Best 22 Round 1 2022

[TheBloods]

I am not comparing players at their peaks. Rowbottom is already pretty close to JPK in what he contributes to the team. By the end of next year he should surpass him, simply because Rowbottom is improving with age while JPK is declining with age. It's not that I think Rowbottom will ever reach JPK's top level. Time will tell, but unlikely given what a great player JPK has been.

It's also the change in team game style, which is not well suited to JPK's strengths. It's similar to the reasons why we let George Hewett go. It's not that he was a poor player, but rather we want more players on the ground who can move the ball quickly.

Jpk averaged 24 disposals this yr , Rowbottom averaged 16. In 40 odd games hes only had 24 disposals ONCE . Miles off . If he plays he 'll be used as a tagger so you can forget him getting 24 touches . Not bashing him i am just stating facts his numbers dont lie .

I dont want to get into it again i know he is a sensitive topic on here and i think we 've had a productive debate about it today , all i will say is that if you think RB is suited to our game style we must be watching different players

[Auntie.Gerald]

If rowbottom had to play a role like JPK ie dominant ball winner...............is that right...... the comparison being made above ?

[Thunder Shaker]

Wolftone is right. Kennedy cannot chase down even a slow player. Once they're past him, they're gone. He's still a powerful ball winner at stoppages with good skills all around. He's certainly worth a list spot, but I don't think he fits in the team going forward.

Place JPK in the forward line and keep him there. He would be able to win the ball at forward-line stoppages and kick a few goals. This tactic has worked well for other aging star players at other clubs.

Yes, he would not be able to chase down most players running out of the backline, but there will be another 17 players on the ground, some of whom can do that duty.

[Ludwig]

Place JPK in the forward line and keep him there. He would be able to win the ball at forward-line stoppages and kick a few goals. This tactic has worked well for other aging star players at other clubs.

Yes, he would not be able to chase down most players running out of the backline, but there will be another 17 players on the ground, some of whom can do that duty.

I agree. He's very hard to stop 1 on 1. He's like Dustin Martin, who doesn't chase either.

[Bloods05]

Oh, just stop it, mate.

Hear, hear.

[mcs]

Oh, just stop it, mate.

We still have months of this bollocks to put up with yet Will someone smash the record player already so we don't have to hear the same old track over and over and over and over and over and over. We know how the story goes - we get it, and we don't need to hear it for the umpteenth opportunity.

Cant wait till the record skips onto the next track at some point and we can say 'thank god for that'.....

[Maltopia]

We still have months of this bollocks to put up with yet Will someone smash the record player already so we don't have to hear the same tired old track over and over and over and over and over and over.

No one has to fully read any post they think is a tired old track.

Let TB say what he has to say as long as he is respectful, and I think he has been when expressing his view that RB is not ahead of JPK. He hasn’t said that RB is useless etc, he has just clarified that he doesn’t rate him when accused of hating him.

I think we are in a wonderful situation when we are debating who is on our first 22 and we are considering whether or not RB, JPK Warner, (and McDonald) make the first team and have no clear candidates to drop/replace.

Imagine if Bell and Wicks keep improving, along with BOC, Fox, Stephens, Gould and we might get another Gulden from the draft who can be first 22 in their first year!

We lost Dawson and Hewitt and it doesn’t seem that bad at all!

[mcs]

No one has to fully read any post they think is a tired old track.

Let TB say what he has to say as long as he is respectful, and I think he has been when expressing his view that RB is not ahead of JPK. He hasn’t said that RB is useless etc, he has just clarified that he doesn’t rate him when accused of hating him.

I think we are in a wonderful situation when we are debating who is on our first 22 and we are considering whether or not RB, JPK Warner, (and McDonald) make the first team and have no clear candidates to drop/replace.

Imagine if Bell and Wicks keep improving, along with BOC, Fox, Stephens, Gould and we might get another Gulden from the draft who can be first 22 in their first year!

We lost Dawson and Hewitt and it doesn’t seem that bad at all!

Just frustrating to see another thread go down the same rabbit warren that about 50 others have in the past 12 months, that's all. If it was one post here and there - fine. But every time it ends up in pages of circle work, time and time again, reflecting a mission seemingly to convert the masses at every opportunity. And while more recent efforts have been far more respectful, some of the utter tripe posted at various times this year was really not..

Anyway broadly back on topic. Our depth is looking good as you say. But I also suspect we may not be so lucky with a good run with injuries (just my sense, but felt like in broad terms this year we had a decent run - noting a few notable injuries along the way.), so it may be tested. And I suspect, as you always see with young players, some that starred this year in their first year might struggle a bit next years.

Going to be interesting to see what we do at the draft pick wise - we have a lot of options give some of other moves, notably finding a solution to the immediate ruck challenges we were going to face in the trade period.

