Page 4 of 198 FirstFirst 123456781454104 ... LastLast
Results 37 to 48 of 2366

Thread: 2022 List management, trading, drafting

  1. #37
    Veterans List Ludwig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Chiang Mai
    Posts
    9,310
    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post

    I'd love to know at what pick the Swans would have matched a bid. He was talked about, pre-draft, as likely to go in the early 20s. I wonder if Beatson and Dalrymple were already sniggering at the idea they might get him for that price, well before he lasted another ten or so picks.
    I think we would have matched any bid, even if it came in the top 10 and we had to go into deficit. As you said yourself, we knew the kind of player we were getting with Gulden, and he would be too good to let go.

    I was hoping he would last until the 2nd round. IIRC, I think we had the points covered once we hit the early 20s. A lot of academy players slide beyond fair value once they get out of the top 10. I think a lot of clubs just can't be bothered bidding on players that they don't follow because they know they're going to another club anyway.

  2. #38
    Veterans List dejavoodoo44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    7,329
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludwig View Post
    I think we would have matched any bid, even if it came in the top 10 and we had to go into deficit. As you said yourself, we knew the kind of player we were getting with Gulden, and he would be too good to let go.

    I was hoping he would last until the 2nd round. IIRC, I think we had the points covered once we hit the early 20s. A lot of academy players slide beyond fair value once they get out of the top 10. I think a lot of clubs just can't be bothered bidding on players that they don't follow because they know they're going to another club anyway.
    Before round one last year, I certainly remember telling a few non-Swans friends of mine, that while I thought Campbell was worth pick 5, Gulden was the real gun, and pick 32 was a real steal. I'm sure other Swans felt the same way.

  3. #39
    agree x 3 Liz

    also i do remember it was yourself as one of the early reporters re Wicks and his northern beaches strut and tenacity

    i am absolutely amazed where we are in 2021/22 vs 2020 where i honestly thought we had missed the boat to bring in a little more talent via trades to compliment the legacy years talent we had in Bud, Kennedy, Rampes etc

    2022i am so pumped for

    The changes in in recruitment, coaches, game style and players merging jumping miles ahead has been over whelming pleasing !
    "be tough, only when it gets tough"


  4. #40
    Swans2win graemed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Randwick, Sydney.
    Posts
    397
    Quote Originally Posted by dejavoodoo44 View Post
    The ability to see and process options is an interesting topic and one that gives me a bit more appreciation of the task faced by the recruiting staff. In that, they're skills that are probably hard to pick up by testing and data, but are more likely to be noticed through plenty of observation.

    On observation: seeing which players have a higher level of mental processing ability, is probably easiest when they're compared to players that have less than average ability to see the game. For instance, there wouldn't be that much difference in the fitness level, athletic prowess and attitude of Gulden, Franklin and Papley, compared to the group of Clarke, Bell and Ronke. But time and time again, the first three would have successfully completed an onfield task, in the time that the other group were still assessing what the task was. So, it's fairly easy to conclude, that there's a difference in processing ability between group A and group B. However, assessing the difference between very good mental processors and elite processors, would be more difficult. And for recruiting staff observing juniors, that could involve going to an awful lot of games and watching even more footage.

    And I'm not sure how footy IQ could be tested at draft camp, in a similar way that athletic ability is tested through beep tests, time trials, etc. Maybe you could test reaction time, but that tends to just measure speed of response to a stimulus, rather than a talent for assessing a range of stimuli. Possibly more useful would be something like distracting a participant in the foreground, then quizzing them on what they observed in the background? Although, a confound there, is that might be more of a test of memory rather than observation? That is, on a football field, someone might see a range of options and pick the right option, without actually committing any of those options to memory.

    And there'd be problems with data as well. Disposal efficiency stats could be helpful, but they're likely to be affected by a range of influences: how well team mates run into space; how much shepherding they do to protect the ball carrier; how often a player gets possession in heavy traffic, etc. So stats may not be that much use for assessing footy IQ?

    One thing that may be handy is networking? That is, since recruiters have limits on how many games they can get to, they do have networks of contacts, who report back to them on likely prospects. And I suspect that a few of those reports, will involve something like, "I don't really know what it is about this kid, but he seems to use the ball really well, so I think you should come down and have a look at him".

    So, the recruiter would then come down, to process just how well the prospect processes the game.
    While I certainly agree that both Gulden and Papley have that special quality that gives them time to make the right choices at the right time. Pendlebury has it, (gulp) Greene has it, Dawson has it. It doesn't matter that they may lack real break away pace, they don't need it because their brain seems to operating at an immeasurably faster speed than those around them. Recall the faking of the handball to Franklin v West Coast, the goal off the ground by Papley, how do they have the time to think like that? Unfortunately, I don't think Franklin is in the same category, Franklin exists on talent, speed, anticipation, determination and his size. His skills are pretty sharp too but I have seen him getting caught in possession too often to believe he has outstanding decision making skills. Bell, on the other hand did something wonderful against West Coast that did inspire me to think that there may be something more. The tap over the top to Heeney(?) when he knew he has about to be obliterated was "specccial!!!".

  5. #41
    Veteran Site Admin
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    16,393
    Quote Originally Posted by Auntie.Gerald View Post

    also i do remember it was yourself as one of the early reporters re Wicks and his northern beaches strut and tenacity
    Nah, I'll claim picking out Gulden (not hard) but not Wicks. I was a little surprised when he was given a spot on the rookie list after watching him play a NEAFL season as a top up. He's well outperformed what I thought he was capable of.

