Potential Comp Re-structures for 2009 and beyond

[Pekay]

Thought i'd throw this on the table, it comes up every few years but i think now is the time for action...
Based on ladder performances this year and over the last few years, i have come up with the most viable solution for all involved...
This will get many noses out of joint i imagine, but its time for action as i said..
The numbers that precede teams represent that club's grade

Premier Divison
Stays as a ten team competition
Pennant Hills (1)
UNSW/ES (1)
St George (1)
East Coast (1)
North Shore (1)
Sydney Uni (1)
Wests (1)
Wollongong (1)
Balmain (1)
Campbelltown (1)
Division 1- Eleven Team Comp
Top 6 of Prem Reserves,Top 5 of 1st Div Snrs
UNSW/ES (2)
East Coast (2)
Pennant Hills (2)
Sydney Uni (2)
St George (2)
North Shore (2)
UTS (1)
Manly Warringah (1)
Southern Sharks (1)
Holroyd-Parramatta (1)
Macquarie Uni (1)
Division 2- 8 team comp
Bottom 4 of Prem Reserves, Top 4 1st Div Reserves)
Wollongong (2)
Western Suburbs (2)
Balmain (2)
Campbelltown (2)
Manly Warringah (2)
UTS (2)
Southern Sharks (2)
Macquarie Uni (2)

Division 3- Nine team Comp
Mix of Bottom 3 1st Division Snrs (The Western clubs) 5th Place 1st Div Reserves team, top 5 2nd Division teams
Camden (1)
Penrith (1)
Nor-West (1)
Holroyd-Parramatta (2)
Sydney Uni Blue (3)
Pennant Hills (3)
UNSW/ES Bulldogs (3)
Moorebank Sports (1)- note this club will more than likely field two teams from next year, if past criteria is anything to go by- Colesy??
UTS (3)
Division 4- 9 Team Comp
But with potential for more ie- Sharks 3rds, perhaps a reformed St Clair??Any other standalone clubs that could potentially form as well, after all, growth is the name of the game.Mix of bottom 3 1st Div Reserves teams, rest of 2nd Div ladder
Nor-West (2)
Penrith (2)
Camden (2)
Macquarie Uni (3)
Manly (3)
UNSW/ES Whales (4)
Sydney Uni Reds (4)
Moorebank Sports (2)
Holroyd-Parramatta (3)
Obviously, this will strike up no amount of debate amongst the masses, but its essential for the survival of Sydney footy...I think you'll all find this will rear its head this week, its been a long time coming, and the bloke in charge now has a shi tin more foresight and vision than the last bloke...

There is also the problem of "splitting" clubs up at some stages, but this can be worked with, as we've seen with 18s and 2nd Division over the years... there are those that make it happen and those that sit around and wait for it to happen, as a wise man nce said (Probably James Hird or Sheeds)
I await the responses...

[Offal]

Pekay,

The President before me and myself came up with this proposal in 2003. We have been pushing for the league to implement it for 5 years. Finally.....

[ash]

Comp should stay as is.

What would work better is to allow premier league teams to use 1st division sides as a feeder club.

Premier league reserve should be of a much higher standard. Think (for once) if the comp when down what has been suggested, you have one team in premier league and your 2nd team is 2-3 divisions below.

How would a player adapt to such a gap?
Imagine an injured player coming back through 3rd division?
What if you have 5-6 injuries in premier division?
etc....

[humphrey bear]

Any idea that has seniors and reserves being split and playing at different grounds on the same say is bad and should be forgotten.

I assume you suggest promotion and relegation because form is temporary?

[ash]

Should push to make premier league stronger.
Even forget promotion/relegation.

Only if league expands then look for proposals. We

If we were to split, expect even less people at games (not that there are any now), less volunteers and less players willing to jump grades.

Any idea that has seniors and reserves being split and playing at different grounds on the same say is bad and should be forgotten.

I assume you suggest promotion and relegation because form is temporary?

[Norris Lurker]

If promotion and relegation was to work, it should have more criteria than just the premier of one division going up and the wooden spooner going down.
A well-run club that is having a bad year on the field would be devastated by relegation, while a club being promoted risks being out of their depth in their new division. The league?s Club of the Year points system could be helpful here ? as well as the on-field component, a club would also need to achieve a pre-agreed minimum number of Club of the Year points to be eligible for promotion; while a team that reaches a threshold of Club of the Year points and has not forfeited any games would have immunity from relegation.

