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Thread: 2022 List management, trading, drafting

  1. #2281
    Veterans List Ludwig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodspirit View Post
    However, a marking forward like Naughton or either King seems like a better complement for Logan. Saints have a good track record of developing our KPFs - maybe Max King could be our guy.
    I don't think we can afford to bring in a $Million player. We are going to have too many players on big contracts or demanding big contracts It gets to the point, like in the Collingwood case, where the club recruits big name players for big money, but then loses them because they can't pay their salaries.

    If Amartey and McLean don't make the grade, and we can't find the forward we want in coming drafts, then the best solution is to move Paddy McCartin or Blakey to forward, Amartey and McLean may not be good enough to play key forward, but might still make it as key defenders.

    I would still bank on Logan to be a top quality #1 KPF.

    After 2022, it's fair to expect big things from the Swans in 2023, but we are nonetheless a team smack in middle of development.

  2. #2282
    Travelling Swannie!! mcs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auntie.Gerald View Post
    85% of all draftees came from Vic, SA and WA combined

    Tas, NT, NSW, QLD make up the remaining 15%

    Do we have enough pathways/ mechanisms we can trigger to encourage players to nsw and keep them here?

    It appears if we didn't have the talent that has filtered down from our self funded Academy we would be seriously below par and struggle to make a squad that could compete
    The difficulty with that conclusion is that we really don't know what our strategy would be if we didn't have the Academy. i.e. we recruit in a way at the moment that takes into account the pipeline of players coming through the Academy. I suspect take that away (i.e. the counter factual without an Academy), and we would probably take a completely different approach to broader recruitment then we currently do.
    "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

  3. #2283
    Our Academy has produced some fine talent but its worth remembering that for many years it produces no player good enough to be drafted that season or, at best, a speculative rookie selection. It is not a conveyer belt of talent as the Victorian Mafia would try to portray it. Its probably averaging one top player every 3 years over its existence to date.

  4. #2284
    After listening to KB in that interview that Ludwig posted (20min chat) it just got me thinking that no matter how creative we are or one step ahead in bending the different pathways to us ..........we would be struggling against the "go home" factor without the Academy

    Even worse our struggle against the "stay home" factor would look even worse.

    "Go home" ie the exodus we see the Suns and GWS deal with more heavily than us each year.

    "Stay home" we rarely can do a Geelong strategy and recruit every other year with very experienced players from neat by Victorian clubs ........we don't really have access to ie Issac Smith just easing across to the Cats and having a significant influence on their success.

    So my concern is that if we go through a lean patch again with the Academy that will have quite an impact on our recruitment and talent pool. Equally if it is overflowing with talent we are in a string position.

    I suppose having Leon over seeing the Academy (an ex afl coach) shows how serious we are in taking this system to the next level.

  5. #2285
    Good post AG. Can't help thinking Eddie's negative/false rants about our Academy from the outset still influences the Vic Media's intrepidation towards it, with some AFL coaches like Clarkson and Chris Scott adding fuel to it when it suits.

    After JHF first year exodus back home, there has been media discussion of introducing 3-4 year contracts for first round draftees. So far no one is dead against the idea from what I've gathered. Can see it helping the Suns & GWS to some extent, but go home players will still be poached after their 4th year. The covid years would've only heightened the go home fever even further.

    Noticed non Vic clubs are increasingly targeting drafting players from their home state, with WC in particular trading down this year to obtain extra picks doing so. Likewise ourselves seemingly targeting best draft talent from regional areas this year who may have less flight risk than their city counterparts.

    Previous couple years we appeared to have strategised drafting core from WA (McDonald & the Warner Bros) as a unit, that could be a coincidence. Nevertheless clubs are increasing strategies to help minimise the go home exodus. We seem to have been doing well of late, with Dawson being the only exception and curbing Papley's anxiety few years ago.

  6. #2286
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludwig View Post
    I don't think we can afford to bring in a $Million player. We are going to have too many players on big contracts or demanding big contracts It gets to the point, like in the Collingwood case, where the club recruits big name players for big money, but then loses them because they can't pay their salaries.

    If Amartey and McLean don't make the grade, and we can't find the forward we want in coming drafts, then the best solution is to move Paddy McCartin or Blakey to forward, Amartey and McLean may not be good enough to play key forward, but might still make it as key defenders.

    I would still bank on Logan to be a top quality #1 KPF.

    After 2022, it's fair to expect big things from the Swans in 2023, but we are nonetheless a team smack in middle of development.

    I am not so sure that we are not going to make a big play for a $1 million player in 2023. Consider the following

    1) We have “stockpiled” some handy draft picks for 2023 given the Hawthorn trade, most would have them bottom 3 at best next year. Add to this we have our own picks.

    2) This will definitely be Lance’s last year, and let’s be frank, he screwed the club with his 2023 contract, allegedly in the $650K range.

    3) This will free up salary cap space, and there will be an additional increase in the salary cap as a result of the new TV rights deal that will come into effect.

    4) The clubs hands have been effectively tied for the last 10 years as a result of the the AFL’s vindictiveness following the recruitment of Buddy. All this changes at the end of 2023.

    We will be in a position to add some “icing to the cake”.

    In my view it is definitely pointing in this direction, and as Geelong have demonstrated, the player’s are out there if you can become a destination club, and given the demographics of the current Swans list I can see no reason why this would not be the case.

