Round 7 prematch thread - vs Brisbane at the SCG, Sunday 4.40 PM

[Roadrunner]

I feel sorry for Bell. He gives his all, as our lads all do, but just hasn’t got it. He makes a few decent contributions but overall his game is frustrating to watch. I don’t expect him to rack up disposals but he and Wicks are our weakest links. Sure, their roles may be based on pressure but I don’t like it and never will. Ollie and Wilbur can drift in and out but they usually are involved in some great moves and have talent- JB and Wicks just don’t seem to show any. They both need extensive time in the twos to develop their game before they are considered again. Much rather introduce our draftees than persevere with these two at the moment.

Maybe a bit harsh and I know Wicks has defenders here but I’m done with these two for a while. RB was pretty ordinary yesterday but he always puts his body on the line- he really needs to improve his kicking though.
The contributions from our bottom 6 can make all the difference as to where we finish and these guys need to improve considerably if we are to challenge.

[liz]

Note: The thread heading is wrong, in that the game start time is 4:40

I've edited the thread title. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Bangalore Swans]

I feel sorry for Bell. He gives his all, as our lads all do, but just hasn’t got it. He makes a few decent contributions but overall his game is frustrating to watch. I don’t expect him to rack up disposals but he and Wicks are our weakest links. Sure, their roles may be based on pressure but I don’t like it and never will. Ollie and Wilbur can drift in and out but they usually are involved in some great moves and have talent- JB and Wicks just don’t seem to show any. They both need extensive time in the twos to develop their game before they are considered again. Much rather introduce our draftees than persevere with these two at the moment.

Maybe a bit harsh and I know Wicks has defenders here but I’m done with these two for a while. RB was pretty ordinary yesterday but he always puts his body on the line- he really needs to improve his kicking though.
The contributions from our bottom 6 can make all the difference as to where we finish and these guys need to improve considerably if we are to challenge.

Agree.

Rowbottoms distribution was poor yesterday and Mitchell got control of him early. He escapes criticism because people on Red and White have been so focused on defending him against TB’s feedback.

His play yesterday vindicated TB’s feedback.

I would prefer Kennedy to play Rowbottoms role for the next two weeks. Kennedy was great yesterday when he came on and deserves to start with RB going to medical sub.

[Ralph Dawg]

From what Horse has said, Paps has recovered from his hammy. I think he comes straight back in. With both him and Ronke buzzing around, along with the dynamism of Heeney and Hayward, I think we can really challenge the Lions back 6. Other then Answerth, their small defenders (Zorko amongst them this year) don't play an overly accountable game. This is where Andrews and Adams are key for the Lions in creating the contest for the likes of Rich, Zorko and Coleman to hurt on the rebound. Nullify their interceptors and we can keep the ball in our F50 for scoring opportunities, more with our mediums and smalls than Buddy and McLean. If Paps is not fit, Wicks in for Bell would be a consideration. No one can doubt Bell's effort but he just looks lost at AFL level.

At the other end, Reid is best equipped to take on the Lions resting ruck, although wouldn't surprise me to see Melican picked for this role. Clearly the match committee rates Melican but personally, I don't see why. TMcCartain to pick up Daniher and Rampe gets McStay. Our medium / small defenders will have their work cut out containing Cameron, McCarthy and Raynor. I think Campbell is our best match for Cameron given his speed and clean hands when the ball is in dispute. If it happens, will be a very entertaining contest.

Obviously the best defence will be to limit the Lions F50 entries by work done up the field. It's a cliche, but this game will be won at the contest and subsequent clearance work, especially at the SCG. I wonder whether Rowbottom will start on Neale or whether Horse will just go straight to Mills or Parker? Given now devastating Neale can be at the contest, I'd just stick Mills on him straight away.
With fantastic matchups across the midfield, this should be an epic contest.