[Pace To Burn]

[QUOTE=Pekay;406006]Thought i'd throw this on the table, it comes up every few years but i think now is the time for action...
Based on ladder performances this year and over the last few years, i have come up with the most viable solution for all involved...
This will get many noses out of joint i imagine, but its time for action as i said..
The numbers that precede teams represent that club's grade

[ Division 2- 8 team comp
Bottom 4 of Prem Reserves, Top 4 1st Div Reserves)
Wollongong (2)
Western Suburbs (2)
Balmain (2)
Campbelltown (2)
Manly Warringah (2)
UTS (2)
Southern Sharks (2)
Macquarie Uni (2)

Looks ok Pekay, but shorely Camden, Nor West and Penrith Seniors could compete against the above reserves sides

[Pace To Burn]

The lowest div a player coming back from injury from a Premier Div Senior side would play is 2nd div, which is no diff a standard to reserves now. The hardest thing would be the logistics of trainers etc.

[Pekay]

Thats probably one of the greatest concerns, with teams split over a weekend, trainers being a vital part of game day preparations, but it something that can be overcome. If the League think about it, we have two grounds at Bensons Lane that surface wise would be the equal of any ground in Sydney, surely a full day of football (starting at 8 or 10am and finishing at 4pm, even under lights on the main ground with a lighting upgrade) is feasible. Thats 8 games over 2 grounds from 8 til 4pm, seems alright for me (just a matter of sending out umpires, which havent existe in Ressies this year out this way)
You're from C'Town arent you Pace? Do you think you'd get more back to your magoos if there was more chance of a win every week?
And for the record, looking at UTS & Manly's 2s, they would compete against the senior teams of our comp, i'm sure others would agree. I have chosen the teams in their respective divisions according to ladder position this year, and taken into account the last few years also. A natural progression for Nor-West at end of 2006 (when we left 2nd Div) would've been to "Tier 4" being 1st Div Reserve Grade, as you can see from last two years results , we have only two wins 27 losses(with Manly this week would expect it to be 28 barring a miracle-call me defeatist if you will, but i call it realism) but thankfully, and i'm proud of the fact, no forfeits. So a natural fit would be the "tier 4" under the new structure.
For those involved in admin at their clubs, i'm sure you checked your emails this week and know whats coming up, i'm just preparing my club (and the gamein Sydney i'd like to think) for the future...

[Pace To Burn]

Dont think it matters too much with numbers, there might be three or four who throw it in when your struggling, our main problem was we lost 5 or 6 first graders two weeks before the start of the comp which effected our depth as well as we have had alot of injuries. I dont see a problem with the 2nd and 3rd divs, and if a club thats ressies in 3rd improved significantly they could always go up to 2nd div without causing too much problems and vice versa. I think we def need to have at least the ten Premier div sides remain though as the locations have the Metro area covered well.

[DLH]

The only issue I see with the way you've structured things Pekay is having the top 4 1st Div reserves sides placed above the bottom 3 1st Div senior sides. If Penrith were forced to play their top team in what would be the fourth tier of Sydney footy, we might as well shut up shop now, no-one with any talent would want to play out there.

That being said, the way I read it the overall concept is a fait au compli. It will be part of the landscape in 2009. My understanding is that the League have done some modelling and the effect of splitting teams up would be negligible, although I think it would call for more footy to be played on Sundays.

[Rafters]

The structure works well in local club cricket, soccer, tough football ... so no reason why it couldn't work in Sydney AFL. Give it a few years & it would sort itself out naturally. It is worth a try. The Premier League teams - that want to play seriously - will be the same strength but it will even out alot of the lower grades.

It is not important that your club has to have all sides play at the one location each week ... one of the joys of cricket is going back to the club & finding out the scores of how the other sides went. The reality is that most 2s players leave by halftime of ones anyway & the ones hardly ever watch the first half of the 2s.

So what if teams come last & lose by millions ... every season someone must come last regardless of whether you have 5 teams in the comp or 16.

Have a fifth & sixth grade to replace the under 18s & help keep the old boys (aka Masters) in the game (think of the 45yo playing cricket with upcoming 16yo). Don't worry about the old boys trying to belt the young fellas at that level because it wouldn't happen as they would be too slow to catch them & a great introduction into senior footy for the young fellas. Imagine the joy of a father being able to play a game with his son.

The ideal scenario is for each club to have 4 teams ... that way they can be guaranteed 2 games per week for every home game ... whether it be 1s & 4s or 2s & 3s. The interest has to be big enough in Sydney footy to be able to build clubs to these numbers if it wants to compete on the same level with other footy codes. If a club doesn't have 4 teams then have clubs share grounds so that there are 2 matches played there every week.

Also there is no reason why AFL is not played every weekend on dedicated grounds such as Monarch, Gipps, etc ... grounds are currently only partly utilised when you think that there are only played on 1 day every two weekends (ie 25%). That needs to change.

The structure also allows for new sides to be created ... slot them into the lower grades & let them work their way up. If they fold the following year or can get more numbers for a 2nd team then let them do so. Let the boys from the local golf club put a side in one year ... who cares if they are crap.

The key is getting people to participate in footy each week. if the league can supplement some of the costs of the competition (such as balls, umpires, waiving registration costs) then by reducing these entry barriers will make it easier for more teams to compete.