2022 List management, trading, drafting

[NeonBible]

If that's true it shows that he was never a true Blood....that his heart was always in Adelaide. We have far better young talent so good riddance to him. I hope he never has success at the Crows.

Everyone believes their young talent is better than the rest. It was long believed that the Gold Coast Suns had the best young talent.. for a decade!! It hasn't brought them close to a premiership! GWS have only come as close as an 89 point belting to a premiership!! Carlton have had endless number 1 draft picks!!

Young talent alone is not enough to win a flag.. therefore alone it is not enough of a reason to base your life somewhere.. there needs to be other reasons.. home.. family.. inner happiness.. if Jordan stayed in Sydney and we never won a flag, what would he have to show for himself behind 10 years of not being as happy as he wanted to be??

[Roadrunner]

Everyone believes their young talent is better than the rest. It was long believed that the Gold Coast Suns had the best young talent.. for a decade!! It hasn't brought them close to a premiership! GWS have only come as close as an 89 point belting to a premiership!! Carlton have had endless number 1 draft picks!!

Young talent alone is not enough to win a flag.. therefore alone it is not enough of a reason to base your life somewhere.. there needs to be other reasons.. home.. family.. inner happiness.. if Jordan stayed in Sydney and we never won a flag, what would he have to show for himself behind 10 years of not being as happy as he wanted to be??

I hear you Neon.

The thing is, Jordan seemed happy with the Swans, but maybe not passionate. I see it a bit like a relationship: you tick certain boxes and if all goes well, you’re happy. But when an issue comes along, you think you may jump ship. This is because you weren’t passionate and deeply committed in the first place! That’s the main reason players change clubs: either for money or the go home factor. Now I’m not judging them- they are entitled to make choices.

But I do believe that except for unusual circumstances, if a player changes clubs there was something missing in the first place. If family was so important to Jordan, he should have allowed the club to deal with both SA clubs to get the best deal for us- he owed the club that, as the club gave him the nurture and coaching to develop him to a level that would make him sought after.

We got screwed by the Crows, because they were able to do us due to Jordan’s choice and that’s why I hope we smash them this year!

[dejavoodoo44]

I'm with you Deja.

The exceptionals see more options, more quickly, decide which is the optimal and while simultaneously finding space deliver the ball exactly where it should go.

Any one of these skills is wonderful, two are fantastic and all three spell CHAMPION of the game.

The ability to see and process options is an interesting topic and one that gives me a bit more appreciation of the task faced by the recruiting staff. In that, they're skills that are probably hard to pick up by testing and data, but are more likely to be noticed through plenty of observation.

On observation: seeing which players have a higher level of mental processing ability, is probably easiest when they're compared to players that have less than average ability to see the game. For instance, there wouldn't be that much difference in the fitness level, athletic prowess and attitude of Gulden, Franklin and Papley, compared to the group of Clarke, Bell and Ronke. But time and time again, the first three would have successfully completed an onfield task, in the time that the other group were still assessing what the task was. So, it's fairly easy to conclude, that there's a difference in processing ability between group A and group B. However, assessing the difference between very good mental processors and elite processors, would be more difficult. And for recruiting staff observing juniors, that could involve going to an awful lot of games and watching even more footage.

And I'm not sure how footy IQ could be tested at draft camp, in a similar way that athletic ability is tested through beep tests, time trials, etc. Maybe you could test reaction time, but that tends to just measure speed of response to a stimulus, rather than a talent for assessing a range of stimuli. Possibly more useful would be something like distracting a participant in the foreground, then quizzing them on what they observed in the background? Although, a confound there, is that might be more of a test of memory rather than observation? That is, on a football field, someone might see a range of options and pick the right option, without actually committing any of those options to memory.

And there'd be problems with data as well. Disposal efficiency stats could be helpful, but they're likely to be affected by a range of influences: how well team mates run into space; how much shepherding they do to protect the ball carrier; how often a player gets possession in heavy traffic, etc. So stats may not be that much use for assessing footy IQ?

One thing that may be handy is networking? That is, since recruiters have limits on how many games they can get to, they do have networks of contacts, who report back to them on likely prospects. And I suspect that a few of those reports, will involve something like, "I don't really know what it is about this kid, but he seems to use the ball really well, so I think you should come down and have a look at him".

So, the recruiter would then come down, to process just how well the prospect processes the game.

[stevoswan]

I hear you Neon.

