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Thread: Changes for Rd 13 vs Hawthorn

  1. #133
    Captain of the Side Captain's Avatar
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    Stephens and Blakey are surely a long way ahead of Bell.

  2. #134
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    The premise that there's no difference to the teams chanced with Bell or Taylor as the 22nd player is ridiculous.

    Even if you were to ignore the eye test (any average joe blow can see that Taylor is clearly the superior player), the numbers don't lie.
    Bell averages 7.9 possessions per game (yes I know he has been activated sub), 0.4 goals, and 3.3 tackles
    Taylor averages 17.2 possesions, 0.8 goals and 2 tackles

    Could this make a difference tonight? You bet it could.

    The old chestnut that Horse and the MC know more than we do will come out, but they're the same people who recently extended Naismith until the end of 2022 without him even getting on the park this year.

  3. #135
    Stephens had a total metres gained of 20 metres the last time he played senior football against Carlton. For an outside player, that is horrible and should mean a decent stint in the 2s. I too would've picked Taylor ahead of Bell but am not so incensed as others on here. I'm especially surprised about the reaction given that Taylor has been a whipping boy ever since we signed him.

  4. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain View Post
    Stephens and Blakey are surely a long way ahead of Bell.
    Hi Captain, i had a similar thought, both top 10 picks with huge talent. Im sure if you asked John Longmire who his long-term priorities would be he would say those two over Bell! But they might be best served in the reserves right now, they are still raw and developing and being in and out of the seniors won't do them a lot of favours!

  5. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by AB Swannie View Post
    Stephens had a total metres gained of 20 metres the last time he played senior football against Carlton. For an outside player, that is horrible and should mean a decent stint in the 2s. I too would've picked Taylor ahead of Bell but am not so incensed as others on here. I'm especially surprised about the reaction given that Taylor has been a whipping boy ever since we signed him.
    Stephens has struggled this year. Surprising after he went from strength to strength with every senior game last year!! Perhaps second year blues!! My biggest question mark over him is that for an inside outside midfielder like Kelly, i wonder if he has much of a grasp of the outside game at all? Even some inside mids like Rowbottom and Warner picked up the outside game better than Stephens. Could he just be a pure inside mid after all ?

  6. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by caj23 View Post
    The premise that there's no difference to the teams chanced with Bell or Taylor as the 22nd player is ridiculous.

    Even if you were to ignore the eye test (any average joe blow can see that Taylor is clearly the superior player), the numbers don't lie.
    Bell averages 7.9 possessions per game (yes I know he has been activated sub), 0.4 goals, and 3.3 tackles
    Taylor averages 17.2 possesions, 0.8 goals and 2 tackles

    Could this make a difference tonight? You bet it could.

    The old chestnut that Horse and the MC know more than we do will come out, but they're the same people who recently extended Naismith until the end of 2022 without him even getting on the park this year.
    Firstly - your stats prove the point of why Bell was likely selected. More forward half pressure and tackling. Taylor getting 12-13 touches tonight wouldn't be that impactful. And therefore, yes, we are debating over two players who likely wouldn't dramatically impact the game.

    Secondly - we have no idea on the Naismith situation, or the contract he was on. I don't think that's a fair comment at all.

  7. #139
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    I'm happy with the Bell selection, especially as he'll get a full game to demonstrate his wares. Both Stephens and Blakey have had a few chances and not really nailed them. They will be offered more chances, but they also need to earn them.
    It's very hard to live in a studio apartment in San Jose with a man who's learning to play violin. That's what she told the police when she handed them the empty revolver.
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  8. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain View Post
    Stephens and Blakey are surely a long way ahead of Bell.
    On what basis?

  9. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain View Post
    Stephens and Blakey are surely a long way ahead of Bell.
    Definitely not Blakey. He's already been gifted close to 50 senior games without offering much (bar an occasional flash of brilliance that then suddenly collapses into chaos). My personal opinion is that he really needs a solid stint in the twos and work on putting some consistency into his game. He has been gifted to much and we definitely have the depth and injury list now to let him play and seriously develop in the ressies.
    Last edited by longmile; 11th June 2021 at 04:55 PM.

