Match Thread. Swans v Hawthorn

[TheBloods]

I would have thought it is totally unrealistic to expect these young (first & second year) players to be able to play consistently high
(or even good) standard games week-in, week-out. This hasn't occurred at any club anywhere in the history of the game, so why
should it occur at the Sydney Swans in 2021? Look at our friends out west. Their crop of younger players go in and out of the team
like yo-yo's too. It's the same at all the clubs. It's almost impossible for 19 year olds and 20 year olds to rack up 15 touches a game
week-in, week-out.
Yep, some of them look spent at the moment. But if resting by putting your hands on your knees is an indicator that you've
had it, then someone should tell Luke Parker. It's nigh on impossible to get onto an AFL list and there are no "dregs" anywhere in
AFL level footy. All of these boys can play. It's just totally unrealistic to expect them to still be going deep into the last quarter like
a JPK or a Pendlebury or a Dangerfield.

Im not expecting great games from him every week. One would do. He is 37 games into his career now and not one of them have been great. Has never even had over 25 touches which should be a achievable at least once or twice if your an inside mid. Never had a coaches vote, never had a Rising star nomination , most outside the swans fans wouldnt know who he is

These arent everything but they are usually a good indication of what a player can become . Max king for example wont kick bags every week but has had a few here and there that suggest he could be a great forward. Noah anderson was quiet on the weekend but has had some great games to suggest what sort of a player he'll be. We havent seen anything of that sort from Rowbottom yet , just moments here and there. The most concerning part as i mentioned is that he was not prolific as a junior either , his record shows he was only averaging 21 disposals as an inside mid so not great signs that we can expect him to become a dominant player

[barry]

Rowbottom's problem is his physical strength. His game style is of a strong inside midfielder (ala Joey Kennedy), which he can probably get away with in juniors and reserve comps. But he is getting exposed at senior level. In modern footy, every time he gets caught with the ball while trying to fend off a tackle, usually ends up with the opposition getting a shot on goal.

Thats not to say he's not in our best 22, but what he needs to do is get the strength of a tom mitchel and then his game will take off. In a few years time, he could be a very good player.
Joey Kennedy is kind of the same. He was doing nothing at Hawthorn until we got him at age 22, and his body developed into his footy style and he went off. Rowy is only 20.
Give him 2 more years.

[bandwagon]

I think this point about selection policy is the important one you make. I've been wondering about both selections and non selections many times when we have nearly a full list to choose from. It often seems that the choices are nether helping those selected nor those not selected.

I'm hesitant to question the selectors when they have so much more information regarding how particular players are going and what targets have been set for them regarding selection. That aside, some of the choices seem odd. The non selection of Brand, playing Heeney when he's injured, perhaps bringing back Fox too soon, and there is a case to answer for the handling of RB as well.

I think our depth in midfielders isn't great. Say that Rowbottom is carrying an injury which is limiting his effectiveness, who is the obvious replacement? There would be doubts that Taylor, Gray, Clarke etc are able to play at the required level. Gulden, Campbell & Warner are injured, and Blakey is out of form, and Stephens hasn't yet the frame to play in the centre square. You could move Hewett, but that leaves us with a less dynamic centre square combination.

Of course, when you do have a player of appropriate experience & physical ability playing well in the VFL (Brand), I have no idea why he would not be selected.

[TheBloods]

I think our depth in midfielders isn't great. Say that Rowbottom is carrying an injury which is limiting his effectiveness, who is the obvious replacement? There would be doubts that Taylor, Gray, Clarke etc are able to play at the required level. Gulden, Campbell & Warner are injured, and Blakey is out of form, and Stephens hasn't yet the frame to play in the centre square. You could move Hewett, but that leaves us with a less dynamic centre square combination.

Of course, when you do have a player of appropriate experience & physical ability playing well in the VFL (Brand), I have no idea why he would not be selected.

How would hewett be any less dynamic at centre square than rowbottom ? They are pretty much the same player just five years apart!

[bandwagon]

How would hewett be any less dynamic at centre square than rowbottom ? They are pretty much the same player just five years apart!