  6. #42
    Veterans List
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Crowland :-(
    Posts
    6,096
    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    Nah, I'll claim picking out Gulden (not hard) but not Wicks. I was a little surprised when he was given a spot on the rookie list after watching him play a NEAFL season as a top up. He's well outperformed what I thought he was capable of.
    I remember your post Liz after, if I recall correctly, you saw Errol blitz a game as a 16yo against 18yo's. Think you stuck your neck out and predicted Errol would play R1 2021 for us, or something similar.

    The club would have known how good Errol was pre draft and obviously kept very quiet and mumbled about not having suficient points etc, so clubs would let him slide past first round. That he slid so far was an absolute bonus, particularly given how good he has turned out to be. Let's not forget that his height was a big (LOL) factor in that slide.

    Early days yet but any academy watchers know if there's likely draftable players in this year's crop?

  7. #43
    Veterans List dejavoodoo44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    7,329
    Quote Originally Posted by graemed View Post
    While I certainly agree that both Gulden and Papley have that special quality that gives them time to make the right choices at the right time. Pendlebury has it, (gulp) Greene has it, Dawson has it. It doesn't matter that they may lack real break away pace, they don't need it because their brain seems to operating at an immeasurably faster speed than those around them. Recall the faking of the handball to Franklin v West Coast, the goal off the ground by Papley, how do they have the time to think like that? Unfortunately, I don't think Franklin is in the same category, Franklin exists on talent, speed, anticipation, determination and his size. His skills are pretty sharp too but I have seen him getting caught in possession too often to believe he has outstanding decision making skills. Bell, on the other hand did something wonderful against West Coast that did inspire me to think that there may be something more. The tap over the top to Heeney(?) when he knew he has about to be obliterated was "specccial!!!".
    I can see where you're coming from with Buddy, but I think the times that he gets caught, tend to be close to goal and where a team mate has got the ball in his general direction, despite him being outnumbered. Here he's only real option is to somehow try to fashion a shot at goal, even if that doesn't have a high chance of success. Whereas up the field, he's much more likely to hit a team mate with an excellent pass or to create something out of not much.

    With Bell, he can do some good things when he plays instinctively. However, I don't think he really sees the game well as a whole. This could be a result of him being a late convert who's still unsure about positioning, when to go for the ball and when to hold back. Possibly being used largely in negating roles or running as a decoy doesn't really help? So, if he's hesitancy is more of an experience thing, then I wouldn't mind seeing him spend a few months in the VFL, playing as a midfielder, with more of a see ball, get ball role. Hopefully, that would help his confidence and positional sense.

  8. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by 707 View Post
    I remember your post Liz after, if I recall correctly, you saw Errol blitz a game as a 16yo against 18yo's. Think you stuck your neck out and predicted Errol would play R1 2021 for us, or something similar.

    The club would have known how good Errol was pre draft and obviously kept very quiet and mumbled about not having suficient points etc, so clubs would let him slide past first round. That he slid so far was an absolute bonus, particularly given how good he has turned out to be. Let's not forget that his height was a big (LOL) factor in that slide.

    Early days yet but any academy watchers know if there's likely draftable players in this year's crop?
    Difficult with this years crop as they are largely untested due to two years of covid with therefore no u16 Nationals the previous year or U17 nationals last year, so while they definitely have a few players who have shown promise , it may be this year that we get to see someone step forward. They had a pretty good opinion of a kid called Billie King - he was playing up in u18s in trial games in his 16s year but otherwise there are a few talented players with no absolute single standouts at this time.

  9. #45
    Liz i might have mixed up with Barra?

    oops
    "be tough, only when it gets tough"


  10. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Auntie.Gerald View Post
    Liz i might have mixed up with Barra?

    oops
    I was keen on Wicks getting a rookie spot the first time he qualified for the draft in 2017. I think Liz expressed some concern about his skill development at the time. Clearly the recruitment team agreed as he played an extra year as an over-age player in the academy team prior to getting a rookie spot on his second try in 2018. I'm glad he's making a good fist of his AFL career. He's tough and a good competitor, traits that impressed me from when I first saw him play.

  11. #47
    Veterans List
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Crowland :-(
    Posts
    6,096
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Dawg View Post
    I was keen on Wicks getting a rookie spot the first time he qualified for the draft in 2017. I think Liz expressed some concern about his skill development at the time. Clearly the recruitment team agreed as he played an extra year as an over-age player in the academy team prior to getting a rookie spot on his second try in 2018. I'm glad he's making a good fist of his AFL career. He's tough and a good competitor, traits that impressed me from when I first saw him play.
    Recently watched our 2021 game against Richmond, Wicks was a standout in that game.

    Thanks Magoo for your observations on this years academy crop. Once you mentioned his name, I remembered reading of Billy King 12 months ago, KP/Ruck I believe?

  12. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by 707 View Post
    Recently watched our 2021 game against Richmond, Wicks was a standout in that game.

    Thanks Magoo for your observations on this years academy crop. Once you mentioned his name, I remembered reading of Billy King 12 months ago, KP/Ruck I believe?
    Yes thats his role. Ive seen him mainly play in ruck .

    Of course Hamish Anderson might also be an option as an overager as he is training with the main team/ vfl squad and can still play NAB league etc this year.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO