2022 List management, trading, drafting

**royboy42** · 25th May 2022, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Ludwig

I know that there has been a recent focus on our current need for midfield strength and I don’t disagree with this perception. Nonetheless, I believe we should continue with the development of our current midfielders and ignore the temptation to recruit an older top-level midfielder like Martin or Mitchell. Only Parker, at 29, is anywhere close to retirement, and he is signed through age 32, season 2025. Excluding JPK, which has already been factored in, we won’t be losing any midfielders for until at least 2026 if we can manage to keep the ones already on our list.

We can start with the midfield that finished the game on Friday, i.e. Campbell in for JPK, and to that we add Rowbottom, who will come into the side this Friday v. Richmond. That’s a very solid group of midfielders, consider that 6 are still under 24 yo.

To this we can add Sheldrick and Roberts, who both look to be very promising young midfielders who can win plenty of contested ball. Stephens has been improving, and although he might be primarily an outside player, I can see him continuing to grow into a decent AFL midfielder. Marc Sheather has been playing well since drafted, and has particularly looked good the past several weeks in defence. I’ve been impressed with Corey Warner and now feel very strongly that he might be as good a pick as his older brother. They are different players in some respects, in that Corey is very quick, but doesn’t have the power of Chad, but who knows how well he might develop in the coming years. I can see him as a lock down defender or small forward. His kicking has looked much improved in recent weeks. And then there is Angus Anderson, who I believe is a very good chance of being drafted this year. So that’s 6 additional good midfield prospects to add to the ones who are now playing. So no regrets about creating space by trading Hewett, despite knowing that he's been a very good player, and certainly one who I've long admired. The larger picture looks better without Hewett when considering list demographics, team balance and TPP.

However, what we do need are a couple of additional key position players. I hope we take Mutaz El Nour in the mid-season draft, or another KPP. We go into this year’s main draft with 2 probable picks in the teens and another in the 30s. I think we should try to pick up at least another KPP, hopefully a forward in that draft.

McDonald looks to be the mainstay of the post-Franklin era. From there we need to fill in 2 other good key forwards and one depth forward. Things can change, but as of now I can see Amartey as our 2^nd key forward and McLean as a depth forward, which would leave room for another high quality forward, although we would have to be very lucky to pick one up in the draft of the McDonald quality.

That’s my mid-season summary of how I think we stand on list management. It’s always a moving target and we’ll see how things progress this year.

Luddy, I've been meaning to mention this for a while.

In between the occasional Thai inspired meanderings, you throw in some of the most insightful contributions on here.

This one, in particular.

So, thank you.

BTW, how long since you saw the red and whites live?

**Ludwig** · 25th May 2022, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by royboy42

BTW, how long since you saw the red and whites live?

3 years ago. The game v. Essendon in May 2019 at the SCG. It was the last time I left Thailand, with Covid coming the following year. Nico came up from Melbourne to see the game with me. My eyesight isn't that great, so Nico had to do a lot of commentary.

**bloodspirit** · 25th May 2022, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Ludwig

I know that there has been a recent focus on our current need for midfield strength and I don’t disagree with this perception. Nonetheless, I believe we should continue with the development of our current midfielders and ignore the temptation to recruit an older top-level midfielder like Martin or Mitchell. Only Parker, at 29, is anywhere close to retirement, and he is signed through age 32, season 2025. Excluding JPK, which has already been factored in, we won’t be losing any midfielders for until at least 2026 if we can manage to keep the ones already on our list.

We can start with the midfield that finished the game on Friday, i.e. Campbell in for JPK, and to that we add Rowbottom, who will come into the side this Friday v. Richmond. That’s a very solid group of midfielders, consider that 6 are still under 24 yo.

To this we can add Sheldrick and Roberts, who both look to be very promising young midfielders who can win plenty of contested ball. Stephens has been improving, and although he might be primarily an outside player, I can see him continuing to grow into a decent AFL midfielder. Marc Sheather has been playing well since drafted, and has particularly looked good the past several weeks in defence. I’ve been impressed with Corey Warner and now feel very strongly that he might be as good a pick as his older brother. They are different players in some respects, in that Corey is very quick, but doesn’t have the power of Chad, but who knows how well he might develop in the coming years. I can see him as a lock down defender or small forward. His kicking has looked much improved in recent weeks. And then there is Angus Anderson, who I believe is a very good chance of being drafted this year. So that’s 6 additional good midfield prospects to add to the ones who are now playing. So no regrets about creating space by trading Hewett, despite knowing that he's been a very good player, and certainly one who I've long admired. The larger picture looks better without Hewett when considering list demographics, team balance and TPP.

However, what we do need are a couple of additional key position players. I hope we take Mutaz El Nour in the mid-season draft, or another KPP. We go into this year’s main draft with 2 probable picks in the teens and another in the 30s. I think we should try to pick up at least another KPP, hopefully a forward in that draft.