That has some truth this year, however last year Rowbottom earned credit (in my eyes) for his energetic play. I'd hope he can recapture that form, and I'd expect him to exceed that within the next five years. However even if he plateaus at Hewett's level, that is still a decent B-grade player. Every team has them, even champion teams.

[Ralph Dawg]

Errol, Campbell, Wicks, Chad and Hickey making such amazing starts to 2021 was equivalent to adding 5 A to B grade players to our roster. Of course in this context we were able to play such an aggressive and effective style as we now had the skill to pull it off.

With their subsequent reduction in output (except Hickey although even he had his colours lowered on Friday), coupled with injuries, we have essentially come back to the same skill level as last year, hence the return to old the old style of play and habits. We can only play whatever style is comparable to our current form.

Hopefully this break will give the young guys (and Hick) a chance to recharge their batteries and re-energize. Because it's going to be through our youngsters the team will ultimately improve, not the guys who have been fighting the good fight over the last couple of seasons.

[NeonBible]

Hi all, i would just like to add my two cents and hopefully offer a different perspective on Rowbottom

First of all anyone who is contemplating (or in TB's case hoping) that he will be dropped might as well forget that idea as it won't happen. The coaches love him and they are loving what he is doing in what has been a development year for him. Last year he was forced to play above his level due to injuries in the midfield and COVID meaning we couldn't rest youngsters as much as we would've liked. Our depth was challenged. It was valuable experience for Rowy but he didnt get the backseat lessons the coaches intended for him because of it! This year he is getting more of an instructive approach, Mills has come in and been a bit of a buffer, hes also had a few injuries throughout the season so his role is a bit more secondary! He's getting to focus on learning the offensive and defensive side of his game, when to go for the ball and when to go for the man, and getting front row seats to watch how the three older and bigger mids go about it! He wont always get it right but these are the lessons they want him to learn as despite what we all might think, they see him as the one who will lead the midfield in the future alongside Mills. So they will ride the bumps and will give him every chance to learn the game!! His form would have to seriously seriously wane for him to be on the chopping block.

On Friday night's performance again the coaches liked what they saw. From my observations it wasn't one of his better games. The two nasty fend-offs he was given by the Hawthorn players showed he is lacking in strength as barry said above. The side of that argument i hadn't considered is that they meant he was getting into the right positions to be given a fend off. As fabulous as our midfielders like Joey and Parker are, you wont see them being brushed off like that, because they are usually too far behind to get near the playe rwith the ball. Rowbottom has that acceleration off the mark and can close the space between himself and his opponent quite well to keep up with them. It puts him in great positions to close them down with tackles, once he has the strength to make them stick!! None of our older mids have that spring in their step to be able to do that and the coaches aren't discouraged by him being beaten like that. They see it as a positive that he's able to stick on his opponents enough in the first place. Maybe something for us all to consider next time he gets swatted away like a fly!!

I definitely see other concerns in his game but as far as his physicality the powers that be at the club aren't concerned!

CHEER CHEER

[Blood Fever]

Im not expecting great games from him every week. One would do. He is 37 games into his career now and not one of them have been great. Has never even had over 25 touches which should be a achievable at least once or twice if your an inside mid. Never had a coaches vote, never had a Rising star nomination , most outside the swans fans wouldnt know who he is

These arent everything but they are usually a good indication of what a player can become . Max king for example wont kick bags every week but has had a few here and there that suggest he could be a great forward. Noah anderson was quiet on the weekend but has had some great games to suggest what sort of a player he'll be. We havent seen anything of that sort from Rowbottom yet , just moments here and there. The most concerning part as i mentioned is that he was not prolific as a junior either , his record shows he was only averaging 21 disposals as an inside mid so not great signs that we can expect him to become a dominant player

His game against Brisbane where he was injured and played on, was excellent in terms of courage and output.

