2020 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[MattW]

O'Connor impressed in some early scratchies before Covid took hold. Must be more advanced than when we signed him, looks a good size, this has been a crap year for an Irish player in his first year so definitely be re-signed.

You would think all those that have been regulars late in the season will continue, Kennedy, Melican, Fox, Thurlow, Wicks plus Hewett.

Amartey was strongly talked up by Longmire before his debut, Brand looked solid before injury, Clarke who knows?

Reynolds got a contract?

We'll find out next week I assume a long with a number of other clubs.

Reynolds done this year.

"Young trio extend" https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/238506/young-trio-extend

Add him to the top bracket.

[barracuda]

Reynolds done this year.

"Young trio extend" https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/238506/young-trio-extend

Add him to the top bracket.
And take Barry Connor And bell off as they have two year deals despite the published lists.

[waswan]

Why we waste time on Cat B rookies etc is beyond me.
Tadg and Stynes in 30yrs yet we have spots available on an AFL list for these guys

There should just be a squad of xx players and they are all available, if a player gets 2x 1yr deals, yr 3 he is a free agent.

On list management in general
KB and co need to sharpen up, 2x Top 10 Picks for Danniher last year and 6 yrs 600k at Langdon, who is probably going to retire due to his knee, the year before

Lucky to dodge those bullets

[barracuda]

Why we waste time on Cat B rookies etc is beyond me.
Tadg and Stynes in 30yrs yet we have spots available on an AFL list for these guys

There should just be a squad of xx players and they are all available, if a player gets 2x 1yr deals, yr 3 he is a free agent.

On list management in general
KB and co need to sharpen up, 2x Top 10 Picks for Danniher last year and 6 yrs 600k at Langdon, who is probably going to retire due to his knee, the year before

Lucky to dodge those bullets

Cat b is outside the main list, and the salary is not included in the cap. Accordingly it is a valuable rookie for a good player. Bell and wicks were both cat b rookies via academy and paid outside the cap.

[waswan]

Just put all the money in the Cap and 1 list.... its a complication for the sake of it

[MattW]

Anyway, I think we should avoid other clubs' discards this year. We should trade or draft (or make offers to FA) players who are established, according to need.

[dejavoodoo44]

Barring a 7 goal final quarter comeback, Adelaide have wrapped up the number one pick. Which is handy for them, as North and probably Hawthorn, look like they need it more. In the first half they were very competitive against Richmond. And the three previous wins suggest that they're heading in the right direction.

Also, earlier in the thread, I posted the names of a few players, who have been delisted and then done well at new clubs. While doing so, I knew that I was forgetting someone, but couldn't remember who it was. That someone is Ben Keays. Delisted by Brisbane last year and now playing really well at Adelaide.

[Thunder Shaker]

Barring a 7 goal final quarter comeback, Adelaide have wrapped up the number one pick. Which is handy for them, as North and probably Hawthorn, look like they need it more. In the first half they were very competitive against Richmond. And the three previous wins suggest that they're heading in the right direction.
Next year, I expect Adelaide will bounce back, and it will be between Hawthorn and North Melbourne as to which team gets the spoon.

North Melbourne is already under no illusions as to where they are, with 11 delistings. Hawthorn may yet cull their list with about half of their players having no contract for next year. If Hawthorn don't make similar cuts to North Melbourne - eight or more - they are in denial.

[Mel_C]

It's amazing what you can learn from these journalistic stunners. You have to scroll down to the last entry, then this:


Tom Derickx (2013)
Delisted by: Richmond
Picked up by: Sydney
After two games in three years at Tigerland, the inexperienced ruckman was snapped up by the Swans. Had a decent first year in the Harbour City after sitting out the first round, playing 12 matches in a row. But was dropped and then knee and hamstring injuries denied him any chance of featuring in the 2014 finals series. Managed just one more game in his final two years with the Swans as Sam Naismith, Toby Nankervis and Callum Sinclair all leapfrogged him in the ruck pecking order. Retired early last month.



Tom Derickx comes through again, by retiring early for the 2nd time, thus opening another spot on our list and perhaps saving the career of young player who was headed for the delisting.


Ludwig I assume you will be tuning in on Sunday to see Derickx strip on The All New Monty? 😉

[dejavoodoo44]

Next year, I expect Adelaide will bounce back, and it will be between Hawthorn and North Melbourne as to which team gets the spoon.

North Melbourne is already under no illusions as to where they are, with 11 delistings. Hawthorn may yet cull their list with about half of their players having no contract for next year. If Hawthorn don't make similar cuts to North Melbourne - eight or more - they are in denial.
Yes, from about two thirds of the way through next season, I expect Clarkson to be lobbying for a priority pick (that's assuming Kennett hasn't had him escorted from the building).

[Ludwig]

I feel sorry for Brady Rowles. He might have the most leg speed of any Swan. He's certainly up there. He hasn't played a game at any level. Any now most of RWO, including myself, think he should or could be delisted.

The 1st round rookie list picks have been great for the Swans. How do we know that Rowles is not a future AFL star? What's the basis for delisting him, except that he's not had any exposed form?

North delisted a 20 yo 4th round pick after 2 years and 0 games, and 3rd year rookie player, 22 yo Tom Murphy, who played 6 games this year. The other 9 ranged from age 23 to 29 (3). So for the most part, we can say the there were a lot of players delisted who had a fair amount of games, but had not done well enough to deserve another contract. I think that's fair enough for a club that needs to get a very fresh start.

The Swans don't have many players in that demographic who are begging for delisting. Thurlow and Clarke would have been the type of player North delisted, but with generally good recent form, have dropped back from the delisting window, or not totally exonerated.

Despite both finishing far down the ladder, we are in different circumstances than North and have very different lists. I don't think we should expect the same action from our management.

[SwanSand]

It seems that we would not delist more than 4-5. But there would be a few on one year contracts.

Maibaum, Rowles, Stoddardt, Reynolds the most likely. Sam Gray should also be. And then there are the fringe ones.
Amartey and Knoll needed but their contracts may get delayed before we recruit someone else from other clubs.
O‘Connor and Brand needed KPD prototype but unclear development and role play so maybe yearly contracts going forward.
Foote, Ronke , Lewis Taylor - all Going for the same spot - along with Wicks, Gulden, Campbell, Papley, Heeney. But maybe with Elijah gone - Foote and Ronke should stay. I am not sure who has more upskilling chance. Both have problems.
In the backline, Ling should stay in my opinion. He is 1st round draftee, who has not been given enough chance to develop. Maybe another with yearly contract till we know what happens with the list size.

Stoddardt is an interesting one - he is skilful, but he probably has no x-factor aka great kicking game like McInerney or booming kick like Thurlow or ability to slot in when someone gets injured and just get the job done but again he is young. Unless we get someone with good skills from another club in the right age group, or we can recycle a forward from another club into a defensive player we should probably hold him.

[MattW]

I feel sorry for Brady Rowles. He might have the most leg speed of any Swan. He's certainly up there. He hasn't played a game at any level. Any now most of RWO, including myself, think he should or could be delisted.

The 1st round rookie list picks have been great for the Swans. How do we know that Rowles is not a future AFL star? What's the basis for delisting him, except that he's not had any exposed form?

North delisted a 20 yo 4th round pick after 2 years and 0 games, and 3rd year rookie player, 22 yo Tom Murphy, who played 6 games this year. The other 9 ranged from age 23 to 29 (3). So for the most part, we can say the there were a lot of players delisted who had a fair amount of games, but had not done well enough to deserve another contract. I think that's fair enough for a club that needs to get a very fresh start.

The Swans don't have many players in that demographic who are begging for delisting. Thurlow and Clarke would have been the type of player North delisted, but with generally good recent form, have dropped back from the delisting window, or not totally exonerated.

Despite both finishing far down the ladder, we are in different circumstances than North and have very different lists. I don't think we should expect the same action from our management.

Agree with all of that. There aren’t many of our players with exposed form demonstrating they’re clearly not up to it. Having said that, we’ve had no sign of any kind Rowles could make it. I think barracuda might have mentioned his skills are poor. I don’t think if seen him in any of the club’s official social media shots, which is kind of strange.

[dejavoodoo44]

Despite both finishing far down the ladder, we are in different circumstances than North and have very different lists. I don't think we should expect the same action from our management.

And I would be very disappointed if we followed a similar path. To me, North's cull was reminiscent of the golden age of tanking, where sides could gamble on getting rid of average players, knowing that a priority pick at the top of the draft, would give them something like picks 1 and 2, and perhaps a handy top up next year, of say, picks 2 and 5. Sometimes that worked, sometimes it seemed to lock in a losing culture. Without a priority pick or two, I can't really see North challenging for the eight, any time soon.

[707]

And take Barry Connor And bell off as they have two year deals despite the published lists.

Thanks guys, I know a number of contract status threads/sites are inaccurate. In dark times having a contract is gold.

Every year there's always a surprise in who did or didn't get delisted. As many of us have noted, no Swan has been cut and gone on to a decent career at another club. Membrey was a trade that didn't happen, we wanted to keep him, he wanted to go. Saints owe us!

[Nico]

The problem with Ronke is he is not getting where the ball is at.

[111431]

The problem with Ronke is he is not getting where the ball is at.

A bit hard with a damaged back

[Ludwig]

The problem with Ronke is he is not getting where the ball is at.


A bit hard with a damaged back

He's only in a position to receive a hospital ball atm. And a visit from Harry Cunningham, of course.

[Nico]

A bit hard with a damaged back

Yeh, but his form was pretty ordinary before that.

What about Ben Brown. If Daniher is no longer on our radar, is Brown.

[Markwebbos]

No to Ben Brown.

[Blood Fever]

No to Ben Brown.

Agree. The original mark and kick footballer. Once the ball is on the ground near him, he becomes a liability.

[longmile]

Agree. The original mark and kick footballer. Once the ball is on the ground near him, he becomes a liability.

I couldn't stand watching that ridiculous run up week in week out even if he was in Swans colours

[MattW]

I couldn't stand watching that ridiculous run up week in week out even if he was in Swans colours

I would be super surprised if we consider him. Longmire has mentioned the importance of players being able to perform in several roles.

[Ludwig]

I know it's verboten to want Hawthorn to win any game, but with a 4 goal lead in the 1st qtr and Geelong heavy favourites to beat us, we are looking in good shape to regain pick 3 in the draft. But if we win, then we will move down to pick 5 by surpassing the Suns.

It's a bit painful to barrack for Hawthron, but no pain, no gain, as they say.

[stevoswan]

I know it's verboten to want Hawthorn to win any game, but with a 4 goal lead in the 1st qtr and Geelong heavy favourites to beat us, we are looking in good shape to regain pick 3 in the draft. But if we win, then we will move down to pick 5 by surpassing the Suns.

It's a bit painful to barrack for Hawthron, but no pain, no gain, as they say.

Six goals to one in the first quarter with the Hawks dominant. Some have said they're tanking. Doesn't appear so.....

Go Suns! (I don't care what draft pick we get).

[707]

I couldn't stand watching that ridiculous run up week in week out even if he was in Swans coloursThat stupid super long galloping giraffe run up is nauseating to watch - a very big NO from me!

[Bexl]

Six goals to one in the first quarter with the Hawks dominant. Some have said they're tanking. Doesn't appear so.....

Go Suns! (I don't care what draft pick we get).
Fair comment nobody and I mean nobody likes to see Hawthorn win game however that said it looks like we will be moving one up in the order on the draught pick hopefully we use it well unless of course we beat Geelong today which would be good

[707]

So who are we selecting with pick 3?

[Markwebbos]

So who are we selecting with pick 3?

If the Crows do pick up Thilthorpe as alleged then we would have a crack at either Hollands or Macdonald.

[Nico]

I wonder what Adelaide would give us for Hayward.

[Mel_C]

I couldn't stand watching that ridiculous run up week in week out even if he was in Swans colours
At the SCG he would start his run up from the opposition goal square.

[Thunder Shaker]

I couldn't stand watching that ridiculous run up week in week out even if he was in Swans colours
Brown's got a longer run-up than Lillee had.

Did he miss his calling as a fast bowler?

[Ludwig]

If the Crows do pick up Thilthorpe as alleged then we would have a crack at either Hollands or Macdonald.Any one of those 3 will be very nice. That's why pick 3 was so much better than 4.

Just that one spot better in the draft makes me want to stay in the draft with our 1st pick, instead of trading it. But we might have to trade for extra points if we use pick 3 and Campbell gets a high bid.

[707]

Any one of those 3 will be very nice. That's why pick 3 was so much better than 4.

Just that one spot better in the draft makes me want to stay in the draft with our 1st pick, instead of trading it. But we might have to trade for extra points if we use pick 3 and Campbell gets a high bid.
The chance to add three top picks in one draft is rare, we'll take the 2021 deficit if we have to just to add those three. Next years draft touted to be one of the best and deepest ever so a deficit won't hurt, be the difference between getting a Jack Trengove at pick 2 and a Dustin Martin at pick 4!

- - - Updated - - -


I wonder what Adelaide would give us for Hayward.

Joined at the hip to Ollie Florent, neither going anywhere. We don't need another draft pick for an 18yo, we need more mature players like Hayward. Buckle in for the ride!

[Ralph Dawg]

The chance to add three top picks in one draft is rare, we'll take the 2021 deficit if we have to just to add those three. Next years draft touted to be one of the best and deepest ever so a deficit won't hurt, be the difference between getting a Jack Trengove at pick 2 and a Dustin Martin at pick 4!

- - - Updated - - -



Joined at the hip to Ollie Florent, neither going anywhere. We don't need another draft pick for an 18yo, we need more mature players like Hayward. Buckle in for the ride!
Hayward has had some quiet games but overall, he's been solid enough. Certainly not average enough to actively seek to trade him out. But if it was needed to land an established star, then sure, we would have to consider it.