The thing is, Jordan seemed happy with the Swans, but maybe not passionate. I see it a bit like a relationship: you tick certain boxes and if all goes well, you’re happy. But when an issue comes along, you think you may jump ship. This is because you weren’t passionate and deeply committed in the first place! That’s the main reason players change clubs: either for money or the go home factor. Now I’m not judging them- they are entitled to make choices.

But I do believe that except for unusual circumstances, if a player changes clubs there was something missing in the first place. If family was so important to Jordan, he should have allowed the club to deal with both SA clubs to get the best deal for us- he owed the club that, as the club gave him the nurture and coaching to develop him to a level that would make him sought after.

We got screwed by the Crows, because they were able to do us due to Jordan’s choice and that’s why I hope we smash them this year!

+1.....can I plus more? Great post.

[Auntie.Gerald]

O don't think Port could have gone close to matching the offer for Dawso

It was a one club option

He was homesick

No zillions people homesick after the last two years

Family starting off soon and want to be in the same state majority of time.

Seemed a no brianer for me that Dawso went back to Adelaide and good luck to him.

Developing players like Dawso are worth the risk because if they stay it hasn't cost much in development years.

But developing or trading is not risk free.

We could match the offer despite it sounding like we were competitive with our offer.

[bloodspirit]

The ability to see and process options is an interesting topic and one that gives me a bit more appreciation of the task faced by the recruiting staff. In that, they're skills that are probably hard to pick up by testing and data, but are more likely to be noticed through plenty of observation.

On observation: seeing which players have a higher level of mental processing ability, is probably easiest when they're compared to players that have less than average ability to see the game. For instance, there wouldn't be that much difference in the fitness level, athletic prowess and attitude of Gulden, Franklin and Papley, compared to the group of Clarke, Bell and Ronke. But time and time again, the first three would have successfully completed an onfield task, in the time that the other group were still assessing what the task was. So, it's fairly easy to conclude, that there's a difference in processing ability between group A and group B. However, assessing the difference between very good mental processors and elite processors, would be more difficult. And for recruiting staff observing juniors, that could involve going to an awful lot of games and watching even more footage.

And I'm not sure how footy IQ could be tested at draft camp, in a similar way that athletic ability is tested through beep tests, time trials, etc. Maybe you could test reaction time, but that tends to just measure speed of response to a stimulus, rather than a talent for assessing a range of stimuli. Possibly more useful would be something like distracting a participant in the foreground, then quizzing them on what they observed in the background? Although, a confound there, is that might be more of a test of memory rather than observation? That is, on a football field, someone might see a range of options and pick the right option, without actually committing any of those options to memory.

And there'd be problems with data as well. Disposal efficiency stats could be helpful, but they're likely to be affected by a range of influences: how well team mates run into space; how much shepherding they do to protect the ball carrier; how often a player gets possession in heavy traffic, etc. So stats may not be that much use for assessing footy IQ?

One thing that may be handy is networking? That is, since recruiters have limits on how many games they can get to, they do have networks of contacts, who report back to them on likely prospects. And I suspect that a few of those reports, will involve something like, "I don't really know what it is about this kid, but he seems to use the ball really well, so I think you should come down and have a look at him".

So, the recruiter would then come down, to process just how well the prospect processes the game.

Great, thoughtful post. Thanks deja.

I'm more with NeonBible and Auntie Gerald than stevo in relation to Dawson. I don't think he lacked passion for the Swans, he's just a laconic kind of guy from the country. And these days footy is enough of an industry that he is entitled to look after himself. I think of him regretfully but wish him well - the Crows, not so much.

[stevoswan]

Great, thoughtful post. Thanks deja.

I'm more with NeonBible and Auntie Gerald than stevo in relation to Dawson. I don't think he lacked passion for the Swans, he's just a laconic kind of guy from the country. And these days footy is enough of an industry that he is entitled to look after himself. I think of him regretfully but wish him well - the Crows, not so much.

Which he did....at our expense. We as Swans fans owe him nothing and that includes wishing him the best in football IMO. As I said ages ago, as long as he is happy in his big house and near family, that's as far as my sentiments go. As for footy success......nah.

[Aprilbr]

No love for Dawson from me. Mislead us (Club and supporters) about re-signing and then insisted on going to a Club that was in the position to screw us over which they happily proceeded to do. I hope we smash him (within the rules of course) and the Crows this season.

