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Thread: 2023 List Management

  1. #2545
    Warming the Bench
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    You are right that there was more to this than just Dawson, and the overall focus rightly was on player retention given the emergence of the players you have mentioned. I also concede Hewett had back issues that were concerning some in terms of a long term contract, but Dawson was part of the retention plan, and salary cap was an issue, and the only way to address this was to trade a player such as Hewett to achieve the overall goal which included Dawson

  2. #2546
    Quote Originally Posted by Auntie.Gerald View Post
    2023 - 33 goals at the Pies in one season
    2019 to 2022 - 34 goals over 4 seasons

    McRae said in his post match today he had been texting Bobby even the season before they got him across.

    What did McRae see when Bobby was only achieving 7, 4, 14, 9 goals in his previous 4 seasons?

    If we recruited a small forward that had only produced the above 34 goals over 4 seasons I suspect that many of our supporters would have said KB has gone nuts ?

    I think list management played a significant part in identifying what the Pies wanted and they got 33 goals this season from a player not looking anything like that total the previous 4 seasons.

    Luck and umpiring didn’t seem to make an impact across his 24 games this season. Effort, skill and anticipation jumped way ahead of luck and umpiring Luddy.

    So the point being that 4th and 5th year players are very tricky to measure for us supporters.

    McRae and Wright seemed to assess miles ahead of us punters with Bobby.

    Maybe……just maybe……so to with one or two “depth” players coming to the swans for 2024…… that some of us think are only depth and a waste to the squad but list management see diamonds in the sand?
    I’d say that would be the goal of every player that’s traded in ? Like the game battleships you have way more misses that hits lol

    I would say that they really nailed the role players they brought in Hill and Markov are two stand outs, can we find a couple surely would be nice 👍 I am keen on Dow (not because he’s my nephew) but I really do think his stoppage game in the second half of the year was part of what the Blues going and I can see him working with Sheldrick.

  3. #2547
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRS328 View Post
    The only reason we traded Hewett was because “dog” Dawson had committed via text to key Swan management they had nothing to worry about, and they accepted this in good faith. Salary cap was tight, and in order to fit Dawson in they had to find a way, and George Hewett was placed on the trade market to make room for Dawson. Hewett was happy in Sydney and did not want to leave the club.
    If Dawson had been honest with the club Hewett would still be in Sydney
    I didn’t know this re Dawson. This makes me even angrier about him leaving Sydney to go to Adelaide. What a #!*%¥!

  4. #2548
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    In fairness to Bobby Hill he had made it clear for the prior two years that for family reasons he wanted to return to Melbourne and sadly when a player is not interested in the club it shows. Collingwood were smart enough to recognise this and planned their move which coincided with moving players on to create cap space.
    On the flip side I don’t think we have much to grumble about with our recruiting team given our finals record which means very few early draft picks. Look at Papley, Warner, Lloyd, Rampe, Cunningham, McInerny, McLean, Reid, Parker, Armartey, Fox etc. All were either rookie or late draft picks.
    Hopefully we are going in a similar direction to Collingwood this year with adding depth players as you have suggested, and the early signs are there that this is the case

  5. #2549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auntie.Gerald View Post
    2023 - 33 goals at the Pies in one season
    2019 to 2022 - 34 goals over 4 seasons

    McRae said in his post match today he had been texting Bobby even the season before they got him across.

    What did McRae see when Bobby was only achieving 7, 4, 14, 9 goals in his previous 4 seasons?

    If we recruited a small forward that had only produced the above 34 goals over 4 seasons I suspect that many of our supporters would have said KB has gone nuts ?

    I think list management played a significant part in identifying what the Pies wanted and they got 33 goals this season from a player not looking anything like that total the previous 4 seasons.

    Luck and umpiring didn’t seem to make an impact across his 24 games this season. Effort, skill and anticipation jumped way ahead of luck and umpiring Luddy.

    So the point being that 4th and 5th year players are very tricky to measure for us supporters.

    McRae and Wright seemed to assess miles ahead of us punters with Bobby.

    Maybe……just maybe……so to with one or two “depth” players coming to the swans for 2024…… that some of us think are only depth and a waste to the squad but list management see diamonds in the sand?
    Bobby Hill went from 34-30 goalkicking accuracy at GWS to 33-14 at the Pies. I don't think that result can be projected based on his time at GWS. But, of course, things like that do happen. I would say Collingwood were lucky. Or perhaps, they projected Hill would play better in a happier environment. It didn't work with a lot of others, like SPS going from Carlton to WCE, for example.

    I think Jordon will be a good addition to the Swans. He's more than a depth player. Any midfielder who can get selected 65 times in the best 23 for a team with such a powerful midfield as Melbourne's must be pretty good. I remember having a stats battle with TheBloods comparing Jordon to Rowbottom, and thinking they were very even. Maybe the difference in the past couple of seasons is that Rowbotom has had a regular spot in our midfield, while even Brayshaw has had problems at times keeping an on-ball spot and was played at HB a lot. With Mills to miss a fair chunk of the 2024 campaign, Jordon should get plenty of opportunity to prove his worth.

