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Thread: Match Thread. Swans v Hawthorn

  1. #397
    Travelling Swannie!! mcs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    On its own I don't think it says anything about fitness. It just says that a player is working up to the limit of his fitness, whatever that might be.
    As always Liz, you put it far better than me - I meant within that broader context of where his limits are at this point in time.
    "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

  2. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBloods View Post
    Im not expecting great games from him every week. One would do. He is 37 games into his career now and not one of them have been great. Has never even had over 25 touches which should be a achievable at least once or twice if your an inside mid. Never had a coaches vote, never had a Rising star nomination , most outside the swans fans wouldnt know who he is

    These arent everything but they are usually a good indication of what a player can become . Max king for example wont kick bags every week but has had a few here and there that suggest he could be a great forward. Noah anderson was quiet on the weekend but has had some great games to suggest what sort of a player he'll be. We havent seen anything of that sort from Rowbottom yet , just moments here and there. The most concerning part as i mentioned is that he was not prolific as a junior either , his record shows he was only averaging 21 disposals as an inside mid so not great signs that we can expect him to become a dominant player
    BT midway through the 3rd quarter was commenting that Rowbottom was doing a good 2nd half job of slowing down Tom Mitchell. BT in the next sentence said that Rowbottom can do those lock down roles.

    That comment was coming from someone who knows Rowbottom’s game very well and probably watched him play a lot at junior level.

    Maybe he’ll become a better version of that Freemantal tagger Ryan Crowley.

  3. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by mcs View Post
    Its just the same old ramblings that we've seen all season from someone that has already written him off, fed him to the wolves, hung drawn and quartered him and then thrown him off the Sydney Harbour Bridge.

    As always, all most would like to see is for consistency about how young players are assessed. For others, they are marked with a free pass because of the style of play, the dynamism of their approach, or whatever other term is this weeks phrase of the week, while a target few are subject to excessive micro-scrutiny of every single little thing - just like this week's absurd focus on hands on the knees at stoppages.

    More nuanced comments such as yours recognise that he is like any other young player, will be up and down at times, and will have better and worse games. But that there seems to be a plan, as there invariably is for young players that have talent and need time and experience to develop and to find where the ceiling may be.

    For every player that 'bursts' on to the scene, there are just as many that take a long time to reach anywhere near their ceiling. Some of the absolute best players in the modern era fit that profile, as I've said many times on here before. I'm not saying Rowbottom will reach such a level, but would not suprise me if in 2 or 3 years time his career trajectory rapidly takes off either - the building blocks are broadly there.

    Maybe the majority will be proven wrong and nostradamus can live out their days saying 'told you so' excessively and at every living moment. But maybe not. Far too early to tell.

    You only have to look at the McHack episodes all those years ago to see how it can all just 'click' even after an extended period of inconsistency and promising moments only early in a career. And statistically, Rowbottom is doing just fine in the role he is playing for the stage at his career he is at.
    Im not certain that criticism of Rowbottom is isolated to TheBloods or even just to this site. I have heard similar opinions shared by other people in person and on the internet. I saw some nasty discussions about him on IG the other day. I dont wish to speak on his behalf (not sure TB is a man but he has mentioned his wife before so just assuming here!!) but I think he has been clear that his gripe with Rowbottom is that he doesnt see much in him talent-wise (not an unreasonable view) and so he expects him to make up for that by being prolific (perhaps an unreasonable view) and when he doesn't then he isn't worth giving games to (definitely an unreasonable view)

    I can see why one would look at Rowbottom and not see enormous ability, especially compared to some other young swans on our list. He doesnt have much athletically and he would be the first to say that. A nice little shot of acceleration off the mark but that is about as quick as he gets. His ball use leaves a lot to be desired and I have already said that i don't think he has that natural arrogance in his game to try anything spectacular. As Bangalore points out even BT his own uncle sees tagging as a potential niche for him, and you wouldn't say that about a premium youngster.

    Hoping he will get more of the ball seems an unfair expectation to hold Rowy to though. On the one hand TheBloods thinks he is at his best when he is being a defensive player. Tackling, pressuring etc. But focusing on those things means you wont get as much of the ball. So it seems TheBloods is mad at Rowy for doing the few things he thinks he is actually good at doing. Oxymoron perhaps??

    And it is most definitely unreasonable to call for him to be dropped! For all of the cases where we can point to Rowy getting pushed off too easily there are several other times a match where he sticks a ferocious tackle that few others in the team could do! Where he uses that little acceleration i spoke of to lay a smother or at least pressure the opposition. And though they have been a bit few and far in between, he can have moments of individual brilliance that most certainly help the team! Perhaps in the future if our midfield ends up with as many talented young mids as we hope, maybe Rowy does get pushed out. Maybe he becomes a tagger or he is moved to defence or he is dropped. All possibilities! We're a long way from that though! As of right now he is nowhere near our worst player each week!! I haven't loved what i've seen from him this year but we have FAR bigger problems than Rowbottom! (Not that we are going bad at all!!)