[mcs]

The chance to add three top picks in one draft is rare, we'll take the 2021 deficit if we have to just to add those three. Next years draft touted to be one of the best and deepest ever so a deficit won't hurt, be the difference between getting a Jack Trengove at pick 2 and a Dustin Martin at pick 4!

- - - Updated - - -


Joined at the hip to Ollie Florent, neither going anywhere. We don't need another draft pick for an 18yo, we need more mature players like Hayward. Buckle in for the ride!

I reckon Hayward's last couple of months have been really solid. Kid maybe finally finding some groove too, and starting to have the body mass and build to be able to make what were '50/50' contests into ones he can win now. Will be interested to see how he goes next year, as it'll be an important one for him. There is very quickly going to develop strong competition for spots in our best team imho, and he could be vulnerable over time, especially with 3 more good picks coming in this year too.

[mcs]

If the Crows do pick up Thilthorpe as alleged then we would have a crack at either Hollands or Macdonald.

Macdonald for mine is the obvious pick. Has done well in the WAFL, and could easily be ready to play AFL footy in season 2021 for mine. We have to be thinking post buddy now with the choice, and if Thilthorpe is already gone (I do like the idea of finding a forward/ruck), then that's where I would go. Frees up McCartin to be our CHB going forward as well.

[111431]

He's only in a position to receive a hospital ball atm. And a visit from Harry Cunningham, of course.

Very good

[gloveski]

MacDonald , Tillthorp or Hollands I would be happy with either one of them . They all bring to the table something we need


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SwanSand]

McCartin has found his spot and it would be difficult to dislodge him from the back half. We get one forward drafted and one forward traded and one ruck traded in Along with Campbell and gulden - that would be a great end to the year.

[Markwebbos]

Somebody already mentioned Schache. He's got so much talent. If we could find the way to harness it, we'd get him for very little I reckon.

[Markwebbos]

Some talk - admittedly mostly from Damian Barrett - about a player exodus and discontent at the Bombers and Dodoro's position in danger.

Is there a player exodus looming at Essendon? (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/09/20/is-there-a-player-exodus-looming-at-essendon/)
Senior Essendon players left unhappy over handling of Tom Bellchambers retirement (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/09/20/senior-essendon-players-left-unhappy-over-handling-of-bellchambers/)

[tlock]

Players I would put on the trade table: Florent, Hayward, Thurlow, Clarke

[MattW]

Some talk - admittedly mostly from Damian Barrett - about a player exodus and discontent at the Bombers and Dodoro's position in danger.

Is there a player exodus looming at Essendon? (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/09/20/is-there-a-player-exodus-looming-at-essendon/)
Senior Essendon players left unhappy over handling of Tom Bellchambers retirement (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/09/20/senior-essendon-players-left-unhappy-over-handling-of-bellchambers/)

Dodoro doesn't help them, but he's also likely to be unreasonable and intransigent re Daniher to save face. Annoying.

[Nico]

Somebody already mentioned Schache. He's got so much talent. If we could find the way to harness it, we'd get him for very little I reckon.

Sorry Webbo, too many fails. Just hasn't cut it in the big time.

[Ludwig]

With McCartin doing so well as a KPD and Aliir looking as though he could become a good forward/ruck with a pre-season of training, we don't seem so vulnerable at any position going into 2021.

We certainly need more ruck coverage and it's not clear how that comes about, especially as there are several clubs looking for ruckman for next year.

Reid looked a lot better today than last week and expect that he can fill a KPP role adequately enough if we have someone, like Buddy, to take the #1 forward role. We will have to get a forward, like Daniher as a FA, or a KPF in the draft, to get us into the post Buddy era.

I like Dawson in defence, but with Rampe returning and Gould, Brand and O'Connor perhaps challenging for spots in defence, a versatile player like Dawson is likely to show up on the wing or half forward.

I wouldn't be looking to change too much other than these things in the post-season and go into 2021 with the same hand as this year, for the most part.

[rickmat]

What about McCartin's brother? Big unit and key forward target. I know he has had concussion issues but now St Kilda has King and a functioning forward line, they may let him go cheap. Having the 2 McCartin boys would be a positive

[bennyfabulous]

What about McCartin's brother? Big unit and key forward target. I know he has had concussion issues but now St Kilda has King and a functioning forward line, they may let him go cheap. Having the 2 McCartin boys would be a positive

I dont think he is on their list anymore. Delisted last year possibly?

[aardvark]

I dont think he is on their list anymore. Delisted last year possibly?

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/paddy-mccartin-eyeing-an-afl-return-20200413-p54jb9.html

Could be worth a gamble with a late pick?

[MightyBloods]

Players I would put on the trade table: Florent, Hayward, Thurlow, Clarke
This is a joke right? Firstly, we would get next to nothing back in trading Thurlow and Clarke and I admit I saw both these guys getting delisted a month ago. Their improved recent form warrants them staying on our list. Florent and Hayward are still young talents and I was frustrated with them today with their non-clean hands but they weren't alone. I still have a lot of time for Florent as he knows where to run and has a real crack. I think he'll develop into a very important player for us with more confidence and experience. Hayward is an interesting but talented player. My gut feel is that he may be a better player behind the ball rather than freelancing ahead of the ball. I don't question his effort but he can get lost across half forward.

[MightyBloods]

With McCartin doing so well as a KPD and Aliir looking as though he could become a good forward/ruck with a pre-season of training, we don't seem so vulnerable at any position going into 2021.

We certainly need more ruck coverage and it's not clear how that comes about, especially as there are several clubs looking for ruckman for next year.

Reid looked a lot better today than last week and expect that he can fill a KPP role adequately enough if we have someone, like Buddy, to take the #1 forward role. We will have to get a forward, like Daniher as a FA, or a KPF in the draft, to get us into the post Buddy era.

I like Dawson in defence, but with Rampe returning and Gould, Brand and O'Connor perhaps challenging for spots in defence, a versatile player like Dawson is likely to show up on the wing or half forward.

I wouldn't be looking to change too much other than these things in the post-season and go into 2021 with the same hand as this year, for the most part.

Finding a number 1 ruck is the key for me and I do agree with Dawson being on a wing. His composure and elite kicking across midfield can really open up holes in the opposition defence.

[MightyBloods]

Macdonald for mine is the obvious pick. Has done well in the WAFL, and could easily be ready to play AFL footy in season 2021 for mine. We have to be thinking post buddy now with the choice, and if Thilthorpe is already gone (I do like the idea of finding a forward/ruck), then that's where I would go. Frees up McCartin to be our CHB going forward as well.

I think we have found a forward/ruck in Alir. He just needs to build his tank as he does tire easily but being smarter with his running patterns should improve this. I'm still inclined to go for the best midfielder at No 3 (Hollands/Phillips). MacDonald is tempting as he has shown he can mark in traffic in senior football which for a young key forward is rare. He's a good kick and I wouldn't be unhappy if we selected him. The recruiters may go that way seeing we will get Campbell and Gulden in later picks.

[Ralph Dawg]

Thinking about our ruck issues, our best hope is to engineer an inspired, left field selection of an unheralded ruckman, then turn him into a solid contributer a la Mummy and Pyke. If we made those moves today, there would be plenty of knockers - Mummy too fat and unfit, Pyke no experience Rugby fullback.

I wonder if there's someone floating around the tier immediately below AFL we could rookie list? Or trade in someone like Archie Smith who has been behind Stef for a long time and now looks to have fallen behind the Big O? Many are pushing for Preuss - I have my concerns about anyone who seems to be happy to be backup but he could be another Mummy as well..........

[dejavoodoo44]

Thinking about our ruck issues, our best hope is to engineer an inspired, left field selection of an unheralded ruckman, then turn him into a solid contributer a la Mummy and Pyke. If we made those moves today, there would be plenty of knockers - Mummy too fat and unfit, Pyke no experience Rugby fullback.

I wonder if there's someone floating around the tier immediately below AFL we could rookie list? Or trade in someone like Archie Smith who has been behind Stef for a long time and now looks to have fallen behind the Big O? Many are pushing for Preuss - I have my concerns about anyone who seems to be happy to be backup but he could be another Mummy as well..........

In the second academy game against GWS, there was an ex-rugby player, Lachlan McAndrew. He looked more like 210cm, than 200cm. He dominated in the ruck. Late in the game, he seemed to have been given the instructions to thump the ball into space; which he did. Seems to have a reasonable amount of pace. He's also been playing for Manly in the SFL. In their last game, he was rated as their BOG.

However, he is a beanpole, so there might be some doubt on his durability? Though spending time in rugby scrums, probably means that he has some sort of toughness. Could be worth a spot on the rookie list, as a project ruckman.

[liz]

In the second academy game against GWS, there was an ex-rugby player, Lachlan McAndrew. He looked more like 210cm, than 200cm. He dominated in the ruck. Late in the game, he seemed to have been given the instructions to thump the ball into space; which he did. Seems to have a reasonable amount of pace. He's also been playing for Manly in the SFL. In their last game, he was rated as their BOG.

However, he is a beanpole, so there might be some doubt on his durability? Though spending time in rugby scrums, probably means that he has some sort of toughness. Could be worth a spot on the rookie list, as a project ruckman.

There was a bit about him (and another recent raw ruck "find" on the Swans' website a few weeks back.

Academy plays the patient game (https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/795080/academy-plays-the-patient-game)

Both sound like players to wait and see how they develop next year and beyond.

[dejavoodoo44]

There was a bit about him (and another recent raw ruck "find" on the Swans' website a few weeks back.

Academy plays the patient game (https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/795080/academy-plays-the-patient-game)

Both sound like players to wait and see how they develop next year and beyond.
Yes, and having ruck whisperer, Taubert, giving them advice, can only help.

[Bexl]

My son who follows the footy more closely than I do feels that Adelaide will get pick two compensation for losing Brad crouch pushing our pick back to pic 4 do people think that's right or his wrong

[Markwebbos]

My son who follows the footy more closely than I do feels that Adelaide will get pick two compensation for losing Brad crouch pushing our pick back to pic 4 do people think that's right or his wrong

Nobody knows how the AFLs secret mixture of “herbs and spices” works!

My expectation is that there is no way the AFL gives them pick 2. Might give them a mid (somehow) or end of first rounder.

Which makes it more likely they’ll try and force a trade.

The Hun saying the Bombers might not try and force a trade for Daniher if the AFL says they’ll get pick 7 as compensation.

[The Big Cat]

Nobody knows how the AFLs secret mixture of “herbs and spices” works!

My expectation is that there is no way the AFL gives them pick 2. Might give them a mid (somehow) or end of first rounder.

Which makes it more likely they’ll try and force a trade.

The Hun saying the Bombers might not try and force a trade for Daniher if the AFL says they’ll get pick 7 as compensation.

They can't force anything, anyway. He's out of contract, so he can just walk to the preseason draft. Other teams have shown a reluctance to interfere with that process. Luke Ball went through to 30 something and the Sun's bloke who ended up at Carlton last year slipped through to them. By the time the PSD comes around most teams have got their TPP filled up. All Daniher needs to do is put a price on his head that he knows Adelaide and North won't match.

[Captain]

Given the strange year we have had (and not Vic under 18 games), I feel that the top 10 are going to far more difficult to pick this year and there will be a heap of 'sliders'.

Campbell and Gulden give us a couple of top 20 picks already, so I would be open to trading pick 3 if the right deal was to be had.

[Ludwig]

Nobody knows how the AFLs secret mixture of “herbs and spices” works!

My expectation is that there is no way the AFL gives them pick 2. Might give them a mid (somehow) or end of first rounder.

Which makes it more likely they’ll try and force a trade.

The Hun saying the Bombers might not try and force a trade for Daniher if the AFL says they’ll get pick 7 as compensation.Agree about the compensation probabilities. But I think Adelaide should be happy enough to get a mid 1st rounder for Crouch. I don't know if any club would be willing to give more. Maybe he just stays at Adelaide.

I think if we want Daniher and we can come to a salary deal then Essendon will let him got for a compo pick 7. This story could unfold this week. Once we see what's happening with Daniher, we can plan the rest of the trade and draft season.

[111431]

based on how Daniher played on the weekend - you only want him for what he showed when played in the ruck in the last qtr. for the first 3/4 he looked disinterested or injured

[Nico]

Finding a number 1 ruck is the key for me and I do agree with Dawson being on a wing. His composure and elite kicking across midfield can really open up holes in the opposition defence.

I think Dawson has become more effective when drifting back and intercepting. I think he is the ultimate "no position" player. Call him a swing man or ruck-rover where he really doesn't slot into a position except in the papers.

[Markwebbos]

Agree about the compensation probabilities. But I think Adelaide should be happy enough to get a mid 1st rounder for Crouch. I don't know if any club would be willing to give more. Maybe he just stays at Adelaide.

I think if we want Daniher and we can come to a salary deal then Essendon will let him got for a compo pick 7. This story could unfold this week. Once we see what's happening with Daniher, we can plan the rest of the trade and draft season.

I think you are probably right about both. Problem with Crouch is that he’s not worth the $700k a year that would get them a high compensation pick. But he thinks he is.

I wonder if any of his suitors would actually want to have to trade for him.

That’s why I think the AFL will pull a Ty Vickery trick that will satisfy everyone. Mid to late first rounder.

[Nico]

I think you are probably right about both. Problem with Crouch is that he’s not worth the $700k a year that would get them a high compensation pick. But he thinks he is.

I wonder if any of his suitors would actually want to have to trade for him.

That’s why I think the AFL will pull a Ty Vickery trick that will satisfy everyone. Mid to late first rounder.

Hawthorn anyone.

[707]

based on how Daniher played on the weekend - you only want him for what he showed when played in the ruck in the last qtr. for the first 3/4 he looked disinterested or injured
Disinterested - no problems

Injured - yikes!

To get Bombers pick 7 we will have to be offering at least $750k for 2-3 years, that's a big commitment with Buddy still having two years to run but we may have room. No way do we trade for JD, he can go to the PSD for nothing, He wants to leave the spotlight in Melbourne so Crows and Norf don't suit and he doesn't even have to talk to them which is what Martin did last year in refusing to talk to Melbourne who had a pick before Carlton.