[bloodspirit]

To be clear, I wish him well in a kind of bland, general way the same I would do most people - not particularly on the footy field. I am more heartfelt in my well wishing for Hewett, Luke Parks, Nic Newman, Aliir and even Gary Rohan. But somehow I still have more goodwill for Dawso than for Mitchell - and I don't think he exactly betrayed us either.

[i'm-uninformed2]

The ability to see and process options is an interesting topic and one that gives me a bit more appreciation of the task faced by the recruiting staff. In that, they're skills that are probably hard to pick up by testing and data, but are more likely to be noticed through plenty of observation.

On observation: seeing which players have a higher level of mental processing ability, is probably easiest when they're compared to players that have less than average ability to see the game. For instance, there wouldn't be that much difference in the fitness level, athletic prowess and attitude of Gulden, Franklin and Papley, compared to the group of Clarke, Bell and Ronke. But time and time again, the first three would have successfully completed an onfield task, in the time that the other group were still assessing what the task was. So, it's fairly easy to conclude, that there's a difference in processing ability between group A and group B. However, assessing the difference between very good mental processors and elite processors, would be more difficult. And for recruiting staff observing juniors, that could involve going to an awful lot of games and watching even more footage.

And I'm not sure how footy IQ could be tested at draft camp, in a similar way that athletic ability is tested through beep tests, time trials, etc. Maybe you could test reaction time, but that tends to just measure speed of response to a stimulus, rather than a talent for assessing a range of stimuli. Possibly more useful would be something like distracting a participant in the foreground, then quizzing them on what they observed in the background? Although, a confound there, is that might be more of a test of memory rather than observation? That is, on a football field, someone might see a range of options and pick the right option, without actually committing any of those options to memory.

And there'd be problems with data as well. Disposal efficiency stats could be helpful, but they're likely to be affected by a range of influences: how well team mates run into space; how much shepherding they do to protect the ball carrier; how often a player gets possession in heavy traffic, etc. So stats may not be that much use for assessing footy IQ?

One thing that may be handy is networking? That is, since recruiters have limits on how many games they can get to, they do have networks of contacts, who report back to them on likely prospects. And I suspect that a few of those reports, will involve something like, "I don't really know what it is about this kid, but he seems to use the ball really well, so I think you should come down and have a look at him".

So, the recruiter would then come down, to process just how well the prospect processes the game.

Great post.

I think one of the challenges for recruiters the past two years is how to assess footy IQ, when because of COVID, there was a lot of junior footy cancelled. I got the feeling from an interview KB did before the draft this year that he regarded it as a bit of a crap shoot accordingly.

It's one of the benefits the Swans had with, say, Gulden. We'd have watched a lot of his footy up close and knew he had a lot of attributes, but probably had a special appreciation for his elite footy IQ. Other clubs will have watched him, but not as much, and probably focused on his size, rather than his brain (there's a joke in there somewhere), and let him slide to pick 32.

[O'Reilly Boy]

There's quite a nice spine of ex-Swans out there:

B: Aliir, Newman

Mids: Nankervis, Mitchell, Jones, Hannebery, Hewitt, Dawson

F: Rohan Darcy Membrey


Have I missed anyone?

[liz]

Great post.

I think one of the challenges for recruiters the past two years is how to assess footy IQ, when because of COVID, there was a lot of junior footy cancelled. I got the feeling from an interview KB did before the draft this year that he regarded it as a bit of a crap shoot accordingly.

It's one of the benefits the Swans had with, say, Gulden. We'd have watched a lot of his footy up close and knew he had a lot of attributes, but probably had a special appreciation for his elite footy IQ. Other clubs will have watched him, but not as much, and probably focused on his size, rather than his brain (there's a joke in there somewhere), and let him slide to pick 32.

Not just his footy IQ but his exquisite kicking skills too. I reckon I'd see him play maybe 10 games or so at underage level (including a couple at NEAFL level) but hadn't seen evidence of footskills that good. But at underage level, where he was the team's best player (or amongst them) and thus expected to rack up loads of possessions and get to contest after contest, and where he couldn't rely on team mates to run to the right places to take best advantage of his kicking skills, I don't think they came to the fore.

The club, on the other hand, would have had a much better idea of what he was capable of.

I'd love to know at what pick the Swans would have matched a bid. He was talked about, pre-draft, as likely to go in the early 20s. I wonder if Beatson and Dalrymple were already sniggering at the idea they might get him for that price, well before he lasted another ten or so picks.