[sharp9]

I’ve been re-watching the long highlights from this year (victories only) and after the first five games a few things have really surprised me. Well three things actually
1) Rowbottom is really, really good. I know he drifts out of games and made quite a few mistakes, but the highlights are awesome
2) Wicks is super. A couple of his goals are just magnificent. Some here have been suggesting that he is a vanilla forward pressure type only. No, no, no. Apart from his speed, tenacity and tackling he has some real tricks. He is a much better kick for goal than Papley.
3) During the season I was a bit underwhelmed by MacDonald but his highlights are first class.
Some of his marking and kicking for goal looks every bit as accomplished as any other first choice key forward going around. I say accomplished rather than spectacular. And surely there’s no reason he couldn’t “accomplish” 50 or so goals in a season pretty soon.

[The Runner]

I’ve been re-watching the long highlights from this year (victories only) and after the first five games a few things have really surprised me. Well three things actually
1) Rowbottom is really, really good. I know he drifts out of games and made quite a few mistakes, but the highlights are awesome
2) Wicks is super. A couple of his goals are just magnificent. Some here have been suggesting that he is a vanilla forward pressure type only. No, no, no. Apart from his speed, tenacity and tackling he has some real tricks. He is a much better kick for goal than Papley.
3) During the season I was a bit underwhelmed by MacDonald but his highlights are first class.
Some of his marking and kicking for goal looks every bit as accomplished as any other first choice key forward going around. I say accomplished rather than spectacular. And surely there’s no reason he couldn’t “accomplish” 50 or so goals in a season pretty soon.

I completely agree with these 3 points.

I don't think the suggestion of JPK to the forward line makes any sense at all. Parker has shown he can potentially make that move in his eventual decline - but JPK has never really shown the marking ability to be a target.
And if you aren't a marking target, you need to be applying pressure. And he hasn't the speed for that.

I think he'll still play 15+ games for us, and he still has a valuable leadership role.

[Aprilbr]

I’ve been re-watching the long highlights from this year (victories only) and after the first five games a few things have really surprised me. Well three things actually
1) Rowbottom is really, really good. I know he drifts out of games and made quite a few mistakes, but the highlights are awesome
2) Wicks is super. A couple of his goals are just magnificent. Some here have been suggesting that he is a vanilla forward pressure type only. No, no, no. Apart from his speed, tenacity and tackling he has some real tricks. He is a much better kick for goal than Papley.
3) During the season I was a bit underwhelmed by MacDonald but his highlights are first class.
Some of his marking and kicking for goal looks every bit as accomplished as any other first choice key forward going around. I say accomplished rather than spectacular. And surely there’s no reason he couldn’t “accomplish” 50 or so goals in a season pretty soon.

Some good observations there but a couple of issues to raise. First, be careful to praise Rowbottom on here. It may be dangerous for your reputation. Second, I'm a fan of Wicks too, but his goal-kicking did decline later in the year culminating in a shocker in that area in our final against GWS. Hopefully, he can work on dealing better with nerves when kicking for goal in the future. I would prefer Papps taking the shot to him at this stage.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Ok, I am going to truly shock everyone here. I agree with TB - kind of.

First things first: his constant disparagement of Rowbottom is boring, denies what a stellar 2020 he had, denies he was playing under duress in 2021, and if he disagrees with that, he disagrees with the coaches who had him top 10 last year and said he was playing injured this year but still loved what he offers so much they kept playing him anyway.

But, on JPK, he's right to say, he's best 22, and it's the job of other players to push him out.

I find some of the critique being centred on his defensive work strange. He's never been fast and able to chase down players. But a bloke who can win the ball at the contest is pretty bloody important to a team's ability to defend. And if we're comparing him to others, we're picking some strange targets. Chad? Go watch those two goals he gave up in the final. Ollie? The reason he's barely allowed in the centre square any more is his opponents regularly left him trailing. Campbell? May well be terrific, but hasn't shown it yet.

One of the reasons I am so high on JMac is his willingness to work both ways. That he is slight means the odd tackle gets broken, but he ain't anything other than a two way player. Rowie showed in the final he is elite defensively and almost single-handedly dragged us back into that game in the third quarter.

Then there is game style. It's true we've evolved alot. You've got to get your mix right and we look better when we have a contrasting set of players in there like Heeney, Chad, JMac in glimpses, Papley in patches, Rowie. But you still need blokes that can smash in and win the ball. Mills does it. Parker does it. JPK does it. When others show they can do it when the ball is at its hottest and then use their superior skills offensively, they can have his spot.

I've got no doubt this is likely JPK's last season. I think it's highly likely he steps down as captain. But by christ when it comes to a big moment when we just have to win the ball, I'll still back Joey in any day of the week.