Will Brad Crouch nett Crows pick 2? The money on offer would have to be as for Daniher. Brad has had serios injury problems in the past, is a good accumulator of the ball but is one paced and ordinary disposal by foot. I don't have him in the echelon of mids to command that kind of money on the supposed five years he wants. Who are possible suitors with $ to burn? St.Kilda? Norf? Not Bombers as it would cancel out their JD compo pick. No club is trading for Crouch, he's too fragile and vanilla.

Lots to play out here, let's hope we still have pick 3 come draft night and a compo pick hasn't pushed it back. IMO no compo pick should be slotted in above the non finalists.

[Nico]

Hawthorn usually take the injured yesterday's heroes.

[707]

Hawthorn anyone.

The last thing they need is yet another one paced mid with ordinary foot disposal, already got several!

[O'Reilly Boy]

So, how many players will we have to delist, and who is most at risk?

For me:

Stoddard
Ling
Maibaum
Taylor, E
Gray (is he contracted for another year?)
Knoll
Brand
O'Riordan
Ronke

I think that Clarke, Thurlow and Fox have shown enough to be retained, and that the other Taylor was doing enough to snag a small forward role ahead of Ronke.
I feel for Ling, but think that he falls down the pecking order as it has unfolded this season. Stoddard has had two cracks and not had an impact. Maibaum I also feel for, but the back half is looking sturdier with McCartin looking very good, Mellican finding some form, Rampe to return, and Gould hopefully to have an impact. Brand? And I wonder with Thurlow, Fox and Dawson whether we need O'Riordan.
Amartey stays, and we probably have to give Reynolds and Rowles a crack.

[Ralph Dawg]

Can anyone explain to me how retirements are viewed in the AFL? For example, Buddy retires but has 2 years left on contract. Does he still get paid for those years? If so, does that then come off our cap? If he doesn't, does it still come off our cap? If a payout is negotiated, does it come off the cap?

[Blood Fever]

So, how many players will we have to delist, and who is most at risk?

For me:

Stoddard
Ling
Maibaum
Taylor, E
Gray (is he contracted for another year?)
Knoll
Brand
O'Riordan
Ronke

I think that Clarke, Thurlow and Fox have shown enough to be retained, and that the other Taylor was doing enough to snag a small forward role ahead of Ronke.
I feel for Ling, but think that he falls down the pecking order as it has unfolded this season. Stoddard has had two cracks and not had an impact. Maibaum I also feel for, but the back half is looking sturdier with McCartin looking very good, Mellican finding some form, Rampe to return, and Gould hopefully to have an impact. Brand? And I wonder with Thurlow, Fox and Dawson whether we need O'Riordan.
Amartey stays, and we probably have to give Reynolds and Rowles a crack.

Would be surprised if ORiordan was cut and I would like to keep Brand. Looked very handy in his brief appearances.

[gloveski]

Can anyone explain to me how retirements are viewed in the AFL? For example, Buddy retires but has 2 years left on contract. Does he still get paid for those years? If so, does that then come off our cap? If he doesn't, does it still come off our cap? If a payout is negotiated, does it come off the cap?

If buddy retires it comes off our cap


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[Ralph Dawg]

If buddy retires it comes off our cap


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If hubs are the new normal, months away from your normal life (outside of footy), it does make me wonder how motivated Buddy would be, given his recent injury history, new child and of course father time.

[Aprilbr]

My recollection of the Buddy deal is that we still have to keep his $ on our salary cap regardless of retirement.

On other recent comments, I will be quite surprised if we trade away our Number 3 pick. I can't see Adelaide getting a really low pick as compensation for Crouch.

I think that Daniher will leave Essendon. Whether he goes to us is another story. We are probably slight favourite now. There is no point trying to trade with Dodorro as we all know from past events, so make a reasonable offer to Daniher but not an excessive offer and see what happens. If Essendon match, which they likely won't, then so be it.

[Nico]

I doubt any club will offer more than 3 years for a player moving clubs. The trading and FA landscape has changed.

[Blood Fever]

My recollection of the Buddy deal is that we still have to keep his $ on our salary cap regardless of retirement.

On other recent comments, I will be quite surprised if we trade away our Number 3 pick. I can't see Adelaide getting a really low pick as compensation for Crouch.

I think that Daniher will leave Essendon. Whether he goes to us is another story. We are probably slight favourite now. There is no point trying to trade with Dodorro as we all know from past events, so make a reasonable offer to Daniher but not an excessive offer and see what happens. If Essendon match, which they likely won't, then so be it.

Will feel very uneasy if we get Daniher

[Markwebbos]

Bombers have just put a 4 year offer on the table for Daniher.

Not sure if that’s for his benefit or to guarantee they get pick 7 if he walks (on the basis any other club would have to beat it).

I’m not sure he’d find it easy to “betray” the club and leave for nothing in the PSD.

[waswan]

Will feel very uneasy if we get Daniher

Me too..... Dodoro should get sacked for not taking 2 picks.... we should have someone marched for offering 2 picks

[Brettb]

Will feel very uneasy if we get Daniher

Sam McLure on 3AW suggesting Brisbane are the favourites for Daniher.

He also stated that Brad Crouch decision is down to two, Sydney or Geelong

[Mark26]

Sam McLure on 3AW suggesting Brisbane are the favourites for Daniher.

He also stated that Brad Crouch decision is down to two, Sydney or Geelong

Wow! Do we want Crouch? I haven't paid much attention to him. I have to admit I don't watch many other games besides the Swans. Does he play as an inside or out mid?

[Markwebbos]

Who do we need more, a ball-winning mid or a match-winning fwd? Both injury prone. Both RFA!

I’m stunned by the Crouch rumour if true.

Perhaps we could get BC as a RFA and give the Crows pick 2 as a result which they use to draft a tall forward.

[Bloody Hell]

It's going to be hard to make other trade and draft decisions before the Daniher outcome is decided.

If we get Daniher as a FA, I would definitely try to make a deal trading our pick 4,

My idea would be to trade both picks 4 and 23 for a player and a slew of later picks that will ensure we have enough points for both Campbell and Gulden, which I figure will be less than 2000 points even if Campbell goes as high as pick 7. Two possible trades could be:
.

At the top end of the draft you are looking for the best talent. Pick 4 will be better than Campbell.

With Riccardi's late season form, Himmelberg may be getable.

[Ludwig]

I thought Crouch was nearly certain to go to Geelong, which would be a sensible move. I can't see why we would want another midfielder. He's a good player, no doubt, but I wouldn't get into a dog fight for him. He would be a sort of replacement for JPK, would argue the camp that wants him.

As for Daniher, it's always hard to make a call based on future injury projections. He's a risk for sure, but who can say how big a risk. What he has going for him is that we can certainly use a quality #1 forward who can also ruck. And he wouldn't come at the cost of a draft pick, so it's only money.

[Ludwig]

With Riccardi's late season form, Himmelberg may be getable.I like Himmelberg, but would much prefer going after a forward who also puts some time in the ruck. Himmelberg is more of a 3rd forward. I think we have players who can do that role. He's had a mediocre year as well, but that may be partially due to GWS playing so poorly.

[Markwebbos]

The only way we would trade pick 3 is for an exceptional player. Otherwise take it to the draft.

[Markwebbos]

Although it will slide to pick 4 and ...

AFL Draft: Pick 4 - who has been the best and who will be selected this year? | Sporting News Australia (https://www.sportingnews.com/au/afl/news/afl-draft-pick-4-who-has-been-the-best-and-who-will-be-selected-this-year/vdqhm3xxrntt1xk71e8jy1a9d)

“Pick four has never been a favourite of the Sydney Swans, despite them using it more than any other club. The Swans have held the selection four times, but have only received 36 senior games in return. Their first shot was their best with Andrew McGovern (1991) playing 20 times. Ryan Fitzgerald played 10 games, Mark Kinnear (1996) just six, while Glenn Gorman (1993) never took the field for Sydney. It’s a pity they couldn’t get another 80 games out of McGovern so that his two sons, Jeremy and Mitch, could have qualified as father-son selections.“

[Aprilbr]

Like everyone else I'm surprised to hear that we are apparently in the mix for Crouch. Good player but big bucks$. Is it the right time for us to chase someone like that?

I just heard that Carlton are looking at paying Zac Williams $850k to 900k per year on a long-term deal. Seems huge$ for a half back flanker. Crazy money.

[MattW]

I'm surprised we're in for Crouch, but it makes sense if we don't think any of our current squad can evolve into a Parker/Kennedy contested ball/clearance beast over the next two years. He'd help bridge the development gap to the younger players.

Crouch averages 26 possessions, 5 tackles and 5 clearances over his career. He's a bit over a year younger than Parker and his stats are pretty similar:

"Brad Crouch and Luke Parker AFL Stats Comparison" https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=2&pid1=3633&fid1=C&playerStatus2=A&tid2=17&pid2=3485&fid2=C&type=A.

This report is a useful primer: "Buyer beware: What's Brad Crouch worth?" https://www.afl.com.au/news/477160/-buyer-beware-what-s-brad-crouch-worth-.

He's played 117 games fewer than Parker and this seems to be down to injury.

There's a suggestion in that report that he 'lost zip' after missing all of 2018 with a groin injury, but he did average 30 possessions a game in 2019 and won Adelaide's b&f. He also missed all of 2015 with a foot injury. Missed six games this year with a hamstring. Only played two full seasons and they were his best, stats-wise.

[troyjones2525]

Crouch is a good player and a year or 2 ago I would probably have welcomed the news that we may get him but with his age and injury history I'd prefer us to take a stab at a Charlie Constable instead who is a big bodied mid who hasn't had much of a go at the Cats for obvious reasons. He'd be only 20 or 21 years old and has shown an ability to get the ball when playing as well as the VFL last year.

I hope we are seriously looking at him!

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[Steve]

We need more midfield quality so I wouldn’t be shocked if we were looking at Crouch, but he’s turning 27 and injury prone, and just not worth the money he’d be seeking.

We could get a couple of decent 22-25 y/o mids looking for more opportunities for the same price (combined) and not have to trade much away for them. And that would be a much better fit for us to be a much better team across the next 10 years rather than just the next couple.

I think the PSD is a legitimate bargaining chip if Daniher still wants to come to Sydney. If we made a FA bid for him and Essendon matched only to try and force a trade, then if they ask for too much I think that’s reasonable grounds for Daniher to say to Essendon “I wanted you to get compensation but if you won’t accept the FA pick or the trade Sydney have offered, you give me no choice but to go into the PSD”, and he not feel guilty about doing so.

[bloodspirit]

Re Crouch

I don't watch enough non-Swans games to know much about him other than by reputation. However, I can understand we may want a player of his age/experience and quality. We don't need so many more young and promising players because we have a lot of them already. Also, if he's a free agent he won't cost draft picks.

Another factor that may be relevant is that apart from JPK and Parker aging (although Parker is over 4 years younger than JPK), possibly Hewett's injury is worse than we know and if he disappears that is one of our few 100 gamers (near enough) and plays a similar role. Or possibly Hewett wants to return to SA now that he's a dad. We just don't know what's going on.

*****

Otherwise, more generally, I think they must be doing exit interviews yesterday, today and tomorrow and very soon we'll know more about who is going to be delisted. Feels tougher than usual, especially with no retirements.

[Aprilbr]

Yes this is a tough time at all Clubs. Coaching staff advising players that their AFL dream is over. We have no retirements of any veterans this season which is unusual for us so it will be youngsters and "journey men" players that get the knife. Tough times. I still think we will move on up to 10 players.

[Ralph Dawg]

What do people think is the likelihood of Joey retiring and that's why we're interested in Brouch? He has a young family and with the potential for more Covid induced difficulties moving forward, could he call time? Might even be conditional on getting a suitable replacement as he has always been a team man of the highest order.

[waswan]

Top 5 pick in the draft
In my opinion, 75% cgance of success when choosing a Mid, 40% when choosing a Key Position.

We have to use that pick on a mid, Round 1 would be 15 possessions

[Markwebbos]

What do people think is the likelihood of Joey retiring and that's why we're interested in Brouch? He has a young family and with the potential for more Covid induced difficulties moving forward, could he call time? Might even be conditional on getting a suitable replacement as he has always been a team man of the highest order.

He’ll be 32 next year. Could retire or could be moved out of the engine room in a Burgoyne type role.

I’m not sure if Crouch is the answer but we’ve been getting killed in clearances for some time now.

[AnnieH]

Any talk of retirements?
Surely they would have been announced by now.

- - - Updated - - -

If Buddy retires, we STILL have to pay him for the next two years.
Remember, Eddie the arsehole made the AFL make extra conditions after they had already approved the transfer.

[707]

..... I’m not sure if Crouch is the answer but we’ve been getting killed in clearances for some time now.

So have the Crows!

I'd be stunned if we are looking to pay Crouch the kind of money that will get Crows pick 2 as compo. If we are genuinely looking at Crouch then we aren't looking at Daniher, doubt we could afford both unless there's a real delisting spree to free up the money and the other spare spots are filled with cheap "hail Mary" draftees.

If we added Crouch, Daniher, pick 3, Campbell and Gulden, that would be a wow off season, providing the two FA stay on the park!

Fopr posters chatting about who may be delisted, a number of the players suggested have contracts for 2021 so will be staying, Gray, L Taylor, Bell, the Irishmen etc so no point suggesting them as outs.

- - - Updated - - -


Any talk of retirements?
Surely they would have been announced by now.

- - - Updated - - -

If Buddy retires, we STILL have to pay him for the next two years.
Remember, Eddie the arsehole made the AFL make extra conditions after they had already approved the transfer.Enough of that Annie! Fat Chins is acceptable :-)

[bloodspirit]

Any talk of retirements?
Surely they would have been announced by now.

- - - Updated - - -

If Buddy retires, we STILL have to pay him for the next two years.
Remember, Eddie the arsehole made the AFL make extra conditions after they had already approved the transfer.


