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Thread: Rd 5 vs West Coast @ Optus - Pre-Game Thread

  1. #25
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    Watch the replay of us vs WC at Kardinia Park last year. From memory our game plan was to kick it into the forward line where ever McGovern wasn't! Or something like that :-)

    The game plan would definitely ban kicks to a forward contest.

  2. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by 707 View Post
    Watch the replay of us vs WC at Kardinia Park last year. From memory our game plan was to kick it into the forward line where ever McGovern wasn't! Or something like that :-)

    The game plan would definitely ban kicks to a forward contest.
    We had 32 inside 50s for 15 scores in one half of footy when we met at Kardinia last year. Even if they all went to McGovern, we still would've kicked enough to win, just through sheer weight of numbers. Our midfield was rampant that day. And that's where it will be won or lost on Friday night.

  3. #27
    We have certainly struggled to get that breakaway game going this season and to use the corridor. Perhaps the answer lies in bringing in one or two of the midfielders from the Seconds? I think Stephens would be be well suited to the open spaces in Perth. One of Roberts or Sheldrick too? Its a risk but we have to get our movement going. McInerney, Ollie and the Chad are critical there. As is the Lizard off half-back. Our stoppage work has been average to poor also, and that's where the movement starts. A great challenge for our movement guru, Pike.

  4. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Meg View Post
    I’m interested to know why several posters are suggesting Kennedy become the medical sub. That is a role we hope we do not have to use. And if so, neither the team nor Kennedy himself benefits from sitting on the bench.

    When double Brownlow winner Adam Goodes lost form near the end of his career, and the club suggested he be selected in the old sub role (which almost certainly would have involved at least a quarter of play), Goodes himself requested he be dropped back to the Reserves. He wanted to play full match time to allow himself the chance to regain form. And that’s what happened. After several Reserves matches he returned to the senior team and was a strong contributor for the rest of the season.

    I recall Longmire talking of his admiration for Adam’s humility.

    The other obvious example is O’Keefe. He didn’t return to the seniors and ended his career at the end of the season. But in the meantime he provided a wealth of leadership and on-field coaching to the mainly junior players in the Reserves. And later Ryan said that while he wished he had been able to finish his career at the senior level, he realised that the leadership & coaching experience he gained in the Reserves had been invaluable for his post-playing career.

    And in both cases it opened a Seniors spot to younger players.

    Isn’t that a better way to go forward? Unless the coach believes Kennedy is still warming up to be a strong contributor in the Seniors (something we all would love to see). In which case, leave him in the team.
    I see where you’re coming from Meg. It is always difficult to know what to with a Champion player nearing the end. Though Joey may need a few games to get going, I don’t think it is a case of losing form- rather one of losing pace, which in his case he can’t afford. I don’t think moving him to the reserves will help, and he is almost a liability in our team. It hurts to say that as he always gives his all but sadly I’ve come to realise that he is now in our bottom 3.

    So a med sub makes some sense, as if he comes on at a later stage in a game, opposition may be tiring a bit and he can hold his own. I really don’t want to see him in the two’s Meg.

  5. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Aprilbr View Post
    We have certainly struggled to get that breakaway game going this season and to use the corridor. Perhaps the answer lies in bringing in one or two of the midfielders from the Seconds? I think Stephens would be be well suited to the open spaces in Perth. One of Roberts or Sheldrick too? Its a risk but we have to get our movement going. McInerney, Ollie and the Chad are critical there. As is the Lizard off half-back. Our stoppage work has been average to poor also, and that's where the movement starts. A great challenge for our movement guru, Pike.
    I wouldn't mind it if we made those changes April. I also think we need to entertain taking Joey out of the team at some point. I'd give his spot to Gould as he's put together some form in the ressies and is untried at senior level.

  6. #30
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    I think Joey has still made important contributions this year, in particular during the fourth quarter on Saturday.

    He took an important contested mark and also won a contested ground balls and facilitated exits from defence with a release handball.

    That combination - contested marks and the ability to win contested ground balls and get away a release handball through his strength - are still pretty valuable and I think he has a greater impact on winning than alternatives not in the team.

    Those moments can be seen here:
    https://www.afl.com.au/stats/stats-p...D_M20220140403.

