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Thread: 2023 List Management

  1. #3781
    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    Blakey wasn’t father-son (to us). And technically neither was Kirk since, as a father-son recruit, he wouldn’t have been eligible for the Cat B rookie list.

    The actual father-son recruits we have taken since I've been following the club are Mitchell who you mention, Heath James and Stephen Doyle, both of whom were very promising but whose careers were ruined by injury, and Sean Dempster, who played in the 2005 and 2006 grand final teams but, for some reason, wasn't rated by Roos and was given away for nothing to St Kilda when we traded Adam Schneider to them. He went on to have a fine career with the Saints, including an All-Australian selection and another grand final campaign in 2010.
    I liked Sean Dempster but from memory his form was a bit up and down and maybe Roos expected more consistency from him. However, he shouldn’t have been given away as obviously just needed a bit more time to mature as he showed playing with the Saints. Just shows everyone makes mistakes!

  2. #3782
    We also let Josh Dunkley (son of Andrew) slip through under murky circumstances. He made last minute F/S nomination only for us not to match Bulldogs bid. Rumours abound with that!

    Then you had of course Joe Daniher (son of Anthony) selecting Essendon as F/S instead of us.

    Both decisions were made because of stay home (Victoria).factors.

    Even as South Melbourne, we had very few F/S & can't recall any having successful in my lifetime (60+ years).

  3. #3783
    Outer wing, Lake Oval Sandridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSAS View Post
    We also let Josh Dunkley (son of Andrew) slip through under murky circumstances. He made last minute F/S nomination only for us not to match Bulldogs bid. Rumours abound with that!

    Then you had of course Joe Daniher (son of Anthony) selecting Essendon as F/S instead of us.

    Both decisions were made because of stay home (Victoria).factors.

    Even as South Melbourne, we had very few F/S & can't recall any having successful in my lifetime (60+ years).
    Graeme John's son, Gareth, played for us but injuries wrecked a promising career and almost cost him his life. He had his larynx crushed in a game against Essendon when Simon Madden kneed him in the throat in a ruck duel. The incident was accidental and legal at the time but was a result of a style of ruck play that would bring howls of protest now.

    Gareth John - Wikipedia

  4. #3784
    Quote Originally Posted by KSAS View Post
    We also let Josh Dunkley (son of Andrew) slip through under murky circumstances. He made last minute F/S nomination only for us not to match Bulldogs bid. Rumours abound with that!

    Then you had of course Joe Daniher (son of Anthony) selecting Essendon as F/S instead of us.

    Both decisions were made because of stay home (Victoria).factors.

    Even as South Melbourne, we had very few F/S & can't recall any having successful in my lifetime (60+ years).
    Herbie Matthews, Bob Pratt Jr.

  5. #3785
    Veterans List wolftone57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i'm-uninformed2 View Post
    I like most of Whateley's contributions and observations, but he has a blind spot on the academies (as opposed to Sydney) - and whilst I don't think Geelong have done a bad job starting to restock their list over the past two-three years; yes, they are a bit off it for now. But christ almighty, their 2007-11 dynasty was built off the back of cheap as chips father-sons, before they cracked down on it. And that's before all the father-son rorting.

    Or the salary cap rorting. A mate of mine who lives down there and is a Cats fans gives me all the gossip. He laughs at what they get away with. The new one he told me a little while back is apparently six different wives of players just happen to be paid to be ambassadors for Cotton On, one of the club's bigger sponsors. All on between $10-20K.
    I have been talking of the Cats rorting the Cap for years. Giving wives & family businesses, paying them as ambassadors, education expenses for wife & kids all paid, promotion contracts with non sponsors who are linked by directors of the club. Cats get away with murder.

  6. #3786
    Veterans List wolftone57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    How do you distinguish "our own pocket" from that part of the revenue that comes from the AFL (which, equalisation elements aside, is largely the club's share of the media deal)? It all goes into one pot, alongside money from memberships, merchandise, sponsorships and any other side pursuits that a club might have (such as pokie revenue for most of the Victorian clubs).

    We do have sponsorship specific to the academy - that is, QBE is the main sponsor of the academy in addition to being the primary sponsor of the club. I imagine they pay extra money over and above what they were paying in sponsorship before the academy launched, though I guess there's an argument that they have a finite amount of money they are willing/able to contribute to the club as a whole.

    I believe the AFL also makes a financial contribution to the academy (and all other academies) over and above the normal distribution we get from them. I don't know how big this is relative to the amount we find from other sources.