We don't have to pay Buddy if he retires, just count his salary in our cap. From a list management point of view same thing. But from a club finances point of view, big difference.

No chance we will take JD and Crouch, if either. Talk is Crouch is going to join Dangerfield at Geelong.

JD is as risky a proposition as ever. It's a risk I'd be willing to take subject to due diligence and only at the right price. Realistically you'd have to consider something like 3 years at $600K p.a. Which is a lot of money for so much uncertainty both in terms of his body holding up and his attitude. I don't think I'd want us to offer more than that. If he worked out and played every game, that'd be sensational value. But we pretty much know that's not going to happen.

I think Joey is 32 years old already (born June 1988).

[SwanSand]

Maybe the Crouch factor is because Hewett wants to head back to Adelaide.
We are likely to see only 4 - 5 delistings and maybe Hewett heads home.
More delistings next year i guess.
It would not be a bad option to go for something like this -
Campbell, Gulden, Elijah Hollands - Draft
Crouch and Ruck Trade in.
It would make us very very competitive.

If we take away the Fremantle game, we were scoring around 40 - 50 points a game through the year with practically half functional midfield, ruck and forward line. Plus the added factor of The COVID situation and lack of training together and lots of travel etc

The backline is already looking great with McCartin, Rampe, Mills, Lloyd, Cunningham, Thurlow and Melican. Backup Brand, Riordan, O'Connor, Aliir, Dawson. I think we still need Stoddardt and Ling in there if needed. Both are reasonably good. Ling in particular will get better.

Midfield of Kennedy, Parker, Stephens, Clarke, Rowbottom and rotating players such as JMac, Papley, Heeney. We do lack 1 - 2 genuine players in there and having Campbell and Crouch may be a big bonus. One with big body and another with speed and great kick. If Elijah Hollands is doing well from his knee perspective, get him and that would complete our midfield. Although he is probably a Halfforward rather than a true midfielder.
Backup of Chad Warner, Sam Wicks

Forward - We are lacking in some young talented KPF now that McCartin has gone back but i guess we need to buy one rather than develop one as it takes years to develop one. And we can still end up having someone like Mitch McGovern, Schache or Eric Hipwood who are still considered second or third KPF rather than the primary one on the list.

[The Runner]

We aren't going to be active in trades this year. We don't have the picks available to us, or a player that's an asset that we're willing to move.
I suggest considering Majak as a ruck option that's free on the open market. He never got a proper run in the ruck due to the durability of Goldstein. But he together with Aliir could form a formidable partnership of ruck/forwards.

We need to be prepared for shifting back to pick 5. Bulldogs are #1, and Adelaide will likely get #3 as comp for Crouch (after their current #2).

Getting Crouch is hard to judge the value in. Similar to Daniher, we can easily pay overs for one of them. Given we are already doing that for Buddy and Reid, that carries risk of squeezing out players we'd ideally keep.

[mattybloods]

If Hewitt wants to head home to Adelaide then it would be great trading with Port. Two players I'd be interested in are Ladhams and Marshall, happy with either

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[barry]

I think majak will be hot property this trade period and end up somewhere. (Unless he has an injury problem)

[rb4x]

I doubt if Hewett will be heading to Adelaide. He is from Port Broughton not Adelaide.

[gloveski]

Don’t want Hewitt going anywhere


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[Aprilbr]

I dont expect us to be too active in trades as the squad is not ready to contend. Bring in the two Academy guns plus an early pick. If we can pick up JD through free agency at a fair price then great. If not, then not the end of the world. I think Crouch will want too much money to suit us.

[Auntie.Gerald]

https://www.afl.com.au/news/510136/22under22-team-revealed-three-time-bomber-skipper-third-cap-for-gun-blue

interesting

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.afl.com.au/news/510136/22under22-team-revealed-three-time-bomber-skipper-third-cap-for-gun-blue

interesting

[TheBloods]

Midfield of Kennedy, Parker, Stephens, Clarke, Rowbottom and rotating players such as JMac, Papley, Heeney. We do lack 1 - 2 genuine players in there and having Campbell and Crouch may be a big bonus. One with big body and another with speed and great kick. If Elijah Hollands is doing well from his knee perspective, get him and that would complete our midfield. Although he is probably a Halfforward rather than a true midfielder.
Backup of Chad Warner, Sam Wicks



Well this is interesting as I have been called a heretic in these circles for suggesting that the answer to our future midfield might not be Florent & Rowbottom and yet the consensus seems to be that we need an elite talent in the midfield. Forgive me but if those lads are going to be as good as everyone thinks they are, why would we need to draft another ?

[AnnieH]

https://www.afl.com.au/news/510136/22under22-team-revealed-three-time-bomber-skipper-third-cap-for-gun-blue

interesting

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.afl.com.au/news/510136/22under22-team-revealed-three-time-bomber-skipper-third-cap-for-gun-blue

interesting

Have I just read that right?
We have the youngest team in the comp and we didn't get one in the 22 under 22?
Very interesting.

[barry]

Have I just read that right?
We have the youngest team in the comp and we didn't get one in the 22 under 22?
Very interesting.

My biggest worry, is we are overrating our youngsters.

[jono2707]

What's with the talk of Hewitt maybe leaving? Unless there's some sort of solid evidence of a player wanting out (or others wanting in), we should be staying upfront in our posts that it's just conjecture.

This is RWO, not the Melbourne media, so let's at least keep some vague relationship with reality.

[mattybloods]

What's with the talk of Hewitt maybe leaving? Unless there's some sort of solid evidence of a player wanting out (or others wanting in), we should be staying upfront in our posts that it's just conjecture.

This is RWO, not the Melbourne media, so let's at least keep some vague relationship with reality.Until he signs a contract for next year he's a possibility of leaving

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[Blood Fever]

What's with the talk of Hewitt maybe leaving? Unless there's some sort of solid evidence of a player wanting out (or others wanting in), we should be staying upfront in our posts that it's just conjecture.

This is RWO, not the Melbourne media, so let's at least keep some vague relationship with reality.

Agree. Lot of nonsense thrown out there from countless Melbourne footy journos. Feeding the neuroses of the nuffies and justifying their jobs.

[stevoswan]

What's with the talk of Hewitt maybe leaving? Unless there's some sort of solid evidence of a player wanting out (or others wanting in), we should be staying upfront in our posts that it's just conjecture.

This is RWO, not the Melbourne media, so let's at least keep some vague relationship with reality.

Hear, hear!

[Nico]

We aren't going to be active in trades this year. We don't have the picks available to us, or a player that's an asset that we're willing to move.
I suggest considering Majak as a ruck option that's free on the open market. He never got a proper run in the ruck due to the durability of Goldstein. But he together with Aliir could form a formidable partnership of ruck/forwards.

We need to be prepared for shifting back to pick 5. Bulldogs are #1, and Adelaide will likely get #3 as comp for Crouch (after their current #2).

Getting Crouch is hard to judge the value in. Similar to Daniher, we can easily pay overs for one of them. Given we are already doing that for Buddy and Reid, that carries risk of squeezing out players we'd ideally keep.

I can't see how Crouch would be a pick 3 compo. Martin maybe, but Crouch is a round 2.

[Markwebbos]

I can't see how Crouch would be a pick 3 compo. Martin maybe, but Crouch is a round 2.

And not in our interest to offer him a deal that would push our pick 3 back to 4. Interesting times!

I'm still not convinced we are in the market for Crouch, but then I was totally blindsided by Buddy.

[707]

Here's our drafting targets - A question asked of draft watcher "Knightmare" as to who are the best kicks in this draft, he replied

Elijah Hollands, Jack Ginnivan, Connor Downie (Haw) and Errol Gulden (Syd) are among those top of mind I'd have in the conversation. Definitely add Campbell. He's a top 1-3 kick. One of if not the most damaging kick.

So we all on board for elite kickers this draft?

[707]

And not in our interest to offer him a deal that would push our pick 3 back to 4. Interesting times!

I'm still not convinced we are in the market for Crouch, but then I was totally blindsided by Buddy.Every body except for the leak proof half dozen involved were blind sided by that!

Crouch to us? Just a manager's hot air to pump up his client as I suspect the offers are below getting the Crows pick 2. JD yes, Crouch no.

[SwanSand]

I am not too surprised that we don’t have anyone in under 22 top 22 players. Many of the players are nearly 22 in that list and some of them such as king brothers are actually excellent.

I don’t think having an elite talent Of 1-3 players helps to win premierships anyway. If we have hardworking multiple players in the second 22 maybe, we should do very well. Our lads who have talent are all 20 and under - Rowbottom, Stephens, Jmac and McCartin.

Florent and Ling are the ones who were probably expected to get into that list but they are not and that is a bit disappointing.

I would get Elijah, Campbell and Gulden in this draft. Not worry about KPD or KPF. It takes years to develop them anyways and we can certainly buy them in a year or 2 if we think we are otherwise ok on our list.

Fix midfield depth First with talented 2 way runners and good kickers, followed by elite line breakers. This with atleast competitive Ruck. We have elite small forwards lined up already and I think our wing is going to be ok. Then we worry about KPF.

The best example of this is Brisbane Lions.... great midfield depth and ruck without good KPF and still doing well in the competition.

[giant]

I see Serong, a player many pundits had us selecting at pick 5 last year, won the best first year player. There is much positivity around Stephens here, and he's obviously a talented kid - but arguably, Serong might have been our third best midfielder already if we'd selected him. Beetson, who gets so many draft selections right, seems to get way too cute when it comes to the (non-academy) first round picks - dare I say it, Stephens has the whiff of Paddy Vezpremi about him. God I hope that's not how it plays out.

[Aprilbr]

I think Stephens will really develop. Elite runner and can already win possessions. Needs to build up and learn. Give him time please. I recall thinking that McVeigh was a dud in his first season or two. How wrong was I!

[MattW]

I see Serong, a player many pundits had us selecting at pick 5 last year, won the best first year player. There is much positivity around Stephens here, and he's obviously a talented kid - but arguably, Serong might have been our third best midfielder already if we'd selected him. Beetson, who gets so many draft selections right, seems to get way too cute when it comes to the (non-academy) first round picks - dare I say it, Stephens has the whiff of Paddy Vezpremi about him. God I hope that's not how it plays out.

I don't see the Vezpremi comparison at all. Vezpremi look like he struggled at the level pretty much straight away, whereas Stephens clearly has class (IMO), confidence and is improving game on game. With respect, I can't even conceive of a basis you'd make that comparison.

[SwanSand]

Some of these decisions are made keeping in mind what’s coming and what we have got. Serong probably may be similar to Campbell and hence not selected and also we need better wingman and players who can be inside and outside too. Hence Stephens. I think we did well there.

[TheBloods]

I am not too surprised that we don’t have anyone in under 22 top 22 players. Many of the players are nearly 22 in that list and some of them such as king brothers are actually excellent.

I don’t think having an elite talent Of 1-3 players helps to win premierships anyway. If we have hardworking multiple players in the second 22 maybe, we should do very well. Our lads who have talent are all 20 and under - Rowbottom, Stephens, Jmac and McCartin.


I do not agree that you don't need 1-3 players with elite talent to win premierships. A quick glance at every premiers from the last however many years will tell us that.

Richmond - Dusty, Cotchin, Lynch, Grimes all elite. Could argue the same of Houli and Prestia.
West Coast Eagles - Kennedy, Shuey, Gaff, Nic Nat, McGovern. Possibly Hurn, possibly Yeo.
Western Bulldogs - Bont, Macrae, only two, but two is better than none.
Hawthorn - Buddy, Roughead, Hodge, Mitchell, Rioli, Burgoyne. Possibly Gunston, possibly Gibson, possibly Birchall, possibly Lewis.

Can any of us say with a straight face that there are any elite talents of that level on this list? Heeney perhaps but he is 24, hasn't shown it thus far. Maybe Dawson, maybe Rowbottom, maybe McCartin. Possibly Blakey. None even close to elite yet though. We cannot afford to be complacent with this list thinking it is good enough and does not need elite talent added to it.

[liz]

dare I say it, Stephens has the whiff of Paddy Vezpremi about him. God I hope that's not how it plays out.

Veszpremi could play football, skills wise, but had low stamina when he arrived and never managed to build it up to the level required to play senior AFL even a decade or so ago (and the level required has probably got tougher since then). Stevens seems like the antithesis of Veszpremi in that respect.

(Also, Beatson wasn't in charge of recruitment when Vez was recruited. He was in a consulting role, but I believe it was Maxfield who made the final call to pick Veszpremi.)

[The Big Cat]

I see Serong, a player many pundits had us selecting at pick 5 last year, won the best first year player. There is much positivity around Stephens here, and he's obviously a talented kid - but arguably, Serong might have been our third best midfielder already if we'd selected him. Beetson, who gets so many draft selections right, seems to get way too cute when it comes to the (non-academy) first round picks - dare I say it, Stephens has the whiff of Paddy Vezpremi about him. God I hope that's not how it plays out.

A couple of years down the track Stephens will be elite and Serong just another grab and kick it player. Remember Rhys Palmer and dare I say it, Lewy Taylor.

[Ludwig]

A funny thing happens when a team wins the premiership. Players that most rated as average suddenly are recognised as actually being elite. They just flew under the radar. If we won the premiership this year, Jake Lloyd would be in the AA team.

Can I be so bold to say that when we win the premiership the names of elite Swans' players will be dribbling off the tongues of SEN talk jockeys like saliva from Pavlov's dogs.

Coming from Sydney and finishing 16th, it could take a couple of months of intense listening to footy media pundits before realising that the Swans are even in the AFL competition.

[Ludwig]

Well this is interesting as I have been called a heretic in these circles for suggesting that the answer to our future midfield might not be Florent & Rowbottom and yet the consensus seems to be that we need an elite talent in the midfield. Forgive me but if those lads are going to be as good as everyone thinks they are, why would we need to draft another ?Well, the RWO heretics faction is growing by the day. We may have to burn a few at the stake to set an example for those who don't want to tow the company line.