[royboy42]

Some cant take the leap from junior talent to AFL star and theres no shame in that. He's an average player who can still have a role in the team if used correctly, hes a strong tackler and has good body work at times which would make him an excellent defender. Maybe he replaces Fox or Hewett. But we are lacking a spark in the midfield and we are kidding ourselves if we think he is it , give his midfield minutes to Chad and Florent instead, then Gulden, Stephens etc next year

By the way im glad someone else mentioned the constant hands on knees. It is not a good look when you are side by side with your opponent at a stoppage and you are hunched over sucking in the big ones looking like you would rather be anywhere else. Not lazy but a sign that you lack the competitiveness at the contest and hunger for the next ball to be thrown up. Have said his body language on field has stunk for ages now and been howled at, even someone on here who knows him personally said hes too passive

'Hands on knees...sucking in the big ones?"
Ever noticed out captain Parks does exactly that all the time?
Gonna challenge him on it?

[mcs]

'Hands on knees...sucking in the big ones?"
Ever noticed out captain Parks does exactly that all the time?
Gonna challenge him on it?

Plenty of other quality players around the league do it to.

It might be a sign of fitness not being at the level one would hope, but its hardly the hanging offence being suggested either. I somehow don't think its in the 'leading indicators' that coaches are too concerned about.

Hi all, i would just like to add my two cents and hopefully offer a different perspective on Rowbottom

First of all anyone who is contemplating (or in TB's case hoping) that he will be dropped might as well forget that idea as it won't happen. The coaches love him and they are loving what he is doing in what has been a development year for him. Last year he was forced to play above his level due to injuries in the midfield and COVID meaning we couldn't rest youngsters as much as we would've liked. Our depth was challenged. It was valuable experience for Rowy but he didnt get the backseat lessons the coaches intended for him because of it! This year he is getting more of an instructive approach, Mills has come in and been a bit of a buffer, hes also had a few injuries throughout the season so his role is a bit more secondary! He's getting to focus on learning the offensive and defensive side of his game, when to go for the ball and when to go for the man, and getting front row seats to watch how the three older and bigger mids go about it! He wont always get it right but these are the lessons they want him to learn as despite what we all might think, they see him as the one who will lead the midfield in the future alongside Mills. So they will ride the bumps and will give him every chance to learn the game!! His form would have to seriously seriously wane for him to be on the chopping block.

Its just the same old ramblings that we've seen all season from someone that has already written him off, fed him to the wolves, hung drawn and quartered him and then thrown him off the Sydney Harbour Bridge.

As always, all most would like to see is for consistency about how young players are assessed. For others, they are marked with a free pass because of the style of play, the dynamism of their approach, or whatever other term is this weeks phrase of the week, while a target few are subject to excessive micro-scrutiny of every single little thing - just like this week's absurd focus on hands on the knees at stoppages.

More nuanced comments such as yours recognise that he is like any other young player, will be up and down at times, and will have better and worse games. But that there seems to be a plan, as there invariably is for young players that have talent and need time and experience to develop and to find where the ceiling may be.

For every player that 'bursts' on to the scene, there are just as many that take a long time to reach anywhere near their ceiling. Some of the absolute best players in the modern era fit that profile, as I've said many times on here before. I'm not saying Rowbottom will reach such a level, but would not suprise me if in 2 or 3 years time his career trajectory rapidly takes off either - the building blocks are broadly there.

Maybe the majority will be proven wrong and nostradamus can live out their days saying 'told you so' excessively and at every living moment. But maybe not. Far too early to tell.

You only have to look at the McHack episodes all those years ago to see how it can all just 'click' even after an extended period of inconsistency and promising moments only early in a career. And statistically, Rowbottom is doing just fine in the role he is playing for the stage at his career he is at.

[liz]

It might be a sign of fitness not being at the level one would hope,

On its own I don't think it says anything about fitness. It just says that a player is working up to the limit of his fitness, whatever that might be.

[MattW]

My curiousity on Rowbottom is not what sort of player he can become, which is very good; but how much the knee is bothering him still.

Last year, he showed a fairly dynamic element to his game, with not so much pure speed but both an ability to get up and down the ground, as well as being one of those rare players you see both accelerate into and out of contests.

A bit of that is absent right now, or at least he's not doing it consistently. Which makes me wonder how much training he's doing through the week, and how much the coaches have tailored his role for now to more of a defensive one to match any physical limitations.

It may just be a temporary thing and I'm far more confident that one or two notable exceptions about his long-term capacity to be part of a terrific midfield mix.

Right on.