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Thread: Round 10 v Carlton @ Marvel Stadium

  1. #433
    Swans2win graemed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcs View Post
    Ruck pair was disappointing tonight - Hickey not near his best and Ladham really isn't offering much when he goes up forward either. Should really have monstered it more out of the centre then they did. We need patience with them as a pairing, but need more from them (especially Ladhams) around the ground. He didn't have a good night at all up forward - we didn't kick to much advantage, but he looks very easy to defend against too.
    Personally I believe we must have a backup ruck and I have always favored Reid over any of the alternatives. He is quicker than MacLean, cleaner in the air than Armarty, more in everything than Ladhams.

  2. #434
    Out of Bounds on the Full Goal Sneak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graemed View Post
    Personally I believe we must have a backup ruck and I have always favored Reid over any of the alternatives. He is quicker than MacLean, cleaner in the air than Armarty, more in everything than Ladhams.
    Amartey is closing the gap between he and Reid. Joel is getting better and should be given a chance ahead of Sam, who is in the squad for depth. Reid shouldn't be keeping younger kids who are making their case in the reserves from getting a game. If Ladhams is to be dropped, I'd like to see Amartey ahead of Reid.

  3. #435
    Reefer Madness
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    "If" there is going to be a change, I'd prefer Amarty over Reid for the reasons listed above - we need to invest in our future.

    I guess I'm just confused as to why the attention seems to have fallen on Ladhams after the other night. He was very poor after a reasonable stretch, but Hickey was just as wretched. Fumbly, gave away frees, inconsequential in the ruck or in the air. Easily his worst game for us.

    Don't get me wrong - I'm not arguing for him to be punted either. Just trying to make sense of the singular focus on Ladhams.
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  4. #436
    Quote Originally Posted by Roadrunner View Post
    Bloodspirit, are you happy with the job Bell and Wicks gave us against Carlton? You mentioned stats are not all there is- totally agree. But if their role is to apply pressure so that their team mates can get the ball and hit the scoreboard, then these guys just don’t do it with any regularity. Hence, there’s no room for them in the team, as they don’t play to an acceptable AFL level.You can defend them, as a few on here have done, but not only did we lose the game, these 2 were well beaten the whole night. Sorry but they need to go if we are to improve.
    Quote Originally Posted by KTigers View Post
    Yep, that's the thing. It's all very well saying drop Bell and Wicks but who comes in for them that will do a better job at what they are
    being asked to do.
    To answer your question, Roadrunner, I'm not happy with the job Bell and Wicks did against Carlton. But nor am I pinning the result on them - there were a number of players who let us down on the night.

    Neither do I have as low an opinion of Bell as some here. I think Wicks has been more consistent but Bell's best is better. I see Bell covering a lot of ground and getting to a lot of contests and putting pressure on the opposition's ball movement quite effectively even when he's not touching the ball - but I wish he did that part better and then, especially, he was more effective when he had the ball in hand.

    My point is more that I don't think we have a clear understanding of their forward pressure role (although there have been some impressive and educated suggestions by some posters) and I interpret the fact that the coaches keep selecting Wicks and Bell despite being aware of their performances and the alternatives available means they Bell and Wicks do more than we notice or else they wouldn't keep getting picked. The alternative is that the match committee doesn't know what it's doing but I just don't think that Horse, Pyke, Cox, Macca, Matthews, Gardiner and Harley are completely hopeless and know less than us or even that they're consistently getting this wrong.