What else should we expect. Finish bottom 4 two years running and half of RWO need therapy.

[bennyfabulous]

And not in our interest to offer him a deal that would push our pick 3 back to 4. Interesting times!

I'm still not convinced we are in the market for Crouch, but then I was totally blindsided by Buddy.

If its reported in the standard Melbourne "media", then you can safely assume its fairly unlikely. Most are just bottom feeders trying for the grubbiest angle they can find. Sydney is thrown into all trade/free agent "reports" for clicks. And the Buddy deal blindsided every media "expert" so you can safely assume that none of them know anything more than any average punter.

[bennyfabulous]

A couple of years down the track Stephens will be elite and Serong just another grab and kick it player. Remember Rhys Palmer and dare I say it, Lewy Taylor.

Both Serong and Stephens will be guns in the future, i hope we can find a way to convince Serong to come play for the team he barracked for and we can lock Stephens up for a long time. That would be an awesome midfield combo to watch from 2023-2030ish.

[mcs]

My biggest worry, is we are overrating our youngsters.

Got to remember that u/22 team is basically a glorified popularity contest - not a team selected by experts but in part by the general public. Hence players like Rankine, who despite having huge potential, really only had a couple of 'highlight' games and a bunch of bog standard ones, gets in there. Plus a few others.

That plus the fact we don't have too many at the top end of the bracket really tearing the walls down at elite level. Give it a couple of years and might have a few in there however.

[mcs]

I see Serong, a player many pundits had us selecting at pick 5 last year, won the best first year player. There is much positivity around Stephens here, and he's obviously a talented kid - but arguably, Serong might have been our third best midfielder already if we'd selected him. Beetson, who gets so many draft selections right, seems to get way too cute when it comes to the (non-academy) first round picks - dare I say it, Stephens has the whiff of Paddy Vezpremi about him. God I hope that's not how it plays out.

Everyone is absolute entitled to their opinion. But can I please see this post bookmarked for future reference. :rofl

Stephens will be a jet in time - certainly way in front of Vezpremi already. Last few games really started to show what he can do.

A lot of people are willing to make judgments based on so few games about players. Surely as a swans fan, where many times great patience with players has led to great rewards should highlight that first indications are not always a good indicator of long term outcomes with players.

[Auntie.Gerald]

For me there are several areas that can make a huge difference either way to our trajectory next 3 years

Id like to put coaching on the table as one area to add to greater success........my suggestion is starting the year 2022:

We have come 15th and 15th the last two seasons. Yes we have tended to play a one on one style of footy this year which makes it very difficult for a young team to win. Yes this style of accountability and development generally leads to greater experience and ability down the line, especially when key players come back into our team like Bud, Heeney, Hewett, Rampe.

Yet I think a coach swap for season 2022 ie Geelongs Chris Scott for John Longmire would be an amazing move by the Swans. Nothing to loose and only to gain with a coach like Scott and his success and acumen.

They have both coached almost identical amount of games in AFL. Scott 44yrs of age and Longmire 49yrs of age

Scott has lead Geelong to 9 finals appearances in 10 seasons. 160 wins from 232 games = 69% win rate

Scotts win-rate of 69 per cent is the best of any coach to ever lead a club in 100-plus games plus he was the equal youngest coach to win a GF in his first year coaching.

Johnny Longmire 144 wins from 235 games = 61%

Geelongs ability to recruit on the run, blood 10 new debutants in 2012 and similar in other seasons has been remarkable when it comes to making finals footy almost every year.

Both longmire and scott are under contract until 2022/23.

Both clubs could benefit, both clubs are going through a rebuild in some ways again. The Cats a fair few debutants last year and us a lot this year last year. Both clubs are about to loose super star players next year, year after etc so will have similar list challenges.

[Melbourne_Blood]

For me there are several areas that can make a huge difference either way to our trajectory next 3 years

Id like to put coaching on the table as one area to add to greater success........my suggestion is starting the year 2022:

We have come 15th and 15th the last two seasons. Yes we have tended to play a one on one style of footy this year which makes it very difficult for a young team to win. Yes this style of accountability and development generally leads to greater experience and ability down the line, especially when key players come back into our team like Bud, Heeney, Hewett, Rampe.

Yet I think a coach swap for season 2022 ie Geelongs Chris Scott for John Longmire would be an amazing move by the Swans. Nothing to loose and only to gain with a coach like Scott and his success and acumen.

They have both coached almost identical amount of games in AFL. Scott 44yrs of age and Longmire 49yrs of age

Scott has lead Geelong to 9 finals appearances in 10 seasons. 160 wins from 232 games = 69% win rate

Scotts win-rate of 69 per cent is the best of any coach to ever lead a club in 100-plus games plus he was the equal youngest coach to win a GF in his first year coaching.

Johnny Longmire 144 wins from 235 games = 61%

Geelongs ability to recruit on the run, blood 10 new debutants in 2012 and similar in other seasons has been remarkable when it comes to making finals footy almost every year.

Both longmire and scott are under contract until 2022/23.

Both clubs could benefit, both clubs are going through a rebuild in some ways again. The Cats a fair few debutants last year and us a lot this year last year. Both clubs are about to loose super star players next year, year after etc so will have similar list challenges.

Maybe a great idea for a reality TV show ‘ coachSWAP! ‘ but I’m not sure this would ever happen in reality. If coaches are out of favour they usually get sacked, if they aren’t they stay or they are poached. I doubt we’ll ever see a straight ‘swap’ happen in footy.

I also don’t necessarily think Scott would be an improvement on Horse. His win % overall is only marginally better ( they also hold one of the biggest home ground advantages at Kardinia - whatever it’s called these days - due to its unusual playing dimensions. But take a look at their finals record. Since that flag in 2011 they’ve been very poor in finals. Haven’t progressed past a prelim.


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[The Runner]

I can't see how Crouch would be a pick 3 compo. Martin maybe, but Crouch is a round 2.

It's relative to the contract he gets offered, not his perceived worth.

[Blood Fever]

I see Serong, a player many pundits had us selecting at pick 5 last year, won the best first year player. There is much positivity around Stephens here, and he's obviously a talented kid - but arguably, Serong might have been our third best midfielder already if we'd selected him. Beetson, who gets so many draft selections right, seems to get way too cute when it comes to the (non-academy) first round picks - dare I say it, Stephens has the whiff of Paddy Vezpremi about him. God I hope that's not how it plays out.

Stephens was excellent v Cats and will be at least the equal of Serong when he gets stronger. He was selected because of our need for speed and elite kicking. McInerney the same. Serong is very good but didn't fit our needs as well. Simple really. Vezpremi comparison bewilders me.

[Ludwig]

An article on the AFL website about small forwards in demand has Ben Ronke as someone who could be one of those. I've been against delisting Ronke, mainly because I think he's too good to be delisted, but I think trading Ronke would be a good move. With Papley staying, we are loaded up with small forwards: Taylor, Gray, Foot. I don't have any of these in our best 22.

A third round pick would seem fair to me.

[dejavoodoo44]

An article on the AFL website about small forwards in demand has Ben Ronke as someone who could be one of those. I've been against delisting Ronke, mainly because I think he's too good to be delisted, but I think trading Ronke would be a good move. With Papley staying, we are loaded up with small forwards: Taylor, Graya, Foot. I don't have any of these in our best 22.

A third round pick would seem fair to me.
I would leap at a third round pick. I wonder if Hawthorn may have a slightly inflated view of his worth, as his 7 goal game was against them? Their third rounder might be really helpful, when we attempt to minimize how much we go into deficit next year.

There's also Wicks as a small forward, who sticks tackles more than Ronke, and Gulden, who was played

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...as a small forward. Although I prefer him as a midfielder, they might want to ease him into the squad.

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I would leap at a third round pick. I wonder if Hawthorn may have a slightly inflated view of his worth, as his 7 goal game was against them? Their third rounder might be really helpful, when we attempt to minimize how much we go into deficit next year.

There's also Wicks as a small forward, who sticks tackles more than Ronke, and Gulden, who was played

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...as a small forward. Although I prefer him as a midfielder, they might want to ease him into the squad.
Of course, 'helpful' and 'Hawthorn' never really go together in my mind.

[Thunder Shaker]

Everyone is absolute entitled to their opinion. But can I please see this post bookmarked for future reference. :rofl

Stephens will be a jet in time - certainly way in front of Vezpremi already. Last few games really started to show what he can do.

A lot of people are willing to make judgments based on so few games about players. Surely as a swans fan, where many times great patience with players has led to great rewards should highlight that first indications are not always a good indicator of long term outcomes with players.
Recruiters are much better at their job than a club's fans. That's why they are working as recruiters and the club's fans are not.

Recruiters are not always going to get it right, but they would have a better success rate at recruiting than individual club fans would.

[stevoswan]

I see Serong, a player many pundits had us selecting at pick 5 last year, won the best first year player. There is much positivity around Stephens here, and he's obviously a talented kid - but arguably, Serong might have been our third best midfielder already if we'd selected him. Beetson, who gets so many draft selections right, seems to get way too cute when it comes to the (non-academy) first round picks - dare I say it, Stephens has the whiff of Paddy Vezpremi about him. God I hope that's not how it plays out.

What a strange thing to say......did Vezpremi even get a game? Stephens has already shown that he is way above Vezpremi.

On Serong, we should get in his ear in the near future. If he had barracked for Hawthorn, the Vic journo's would already be writing things like "when the Hawks lure Serong back to Victoria to bolster their midfield, ect". Although with Freo seemingly on the rise......luring him to NSW may be a challenge. We need to thrash them next year!:wink:

[707]

Correct, how much has anyone on here actually seen of potential draftees every year? We all just go on the thumbnail highlights packages and write ups to form an opinion.

Ever noticed how when you read a potential "Top 20" Phantom draft that every player seems so desirable? Then they get in the system, a couple become stars (not necessarily the suggested top picks) a few are duds, and the rest are very good to just role players.

That's where the recruiters who watch heaps of games live, watch hundreds more games on video and hone down to what players can do, what will translate to AFL senior level, what faults are coachable out and what faults are terminal.

In KB & Dalrymple we trust. Hopefully three elite kickers this draft :-)

[stevoswan]

For me there are several areas that can make a huge difference either way to our trajectory next 3 years

Id like to put coaching on the table as one area to add to greater success........my suggestion is starting the year 2022:

We have come 15th and 15th the last two seasons. Yes we have tended to play a one on one style of footy this year which makes it very difficult for a young team to win. Yes this style of accountability and development generally leads to greater experience and ability down the line, especially when key players come back into our team like Bud, Heeney, Hewett, Rampe.

Yet I think a coach swap for season 2022 ie Geelongs Chris Scott for John Longmire would be an amazing move by the Swans. Nothing to loose and only to gain with a coach like Scott and his success and acumen.

They have both coached almost identical amount of games in AFL. Scott 44yrs of age and Longmire 49yrs of age

Scott has lead Geelong to 9 finals appearances in 10 seasons. 160 wins from 232 games = 69% win rate

Scotts win-rate of 69 per cent is the best of any coach to ever lead a club in 100-plus games plus he was the equal youngest coach to win a GF in his first year coaching.

Johnny Longmire 144 wins from 235 games = 61%

Geelongs ability to recruit on the run, blood 10 new debutants in 2012 and similar in other seasons has been remarkable when it comes to making finals footy almost every year.

Both longmire and scott are under contract until 2022/23.

Both clubs could benefit, both clubs are going through a rebuild in some ways again. The Cats a fair few debutants last year and us a lot this year last year. Both clubs are about to loose super star players next year, year after etc so will have similar list challenges.

Is this an early April 1st post?:hmmmm2: :tongue:

[Auntie.Gerald]

having or showing an attitude of patronising superiority?

[Markwebbos]

What a strange thing to say......did Vezpremi even get a game? Stephens has already shown that he is way above Vezpremi.

On Serong, we should get in his ear in the near future. If he had barracked for Hawthorn, the Vic journo's would already be writing things like "when the Hawks lure Serong back to Victoria to bolster their midfield, ect". Although with Freo seemingly on the rise......luring him to NSW may be a challenge. We need to thrash them next year!:wink:

Maybe he can ask to “go home” to Sydney in the style of Zac Williams?

[SwanSand]

Just counted how many first and second round drafted players are there on other teams. Of Course not drafted by the team they are playing currently at.
Richmond have 20 first and second round players and West Coast 24. Again not all of these players are regular in the team. Richmond have 3 not playing in the main team yet on a regular basis and West Coast have nearly 8.
Besides these Richmond have atleast 6-8 players outside these 20 who are regular players in the team. West Coast have 6 - 8 players outside these in the team on a regular basis (either 3rd round picks or Rookies etc).

On the other hand, We have 16 first and second round players on our list but unfortunately our players fall into the three categories -
Too old and not on park - Buddy Franklin
Too Young - Dylan Stephens and Will Gould
Or Recycled from other teams and not necessarily great players - Ryan Clarke, Lewis Taylor, Jackson Thurlow.

So if we go by just draft or great players in their age group - We need to accumulate players over next 3 - 4 years to be at the level of Richmond or West Coast Eagles. Many will come through our Draft and then specific targeting.

Eg - Maybe if Geelong is interested in Crouch and getting him, we could target Charlie Constable or maybe even Cooper Stephens (drafted last year)

[Markwebbos]

JD about to do a tour of Brisbane's training facilities according to Sam Edmund

Joe Daniher poised to tour training facilities of opposition club "very soon" (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/09/23/joe-daniher-poised-to-tour-training-facilities-of-opposition-club-very-soon/)

[Captain]

I would be keen for us to go after Tom Greene at the Giants.

[Ludwig]

Just counted how many first and second round drafted players are there on other teams. Of Course not drafted by the team they are playing currently at.
Richmond have 20 first and second round players and West Coast 24. Again not all of these players are regular in the team. Richmond have 3 not playing in the main team yet on a regular basis and West Coast have nearly 8.
Besides these Richmond have atleast 6-8 players outside these 20 who are regular players in the team. West Coast have 6 - 8 players outside these in the team on a regular basis (either 3rd round picks or Rookies etc).