With all that off my chest:
Outs: PMcCartain, McDonald, Bell
Ins: Reid, Papley /Wicks, JPK Sub Gould

[i'm-uninformed2]

Agree.

Rowbottoms distribution was poor yesterday and Mitchell got control of him early. He escapes criticism because people on Red and White have been so focused on defending him against TB’s feedback.

His play yesterday vindicated TB’s feedback.

I would prefer Kennedy to play Rowbottoms role for the next two weeks. Kennedy was great yesterday when he came on and deserves to start with RB going to medical sub.

I think it's about balance.

As the game wore on, his work inside the contest across clearances, contested possessions, tackles and one percenters was excellent.

But like a few others, his work in the first quarter wasn't great, and he and a few others were guilty of bad decision making with kicks forward of centre. That kick - as much as our goal kicking - was killing us. The only three I'd give a pass to yesterday on that count were JMac, Blakey and Gulden.

The JPK thing is an interesting issue in itself. I've been inclined to find out once and for all where he's at. He certainly did well when he was on yesterday and can only do what the opportunity provides, but it's hard to judge in some ways as he was fresh legs against a tiring team in a game where all the play was running our way. That's not to knock him at all; just context for judging what we saw.

[Faunac8]

You know you are fighting a losing battle when a player has these stats:
11 contested possessions ( 3rd equal with Chad for Swans )
7 inside 50’s (3rd )
450 metres gained (4th)
6 tackles (1st equal with Will)
8 clearances ( 1st )
And still it isn’t enough for some who focus on a fifteen minute period where like most of his teammates he didn’t play to an acceptable level.
Sorry BS you don’t drop a player who is working that hard. 😀

[111431]

I feel that Florent is talented but not consistent enough. Needs a kick up the pants to tell him to get his act together. He's a good, reliable player to come on as sub if need be. I can't quite bring myself to demote JPK to the ressies at this stage. Having Reid in the side gives us flexibility to move the magnets around if things aren't working the way we'd like and he's good at defending and applying pressure.

Gould ahead of Melican is a big call but I'd love to give him a chance and debuting him in our home game gives him a great opportunity. Rampe will have to step up in Paddy's absence.

JPK seemed to be the one who helped turn the game around for us yesterday. He may not be quick but he knows how to find the ball and use it well. Need to find a spot for him in the 22

[bloodspirit]

With all that off my chest:
Outs: PMcCartain, McDonald, Bell
Ins: Reid, Papley /Wicks, JPK Sub Gould

Don't give someone their debut as 23rd man.

Plus, I think it is better for a debutant like Gould (young but not a total neophyte) to get a whole game rather than come in to plug a hole when someone is injured. I'd rather have an experienced journeyman (think Fox, Squizzy, COR etc) to do that sort of a job - to be able to give that role to JPK is a real luxury for us. But it's not fair to JPK to do it too many weeks in a row. This week, playing a major rival and contender, I think JPK should get a whole game, and not in the reserves. Deciding who to leave out for him is the hard part. It probably won't be Florent but I do think Olly needs a strong message to work on his consistency.

[Bloods05]

You know you are fighting a losing battle when a player has these stats:
11 contested possessions ( 3rd equal with Chad for Swans )
7 inside 50’s (3rd )
450 metres gained (4th)
6 tackles (1st equal with Will)
8 clearances ( 1st )
And still it isn’t enough for some who focus on a fifteen minute period where like most of his teammates he didn’t play to an acceptable level.
Sorry BS you don’t drop a player who is working that hard. 😀

It's the vibe.

[O'Reilly Boy]

Yep, I was wrong on JPK. Changed the match for us yesterday. I think that he comes back into the starting 22 for McCartin Snr.I do agree with Ludwig that he is at his very best when a bit of the pace has gone off the game and he can just muscle the close stuff—the rest of the mids and HBs have shown that they have the legs to run out games strongly, so a muscle- rather than pace-injection in the sub role is not a bad option. (although it also feels that we are moving towards gaming the medi-sub model, reverting to the discarded sub rule).