    Tom Harley, when defending our Academy from a devious and dastardly attack from Chris Scott said the club provided over $1millionm for our academy. Those funds would have included some Development Fund money from the AFL (every club gets Development Fund money the Vic clubs about double ours). But the Development Fund money also pays for Clinics & Junior Club development. The upshot is the club pays, not the AFL. Even though we get money from the AFL, it is never enough to pay for everything and sponsorship & other funding pathways are always handy.

  7. #3787
    Veterans List wolftone57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRS328 View Post
    Buller and Arnold
    What about them?

    Buller is from WA

    Arnold is a Brisbane Academy boy nobody drafted, so we did

  8. #3788
    Veterans List wolftone57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nico View Post
    The northern clubs are getting smarter. I would be surprised if we see the mass poaching of players that we have seen from GWS and the Suns. Some of these Melbourne clubs will have to start developing their own, so targeting the northern clubs players when they are in the premiership window may very well be a thing of the past.

    Geelong's pillage last year came to nought. Richmond is on the slide even though they picked up two handy players from GWS. North couldn't attract northern mature players.
    Two handy mids one of whom is a far better forward. But neither like to run both ways. Their defensive games are crap. That is why GWS were not too fussed.

  9. #3789
    Veterans List wolftone57's Avatar
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    Dear Whately,

    The VFL Boy's Club, calling themselves the AFL, did run the Northern Academies for a short time and made such a mess of it that nobody got developed. It was just a huge black hole to suck up money. Since the Sydney Swans & Brisbane Lions took over those Academies they have thrived. Why? Because kids identify with the clubs. Not only did the clubs take over running the Academies, they took over funding them too. The Swans & Lions developed most of the kids in the Northern states without much AFL help, a small allocation from the Development Fund. The Victorian clubs receive over 70% of the AFL Development club money even though they are only 55% of the clubs. The Next Gen Academies are all fully funded by the AFL. The schools all get huge input from the Development fund as did Junior Programs in the suburbs. But recently, since Gillon, the Development Fund has allocated it resources in a more targeted manner. In other words the Private Schools use Scholarships, all paid for by AFL Development Fund money to attract better players from the public system. The Public schools now rely on State Government money to sustain footy programs. When GWS & Suns came along they immediately wanted Academies too and were allocated zones. This has proven a little successful. When the Academies develop to the stage they are no longer needed and the development is coming through the school system like the Southern states then all clubs would have had access to Academy talent due to the success of those clubs.

    In South Australia & Western Australia the governments & the local leagues pay for development, with a small input from the AFL Development Fund. This is putting a strain on local clubs in SA & WA. In Tasmania, when the AFL took over the running of the State league & called it TASAFL they put almost nop money into local footy and development at all. The local clubs have suffered incredibly under AFL rule. There was a revolt in Tasmania and many clubs & leagues were withdrawing from the AFL system due to lack of funding & development. It is only recently that things have improved after the whole of Tasmanian football rebelled & was going to ditch the AFL.

    This points out that the AFL's total focus is on Victoria at the expense of the other states. The SANFL & WAFL have also been examining their deal with the AFL and since SANFL teams, Port & Adelaide might be playing in the VFL next year they might just pull the plug on their association with the AFL.
    Last edited by wolftone57; 25th November 2023 at 04:37 PM.

  10. #3790
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    Private schools down here also pinch kids from Government schools and give them scholarships to strengthen their teams

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloods05 View Post
    Herbie Matthews, Bob Pratt Jr.
    Hugh McLaughlin Snr and Jnr

  11. #3791
    Ego alta, ergo ictus Ruck'n'Roll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSAS View Post
    We also let Josh Dunkley (son of Andrew) slip through under murky circumstances. He made last minute F/S nomination only for us not to match Bulldogs bid. Rumours abound with that!

    Then you had of course Joe Daniher (son of Anthony) selecting Essendon as F/S instead of us.

    Both decisions were made because of stay home (Victoria).factors.

    Even as South Melbourne, we had very few F/S & can't recall any having successful in my lifetime (60+ years).
    In addition to Andrew Dunkley and Tony Daniher’s sons, we also missed out on the sons of Barry Round, John Pitura, Peter Morrison and Shane Zantuck. All went elsewhere.

    Mark Browning was a good father son.

    The problem is that the eligibility rules changed so often prior to 2003. At the moment it's 100 games, but players whose fathers had as few as 20 games have been selected as father-sons.
    Loose translation from the Latin is - I am tall, so I hit out.

  12. #3792
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    At one stage it was 1 game to qualify for father son, but this was changed a few years ago to 100 games when changes were made to both father son and the academy to basically bring them in line with each other

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