On the other hand, We have 16 first and second round players on our list but unfortunately our players fall into the three categories -
Too old and not on park - Buddy Franklin
Too Young - Dylan Stephens and Will Gould
Or Recycled from other teams and not necessarily great players - Ryan Clarke, Lewis Taylor, Jackson Thurlow.

So if we go by just draft or great players in their age group - We need to accumulate players over next 3 - 4 years to be at the level of Richmond or West Coast Eagles. Many will come through our Draft and then specific targeting.

Eg - Maybe if Geelong is interested in Crouch and getting him, we could target Charlie Constable or maybe even Cooper Stephens (drafted last year)North Melbourne just delisted 3 first round picks and 2 second rounders. Maybe we should swoop down and sign them up to boost our high draft pick numbers. We can make space by delisting some of our rookie picks, like Lloyd, Rampe, Cunningham, Fox, Wicks and Papley. It might just be what's needed to win a premiership next year. :tongue:

[Ludwig]

I would be keen for us to go after Tom Greene at the Giants.If we want a gun inside midfielder, we can probably get Will Phillips in the draft with pick 3. Some say he's as good as Rowell. He has the advantage on Greene by being very quick and can burst away from the contest with his acceleration.

Personally, I would prefer a key forward, but a future with Phillips and Rowbottom in the midfield would be very powerful.

In this highlight video

https://www.afl.com.au/video/494490/tough-midfielder-phillips-could-be-top-10-pick?videoId=494490&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1598277600001

(https://www.afl.com.au/video/494490/tough-midfielder-phillips-could-be-top-10-pick?videoId=494490&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1598277600001)there is a nice passage of play from the 50 second mark that starts with Braeden Campbell kicking to Phillips who kicks to a player in the goal square that looks like Caleb Serong.

[Ralph Dawg]

I would be keen for us to go after Tom Greene at the Giants.
Would you do it for our pick 3?

[barry]

I would be keen for us to go after Tom Greene at the Giants.

Dont you sign a two year deal when you get drafted, so he wont be available until end of 2021, and considering the trouble the Giants went to to get him (basically pick 6 and pick 8), I'd be suprised if they let him go easily.

[Captain]

Would you do it for our pick 3?

That's a great question! I would probably lean towards yes (but only just).

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Dont you sign a two year deal when you get drafted, so he wont be available until end of 2021, and considering the trouble the Giants went to to get him (basically pick 6 and pick 8), I'd be suprised if they let him go easily.

Yes he is contracted, but seems like no one cares about contracts anymore if the right deal can be done.

[i'm-uninformed2]

I wouldn't give up pick 3 for him, but as an aside ...

I'm 6'4". I stood next to him and his family in an airport checking counter at Canberra on draft morning last year, when he was clearly making his way north to the event.

He is HUGE. Not just in height, but a big lump of a lad. He'd be freaking intimidating to slide in next to in the centre square, unless you were Cripps or the Bont or Joey.

[neilfws]

Steve Johnson is leaving.

Johnson to depart (https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/818003/johnson-to-depart)

[stellation]

Steve Johnson is leaving.

Johnson to depart (https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/818003/johnson-to-depart)

Heading back to GWS.

[Markwebbos]

Steve Johnson is leaving.

Johnson to depart (https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/818003/johnson-to-depart)

His choice or ours?

[neilfws]

Heading back to GWS.

Apparently so!

Stevie J Returns to GIANTS (https://www.gwsgiants.com.au/news/818036/stevie-j-returns-to-giants)


His choice or ours?

Swans news mentions "exploring other opportunities", sounds like he was approached by GWS to fill the gap left by their departing assistants.

[waswan]

Probably wasnt guaranteed another 3yrs with us

[AnnieH]

Steve Johnson is leaving.

Johnson to depart (https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/818003/johnson-to-depart)

Yay.
He can take his toxicity back to GW$. Whatever a "line" coach is, I'm sure he'll stuff that up too.
Best behinds coach we ever had.
Leaves shoes for Buddy to fill.

[Melbourne_Blood]

Yay.
He can take his toxicity back to GW$. Whatever a "line" coach is, I'm sure he'll stuff that up too.
Best behinds coach we ever had.
Leaves shoes for Buddy to fill.

Toxicity? From all I’ve seen he seemed to be an absolute favourite of many of the young guys.


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[Markwebbos]

Yay.
He can take his toxicity back to GW$. Whatever a "line" coach is, I'm sure he'll stuff that up too.
Best behinds coach we ever had.
Leaves shoes for Buddy to fill.

I don't understand the animosity toward Stevie J.

He coached one of the youngest forward lines and we were still one of the most efficient sides converting inside 50s into scores. I'm sorry to see him go.

[MattW]

Jesse Hogan, anyone?

AFL trade news, rumours, whispers 2020: Joe Daniher Brisbane, Geelong, Shaun Higgins, Jesse Hogan contract | FOX SPORTS (https://coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/afl/afl-trade-news-rumours-whispers-2020-joe-daniher-geelong-shaun-higgins-jesse-hogan-contract/news-story/269c758ee4c7954399856e43b282168b?__twitter_impress ion=true)

I really like him when he's fit: excellent lead-up target. Only 25. Trade value has dropped. One year to go on his contract.

"Jesse Hogan Career Stats" https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-fremantle-dockers--jesse-hogan

I guess, though, the guiding principle this year is not to eat into our draft hand unless spending on a gun (which he's not at this point).

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Toxicity? From all I’ve seen he seemed to be an absolute favourite of many of the young guys.


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Yes, I suspect he's somewhat responsible for Papley’s development.

[Mark26]

With Stevie J out the door, I wonder if we'll get Tadhg back?

[TheBloods]

Toxicity? From all I’ve seen he seemed to be an absolute favourite of many of the young guys.


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A big head who was a favourite among the big headed cohort of our playing group is not what I would consider to be a widespread appraisal of his tenure.

[Melbourne_Blood]

A big head who was a favourite among the big headed cohort of our playing group is not what I would consider to be a widespread appraisal of his tenure.

My comment was related to the ‘toxicity’ mentioned. In any case, I think the midfield coach/ coaches have a bit more to answer for than the forwards coach.


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[barracuda]

Toxicity? From all I’ve seen he seemed to be an absolute favourite of many of the young guys.


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I can absolutely assure that was not the case

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I don't understand the animosity toward Stevie J.

He coached one of the youngest forward lines and we were still one of the most efficient sides converting inside 50s into scores. I'm sorry to see him go.

He is just a really bad coach. No structures, no instruction. Quite petty and out of his depth.

[Melbourne_Blood]

I can absolutely assure that was not the case

Well you would know better than me, just commenting on my take from the swans social media etc. what was the issue with Stevie from your source ?


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[TheBloods]

My comment was related to the ‘toxicity’ mentioned. In any case, I think the midfield coach/ coaches have a bit more to answer for than the forwards coach.


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Yes and your personality only being suited to a certain type of player can lead to toxicity. If you ask Papley, Hayward, Blakey, McInerney their thoughts on Stevie J, of course they would love him. Like Stevie J, they have a bit of how-ya-goin' about them on and off the field. I know for a fact there are players on our list who have not warmed to Stevie J's character. And before you suggest that it is natural for people not to gravitate to certain others, while that is true, it is a coaches job to make himself accessible to every player under him, and adjust his demeanour to every player. That is what a leader does. It is why John Longmire is regarded as one of the best people persons in football. As I understand it Stevie J does not have this quality.

[KTigers]

I don't understand the animosity toward Stevie J.

He coached one of the youngest forward lines and we were still one of the most efficient sides converting inside 50s into scores. I'm sorry to see him go.

Me neither. The club must have rated him as he was kept on while a number of other coaches were let go. Maybe he just
got a better offer from GWS. He has a big family to feed.

[barracuda]

Me neither. The club must have rated him as he was kept on while a number of other coaches were let go. Maybe he just
got a better offer from GWS. He has a big family to feed.

I think he was kept as he had a contract.

[Markwebbos]

I can absolutely assure that was not the case

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He is just a really bad coach. No structures, no instruction. Quite petty and out of his depth.

Fair enough Barracuda. I reckon you have inside information that I don't (although you may wish to explain to Wolftone on the other thread). Annie do you have inside information too?

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Jesse Hogan, anyone?

AFL trade news, rumours, whispers 2020: Joe Daniher Brisbane, Geelong, Shaun Higgins, Jesse Hogan contract | FOX SPORTS (https://coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/afl/afl-trade-news-rumours-whispers-2020-joe-daniher-geelong-shaun-higgins-jesse-hogan-contract/news-story/269c758ee4c7954399856e43b282168b?__twitter_impress ion=true)

I really like him when he's fit: excellent lead-up target. Only 25. Trade value has dropped. One year to go on his contract.

"Jesse Hogan Career Stats" https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-fremantle-dockers--jesse-hogan

I guess, though, the guiding principle this year is not to eat into our draft hand unless spending on a gun (which he's not at this point).

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Yes, I suspect he's somewhat responsible for Papley’s development.

I thought Hogan was worth a crack earlier in the year, but I think he's re-established his place in the last few weeks, and will now be much harder to prise out.
Think he'd be a great pickup.

[Melbourne_Blood]

Ben brown officially on the market. Guy kicked 60 + goals three years in a row, he’s no mug. North would probably want a first rounder though


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[Nico]

Correct, how much has anyone on here actually seen of potential draftees every year? We all just go on the thumbnail highlights packages and write ups to form an opinion.

Ever noticed how when you read a potential "Top 20" Phantom draft that every player seems so desirable? Then they get in the system, a couple become stars (not necessarily the suggested top picks) a few are duds, and the rest are very good to just role players.

That's where the recruiters who watch heaps of games live, watch hundreds more games on video and hone down to what players can do, what will translate to AFL senior level, what faults are coachable out and what faults are terminal.

In KB & Dalrymple we trust. Hopefully three elite kickers this draft :-)

Apart from this year they go to games to see them in the flesh. We have scouts in all states all working to the same blue print.

[MattW]

Ben brown officially on the market. Guy kicked 60 + goals three years in a row, he’s no mug. North would probably want a first rounder though


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Tell 'em they're dreamin'.

[Melbourne_Blood]

Tell 'em they're dreamin'.

It’s interesting. JD had one 60+ goal year, didn’t play hardly any footy the following 2 seasons and was still worth 2 first rounders.

I know BB doesn’t have the X factor of a JD but on the metric of goal kicking he’s far superior based on both of their best 3 seasons ( and career over all ).

They will probably get a first round pick for him, just not from us.


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[Nico]

I think he was kept as he had a contract.

Actually, I was surprised we got him in the first place. Leopards don't change their spots as the saying goes.

[MattW]

It’s interesting. JD had one 60+ goal year, didn’t play hardly any footy the following 2 seasons and was still worth 2 first rounders.

I know BB doesn’t have the X factor of a JD but on the metric of goal kicking he’s far superior based on both of their best 3 seasons ( and career over all ).

They will probably get a first round pick for him, just not from us.


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Essendon imposed a 'favourite son' tax, whereas North are holding a fire sale.

I guess the question is: why did Brown slump so much this year?

That goalscoring record is compelling. But for me, I just don't see that kind of player fitting in at the Swans - I think we want our forwards to be more versatile in how they win the ball and kick goals.

[Melbourne_Blood]

Essendon imposed a 'favourite son' tax, whereas North are holding a fire sale.

I guess the question is: why did Brown slump so much this year?

That goalscoring record is compelling. But for me, I just don't see that kind of player fitting in at the Swans - I think we want our forwards to be more versatile in how they win the ball and kick goals.

I agree to an extent. If we were in a premiership window though, and we thought we could get 60 goals out of him, I wouldn’t care how he kicks them or what he does when the ball hits the ground. In form he’s pretty hard to stop.


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[Captain]

I hope we get one of Danher or Brown.

[Nico]

I hope we get one of Danher or Brown.

I doubt we will give up Pick 3 for any player. I think we will continue with youth to keep the rebuild going. Besides I can't see how we can afford the the amounts they would want.

- - - Updated - - -


Ben brown officially on the market. Guy kicked 60 + goals three years in a row, he’s no mug. North would probably want a first rounder though


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Maybe he cracked them because Shaw wanted him to play as a key defender. I think he would go alright.

[Markwebbos]

Brown is a one trick pony, and has never kicked goals against us because we know how to counter his one trick.

[Aprilbr]

Ben Brown is not a good idea for us unless we can get him for a low draft pick. Let's just be patient. Bring in the 2 Academcy boys and best available at Pick 3/4. This is the best option given our list profile at present. Interestingly, Ross Lyon just said on Footy Classfied that we are closer to our next flag than Carlton!

We are still building the foundation of our next golden era. Buying in mature talent from elsewhere should wait for at least one more year.

[goswannies]

Brown is a one trick pony, and has never kicked goals against us because we know how to counter his one trick.
Well that’s ok, because he’d be playing with us, not against us. The bigger problem is on the short dimensions of the SCG Ben Brown’s set shot run up would start somewhere between full back and center half back!

[dejavoodoo44]

A recent Titus O'Reilly tweet.

"Feel bad for Ben Brown. Could be forced to end up at one of the sixteen teams better than North Melbourne."

Only sixteen, Titus?

[dejavoodoo44]

Well that’s ok, because he’d be playing with us, not against us. The bigger problem is on the short dimensions of the SCG Ben Brown’s set shot run up would start somewhere between full back and center half back!

Yes, and if he played for us, umpires like Stevic, would start telling him to play on, just as he got to the start of his run up.

[Aprilbr]

I just read online that Zac Williams is going to Carlton on $900k p.a. for 5 years. Crazy money! They also mentioned that our Papps knocked back $800k p.a. from them. Wow!

