Delistings 2011

[BSA5]

I'm not really arguing the point with you, but was trying to point out when people speak of 'no AFL background', as ScottH did, many are actually saying they didn't grow up in an 'AFL environment', not that they first touched a Sherrin a couple of years back.

I'm with you, I also don't believe that is Jesse's problem either, his problem is he doesn't throw around his frame in a manner you'd expect somebody of his size would, added to the fact he is actually very mobile for a man his size makes it a double disappointment. It's fair to say that has little to do with where he was brought up.

But if you want to argue that a lad growing up and playing in Sydney has the same exposure to the game as a boy his age growing up in Victoria, SA or WA, then I guess I have nothing left...

But I don't think that's a valid argument at all, whether or not you think it's White's problem. Sure, players from rugby areas don't have the same exposure to the game, but so what? They all still play the game, they all still develop an understanding for the game, they have zero excuses, and most don't need them. Craig Bird has a great understanding of the game (he's a terrifically intelligent player) but he grew up in the middle of Rugby League heartland. The McVeigh brothers are similar. Sam Gilbert reads the play coming into the backline terrifically well. In fact, LOTS of QLD and NSW players are very intelligent players.

Not growing up in an AFL-dominated area does not mean a player doesn't come from an AFL background. If that starts becoming an excuse, then god help us.

[Melbournehammer]

Before we get into the Jesse debate can we have a look at tonight's game - a far better midfield than ours and the dominant marking forwards of dawes and cloke basically took sfa contested marks in the fifty against the hawks. Bash Jesse if you must bsa5 but try and acknowledge that maybe it's the rest of the side and their tremendous skills that makes being a ff in the 2011 swans a terrifically tough spot to play. And maybe recognize that the hawks tall defenders and structure at the mcg works a helluva lot better than you give it credit for.

But if you feel like blaming Jesse for our forward failures this year go right ahead....you'll get plenty of support. But you won't get it from me. I remain in the camp that he's the best we had available to us in those late season games and he did as well as could reasonably have been expected and regularly made a contest in the forward line and in the ruck.

[BSA5]

Before we get into the Jesse debate can we have a look at tonight's game - a far better midfield than ours and the dominant marking forwards of dawes and cloke basically took sfa contested marks in the fifty against the hawks. Bash Jesse if you must bsa5 but try and acknowledge that maybe it's the rest of the side and their tremendous skills that makes being a ff in the 2011 swans a terrifically tough spot to play. And maybe recognize that the hawks tall defenders and structure at the mcg works a helluva lot better than you give it credit for.

But if you feel like blaming Jesse for our forward failures this year go right ahead....you'll get plenty of support. But you won't get it from me. I remain in the camp that he's the best we had available to us in those late season games and he did as well as could reasonably have been expected and regularly made a contest in the forward line and in the ruck.

Daniel Bradshaw found the going OK as a FF. So has the raw, inexperienced and skinny Sam Reid, at both CHF and FF (at times). Mumford, Spangher, LRT (when he wasn't struggling with injury), even Pyke (looked good when he got on the park), all have been able to have an impact when inside 50. White has played two passable games for a FF/second ruck, and that is frankly not acceptable.

[SimonH]

Re: Jesse White. Midfielders, and other sundry mid-sized players, are a dime a dozen. Big guys who know how to catch and kick a ball are a rarity. If they have a bit of pace to them, that's a further bonus. If they have the engine to run around on the park for 70+ minutes a game, that's a further bonus again. In the new 21-man game, throw in most teams' need for someone who can play 2nd ruck and hang out on the ground (usually in the forward line) for stretches when not rucking. Result: guys like Jesse White are only going to be delisted if they show nothing whatsoever across an extended period of time (including not cracking a game in the firsts). You can argue back and forth re plenty of other fringe players, but unless there's an unexpected and radical change to ruck selection policy following the introduction of the supersub, Jesse is safe.