  7. #31
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    I think the debate around Kennedy needs to be centred around this:

    We are currently deficient around the contest. When you look at both contested possessions and clearances, our best midfielders rank down the list. Hickey is our best clearance player on volume, closely followed by Mills and Rowbottom - but well down the list. Parker has the most CP, followed by Heeney and Mills - but again, well down the list. And I don't think you'd argue we're that efficient in taking the ball away from either situation.

    2022 AFL League Total Clearances Leaders

    If the coaches think JPK can assist with that, get him in there. If they don't, or they think having him in there compromises other facets of the game we want to play, then sadly, I'm not sure there is a place for him - and the rest of our midfield needs to pull their finger out when it gets tough in the guts. Hell, it basically took JMac - a skinny, fourth-year player - to drive in and will us over the line last week. That's great, but depending on that against the best teams ain't going to cut it.

    The coaches identified pre-season our contested and clearance footy didn't match the best, so they know it's a problem. And without a resolution to it, our ability to run and run is compromised. Footy is still a simple game - and starts with winning the ball when the heat is really on, and then using it efficiently to march forward. And right now, we're not. Our defence is under pressure as a consequence, and you can't spend the whole game flinging the ball out of D50 when the best sides set up so well behind the ball.

    My personal instinct is Joey is such a goddamn champion there is still a role for him rotating through there, but let's find out once and for all. We're currently stuck in no man's land with him. And bar Mills, no one else is playing consistently good inside footy.
    Last edited by i'm-uninformed2; 13th April 2022 at 12:37 PM.
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  8. #32
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    Carlton have a glut of midfielders this season, perhaps we could trade for one of their better extractors from the middle, I think his name is George??

  9. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aprilbr View Post
    We have certainly struggled to get that breakaway game going this season and to use the corridor. Perhaps the answer lies in bringing in one or two of the midfielders from the Seconds? I think Stephens would be be well suited to the open spaces in Perth. One of Roberts or Sheldrick too? Its a risk but we have to get our movement going. McInerney, Ollie and the Chad are critical there. As is the Lizard off half-back. Our stoppage work has been average to poor also, and that's where the movement starts. A great challenge for our movement guru, Pike.
    Agree . We need to get back to the team we had last yr

  10. #34
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    Centre bounces have been a problem for us and it's not clear what the solution is. The way we used to go about it doesn't work anymore. We have good midfielders, but other teams have better setups at the centre bounces. I have a few observations and suggestions:

    1. Ruckmen around the league are giving away the most free kicks this year. Both Hickey and Ladhams give away far too many frees. We need to make a contest at stoppages without infringing. We might be able to swing 2 or 3 more clearances a game if we can just clean up this part of our act.
    2. We need to adjust our CBA mids to the situation. We have to play the percentages based on what personnel the opposition have at the CB. There are some teams that are simply going to dominate us at the bounce, like playing against Max Gawn, Witts, Grundy and a fair few others. More often than not,we should have a defensive setup and plan on losing the hitout or it being a contested situation. A lot of work will have to go into planning for the game ahead and the kind of opposition we will be facing.
    3. We can lose the clearance, but still be okay if the opposition is forced to kick blindly under pressure, which most often leads to a turnover and a good rebound opportunity.
    4. There are 2 primary ways we are getting hurt at CBs. Taps to an opposition player on the move who takes to ball out the front door and is in our defensive 50 in 2 seconds. Actually, Ollie Florent seems to have become our best player in executing this play for us. The other is the opposition winning the ball and handballing back to a loose player behind the contest and moves the ball on to another player coming from either side. This also sets up a clear inside 50 kick. Good sides will have a forward leading into space to take a mark for a good shot on goal. We worked this effectively to JMac in the 4th qtr of the NM game.
    5. We don't have top level CB specialists who we can rely on to win the CB contest, but what we do have is a large number of players who can do a job at the CBs. Maybe this can be our POD. We mix it up a lot.and make it difficult for the opposition to play against us because they don't know who's coming at them.
    6. Speedy players are causing more damage at CBs than the hulks, which is a change from the old days. Florent, JMac and Chad were our most damaging CB players. Gulden and Papley, and perhaps Campbell can also be in our calculations for CBAs. We should have at least one of Mills, Parker and Rowbottom, perhaps 2 if one of them has a hard tagging role. So we should try to have 2 of our quicker players at most CBAs,. We need these quicker players to either get the clearance themselves or pressure the opposition when we lose the hitout. This is the reason why JPK is no longer getting CBAs. He can't defend when the opposition wins the ball.