  10. #142
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    Firstly Taylor averages 17, why downplay it to 12-13? If we are going on numbers, surely its not hard understand that 17 possessions is better than 8? Those extra 1.3 tackles Bell provides would want to be pretty special forward pressure. If the 22nd player has no impact as you suggest, we might as well just select McAndrew and save a few $$'s. I'd love it if Bell plays a blinder tonight and proves he belongs at senior level, but I hope we're not in here bemoaning a close loss and no meaningful contribution from him.

    Secondly, its not just the contract extension this year, it was the 3 year deal before that for a guy who had just had his second knee reconstruction and had already had a horrible history of injuries. We could've drafted and developed a ruckman over that time, or even better traded for the Hickster and had use of him for the last few season (OK I know the second bit is stretching it a bit!!). As it stands we will have a 30 year old ruckman who has been on our list for 8 years for a total of 30 games at the beginning of next season. The chances of him ever playing a senior game are virtually zero. This is not me being a hindsight hero, I've said the same thing plenty of times over the last few seasons. It's poor list management, simple as that.

    *This is not a personal slight on Sam, he seems like a great guy and a popular member of the club and has the been the victim of bad luck

  11. #143
    [QUOTE=caj23;820535]Firstly Taylor averages 17, why downplay it to 12-13? If we are going on numbers, surely its not hard understand that 17 possessions is better than 8? Those extra 1.3 tackles Bell provides would want to be pretty special forward pressure. If the 22nd player has no impact as you suggest, we might as well just select McAndrew and save a few $$'s. I'd love it if Bell plays a blinder tonight and proves he belongs at senior level, but I hope we're not in here bemoaning a close loss and no meaningful contribution from him.

    Secondly, its not just the contract extension this year, it was the 3 year deal before that for a guy who had just had his second knee reconstruction and had already had a horrible history of injuries. We could've drafted and developed a ruckman over that time, or even better traded for the Hickster and had use of him for the last few season (OK I know the second bit is stretching it a bit!!). As it stands we will have a 30 year old ruckman who has been on our list for 8 years for a total of 30 games at the beginning of next season. The chances of him ever playing a senior game are virtually zero. This is not me being a hindsight hero, I've said the same thing plenty of times over the last few seasons. It's poor list management, simple as that.

    *This is not a personal slight on Sam, he seems like a great guy and a popular member of the club and has the been the victim of bad luck[/QUOTE
    I'm with you on both points Caj23.

    Taylor is a vastly superior player to Bell and has been our best player in 2's by a long shot this year. I find it frustrating that some on here keep going on about his lack of fitness and butchering of the posession. If they had watched every VFL game this year (I have) they would've noted that Taylor runs out all games well and has been good with his disposal. I think some just parrot a particular line about players without having really watched them play. Let's put it this way, if Stephens was churning out the quality Taylor has, there would literally be a riot from most on here due to his non selection. But when it's Squiz, the usual "oh he's too fat" or "he's unfit" or "he butchers the ball" gets wheeled out.

    Re Sam, I was shocked when we signed him to a 3 year contract after all the injuries he had had with us and appalled when he was extended to 2022 last year. I don't care how good a bloke he is. Let's just hope he's on a very low base and it was down to salary cap management.

  12. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain View Post
    Stephens and Blakey are surely a long way ahead of Bell.
    No doubt, Captain. But both are down on form and don’t deserve to be picked at the moment. A solid stint in the ressies is the go for them. Regarding Bell- Squizzy might have been preferred on a dry night and he certainly has earned a recall based on consistent performances in the two’s. But tonight, Bell has the physicality and that may explain his inclusion. Hope Squizzy will get his chance soon but in the meantime go Jimmy!

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