  7. #2287
    Quote Originally Posted by KSAS View Post
    Good post AG. Can't help thinking Eddie's negative/false rants about our Academy from the outset still influences the Vic Media's intrepidation towards it, with some AFL coaches like Clarkson and Chris Scott adding fuel to it when it suits.

    After JHF first year exodus back home, there has been media discussion of introducing 3-4 year contracts for first round draftees. So far no one is dead against the idea from what I've gathered. Can see it helping the Suns & GWS to some extent, but go home players will still be poached after their 4th year. The covid years would've only heightened the go home fever even further.

    Noticed non Vic clubs are increasingly targeting drafting players from their home state, with WC in particular trading down this year to obtain extra picks doing so. Likewise ourselves seemingly targeting best draft talent from regional areas this year who may have less flight risk than their city counterparts.

    Previous couple years we appeared to have strategised drafting core from WA (McDonald & the Warner Bros) as a unit, that could be a coincidence. Nevertheless clubs are increasing strategies to help minimise the go home exodus. We seem to have been doing well of late, with Dawson being the only exception and curbing Papley's anxiety few years ago.
    Yes, our ability to keep hold of our talent has been a key to our success in the past 20 years. This period can be contrasted with the final 20 years of the previous century when we would typically lose one or two good or promising players to other clubs at the end of each season.

    This change in fortunes can be attributed to several factors in my view. First, the ramping up of our player welfare system in the 1990s. Second, the introduction of the cost of living allowance in the early 1990s acting as a circuit breaker to stop the annual player exedous. Third, the rise of a successful and respected team and administration leading to ongoing competitiveness and success. Of course, none of this can be taken for granted to give us an edge going forward in such an ultra-competitive landscape. Other clubs will always plot to poach our players, coaches and support talent, as well as to replicate our player welfare and list management strategies.

  8. #2288
    Quote Originally Posted by Auntie.Gerald View Post
    just asking:

    If we didnt have the academy players of Gulden, BJ, Blakey, Mills, Heeney etc would the current mechanisms for attracting players to the Swans have us back outside the top10 ?
    Unknowable but a fair question. You'd have to think we wouldn't be doing as well as we are without the Academy.
    All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated, and well supported in logic and argument than others. -Douglas Adams, author (11 Mar 1952-2001)

  9. #2289
    Quote Originally Posted by BRS328 View Post
    I am not so sure that we are not going to make a big play for a $1 million player in 2023. Consider the following

    1) We have “stockpiled” some handy draft picks for 2023 given the Hawthorn trade, most would have them bottom 3 at best next year. Add to this we have our own picks.

    2) This will definitely be Lance’s last year, and let’s be frank, he screwed the club with his 2023 contract, allegedly in the $650K range.

    3) This will free up salary cap space, and there will be an additional increase in the salary cap as a result of the new TV rights deal that will come into effect.

    4) The clubs hands have been effectively tied for the last 10 years as a result of the the AFL’s vindictiveness following the recruitment of Buddy. All this changes at the end of 2023.

    We will be in a position to add some “icing to the cake”.

    In my view it is definitely pointing in this direction, and as Geelong have demonstrated, the player’s are out there if you can become a destination club, and given the demographics of the current Swans list I can see no reason why this would not be the case.
    I tend to agree. We will lose 50+ goals with buddy. We have plenty of players getting reasonable money but my assumption is the likes of Heeney and Mills would be under what they could get elsewhere. Clubs like Richmond, Geelong etc have paid good money for some of their recruits.

    I like the way Naughton plays. He was being put down back a bit last year and plenty of talk about making that move permanent. He may not be too keen on that. Would be tough to get over him here over the WA clubs but we could do worse.

    Will be interesting to see if they look to give lizard another go. I can’t see them putting Paddy forward but you never know.

  10. #2290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith View Post
    I tend to agree. We will lose 50+ goals with buddy. We have plenty of players getting reasonable money but my assumption is the likes of Heeney and Mills would be under what they could get elsewhere. Clubs like Richmond, Geelong etc have paid good money for some of their recruits.

    I like the way Naughton plays. He was being put down back a bit last year and plenty of talk about making that move permanent. He may not be too keen on that. Would be tough to get over him here over the WA clubs but we could do worse.

    Will be interesting to see if they look to give lizard another go. I can’t see them putting Paddy forward but you never know.
    Can't see the Lizard putting on enough weight to play forward. Leave him be unless he can play midfield?

  11. #2291
    Lizard could becomath the Jezza Cameron Bud style almost half forward roaming 2024ish?

    Can't see him staying as a HBF all his caeer

  12. #2292
    Ego alta, ergo ictus Ruck'n'Roll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith View Post
    Who is our next Locket, Hall, Franklin?
    I understand how important they are when marketing, especially to the theatre goers, but between the three of them how many flags have we won? 1 from 5 ?
    Gotta make you wonder how essential they are in winning flags. Certainly If you listen to the interview, Kinnear raises doubts about the future of key forwards.
    We seem to have won just as many flags with a marque forward as without.
    Maybe we should have thought a bit more deeply about 2012, rather than assuming it was a fluke and spending big? It certainly says the absence of a marque key forward doesn't preclude a flag.
    Last edited by Ruck'n'Roll; 3rd December 2022 at 05:50 AM.

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