    We will leave it to the coaching staff to work out specific tactics. But that's my general plan to turn things around in this part of the game.

  11. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludwig View Post
    Centre bounces have been a problem for us and it's not clear what the solution is. The way we used to go about it doesn't work anymore. We have good midfielders, but other teams have better setups at the centre bounces. I have a few observations and suggestions:

    1. Ruckmen around the league are giving away the most free kicks this year. Both Hickey and Ladhams give away far too many frees. We need to make a contest at stoppages without infringing. We might be able to swing 2 or 3 more clearances a game if we can just clean up this part of our act.
    2. We need to adjust our CBA mids to the situation. We have to play the percentages based on what personnel the opposition have at the CB. There are some teams that are simply going to dominate us at the bounce, like playing against Max Gawn, Witts, Grundy and a fair few others. More often than not,we should have a defensive setup and plan on losing the hitout or it being a contested situation. A lot of work will have to go into planning for the game ahead and the kind of opposition we will be facing.
    3. We can lose the clearance, but still be okay if the opposition is forced to kick blindly under pressure, which most often leads to a turnover and a good rebound opportunity.
    4. There are 2 primary ways we are getting hurt at CBs. Taps to an opposition player on the move who takes to ball out the front door and is in our defensive 50 in 2 seconds. Actually, Ollie Florent seems to have become our best player in executing this play for us. The other is the opposition winning the ball and handballing back to a loose player behind the contest and moves the ball on to another player coming from either side. This also sets up a clear inside 50 kick. Good sides will have a forward leading into space to take a mark for a good shot on goal. We worked this effectively to JMac in the 4th qtr of the NM game.
    5. We don't have top level CB specialists who we can rely on to win the CB contest, but what we do have is a large number of players who can do a job at the CBs. Maybe this can be our POD. We mix it up a lot.and make it difficult for the opposition to play against us because they don't know who's coming at them.
    6. Speedy players are causing more damage at CBs than the hulks, which is a change from the old days. Florent, JMac and Chad were our most damaging CB players. Gulden and Papley, and perhaps Campbell can also be in our calculations for CBAs. We should have at least one of Mills, Parker and Rowbottom, perhaps 2 if one of them has a hard tagging role. So we should try to have 2 of our quicker players at most CBAs,. We need these quicker players to either get the clearance themselves or pressure the opposition when we lose the hitout. This is the reason why JPK is no longer getting CBAs. He can't defend when the opposition wins the ball.

    We will leave it to the coaching staff to work out specific tactics. But that's my general plan to turn things around in this part of the game.
    A good thread, and I posted something similar to point 6 - that is, the mix needs to complement each other - before. I'm certainly not advocating for three big , sluggish bulls being in there at once. And this is all certainly true around centre bounces. Your observation on Ollie's sharking skills is spot on, as is the role JMac played in the fourth quarter.

    I think my concern extends however to stoppages and contested ball situations around the ground. If we're going to hold numbers around the ball, we need to be better at the release handball to a player on the move. Or, we need to hold a couple of players back to give the dynamic types a bit of room to move. Heeney for example, is excellent in powering away from stoppages with a bit of space. Right now, we're being stifled at the source, both due to our own deficiency at being first to it, and our lack of movement one play outside the contest.
    'Delicious' is a fun word to say

  12. #36
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    We generally do better with around the ground stoppages. I often see Heeney around those stoppages and he's very good at winning the ball or tackling the opposition. I have to admit that I don't pay enough attention to those stoppage, probably because it happens too fast to notice who's in there, and then it all becomes a bit of chaos.

    Our 4th qtr v. NM probably saw the stats heavily move in our favour. Overall for the game we won the stoppage clearances 30-18, a very healthy margin.

    Iu2, I would love to see JPK make a comeback, but it's hard to see it happening. But I do think he's more than good enough to be the designated Medi sub. His experience and leadership alone makes him a reliable choice. He wouldn't be able to give us the zip that Ronke gave us when Franklin went out, but JPK would be someone we could put in the midfield and would do well when he's coming in fresh and going against a tried opposition.

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