th July 2022, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by TheBloods

Give your opinion and move on , dont bludgeon someone over the head fod having a different opinion to you !

If only you'd taken that bit of advice youself sometime in the last two years.

**liz** · 26th July 2022, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by Maltopia

Not my intent, but I fully own that if that is how it has come across, that is my fault.

I like to comment on stuff.

I don’t at all think the whole club is sexist. I just think we could have sent someone of higher standing.

Then again it may also be a personal development thing for Ladhams too.

You haven't been pontificating. You have been patiently responding to what people have actually said. I've thought about jumping in on occasions but figured you were likely being more dispassionate than I might be, and drawing on your professional expertise.

It is clear (to me) that despite protestations to the contrary, some people don't remotely "get it".

But it is nice to know that we girls don't have to make this journey all on our own.

Re Ladhams, I initially had a similar reflex response to you when I read that article. But to be fair to the club, most of the players from non-Victorian sides are injured players. Certainly the two from Perth and King from Gold Coast. I'm wasn't aware that Ryan Lester, Brodie Smith or Lachie Jones were injured but I just checked the teams from the weekend. Lester and Jones didn't play, Smith did (against us, so I maybe should have known that). Like it or not, Ladhams is probably the most high profile of our injured players at the moment (O'Riordan, Naismith and Sheather being the only others - I think).

Maybe it wouldn't have been that big a deal in normal times for one of the experienced, high-profile players to take a day off training to represent the club. But I imagine they don't want to unnecessarily expose anyone to commercial airline travel right now. It's not the only COVID-risk situation, but it is an avoidable one.

**Mel_C** · 26th July 2022, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Maltopia

I think our club can do better.

AFL and AFLW players come together at MCG in celebration of historic milestone

For the men, some teams sent captains, high draft picks, stars or exciting talent. Eg the Bont, Selwood etc.

We sent an injured player who had a brain snap and punched a down player on the ground.

Yes Paddy Ryder is also injured, but at least he is not a lesser light like Ladhams.

I understand where you're coming from but Bont and Selwood live in Victoria. They don't have to miss training/meetings etc like one of our captains/stars would have. Ladhams was a senior player who was injured so was available to travel. I noticed Melbourne sent Ben Brown who is also injured and they train just down the road.