McDonald looks to be the mainstay of the post-Franklin era. From there we need to fill in 2 other good key forwards and one depth forward. Things can change, but as of now I can see Amartey as our 2^nd key forward and McLean as a depth forward, which would leave room for another high quality forward, although we would have to be very lucky to pick one up in the draft of the McDonald quality.

That’s my mid-season summary of how I think we stand on list management. It’s always a moving target and we’ll see how things progress this year.

Good comment. I especially agree with the bolded part.

I see Amartey as a hybrid ruck-forward and I feel as though Buddy and Logan are the only two proper KPFs on our list (with the McCartin brothers being the next closest). McLean is arguably a full forward and, while he can play a role, I would prefer another prospect as our second best KPF (after Logan) once Buddy is gone.

I was the first to suggest we consider Mutaz El-Nour or another KPD for the MSD and so I am in complete agreement there. I also agree we want at least one more KPP in the ND later this year (or possibly by way of trade... there's a certain player I've mentioned 1-15 times). Happily there are a number of KPDs available at the MSD and also a some promising KPP prospects for the ND - at least one of whom should slip to our first pick.

Here's an article from foxsports that discusses various MSD prospects including the KPDs: AFL mid season draft news 2022: Order, date, nominations, phantom mock, Jake Carmichael, Jai Culley, Massimo D’Ambrosio.

**Markwebbos** · 25th May 2022, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ludwig

I know that there has been a recent focus on our current need for midfield strength and I don’t disagree with this perception. Nonetheless, I believe we should continue with the development of our current midfielders and ignore the temptation to recruit an older top-level midfielder like Martin or Mitchell. Only Parker, at 29, is anywhere close to retirement, and he is signed through age 32, season 2025. Excluding JPK, which has already been factored in, we won’t be losing any midfielders for until at least 2026 if we can manage to keep the ones already on our list.

We can start with the midfield that finished the game on Friday, i.e. Campbell in for JPK, and to that we add Rowbottom, who will come into the side this Friday v. Richmond. That’s a very solid group of midfielders, consider that 6 are still under 24 yo.

To this we can add Sheldrick and Roberts, who both look to be very promising young midfielders who can win plenty of contested ball. Stephens has been improving, and although he might be primarily an outside player, I can see him continuing to grow into a decent AFL midfielder. Marc Sheather has been playing well since drafted, and has particularly looked good the past several weeks in defence. I’ve been impressed with Corey Warner and now feel very strongly that he might be as good a pick as his older brother. They are different players in some respects, in that Corey is very quick, but doesn’t have the power of Chad, but who knows how well he might develop in the coming years. I can see him as a lock down defender or small forward. His kicking has looked much improved in recent weeks. And then there is Angus Anderson, who I believe is a very good chance of being drafted this year. So that’s 6 additional good midfield prospects to add to the ones who are now playing. So no regrets about creating space by trading Hewett, despite knowing that he's been a very good player, and certainly one who I've long admired. The larger picture looks better without Hewett when considering list demographics, team balance and TPP.

However, what we do need are a couple of additional key position players. I hope we take Mutaz El Nour in the mid-season draft, or another KPP. We go into this year’s main draft with 2 probable picks in the teens and another in the 30s. I think we should try to pick up at least another KPP, hopefully a forward in that draft.

McDonald looks to be the mainstay of the post-Franklin era. From there we need to fill in 2 other good key forwards and one depth forward. Things can change, but as of now I can see Amartey as our 2^nd key forward and McLean as a depth forward, which would leave room for another high quality forward, although we would have to be very lucky to pick one up in the draft of the McDonald quality.

That’s my mid-season summary of how I think we stand on list management. It’s always a moving target and we’ll see how things progress this year.

I agree about needing more KPPs.

I have two questions about the midfield: are they good enough? and will they reach the level fast enough?

**Ludwig** · 25th May 2022, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Markwebbos

I agree about needing more KPPs.

I have two questions about the midfield: are they good enough? and will they reach the level fast enough?

That's the thing about having so many young players in development. Only the passage of time will tell the story. For one example, George Hewett endured years of criticism on here, but now. in his 9th season, he's considered a star.

All we can do is see how they are performing and progressing from game to game. Even if only 3 of the 6 VFL players mentioned make it to a 200 gamer level, we would be looking at quite a deep midfield. Furthermore, there are 4 more drafts until the end of Parker's contract, so still plenty more opportunities to pick up quality players.

Now that we've committed to rebuilding on the run through the draft, we have to stick with the strategy. If we backtrack and start recruiting mature star players, then it only undercuts the development of the players drafted. If the youth movement flops, then we can look to another strategy. But for now, it seems best to continue on the way we are going.