I'm also thinking Reid in for McDonald. Papley for Bell.

This is a change in my thinking about the forward set-up. I like a dedicated pressure forward, but think that I'd like to see Papley and Ronke covering the small roles.

The back six balance shifts a bit too—I'm thinking about Kennedy and Reid as rotations, with McInernery also able to swing back if we need it.


Lloyd McCartin Cunningham
Blakey Rampe Campbell

McInerney Mills Florent
Ladhams Parker Warner

Papley Franklin Hayward
Ronke McLean Heeney

Gulden Rowbottom Kennedy Reid

I think that the questions around Rampe, Lloyd and Cunningham are interesting and worth asking, although it is maybe too soon to be ringing the alarm bells. I would like to see Gould get a run, just so that we can see what he is about, but I'm also thinking that this week might not be the right week for a debut. Then again, I gather he plays a similar intercept game to McCartin, so I could live with him coming in instead of Reid. We can cover the Reid rotation through the forward line with Parker and even Kennedy.

[Bangalore Swans]

You know you are fighting a losing battle when a player has these stats:
11 contested possessions ( 3rd equal with Chad for Swans )
7 inside 50’s (3rd )
450 metres gained (4th)
6 tackles (1st equal with Will)
8 clearances ( 1st )
And still it isn’t enough for some who focus on a fifteen minute period where like most of his teammates he didn’t play to an acceptable level.
Sorry BS you don’t drop a player who is working that hard. 😀

I didn’t say drop him. I would swing RB to medical sub. That’s still counted as a game.

He certainly found the football but I don’t think his ball use was good. Look at Callam Mills. Im guessing that over 95% of his possessions were effective. To get fully behind RB I needed him to go back and slot that 40m goal in the last quarter. Why not do what Chad did? Two 2nd half goals that were important. RB kicked that shot out on the full.

The battle is Rowbotton v Kennedy. Chad, Mills, Parker, Florent, J-Mac and Heeney are not being dropped.

Who do you want in the one position Red and White?

Kennedy or Rowbottom?

[bloodspirit]

Yep, I was wrong on JPK. Changed the match for us yesterday. I think that he comes back into the starting 22 for McCartin Snr.I do agree with Ludwig that he is at his very best when a bit of the pace has gone off the game and he can just muscle the close stuff—the rest of the mids and HBs have shown that they have the legs to run out games strongly, so a muscle- rather than pace-injection in the sub role is not a bad option. (although it also feels that we are moving towards gaming the medi-sub model, reverting to the discarded sub rule).

I'm also thinking Reid in for McDonald. Papley for Bell.

This is a change in my thinking about the forward set-up. I like a dedicated pressure forward, but think that I'd like to see Papley and Ronke covering the small roles.

The back six balance shifts a bit too—I'm thinking about Kennedy and Reid as rotations, with McInernery also able to swing back if we need it.


Lloyd McCartin Cunningham
Blakey Rampe Campbell

McInerney Mills Florent
Ladhams Parker Warner

Papley Franklin Hayward
Ronke McLean Heeney

Gulden Rowbottom Kennedy Reid

I think that the questions around Rampe, Lloyd and Cunningham are interesting and worth asking, although it is maybe too soon to be ringing the alarm bells. I would like to see Gould get a run, just so that we can see what he is about, but I'm also thinking that this week might not be the right week for a debut. Then again, I gather he plays a similar intercept game to McCartin, so I could live with him coming in instead of Reid. We can cover the Reid rotation through the forward line with Parker and even Kennedy.

Good line-up and makes sense but I'm not sure about JPK as a defender and if we put him somewhere else that really shakes up our defensive balance as a team.

I need to watch a replay of yesterday's match to get a better sense of how we covered McCartin's departure and where JPK spent his time while he was on the field - was he exclusively on-ball or did he go back or forward too? Did anyone else pay attention to this?