  6. #2550
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    On Bobby Hill, it’s also worth remembering he lost the vast majority of a year with testicular cancer.

    Re Paddy Dow, I have to admit to not having seen a lot of him. I did however ask a mate of mine who’s a Carlton fan (I know) for some intel.

    He said he’s a first rate clearance and centre square player, with clean hands and the ability to get out the front of the stoppage with speed. He also reckons his kicking is better than he’s given credit for, but more dependable and within his limits than elite.

    Apparently the knock on him is his contribution on turnover or transition play. He seems to miss the cues on where to run at times to either contribute offensively in chains of play or see the role he has to play defensively. He doesn’t think it a fitness or endeavour thing, more a know how. Now he did say it’s possible because he’s been thrown all over the field and jerked in and out of the side, the lack of continuity or confidence has hurt him.

    He likes him and apparently he’s well regarded within the club, but is just a player that hasn’t quite nailed it. He actually compared him to Dylan Stephens in this way - there’s a version who can play but would benefit from a change of club, or there is a version who has skills but can’t quite play consistent, all round AFL footy. And we just don’t know yet.
    'Delicious' is a fun word to say

  7. #2551
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    Perhaps a straight would be good for both!!!

  8. #2552
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    Correction. Perhaps a straight swap would be good for both

  9. #2553
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    FWIW. Facebook rumour (or knowledge) that Dow toured the Swans facility today.

  10. #2554
    Quote Originally Posted by BRS328 View Post
    Correction. Perhaps a straight swap would be good for both
    Great result if so.

  11. #2555
    If we have talent but our depth is still skinny for being a top4 team while carrying injuries…….especially after loosing significant players in 2024 ie Buddy, Hickey, PMac and possibly the likes of Stephen’s, Reid and Gould?

    If we are loosing 800 plus AFL games of experience in one season and a double bump is that they are dropping out of our very inexperienced squad vs the competition.

    Then for the 2024 season we need at least 3 new players with experience that can have an impact in our best 28 if not our best 22.

    This is despite the emergence of a few young guys in our squad that have started to show their potential. I mean the top8 teams have these guys waiting in the wings also - which sort of makes it a zero sum game ie zero net change for all come round 1.

    Our young guys will have their ups and downs (naturally) that can impact games either way. That is just how it is in AFL and we can not expect Amartey to kick 2 or 3 goals a game on average……If he does that is a bonus but would not be counted by KB as a certainty at his stage of experience at AFL.

    My sense is that if a “Dow and Jordon” joined they have upside but also enough experience to shift into the team when required and play a role quite easily.

    60 games experience each / 22/23yrs of age but also from pretty good teams where they had to scrap and prove a baseline of consistency to get picked vs very good opponents in their squad.

    These type of players that are not expensive and allow our team to function effectively allow us to meet short term replacement needs, depth as injuries strike, potential runway of going to a new level plus they don’t mind fighting for the ball…..which we need in spades to be a top4 team.

    I have no doubt our contested coaching emphasis will tweak again this pre season…… but u also need to depth and right athletes to execute.

  12. #2556
    Quote Originally Posted by Auntie.Gerald View Post
    If we have talent but our depth is still skinny for being a top4 team while carrying injuries…….especially after loosing significant players in 2024 ie Buddy, Hickey, PMac and possibly the likes of Stephen’s, Reid and Gould?

    If we are loosing 800 plus AFL games of experience in one season and a double bump is that they are dropping out of our very inexperienced squad vs the competition.

    Then for the 2024 season we need at least 3 new players with experience that can have an impact in our best 28 if not our best 22.

    This is despite the emergence of a few young guys in our squad that have started to show their potential. I mean the top8 teams have these guys waiting in the wings also - which sort of makes it a zero sum game ie zero net change for all come round 1.

    Our young guys will have their ups and downs (naturally) that can impact games either way. That is just how it is in AFL and we can not expect Amartey to kick 2 or 3 goals a game on average……If he does that is a bonus but would not be counted by KB as a certainty at his stage of experience at AFL.

    My sense is that if a “Dow and Jordon” joined they have upside but also enough experience to shift into the team when required and play a role quite easily.

    60 games experience each / 22/23yrs of age but also from pretty good teams where they had to scrap and prove a baseline of consistency to get picked vs very good opponents in their squad.

    These type of players that are not expensive and allow our team to function effectively allow us to meet short term replacement needs, depth as injuries strike, potential runway of going to a new level plus they don’t mind fighting for the ball…..which we need in spades to be a top4 team.

    I have no doubt our contested coaching emphasis will tweak again this pre season…… but u also need to depth and right athletes to execute.
    Agreed Auntie. Dow and Jordon would be decent upgrades on say Clarke and Wicks.

    It was obvious in the GF that the Pies had a multi pronged attack and though Hill turned out to be the match winner on the day, they got good service from all their forwards. More scoring shots means a better attack. This means you end up winning most games, as they have done this year unfortunately!

    If we get the above 2 plus Grundy, our main weakness will be the need for a key defender. If we can’t trade one in then we have to find him in the draft and not go for “best available” as in the past.

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