    CHEER CHEER

  4. #400
    On a brighter note ... what a wonderful surprise Amartey has been!! Interestingly he started both games quietly and grew into each game! That is a very promising sign! He is not letting quiet and nervous starts get him down and is still finding his confidence!! Often it can be the opposite for young players! Bravo young man!

  5. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by NeonBible View Post
    Im not certain that criticism of Rowbottom is isolated to TheBloods or even just to this site. I have heard similar opinions shared by other people in person and on the internet. I saw some nasty discussions about him on IG the other day. I dont wish to speak on his behalf (not sure TB is a man but he has mentioned his wife before so just assuming here!!) but I think he has been clear that his gripe with Rowbottom is that he doesnt see much in him talent-wise (not an unreasonable view) and so he expects him to make up for that by being prolific (perhaps an unreasonable view) and when he doesn't then he isn't worth giving games to (definitely an unreasonable view)

    I can see why one would look at Rowbottom and not see enormous ability, especially compared to some other young swans on our list. He doesnt have much athletically and he would be the first to say that. A nice little shot of acceleration off the mark but that is about as quick as he gets. His ball use leaves a lot to be desired and I have already said that i don't think he has that natural arrogance in his game to try anything spectacular. As Bangalore points out even BT his own uncle sees tagging as a potential niche for him, and you wouldn't say that about a premium youngster.

    Hoping he will get more of the ball seems an unfair expectation to hold Rowy to though. On the one hand TheBloods thinks he is at his best when he is being a defensive player. Tackling, pressuring etc. But focusing on those things means you wont get as much of the ball. So it seems TheBloods is mad at Rowy for doing the few things he thinks he is actually good at doing. Oxymoron perhaps??

    And it is most definitely unreasonable to call for him to be dropped! For all of the cases where we can point to Rowy getting pushed off too easily there are several other times a match where he sticks a ferocious tackle that few others in the team could do! Where he uses that little acceleration i spoke of to lay a smother or at least pressure the opposition. And though they have been a bit few and far in between, he can have moments of individual brilliance that most certainly help the team! Perhaps in the future if our midfield ends up with as many talented young mids as we hope, maybe Rowy does get pushed out. Maybe he becomes a tagger or he is moved to defence or he is dropped. All possibilities! We're a long way from that though! As of right now he is nowhere near our worst player each week!! I haven't loved what i've seen from him this year but we have FAR bigger problems than Rowbottom! (Not that we are going bad at all!!)

    CHEER CHEER
    The 2005 premiership team was built on defensive midfielders. Mathews, Crouch, Kirk, Fosdyke and Ablett.

    Rowbottom would have been perfect in that time.

    I still don’t know how these guys beat a midfield of Kerr, Cousins, Judd and Cox? Two Brownlow medallist’s, the best ruckman of the era and in Kerr a brilliant player.

  6. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by NeonBible View Post
    Im not certain that criticism of Rowbottom is isolated to TheBloods or even just to this site. I have heard similar opinions shared by other people in person and on the internet. I saw some nasty discussions about him on IG the other day. I dont wish to speak on his behalf (not sure TB is a man but he has mentioned his wife before so just assuming here!!) but I think he has been clear that his gripe with Rowbottom is that he doesnt see much in him talent-wise (not an unreasonable view) and so he expects him to make up for that by being prolific (perhaps an unreasonable view) and when he doesn't then he isn't worth giving games to (definitely an unreasonable view)

    I can see why one would look at Rowbottom and not see enormous ability, especially compared to some other young swans on our list. He doesnt have much athletically and he would be the first to say that. A nice little shot of acceleration off the mark but that is about as quick as he gets. His ball use leaves a lot to be desired and I have already said that i don't think he has that natural arrogance in his game to try anything spectacular. As Bangalore points out even BT his own uncle sees tagging as a potential niche for him, and you wouldn't say that about a premium youngster.

    Hoping he will get more of the ball seems an unfair expectation to hold Rowy to though. On the one hand TheBloods thinks he is at his best when he is being a defensive player. Tackling, pressuring etc. But focusing on those things means you wont get as much of the ball. So it seems TheBloods is mad at Rowy for doing the few things he thinks he is actually good at doing. Oxymoron perhaps??

