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Thread: BBBH

  1. #61
    Veterans List dejavoodoo44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goswannies View Post
    With respect, I disagree with you on this matter and particularly with your examples in the above post. But, being vaguely familiar with your environment in example 1), I will use this to refute you.

    You may - or may not - be familiar with a podcast and TV series called Dr Death which recounts the events of neurosurgeon Dr. Christopher Duntsch. He was called out by nursing staff and fellow doctors (of varying degrees of experience) for his unsafe practices. If it were not for others making an honest call there would have been significantly more deaths as a result of this “more senior/qualified” individual practicing medicine in his own manner.

    As someone with over 2 decades experience in my field, I wholeheartedly acknowledge that new graduates bring a wealth of fresh knowledge into the work environment. While new graduates benefit from a more senior clinicians experience and knowledge, the senior clinician can also benefit from a new grad’s newly acquired current concept knowledge. If I was told there was a better (or even different) way to practice I would be open to this. Moreover, while we recognise that there is an experience disparity between veteran clinicians and new grads, they are expected to perform within the department as all other workers (with guidance when necessary). In the eyes of patients and other staff they are seen as our colleagues, and a afforded professional courtesy accordingly.

    Barry Hall was a champion player and a champion Swan and from my experience a wonderful person off the field. However, that does not mean he cannot be held to account for his actions. Boris Johnson is experiencing this now among his colleagues. Donald Trump experienced at the hands of the voters (is there a bigger gap in qualification between a voter and a president?). Many tennis players of various rankings are expressing views on Novak.

    But the reality is, for all of his accolades, experience and contribution, Barry Hall was a Swans player. And every other player in the meeting room was a player. My understanding is that this was one of the premises of Leading Teams and the development of the Swans culture. Everyone was accountable. And everyone was expected to hold others to account.

    But your examples are, might I suggest, ridiculous to the extreme. A paralegal lecturing a managing partner? That analogy would be comparable to perhaps a club trainer lecturing Paul Roos. Apples and oranges. The fact is Barry Hall and your “upstart” are both players. Where are you drawing the line? 1 season experience vs 16 2 vs 15? 3 vs 14? So is an 8 year player an upstart relative to the 9 year veteran? Work experience lecturing the CEO? Now you’re comparing the volunteer boot studder to Tom Harley. Apple seed and orange trees. Utter nonsense. Perhaps your examples were meant in relative jest - but they appear somewhat foolish.

    Barry was a premiership captain by virtue of happenstance (the captaincy was alternated weekly and it was his turn … and Stuart Maxfield was actually the captain that season until he resigned mid season and the Club adopted a co-captain model).

    My opinion (and it’s simply an opinion) is that you have this very wrong and that you won’t let go. If I was the sole voice, you could and should dismiss me. However, similar sentiments are being echoed by many of your contemporaries on RWO (& while it would be ludicrous of me to point out that your relative newness to the RWO forum compared to the long standing members is analogous to the “upstart” to Barry Hall scenario, I’m sure the irony isn’t lost).

    BS, perhaps you should heed the sagely advice of author C. JoyBell C. and “Choose your battles wisely.”

    - - - Updated - - -


    In the length of time it took me to compose my response you stole my thunder!
    Exactly. And I'll just add a quick point. One thing that is now drummed into all health and medical students at uni, is that treating people's health is a consultative profession. That is, with the vast amount of new knowledge and new technology, the treatment of a person's health problem, is highly unlikely to fall solely into a single professional's skill set. So therefore, they have to communicate effectively with a wide range of other staff members.

  2. #62
    Out of Bounds on the Full Goal Sneak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goswannies View Post
    In the length of time it took me to compose my response you stole my thunder!
    My apologies goswannies

    FWIW, I thoroughly enjoyed your articulate response

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloods05 View Post
    It's kind of funny how he can't even see that these examples are spurious. If someone in a workplace, any workplace - be it a hospital, a law firm, or a large corporation - is behaving badly and contravening the shared values of the workplace, then any employee, no matter how humble, is perfectly entitled to get stuck into them. In Bangalore's ideal world, workplace bullying and harassment would be rife.
    How dare you accuse me of wanting a workplace of bullying and harassment. I want nothing of the kind.

    I actually think that sitting Barry in a room with 20 other players and having a young inexperienced person criticising him with the air cover of consultants could be considered a form of harassment by some people.

    In your workplace do you get stuck into other workers in front of 20 other people? Do you feel great when a more junior person berates you in front of 20 other people. You must endorse this conduct and think of it as feedback.