**Maltopia** · 25th May 2022, 04:50 PM

Limiting to current players…

We talk about needing ruck support for Hickey. But we let Nankers and Cameron go because they were stuck behind other rucks who weren’t that great. Look at how good they became. One a co-captain and premiership player, the other a star.

We are a key defender short and we let Aliir go. He became an All Australian with Port. I won’t count Dawson as we really tried to keep him and we probably came in with a lower offer initially not knowing of strong interstate interest.

We are a midfielder short, and we let Hewitt go partly to keep Stephen, and look how he has excelled. We also let Mitchell go as we had Hanners (who declined), Kennedy and Jack who has long since retired, and Mitchell won a Brownlow and is still a very good player.

We need support for Bud and then McDonald when he is ready. But we let Membrey go who has become a star, because we got Tippett on big dollars (and he was both expensive and injured a lot between some great games here and there).

Of course we also let Hanners, Jones, Newman and Rohan go who haven’t done great after leaving us, so we got those ones right.

Hindsight is easy, but we appear to have a lot of regretful departures where it looks like we chose to keep a player that was not as good as the one that left.

It is great that we picked up Paddy and had some great rookies (Rampe, Papley etc) but I think generally, our top 25 draft picks (Towers, Rohan, Jones, Hayward, Florent, Stephens) have not been great apart from Logan and Campbell and we let some really good players go when we didn’t have to make that choice.

**The Big Cat** · 25th May 2022, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by Maltopia

Limiting to current players…

We talk about needing ruck support for Hickey. But we let Nankers and Cameron go because they were stuck behind other rucks who weren’t that great. Look at how good they became. One a co-captain and premiership player, the other a star.

We are a key defender short and we let Aliir go. He became an All Australian with Port. I won’t count Dawson as we really tried to keep him and we probably came in with a lower offer initially not knowing of strong interstate interest.

We are a midfielder short, and we let Hewitt go partly to keep Stephen, and look how he has excelled. We also let Mitchell go as we had Hanners (who declined), Kennedy and Jack who has long since retired, and Mitchell won a Brownlow and is still a very good player.

We need support for Bud and then McDonald when he is ready. But we let Membrey go who has become a star, because we got Tippett on big dollars (and he was both expensive and injured a lot between some great games here and there).

Of course we also let Hanners, Jones, Newman and Rohan go who haven’t done great after leaving us, so we got those ones right.

Hindsight is easy, but we appear to have a lot of regretful departures where it looks like we chose to keep a player that was not as good as the one that left.

It is great that we picked up Paddy and had some great rookies (Rampe, Papley etc) but I think generally, our top 25 draft picks (Towers, Rohan, Jones, Hayward, Florent, Stephens) have not been great apart from Logan and Campbell and we let some really good players go when we didn’t have to make that choice.

Get real. Membrey is handy, but no star. Cameron is a fringe player at best.

**Industrial Fan** · 25th May 2022, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by The Big Cat

Get real. Membrey is handy, but no star. Cameron is a fringe player at best.

Membrey is to you what Rowbottom is to Thebloods.

No idea why you’ve got it in for him. He would be playing every week in our team.

**Ludwig** · 25th May 2022, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by Maltopia

Hindsight is easy, but we appear to have a lot of regretful departures where it looks like we chose to keep a player that was not as good as the one that left.

The feelings about some key departures were mixed more than regretful. I, for one, was in favour of the Mitchell, Hanners and Hewett departures even though I thought they were very good players. My reasoning was based on salary cap concerns and team balance. I would have preferred to keep Jones and Aliir, but I think we were in a cap squeeze. We can blame that on the loss of COLA.

The TPP makes it difficult to keep all the players we want to keep. It's particularly harsh in the expensive Sydney market. Not every decision made by the club was right, but overall they've done a pretty good job to get us back in contention with a young list after only 2 years out of finals.

**AB Swannie** · 25th May 2022, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Ludwig

The feelings about some key departures were mixed more than regretful. I, for one, was in favour of the Mitchell, Hanners and Hewett departures even though I thought they were very good players. My reasoning was based on salary cap concerns and team balance. I would have preferred to keep Jones and Aliir, but I think we were in a cap squeeze. We can blame that on the loss of COLA.

The TPP makes it difficult to keep all the players we want to keep. It's particularly harsh in the expensive Sydney market. Not every decision made by the club was right, but overall they've done a pretty good job to get us back in contention with a young list after only 2 years out of finals.

Correct. If we were located in Melbourne, we would've been unlikely to have lost any of these players.

Look at Carlton who are lauded at the moment for their recruitment - they've been able to recruit Saad, McGovern, Martin, Williams, Cerra, and Hewett, all reportedly on above average to extreme contracts. In this same time they've re-signed Weitering, McKay, Walsh, Cripps. I've probably missed some GWS recruits too.