    And it is most definitely unreasonable to call for him to be dropped! For all of the cases where we can point to Rowy getting pushed off too easily there are several other times a match where he sticks a ferocious tackle that few others in the team could do! Where he uses that little acceleration i spoke of to lay a smother or at least pressure the opposition. And though they have been a bit few and far in between, he can have moments of individual brilliance that most certainly help the team! Perhaps in the future if our midfield ends up with as many talented young mids as we hope, maybe Rowy does get pushed out. Maybe he becomes a tagger or he is moved to defence or he is dropped. All possibilities! We're a long way from that though! As of right now he is nowhere near our worst player each week!! I haven't loved what i've seen from him this year but we have FAR bigger problems than Rowbottom! (Not that we are going bad at all!!)

    CHEER CHEER
    Some good points Neon- but guys, aren’t we focusing on RB a bit too much? There are 22 plus players in our team/ squad so why are we (or some of us) keep talking so much about 1 player?

  7. #403
    Out of Bounds on the Full Goal Sneak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bangalore Swans View Post
    The 2005 premiership team was built on defensive midfielders. Mathews, Crouch, Kirk, Fosdyke and Ablett.

    Rowbottom would have been perfect in that time.

    I still don’t know how these guys beat a midfield of Kerr, Cousins, Judd and Cox? Two Brownlow medallist’s, the best ruckman of the era and in Kerr a brilliant player.
    The 05 team was stacked with great forwards and defenders. Hall, O'Loughlin, Davis and ROK all firing up front. C Bolton, Barry, Kennelly & LRT locking down back.

    Ball was in great form in the ruck all that year and was super important.

    Throw Goodes in (in Brownlow form) and you got yourself the makings of a drought breaking premiership team.

    The 05 mids were tough. They always gave their all. They played to their strengths and they were not going to let anyone stop them.

    That 2005 team was special. I know exactly how they beat all those guys.

  8. #404
    [QUOTE

    I still don’t know how these guys beat a midfield of Kerr, Cousins, Judd and Cox? Two Brownlow medallist’s, the best ruckman of the era and in Kerr a brilliant player.[/QUOTE]

    Don't do drugs. Drugs are bad.

  9. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Roadrunner View Post
    Some good points Neon- but guys, aren’t we focusing on RB a bit too much? There are 22 plus players in our team/ squad so why are we (or some of us) keep talking so much about 1 player?
    I am with you!! I enjoy the discourse both in praise and criticism but it does feel like some (Rowy, Chad, Blakey, Hickey) attract one or the other more than others!! Just earlier i tried to get some love for the young man Amartey going.. Nobody took the bait!!!

  10. #406
    Veterans List Ludwig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandwagon View Post
    I think our depth in midfielders isn't great.
    I have to respectfully disagree, bandwagon. Even with a few injuries, and I don't think there are all that many, I still find players in the reserves who can come into the side. Maybe some are working on their development at the moment, like Stephens and Blakey, but the depth is really good. We just have so many young midfielders who have years to go before they reach peak form. We have to be patient, but I think we will see our midfield grow in strength, year over year, for some time to come. George Hewett has been a favourite of mine for long time (2014 LFS winner), but I'm finding it hard to find a place for him in the side and have suggested he should exercise FA this year. That suggests our midfield has plenty of depth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadrunner View Post
    ....aren’t we focusing on RB a bit too much? There are 22 plus players in our team/ squad so why are we (or some of us) keep talking so much about 1 player?
    It's ridiculous how over-analyzed the Rowbottom thing has become. He's a solid player on a good trajectory who may be having a slightly down period due to playing through an injury.

    Lloyd, Hewett, Florent, Cunningham an Hayward have all taken a lot over flack the years, but have emerged intact and making solid contributions on a consistent basis.

  11. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeonBible View Post
    I am with you!! I enjoy the discourse both in praise and criticism but it does feel like some (Rowy, Chad, Blakey, Hickey) attract one or the other more than others!! Just earlier i tried to get some love for the young man Amartey going.. Nobody took the bait!!!
    I'll take your bait. He's highly impressive and looking more and more like a BIG prospect.

  12. #408
    One thing I have noticed with young players is how the attitude of fans changes over time. When they start they are a shiny new thing. Any slight whiff of talent is heralded as the sign they will be the greatest player. A sub 10 disposal game is a great start, showing huge potential. Other players who deliver more should be immediately dropped for them.

    Then there is a quiet patch whilst the young player becomes more of a regular in the team.

    Then the expectations change. Anything other than outstanding play is unacceptable. People forget that the young player often has a less than glamorous role. Niggles are ignored. The player is weak, soft or incompetent and in the fans view showing why he can't make it at AFL level. Anything under 20 disposals is unacceptable.

    Rowbottom is in this bad phase. Gulden and Warner are in the honeymoon period.

    I watched Rowbottom's extended highlights on the AFL stats pro website. He clearly had a defensive job on Worpel and Mitchell. He did not have a great game but executed his role. He is not going to do anything flashy in this situation. I imagine if he had an attacking midfield role it would be different.

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