[Donners]

I don't think he'll be delisted, for that very reason, but I think he is a chance to be trade bait. Whether he goes on to be a Scott Stevens or a Brett O'Farrell is another matter.

[wolftone57]

Gee whiz I don't want to end up jesse's last defender but on the basis of that one game what do you say about Reid, spangher, mcveigh, Rohan, and to be honest the entire team bar Kennedy and mummy to half time.

As far as I am concerned mcveigh has excuses at present but the three talls were all smashed. And when that's the case it's usually whats happening down the field.

Jesse may not be in the side and he may not be in the club this time next year. I dont know what the club really thinks. But please to crucify him on a game where we were so dysfunctional forward of centee seems frankly ludicrous. And seriously when goodes went forward were we any better ?

The talls were smashed against the Hawks because of poor set up and delivery. Someone should have made Gibson accountable by bodying him out of the contest, he was able to spoil all game with no contact from our players. The manouvre of Gibson spoiling like that is no surprise, check out 2008 GF & Luke Hodge so why didn't coach or players do something to stop it? The talls all moved to the one side and competed in a pack against each other which is stupid & bound to fail. we had no alternate set up until the third & then reverted to the previous set up in the last I was frustrated by the 15 minute mark of the last. To win finals you need to play 4 quarters or just have the legs to outrun your oponent ala Collingwood (the Hawks should have won but ran out of legs). We will learn from this experience.

[wolftone57]

Daniel Bradshaw found the going OK as a FF. So has the raw, inexperienced and skinny Sam Reid, at both CHF and FF (at times). Mumford, Spangher, LRT (when he wasn't struggling with injury), even Pyke (looked good when he got on the park), all have been able to have an impact when inside 50. White has played two passable games for a FF/second ruck, and that is frankly not acceptable.

Braddy found the going tough in the final last year and I would love to see the contested footy won by him compared to contest in that game. The delivery was crap and he was frustrated on several occasions by that and the amount of opponents he was dealing with in contests. If we insist on just banging the ball in high with no partricular trajectory in mind then we can expect to get one in ten marks in the pack situation. If like Collingwood we set up so the ball drops slightly just outside the goal square and give our forwards playing in front an advantage then we will do well (that is assuming our forwards do play in front).

[BSA5]

Braddy found the going tough in the final last year and I would love to see the contested footy won by him compared to contest in that game. The delivery was crap and he was frustrated on several occasions by that and the amount of opponents he was dealing with in contests. If we insist on just banging the ball in high with no partricular trajectory in mind then we can expect to get one in ten marks in the pack situation. If like Collingwood we set up so the ball drops slightly just outside the goal square and give our forwards playing in front an advantage then we will do well (that is assuming our forwards do play in front).

Bradshaw had 9 marks, of which 4 were contested, and had 7 shots at goal (kicked 3). I don't think he found the going nearly as tough as you remember it.

[bandwagon]

I havent voted as I don't believe we will delist any, I mean - pick 79-80 odd in a shallow draft - just not worth it. For me Currie would be at most at risk. 5(?) years on the list and yet to debut?

[goswannies]

I havent voted as I don't believe we will delist any, I mean - pick 79-80 odd in a shallow draft - just not worth it. For me Currie would be at most at risk. 5(?) years on the list and yet to debut?

I wonder what the longest a player has ever spent on a AFL/VFL team list without ever playing a senior game?

[Bas]

GWS draft will save a few for another year. The following year could be mass clean out though.

Some will go by means of rookie upgrades.

[Nico]

The fact we haven't heard of any delisting at our club suggests to me that we are going to the trade table as usual. I am pretty sure I heard Roos say on a number of occasions that you must refresh your list every year. I doubt we will stray from the philosophy regardless of GWS. The draft was a comrpomised one last year with the Gold Coast happening, and we scored 3 corkers in Johnson, Parker and Lamb. I reckon we will go for 2 x 18 year olds and Mitchell plus a couple of trades.