[Markwebbos]

I just read online that Zac Williams is going to Carlton on $900k p.a. for 5 years. Crazy money! They also mentioned that our Papps knocked back $800k p.a. from them. Wow!

Robbo described Carlton’s manoeuvre as a “panic buy” which puts him in the same fiscal ballpark as: Fyfe, Buddy, Danger, Cripps, Dusty etc.

At least Williams will be closer to his sister!

- - - Updated - - -


I just read online that Zac Williams is going to Carlton on $900k p.a. for 5 years. Crazy money! They also mentioned that our Papps knocked back $800k p.a. from them. Wow!

They are allegedly paying (the Wrong) McGovern $750k a year

[Legs Akimbo]

Robbo described Carlton’s manoeuvre as a “panic buy” which puts him in the same fiscal ballpark as: Fyfe, Buddy, Danger, Cripps, Dusty etc.

At least Williams will be closer to his sister!

- - - Updated - - -



They are allegedly paying (the Wrong) McGovern $750k a year

If true, Carlton are betting the farm on immediate flag but detrimentally to their future. They must be frustrated they can't make the 8 let alone progress through finals. That's a lot of cap on some not so great players.

[Auntie.Gerald]

SYDNEY SWANS

Lewis Taylor - Brought in from Brisbane for pick 48 and would’ve provided handy backup if Tom Papley went down or left the club. Neither have happened and as such has been starved for opportunity. Nine games this season, but the only real notable one was Round 2’s loss to Essendon where he booted three goals and looked dangerous. Injured in Round 17 and didn’t return.

GRADE: C

AFL trades 2020: every trade ranked, best trades, worst trades, recruits, contract, moves | Fox Sports (https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-trades-2020-every-trade-ranked-best-trades-worst-trades-recruits-contract-moves/news-story/23be1f381cd47a15dff1653c2ec0591a)

[Melbourne_Blood]

Brown is a one trick pony, and has never kicked goals against us because we know how to counter his one trick.

I’m not arguing for us to get him, just that he probably deserves a bit more credit.

Yes he has his limitations, but he’s averaged around 3 goals a game for the 3 seasons prior to this one, it’s a pretty decent trick. Consistent multiple goal scorers are the rarest commodity in our game.


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[Melbourne_Blood]

Say we were interested though ( I think he’s maybe slightly too old for our list profile) what about this - our futures first round pick for norths future second and Brown ? Maybe we throw in Ronke too, they need a small forward. Is that an acceptable deal for North I wonder?


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[cruiser]

Offer North Reid and Ronke plus 3rd round pic for Brown?

[KTigers]

I would take Brown over Daniher. At least Brown seems to want to play football. And on North Melbourne; do they have any
players left? perhaps they are folding. I mean the Jobkeeper payment is going down next week from $750 a week to $600.
Might be a good time to chuck it in.

[Markwebbos]

Norf have put themselves in a really weak negotiating position with Brown and Polec.

I think they’ll take whatever they can get as no one expects either to be there next year.

Shaw May have his eye on a Swans player(s), but probably one we want to keep.

I’d rather give up fringe players than high draft picks, obvs, but I don’t think we’d be interested.

[waswan]

Interestingly, Ross Lyon just said on Footy Classfied that we are closer to our next flag than Carlton!
.

and Ross Lyon knows about being close to a flag

I hope someone picks a key position before us, just hope wr grab an A grade Mid.

Look at Freo a few years back with Cerra and Bradshaw, you cant deny top end talent

[Captain]

Ross Lyon also said we should be into Cameron.

I was actually thinking that the other day as well.

We should be throwing the kitchen sink at him!

[KTigers]

Ross Lyon also said we should be into Cameron.

I was actually thinking that the other day as well.

We should be throwing the kitchen sink at him!

I think our kitchen sink is still over at Buddy's house for the next couple years.

[stellation]

Is there enough room on the SCG for Ben Brown to take his run up?

[Ludwig]

Well that’s ok, because he’d be playing with us, not against us. The bigger problem is on the short dimensions of the SCG Ben Brown’s set shot run up would start somewhere between full back and center half back!More like between the Parking Lot and the Opera House.

[caj23]

Ben brown officially on the market. Guy kicked 60 + goals three years in a row, he’s no mug. North would probably want a first rounder though


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No thanks, he's the slowest guy in the AFL and is a liability if he doesn't take the mark. He's probably worth 3 goals to the opposition going the other way which negates anything he contributes.

[707]

Well that’s ok, because he’d be playing with us, not against us. The bigger problem is on the short dimensions of the SCG Ben Brown’s set shot run up would start somewhere between full back and center half back!

I feel nauseous whenever he giraffe gallops in for 100 metres to kick at the sticks. I'd stop watching if he played for us, he's sickeningly comical.

Pick 3, best available, Campbell, Gulden, fairly simple injection of top end talent for 2021 to add to new recruits, Buddy, Rampe and Heeney

- - - Updated - - -


I just read online that Zac Williams is going to Carlton on $900k p.a. for 5 years. Crazy money! They also mentioned that our Papps knocked back $800k p.a. from them. Wow!

That gets added to the $1mill man Jack Martin. Is Carlton once again not subject to a Salary Cap, like in the early 2000's :-)

[Markwebbos]

That gets added to the $1mill man Jack Martin. Is Carlton once again not subject to a Salary Cap, like in the early 2000's :-)

Think that was a heavily front-loaded contract due to Carlton having the $ and JM wanting to put a price on his head no other club could match in the PSD. He won't be on that sort of money next year.

[Markwebbos]

There's an interesting Roar article suggesting that Collingwood have totally messed up by signing Brodie Grundy up to an epic 7 year megadeal. All you ruck-skeptics will agree with the sentiment.
The writer suggests they should try and trick GW$ into swapping Grundy for Cameron.

Grundy is a seven-year albatross hanging around Collingwood’s neck (https://www.theroar.com.au/2020/09/23/grundy-is-a-seven-year-albatross-hanging-around-collingwoods-neck/)

[aardvark]

A forward line with a fit Buddy, Joe and Jeremy could be fun!:wink:

[stellation]

Think that was a heavily front-loaded contract due to Carlton having the $ and JM wanting to put a price on his head no other club could match in the PSD. He won't be on that sort of money next year.

A decision which has presumably backfired a tad for him this year in the end.

[Ludwig]

I've been reviewing a few tapes on this year's draft. Not many. Just a few. But I can say a few things with some confidence:

We will have to put up with the Bulldogs being a top team for the next decade. Ugle-Hagan could be the next Buddy. Looks terrific. Great NGA steal.
Let's not worry about our midfield. Campbell and Gulden are both guns. They are both so impressive with all aspects of their game. Add Stephens, McInerney, Blakey and Rowbottom and we've got a 6 gun midfielders for a long, long time, if we can keep them all. Blakey's the oldest at 20. It will be like a massive wave, getting bigger every year.

[Captain]

I think our kitchen sink is still over at Buddy's house for the next couple years.

:rofl

Well we will need to throw whatever is left!

- - - Updated - - -


There's an interesting Roar article suggesting that Collingwood have totally messed up by signing Brodie Grundy up to an epic 7 year megadeal. All you ruck-skeptics will agree with the sentiment.
The writer suggests they should try and trick GW$ into swapping Grundy for Cameron.

Grundy is a seven-year albatross hanging around Collingwood’s neck (https://www.theroar.com.au/2020/09/23/grundy-is-a-seven-year-albatross-hanging-around-collingwoods-neck/)

Reckon this is pretty harsh. Grundy is a gun.

[Blood Relative]

Well we will need to throw whatever is left


The laundry trough??

[gloveski]

Think that was a heavily front-loaded contract due to Carlton having the $ and JM wanting to put a price on his head no other club could match in the PSD. He won't be on that sort of money next year.

Spot on the first year was heavily loaded , smart move really by the blues .


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[gloveski]

:rofl

Well we will need to throw whatever is left!

- - - Updated - - -



Reckon this is pretty harsh. Grundy is a gun.

Would much prefer Grundy than Cameron


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[Captain]

Would much prefer Grundy than Cameron


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Grundy isn't out of contact and just signed a 7 year deal. He is going nowhere.

[gloveski]

Grundy isn't out of contact and just signed a 7 year deal. He is going nowhere.

More commenting on the article that Collingwood should try and swap With GWS for Cameron


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[RogueSwan]

... Reckon this is pretty harsh. Grundy is a gun.
Yep, one ordinary, not terrible, year out of three isn't too bad.

[barry]

A forward line with a fit Buddy, Joe and Jeremy could be fun!:wink:

I bit top heavy, and you'd need to put 3 other highly defensive forwards to stop the run out. Maybe a forward line like:

F: Joe, Jeremy, Lloyd
HF: Cunningham, Buddy, Rampe


might work?

;)

[Ralph Dawg]

With Buddy taking up so much cap space for the next 2 years, I doubt you will see us pull a rabbit out of the hat and trade in a Cameron or Grundy. The only way it could happen is for an elite recruit to take unders for a couple of years then overs once Buddy retires.

More likely is we go to the draft, pick up 3 excellent prospects and continue with our steady rebuild.

[Captain]

More commenting on the article that Collingwood should try and swap With GWS for Cameron


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Ah gotcha. Yeah I would keep Grundy too.

[KTigers]

I bit top heavy, and you'd need to put 3 other highly defensive forwards to stop the run out. Maybe a forward line like:

F: Joe, Jeremy, Lloyd
HF: Cunningham, Buddy, Rampe


might work?

;)

... as long as the rest of the team is on the minimum wage, and prepared to stick around the SCG after games to work
as cleaners or as valets to collect Joe, Jeremys & Buddy's luxury rides for them after training to try and make ends meet.

[stevoswan]

There's an interesting Roar article suggesting that Collingwood have totally messed up by signing Brodie Grundy up to an epic 7 year megadeal. All you ruck-skeptics will agree with the sentiment.
The writer suggests they should try and trick GW$ into swapping Grundy for Cameron.

Grundy is a seven-year albatross hanging around Collingwood’s neck (https://www.theroar.com.au/2020/09/23/grundy-is-a-seven-year-albatross-hanging-around-collingwoods-neck/)

Everyone who thinks we need a gun ruckman to succeed should read that article......stuff it, I'll just quote the relevant section:

"Ruckmen in the modern game do not win you premierships. Ruckmen are the most overrated position in the game with the least influence on the outcome.

There is a litany of examples over the past decade of premiership-winning ruckmen being a small cog in the team’s overall success. Names like Ivan Soldo, Toby Nankervis, Scott Lycett, Nathan Vardy, Jordan Roughead and Ben McEvoy are all solid citizens but absolutely nothing more. They would all be in their premiership team’s bottom six.

There is no better example than Grundy himself in the 2019 preliminary final against GWS, which the Magpies lost. It was a game where Grundy dominated his position.

Grundy’s numbers in that game were extraordinary. He won 73 hit-outs and ten clearances. He had 25 disposals and the Magpies dominated the clearances 54 to 35.

If ruckmen were so influential, Collingwood should have won by ten goals. Alas, all the tap outs in the world couldn’t be converted into genuine match dominance."


We just need a strong midfield, which we are developing already and will strengthen at this years draft (along with, hopefully, a KPF through trading....just not Daniher or Brown! I'd rather Hogan, even with the risks involved).

[stevoswan]

Bennell set to be delisted by the Dees.....are we over him? I guess his Covid breach is a red flag to ongoing issues.....outside of all his 'talent'.

[barry]

Everyone who thinks we need a gun ruckman to succeed should read that article......stuff it, I'll just quote the relevant section:

"Ruckmen in the modern game do not win you premierships. Ruckmen are the most overrated position in the game with the least influence on the outcome.

There is a litany of examples over the past decade of premiership-winning ruckmen being a small cog in the team’s overall success. Names like Ivan Soldo, Toby Nankervis, Scott Lycett, Nathan Vardy, Jordan Roughead and Ben McEvoy are all solid citizens but absolutely nothing more. They would all be in their premiership team’s bottom six.

There is no better example than Grundy himself in the 2019 preliminary final against GWS, which the Magpies lost. It was a game where Grundy dominated his position.

Grundy’s numbers in that game were extraordinary. He won 73 hit-outs and ten clearances. He had 25 disposals and the Magpies dominated the clearances 54 to 35.

If ruckmen were so influential, Collingwood should have won by ten goals. Alas, all the tap outs in the world couldn’t be converted into genuine match dominance."


We just need a strong midfield, which we are developing already and will strengthen at this years draft (along with, hopefully, a KPF through trading....just not Daniher or Brown! I'd rather Hogan, even with the risks involved).

I agree mostly with that. Putting lots of cap dollars into Grundy or Nic Nat is not efficient.

I actually think Scott Lycett is about the perfect ruckman. He's very good, fairly cheap. We need to find that type again. Sinclair is 1000 miles away from Lycett.
If Collingwood bomb out, we should go after Mason Cox as a ruckman. He'd be an excellent around the ground marking target.

[longmile]

It is public now that we have expressed interest in Preust. As well as GW$ allegedly.

Id prefer Nankervis to come back but happy with with either.

[Bloods05]

It is public now that we have expressed interest in Preust. As well as GW$ allegedly.

Id prefer Nankervis to come back but happy with with either.

It's nice to think that we're a much more attractive destination than GWS at the moment.

[Markwebbos]

It's nice to think that we're a much more attractive destination than GWS at the moment.

Are we though? Depends what motivates Preuss, given he chose to give up being Goldy's understudy to do the same with Max Gawn.

Didn't realise Greg Stafford is the Dees ruck coach.

A few others mentioned in the AFL article including Nankervis, Tom Hickey, Sam Hayes, Max Lynch and Shaun McKernan

Third time lucky? Giants, Swans among clubs keen on big Demon Preuss (https://www.afl.com.au/news/510542/third-time-lucky-giants-swans-among-clubs-keen-on-big-demon)

Wonder what they'd want for Preuss? Maybe they could package him up with Brayshaw?

[i'm-uninformed2]

Has anyone seen Preuss actually play a good game? I know I haven't.

