Our Forward Line Depth and future Sucess

**scolsey22** · 7th June 2013, 04:27 PM

I have been doing a bit of reading this week with Jesse coming into the team and everyone has an opinion on him, so I thought I would stack up his performance to one of our best ever Barry Hall. Jesse has played 57 games for 54 goals an average of 0.94. Out of those 57 games he has played roughly 35 games give or take a couple as secondary ruckman. In the remaining 22 games games where he hasn't spent a considerable amount of time in the ruck he has kicked 39 goals an average of 1.7 goals a game .

In Barry Halls first 57 games at St Kilda in which he played as a forward he kicked 65 goals. Good for an average of 1.1 goals a game. Barry finished his career with 259 games and 746 goals at 2.8 goals a game.

Sam Reids stats are similar to barry, Reid has played 55 games for 61 goals an average of 1.1.

Not to be left out is the new kid on the block Kurt Tippet. Who from 57 games had 101 goals good for an average of 1.7. The same as Jesse White totals as a predominately forward player. In Tippetts entire career he has 104 games and 188 goals. Which is good for 1.8 goals a game.

I think i've shown here that if Jesse is played as a forward that he can definitely have success, he has almost the same goals average as tippett when he does play as a forward, now Tippett last year did spend time in the ruck so breaking it down that way tippett is a more well rounded player in that he can play forward and ruck and still kick 4-5 goals as he did on a few occasions last year. Jesse though as we have seen has the ability to do this at reserves level but hasnt proven it at seniors. But as a forward line player Jesse has shown that through the stats provided he could be a 35+ goal kicker for the swans a year. My ideal situation would be Tippett at FF and Reid at CHF, but if either of these men go down having Jesse there as a replacement is a necessity or even if the added height could be useful in a game.

All of our three young key forwards have a similar or greater goal average than Barry at that exact point in their careers. Now Barry matured and went on to have great sucess winning our Leading Goal kicker 7 years in a row if we can continue to get the games into Reid and give White a chance to build confidence in the seniors the way we did for Hall then whats to stop them from becoming 3+ goal a game players. If we can keep these 3 for the next 7-10 years and if they can mature in similar ways to the Barry halls of the world then we have the world at our feet for the forseeable future

**Chookbilly** · 7th June 2013, 04:31 PM

You've just set yourself up for a world of pain

**GordonS** · 7th June 2013, 04:41 PM

i have a guilty soft spot for jesse, much like i did for dennis-lane. for some reason i seem to like the battlers

**Bloody Hell** · 7th June 2013, 06:10 PM

I was always a fan, but gave up the last couple of years, basically since they've been focusing him on the ruck.

The Swans have treated him badly in the way they've managed him, not giving him a run at it and the one off games he gets as a forward are usually in horrific conditions that the best of key forwards would struggle in.

His problems aren't what he does with ball in hand. It's what he does without the ball. The biggest ball watcher I've seen at this level, and when I see snippetts of him in the ressies I see it there. The trait can be an asset for a full forward, but not a ruckman.

If he's given a run at the FF spot, no doubt he could be valuable. But he won't get the chance at Sydney.

There will undoubtedly be interest and I will bet he is a Lion next year.

**wolftone57** · 7th June 2013, 06:29 PM

I think Jesse could do quite well if given a couple of games. It is much harder for a key position player or ruck to come in and make an impact. There is more pressure on them for a start even before the ball is bounced. As us short people know it takes longer for a thought to transmit to the relevant places in a tall person than a shorter person. This isn't to say tall people are stupid we know that isn't true. But by the time the thought gets to the leg to kick the ball that little bastard has moved again. This could also explain Sam's problems in front of goal too much time to think and the thoughts all get confused on the way down. See this is physics, all that space and time and a mixing of the probabilities and whallah! Confusion.

**linko** · 7th June 2013, 07:00 PM

There is no doubt that he has the attributes... I really like the way he attacks the ball but he seems to go missing, probably because of the fact that he is usually played as a bits player and that is difficult to do, see Dre's efforts when he is not given a specific role. I really hope for his sake, as well as the teams, he gets amongst it and hits the scoreboard tomorrow.

**aardvark** · 7th June 2013, 07:28 PM

2009 = 18 games
2010 = 20 games
2011 = 13 games until they got fed up with him.
2012 = 3 games
I think two and a half years of consistent opportunities is a pretty decent opportunity to prove yourself. Not many people get as many chances in life.

Most disposals = 14 Rnd 21 2009 v Collingwood.
Most Goals = 4 Rnd 16 2009 V Carlton.

**scolsey22** · 7th June 2013, 07:55 PM

He had two years of consistent games not all as a forward and kicked 42 goals. In 2011 he kicked 6 goals in the first 3 games and had a couple quiet games and was dropped. When he returned he played 7 games as second ruckman and since then he has been treated as a second ruckman not a forward. LRT took on the second tall forward role alongside Reid last year. The year before that Spangher. It was a waste of time though in the fact that over one and a half years where jesse could have developed into a 100 game player with experience and confidence we opted for Spangher now at the Hawks, Everitt who is in defence and LRT who has been shifted back to defence before his injury. This was the point of the thread in that we need to get games into these players because apart from the buddy franklins it takes more than 50 senior games for key forwards to find there feet no matter the age.

**Auntie.Gerald** · 7th June 2013, 08:45 PM

Scolsey appreciate the research

like so many "emerging" key forwards, backs or ruckman they are a work in progress and some shoot the lights out overtime and some fall into the abyss !

Yes that is a generalisation but it isnt far off the mark.....and I think it is fair to say that stand out more for better or worse ie in the midfield sometimes it is hard to work out who had more impact on a game ie did ROK really have 14 tackles today which made more of an impact to Jacks 30 disposals ??

Ted Richards, Mike Pyke, Heath Grundy, LRT are great examples of persistent training and development and a massive payoff at the end !

Jesse White, membrey and Incy could also replicate the same years of development with a fantastic result .........or not !

Timing is everything and a key player injury or two can also open up the world to an emerging player via forced senior game time etc

my gut feeling is Jesse really really fades in and out of games..........if he overtime can become more of a 4 qtr player the world is at his feet !

Hawkins, Tippett and Cloke on their day when emerging through the ranks could be as ordinary as anyone - now that appears to be history and they are regarded as key players vital to team performance !

**scolsey22** · 7th June 2013, 09:12 PM

Exactly people need to develop, ted was in and out at 28 and look how he is. Gets a run of games and now all australian defender. This is the frustrating thing now in that Jesse could play a really solid game but next game tippett and reid come back and jesse would be the first one out. The game this week is more about jesses career than might be his only senior chance to round 13-finals because with reid and tippett fit it may be his only chance to prove to longmire or other clubs he belongs at AFL level. And with reid out he gets a chance to be our focal point and see how he handles the pressure.