    Barry’s on field behaviour in 2008 and 2009 needed to be addressed. This is the responsibility of Paul Roos, the coaching staff, club psychologist and the senior players in the leadership group. Barry should be spoken to about this one on one in a respectful manner. Not a group forum. I’m sure these one on one discussions with the above parties occurred. That’s the respectful way of doing things.

    Why then to we need a young upstart chiming in as well?

    I’ve just done code of conduct training for my own workplace. In none of the modules does it advise you to air your grievances against another worker in front of 20 people. There are protocols to resolve differences and it’s not feedback in front of 20 people.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Goal Sneak View Post
    Here's an example you can add to your list.

    4) A young upstart on a forum, calling the opinions of other posters (who have been around much longer than them) ridiculous.
    Yep. Apologies.

  4. #64
    Goodness me. Six pages of contentious discussion over a young upstart speaking up against BBBBH? The culprit must've been Rowbottom!!

  5. #65
    Out of Bounds on the Full Goal Sneak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bangalore Swans View Post

    Barry’s on field behaviour in 2008 and 2009 needed to be addressed. This is the responsibility of Paul Roos, the coaching staff, club psychologist and the senior players in the leadership group. Barry should be spoken to about this one on one in a respectful manner. Not a group forum. I’m sure these one on one discussions with the above parties occurred. That’s the respectful way of doing things.

    Why then to we need a young upstart chiming in as well?

    I’ve just done code of conduct training for my own workplace. In none of the modules does it advise you to air your grievances against another worker in front of 20 people. There are protocols to resolve differences and it’s not feedback in front of 20 people.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yep. Apologies.
    What you fail to grasp is that it was not just the responsibility of Paul Roos and the staff to address the issue. The culture was well established, whether you agree with it or not. Stop trying to compare the Swans leadership to other industries, it just doesn't equate, nor does it have to.

    Barry thrived in the very same culture. That was, it seems until he didn't like being criticised for his well known issues.

    You were 100% in or you were out. In the end, Barry was out. I suggest due to his failure to take ownership of his actions.
    Last edited by Goal Sneak; 19th January 2022 at 04:37 PM.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloods05 View Post
    It's kind of funny how he can't even see that these examples are spurious. If someone in a workplace, any workplace - be it a hospital, a law firm, or a large corporation - is behaving badly and contravening the shared values of the workplace, then any employee, no matter how humble, is perfectly entitled to get stuck into them. In Bangalore's ideal world, workplace bullying and harassment would be rife.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangalore Swans View Post
    How dare you accuse me of wanting a workplace of bullying and harassment. I want nothing of the kind.
    Actually BS, B05 did not accuse you of any such thing. B05 suggested that in your ideal world, workplace bullying and harassment would be a consequence, not that you particularly wished for it. Subtle, but the 2 things are mutually exclusive.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by dejavoodoo44 View Post
    Yes, although, what I find most amusing, is how a self-proclaimed defender of free speech, has made post after post, essentially attacking free speech. I mean, certainly since Roosy took over as coach, the Swans have been organised in a manner that encourages people to freely communicate. But apparently a young player was egregiously out of line, because in a meeting structure where players are supposed to express their opinions, he expressed an opinion. Go figure.
    Just bizarre.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by 09183305 View Post
    Actually BS, B05 did not accuse you of any such thing. B05 suggested that in your ideal world, workplace bullying and harassment would be a consequence, not that you particularly wished for it. Subtle, but the 2 things are mutually exclusive.
    Precisely. So, BS, you can rest easy. You haven't been accused of anything. Your high dudgeon can wait for a more deserving occasion.

  9. #69
    Travelling Swannie!! mcs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeonBible View Post
    Goodness me. Six pages of contentious discussion over a young upstart speaking up against BBBBH? The culprit must've been Rowbottom!!
    Neon, you've found the magic bullet...
    "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

  10. #70
    Moving on:

    How good is this going to be?

    Sonny Bill Williams v Barry Hall, cross-code boxing fight confirmed

    Barry is going out to be prove that AFL guys are tougher than League and Union guys.

    The Swans need to insure that no game is scheduled for the 23rd March.

    I’m sure most Swans fans want to see Barry take on SBW and don’t want the conflict of a Swans game.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejavoodoo44 View Post
    Exactly. And I'll just add a quick point. One thing that is now drummed into all health and medical students at uni, is that treating people's health is a consultative profession. That is, with the vast amount of new knowledge and new technology, the treatment of a person's health problem, is highly unlikely to fall solely into a single professional's skill set. So therefore, they have to communicate effectively with a wide range of other staff members.
    Yep.....even that medical genius Gregory House had a team.

  12. #72
    Veterans List dejavoodoo44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevoswan View Post
    Yep.....even that medical genius Gregory House had a team.
    Yes, the lone genius is almost entirely a myth.

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