    Personally, I'd be delighted if one or both of Bell and Wicks were replaced by Roberts and Sheldrick and we move to the future - but I trust the MC to get this right more often than not and that they know much better than me or any other poster here. If Sheldrick were fit I think he could have played this role as well as Bell/Wicks and accelerated his development. I'd love to see the MC back Roberts in to do it too - although I think in his first year Roberts lacks some of the ferocity to play that pressure role even though he has good stamina, can tackle, uses the ball pretty well and can kick a goal as well as either of them. But really Roberts is a midfielder and I wouldn't want to see him playing as a pressure forward for too long, whereas I'm less sold on Bell as a midfielder at AFL level - I just haven't seen him use the ball damagingly enough.
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  5. #437
    Ego alta, ergo ictus Ruck'n'Roll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i'm-uninformed2 View Post
    I guess I'm just confused as to why the attention seems to have fallen on Ladhams after the other night. He was very poor after a reasonable stretch, but Hickey was just as wretched. Fumbly, gave away frees, inconsequential in the ruck or in the air. Easily his worst game for us.
    Neither have had great seasons thus far. Maybe it's based on Tom's excellent 2021, or maybe Peter has been pigeonholed as Tom's successor in peoples minds.
    Last edited by Ruck'n'Roll; 23rd May 2022 at 06:11 PM.
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  6. #438
    Out of Bounds on the Full Goal Sneak's Avatar
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    I think expectations were high with Hickey and Ladhams being picked together but they didn't combine as well as we'd hoped. It was one game and they should probably be given some time together before we chop and change, however, the pressure is on Ladhams with Amartey playing well for the reserves.

  7. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by Goal Sneak View Post
    I think expectations were high with Hickey and Ladhams being picked together but they didn't combine as well as we'd hoped. It was one game and they should probably be given some time together before we chop and change, however, the pressure is on Ladhams with Amartey playing well for the reserves.
    I was at the Swans reserves game on the weekend and Armetey was very impressive. He took a lot of marks, kicked goals and was also handy in the Ruck. If we don't start playing him soon then he will be playing good footy for another team. He is very agile too. I would bring him in this week and drop Ladhams.

  8. #440
    Perhaps I lean too far with the optimism and positivity sometimes but I don't think that we should throw the baby out with the bathwater over this game. I haven't watched a replay but I was at the game and we were clearly the better team for all of the second half. We just couldn't capitalise enough on our dominance yet still scored 45 to 22. Turning a game around when it is not on your terms is not an easy thing to do. We lost to a bloody good team by 15 points on their home deck with a free kick count heavily in their favour.

    It's just that we can't afford so many periods that we've had this year where the other team goes on such a run. Is it youth? Probably. Should it be surprising with these numbers:

    Name (Age) Games played:
    Gulden (19) 28
    McDonald (20) 14
    Campbell (20) 17
    Warner (21) 24
    McInerney (21) 39

    Even Ladhams is only 24 and has played only 39 senior games. Paddy Mac seems like a reliable, senior player but he is light on experience and will be significantly better in a year or two.

    This year is not likely our year. It is a bit sad because I really wanted JPK and Buddy to be a part of the next premiership but I think it is more likely 2024/2025 when our younger mids are really more imposing.

  9. #441
    Bloodspirit, agreed that our coaches and MC are in the best position to assess each and every player and make their decisions accordingly.
    All is well if we are winning. The issue is when we lose: do you keep your worst performing player/s or do you give someone else a go?

    Let’s take our last 2 games. We beat the Bombers and Wicks had a good game. The changes were kept to a minimum. Then came Carlton and we lost. Fair to say that with the exception of Logan, the whole team sucked in the first half, but redeemed themselves in the second and came very close. Now Wicks had a shocker and lost nearly all 1 on 1’s. So does he warrant a spot against the Tigers? Same with Bell. If it’s the odd game and they mostly contribute to a win, then keep them in. But this was clearly not the case and they were our passengers.

    Honestly don’t know what the selectors see that I don’t, but if we lose a game and either or both are poor, then they should be dropped. Fact is that these 2 are our fringe players and it’s logical that they are the ones that have to make way if we are going to give a go to others who deserve it after showing consistency in the ressies. Some may call them our whipping boys but they are just not consistent enough and their upside is questionable.

  10. #442
    Senior Player Matty10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by giant View Post
    Richmond won 3 out of the last 5 flags with several players that were hardly household names and frankly I don't think are any better than the players you've named.
    Agreed. It is like that at just about every club, really. When everyone in the team plays their assigned role the supposed deficiencies disappear.

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