I know he looks like a ruckman, but I haven't seen him play like an AFL standard ruck. And I'm not talking Nic Nat or Gawn level; just an ability to win some taps, make space for the mids, take the odd grab around the ground, and kick an occasional goal.

[Aaron]

I prefer to have Nankervis back if we can. He plays like Bloods.

[111431]

Has anyone seen Preuss actually play a good game? I know I haven't.

I know he looks like a ruckman, but I haven't seen him play like an AFL standard ruck. And I'm not talking Nic Nat or Gawn level; just an ability to win some taps, make space for the mids, take the odd grab around the ground, and kick an occasional goal.

i think, if he is allowed to settle in the role, he could become a more mobile version human wrecking ball like Mummy - space will be cleared because he will hurt anyone in his way. He is a very physical player. He collared one of the GWS speedsters a couple of weeks ago and stunned him

[stevoswan]

Are we though? Depends what motivates Preuss, given he chose to give up being Goldy's understudy to do the same with Max Gawn.

Didn't realise Greg Stafford is the Dees ruck coach.

A few others mentioned in the AFL article including Nankervis, Tom Hickey, Sam Hayes, Max Lynch and Shaun McKernan

Third time lucky? Giants, Swans among clubs keen on big Demon Preuss (https://www.afl.com.au/news/510542/third-time-lucky-giants-swans-among-clubs-keen-on-big-demon)

Wonder what they'd want for Preuss? Maybe they could package him up with Brayshaw?

The line from that article which interests me is this one:

"Preuss will be a target, while Richmond is yet to sign up two-time premiership ruckman Toby Nankervis to a new deal."

Go for Toby.....he might well be a three time premiership ruckman soon. Richmond have recently resigned Chol (I believe?) and had Soldo ahead of Nanka before Ivan's injury. He may see the writing on the wall.....and he has unfinished business at the Swans as I doubted he wanted to leave in the first place.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Brody Mihocek | AFL (https://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/players/1685/brody-mihocek) for peanuts ?

[AnnieH]

Ben brown officially on the market. Guy kicked 60 + goals three years in a row, he’s no mug. North would probably want a first rounder though


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Ben would "score a behind" for the other team if he had to line up at the SCG every week.
Drives me cray cray how he has to take 743 steps back to kick a goal.

[AnnieH]

Kinda happy to see the back of Stevie J.
Best behinds coach we ever had.

[barry]

Brody Mihocek | AFL (https://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/players/1685/brody-mihocek) for peanuts ?

No, No, No and no..... unless as a defender. then maybe... for peanuts.

[Ludwig]

"Ruckmen in the modern game do not win you premierships. Ruckmen are the most overrated position in the game with the least influence on the outcome.

Are people writing opinion pieces quoting me yet again?

[dejavoodoo44]

I've been reviewing a few tapes on this year's draft. Not many. Just a few. But I can say a few things with some confidence:

We will have to put up with the Bulldogs being a top team for the next decade. Ugle-Hagan could be the next Buddy. Looks terrific. Great NGA steal.
Let's not worry about our midfield. Campbell and Gulden are both guns. They are both so impressive with all aspects of their game. Add Stephens, McInerney, Blakey and Rowbottom and we've got a 6 gun midfielders for a long, long time, if we can keep them all. Blakey's the oldest at 20. It will be like a massive wave, getting bigger every year.

And steal is a good description of most NGA selections. I suspect that the Victorian clubs pre-draft involvement, is along the lines of checking the promising kids in their zones, to see if any of them have ethnic sounding names or look a bit dark. Then perhaps running a workshop or hosting a tour of the premises, as a bit of a bonding exercise. Et voila, go to the top of the draft.

But anyway, definitely agree that our midfield has plenty of promising depth and that we should prioritize other areas. In regards to young mids, we have a few that you haven't mentioned. Warner was recruited as a hard at it, inside mid. He impressed enough to get a debut, and did a few good things, despite being played out of position. With another preseason and some game time in the VFL, he'll probably be repaying the investment by the second half of next season. Ling was signed as a mid, and is skilful enough to still make a name for himself there. Wicks and Bell are excellent tacklers and both are combative enough to spend time inside. Florent of course. And at a slightly higher age bracket, Heeney, Papley and Mills/Godot, can all rotate into our centre set up, for a bit of variation. So, no real need to recruit a midfielder.

In contrast, there seems a real need for a KPF. Buddy might come good, or he might not. Reid isn't quite good enough to lead the attack. McCartin now looks like he's going to become a gun defender and Blakey looks like he is going to develop as an exciting and hard to match up on, hybrid player. Something like, one half outside mid, one quarter inside mid and one quarter forward flanker; but not a KPF. Which leaves McLean and Amartey: who while promising, are both more second ruck and deep forward types. I'm not sure if either have the running power to be dominant KPFs (hmmm, I wonder if my deranged predictive text was agreeing with me? It just changed KPFs to Logs).

So, I definitely think either McDonald or Thilthorpe with our pick 3. The vision of both does look encouraging. McDonald can clunk a mark, kick straight and long, and seems to have footy smarts. While Thilthorpe reminds me a bit of the King brothers. At 200cm he can spend time in the ruck, but he's quick and has strong hands. Would be very happy with either.

[gazza]

why do scribes think we need a ruckman. we have naismith,mccullum,alir,amerty,mclean,and knoll. they should all
be able to annoy other ruckmen.

[Thunder Shaker]

Everyone who thinks we need a gun ruckman to succeed should read that article......stuff it, I'll just quote the relevant section:

"Ruckmen in the modern game do not win you premierships."
A counterexample: Jason Ball to Nick Davis, 2005 Semi Final. Jason Ball to Amon Buchanan, 2005 Grand Final.

Has the "modern game" changed that much that a good tap from a ruckman is now worthless?

[Thunder Shaker]

And steal is a good description of most NGA selections. I suspect that the Victorian clubs pre-draft involvement, is along the lines of checking the promising kids in their zones, to see if any of them have ethnic sounding names or look a bit dark. Then perhaps running a workshop or hosting a tour of the premises, as a bit of a bonding exercise. Et voila, go to the top of the draft.
There would be an overhauling of the NGA rules if the Swans were involved in secretly locking away the best talent like this. Maybe even punished despite not breaking any rules. If a Melbourne-based club was involved, don't expect much to change. It's a rort they would prefer to keep.

[stevoswan]

A counterexample: Jason Ball to Nick Davis, 2005 Semi Final. Jason Ball to Amon Buchanan, 2005 Grand Final.

Has the "modern game" changed that much that a good tap from a ruckman is now worthless?

Good tap ruckmen (of the Nic Nat, Gawn or Grundy mold) are just so rare so most clubs plumb for a good 'competitive' ruckman....that we have those already, coupled with the risk, time and effort to develop a newbie (with no guarantee of success) probably makes getting a promising KPF a greater precedent.

[Thunder Shaker]

why do scribes think we need a ruckman. we have naismith,mccullum,alir,amerty,mclean,and knoll. they should all
be able to annoy other ruckmen.
Naismith is our #1 ruckman and he has played 30 games in seven seasons due to injuries, including two games since 2017.

You've forgotten Sinclair, and who is Mccullum?

Our ruck performances this year. Hitouts in each game, our rucks who got 10 or more hitouts listed:
1: Syd 34, Adel 34. (W 3) Naismith 28
(COVID-19 break)
2: Syd 34, Ess 30. (L 6) Sinclair 27
3: Syd 23, North 35. (W 11) Sinclair 19
4: Syd 45, Dogs 18. (L 28) Naismith 25, Sinclair 19
5: Syd 10, West Coast 46. (L 34) --
6: Syd 5, Richmond 32. (L 8) --
7: Syd 20, Gold Coast 40. (L 32) Sinclair 16
8: Syd 27, Haw 29. (W 7) Sinclair 24
9: Syd 37, St Kilda 35. (L 53) Sinclair 27, Aliir 10
10: Syd 24, Coll 33. (L 9) Sinclair 22
11: Bye
12: Syd 38, GWS 30. (W 41) Sinclair 28, Reid 10
13: Syd 32, Frem 28. (L 31) Sinclair 26
14: Syd 39, Port 35. (L 26) Sinclair 27, Aliir 10
15: Syd 19, Melb 38. (W 21) Sinclair 15
16: Syd 31, Carl 27. (L 5) Sinclair 21
17: Syd 20, Bris 34. (L 32) Aliir 11
18: Syd 25, Geel 25. (L 6) Sinclair 22

Not much correlation between ruck performances and game results...

[dejavoodoo44]

There would be an overhauling of the NGA rules if the Swans were involved in secretly locking away the best talent like this. Maybe even punished despite not breaking any rules. If a Melbourne-based club was involved, don't expect much to change. It's a rort they would prefer to keep.
Apparently there is some sort of move on to make the NGAs less of a rort, but I can't help thinking, that somehow we will also be penalised.

[crackedactor 01]

why do scribes think we need a ruckman. we have naismith,mccullum,alir,amerty,mclean,and knoll. they should all
be able to annoy other ruckmen.

I notice Longmire has a good opinion on Amartey. Maybe getting a ruckman is not that urgent. Never heard of McCullum ?

[Bloody Hell]

Not much correlation between ruck performances and game results...

There's a difference between taps and taps to advantage.

[Ludwig]

And steal is a good description of most NGA selections. I suspect that the Victorian clubs pre-draft involvement, is along the lines of checking the promising kids in their zones, to see if any of them have ethnic sounding names or look a bit dark. Then perhaps running a workshop or hosting a tour of the premises, as a bit of a bonding exercise. Et voila, go to the top of the draft.

But anyway, definitely agree that our midfield has plenty of promising depth and that we should prioritize other areas. In regards to young mids, we have a few that you haven't mentioned. Warner was recruited as a hard at it, inside mid. He impressed enough to get a debut, and did a few good things, despite being played out of position. With another preseason and some game time in the VFL, he'll probably be repaying the investment by the second half of next season. Ling was signed as a mid, and is skilful enough to still make a name for himself there. Wicks and Bell are excellent tacklers and both are combative enough to spend time inside. Florent of course. And at a slightly higher age bracket, Heeney, Papley and Mills/Godot, can all rotate into our centre set up, for a bit of variation. So, no real need to recruit a midfielder.

In contrast, there seems a real need for a KPF. Buddy might come good, or he might not. Reid isn't quite good enough to lead the attack. McCartin now looks like he's going to become a gun defender and Blakey looks like he is going to develop as an exciting and hard to match up on, hybrid player. Something like, one half outside mid, one quarter inside mid and one quarter forward flanker; but not a KPF. Which leaves McLean and Amartey: who while promising, are both more second ruck and deep forward types. I'm not sure if either have the running power to be dominant KPFs (hmmm, I wonder if my deranged predictive text was agreeing with me? It just changed KPFs to Logs).

So, I definitely think either McDonald or Thilthorpe with our pick 3. The vision of both does look encouraging. McDonald can clunk a mark, kick straight and long, and seems to have footy smarts. While Thilthorpe reminds me a bit of the King brothers. At 200cm he can spend time in the ruck, but he's quick and has strong hands. Would be very happy with either.Agree with all of this.

And so tired of waiting for Godot.

[grarmy]

...And at a slightly higher age bracket, Heeney, Papley and Mills/Godot, can all rotate into our centre set up, for a bit of variation. So, no real need to recruit a midfielder.

We are waiting for Godot.

[The Runner]

The value of a ruck is not in hit outs. But in a multitude of areas like clearing space in a congested area (peak Mumford, Lycett, Nic Nat), being an extra midfielder (Aliir against Geelong), going forward to apply scoring pressure (Chol is very good).
If you can acquire one that helps in these areas cheaply, happy days. The assessment from The Roar is bang on

The problem with Grundy, is that with hit outs not really meaning anything, his value is in his numbers as a midfielder. They don't need another midfielder that can't kick efficiently - they already have Treloar and Adams to do that. So he becomes expensive without the relevant upside.
That team would benefit a lot from a Mumford/Lycett type.

[KSAS]

According to SEN, we & GWS are showing interest in Pruess. Not sure of their sources.

[The Runner]

According to SEN, we & GWS are showing interest in Pruess. Not sure of their sources.

Unfortunately we don't have a version of Woj from ESPN in Australia. So, until the player or club comments, sources are useless.

[Melbourne_Blood]

According to SEN, we & GWS are showing interest in Pruess. Not sure of their sources.

Well obviously they’ve gleaned our interest from reading RWO, perhaps they’ve infiltrated orange, grey and white online also ?


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[gloveski]

A counterexample: Jason Ball to Nick Davis, 2005 Semi Final. Jason Ball to Amon Buchanan, 2005 Grand Final.

Has the "modern game" changed that much that a good tap from a ruckman is now worthless?

To right we had to good ruckman that year in Jolly and Ball


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[Nico]

Ross Lyon also said we should be into Cameron.

I was actually thinking that the other day as well.

We should be throwing the kitchen sink at him!

I think we sold all the kitchen sinks in Sydney for Buddy.

[Legs Akimbo]

And so tired of waiting for Godot.

I hear that we are into him this year. Tap ruckman of the highest calibre

[dejavoodoo44]

Agree with all of this.

And so tired of waiting for Godot.
And we might be in for a bit of a nervous wait on draft night. Though I think that depends on how Adelaide view their KPF situation. It should be okay, if they think they already have enough, with Walker, Fogarty, Himmelberg, and possibly Frampton and Lynch. If not, it's easy to imagine a scenario where the three gun KPFs go before our pick.

That is, if Adelaide decide they want a KPF, they first bid on Ugle-Hagan; because he's touted as the best player in the draft and to keep the Bulldogs honest. Assuming that the Bulldogs match, Adelaide could then take local lad, Thilthorpe. Since North are shopping around Brown and have culled Wood (deadwood?), they might be planning on taking a KPF at the draft; so they take McDonald. Which might leave many of us feeling disappointed.

Although that scenario, does rely on North making, what I perceive as the most rational decision. So, maybe we'll be okay?