List changes and trade bait

[Ludwig]

I generally agree with your list Mug Punter....

IMO, our needs are

1) Dangerous small forward. A specialist, not just resting rotating mids.

2) A ruckman. We need more than just Pyke, and Derrickx isn't the answer.

3) A KP defender. Preferably one with a bit of mongrel.

We do have some likely customers in the 2's, like Jones and Mitchell, and others.

But for immediate impact, we probably need to do some trading.

I think Membrey can be that Breust type small forward, even though he's not that small, like a Ballantyne. But he can kick goals from set shots and on the run at all angles.

After signing Pyke, it seems unlikely that we will try to get another ruckman. It seems the plan is to wait until Naismith and Nanka are really. I think we should feel positive about their development.

In another thread I suggested that Reid should play CHB. It doesn't solve the total KPD situation long term, but should suffice in the transition to the successors to Ted and Reg.

[SimonH]

Two choices to be made:

1) Do we believe this current team can win a premiership? If so then we keep them together and hope they can make up 60 points against the best.

Could the Swans team of 2009 win a premiership? How much did they have to make up on the best? (Hint: we went 8:14 and finished 12th, and the team that went 15:7 and finished 4th missed the GF by 73 points.) We already know how to turn a side that far down the pile into a flag-winning unit.

Statistically, the 2014 GF is a massive outlier. It's the biggest score that we've given up since round 18, 2010 where Melbourne scored 142 points against us at the MCG. It's also our biggest loss since that game (73 points). For a team to record its worst result for years in a GF is something that in general only happens once in a few decades (even though it's now happened twice this century).

If you measured the quality of a list by its worst result, you would say that every team in the AFL had a deeply flawed list well short of a premiership. In that sense, the result says something about the resilience of individual players (and more importantly their ability to gel together under extreme pressure), but it doesn't say anything about whether our list is talented enough to win a flag.

If we don't want to 'enjoy' what Port Adelaide went through 2008-2012 then we keep on grinding it out the Swans' way, which is to push and keep developing our established players who we know are good enough, 'push out' experienced players near the end through retirements, and for those who are contracted (and where there's no trade interest) but they are no longer in our best 22 in 2015, simply don't pick 'em; trade for need (and trade away those we no longer need so much, but the market does) and evolve our list sensibly.

And above all, back our players�the experienced players should know where they're at, but if the young players believe 'we're xx goals off being a premiership side, we're miles away, we'll never make it', then that's Port Adelaide 2008 thinking where you could see them drop their heads and lose confidence in themselves, and got the results you'd expect. Each of Dane Rampe, Nick Smith and Ben McGlynn I thought were disappointing today compared with their best this year. Doesn't mean that their spots on the list should be in jeopardy.

Towards that end: Shaw should be gone as I don't believe we could retain Malceski with him still on the list, Goodes can do what he likes but 2015 is fairly likely to be that one year too many. Keep each of Reid (barring an offer better than I believe we will get), Jetta and Rohan. They're all well and truly capable of playing in the next Swans' premiership team.

[Matt80]

I think Goodes and Shaw need to retire. They have given so much, but could potentially have ROK and LRT years in 2015.

Sam Reid needs to play in the back six in 2015. We have to see if he can be an effective tall defender. Tippett and Buddy are the only tall focal points that you need up forward. Membey needs a chance up forward.

It would be best if Malceski made some good money on the open market. Zak Jones should come into his role.

Garry Rohan has taken steps this season but a needs a better year next year.

It's important that Heeney, Hewitt and Mitchell get good chunks of time in the midfield.

Kiran Jack and McVeigh need to spend more time as small forwards with the odd rotation.

Cunningham needs to get himself to a position where he can shut down a Brad Hill.

Lloyd needs to take another step and I hope he leaves his fitness performance to the Swans strength and conditioning staff. He does not need 21 straight days in the shed with Jimmy.

[swanspant12]

Reid and Jetta have been in putrid form all year. How Membrey hasn't gotten a gig ahead of Reid this year is ridiculous. Bloke has been bagging goals every week whilst Reid has done absolutely nothing yet still get's in the team, staggering.

Our defence is a massive worry. Shaw has got to go. Continuously goes to ground, has lost his turn of pace and his kicking skills are a liability. Has been a great servant but must be moved on after next year.

We got killed in the ruck again today. Pyke isn't good enough when it comes to the big dance. Needs support. Mumford anyone? Been a massive loss.

Oh well. Onwards and upwards. GO BLOODS.

[Cardinal]

Well, I'm literally sick and tired but my immediate sensible and well considered reaction to the loss is that Walker, Dangerfield & Sloane will really stiffen us up next year.

[ScottH]

Unlocked as promised

[mcs]

Unlocked as promised

I hope you know what you've just unleashed on us all Scott

[ScottH]

Oh well. At least it is the right time of year for it

[liz]

Can we just ask that everyone posts respectfully. This goes for all threads but most particularly this one, where tempers have gotten frayed. Remember that everyone is hurting badly after yesterday. We are not all going to agree on how the list needs to move forward, but it should be possible to agree, to disagree, to agree to disagree without being aggressive, insulting or condescending.

[Dosser]

OK. I will try one. I have been a big supporter of Reid but I am scratching my head to work out how we get best value from him? Is he a forward or back? Would we be better off testing his value on the market at the moment? It would open up salary space but then don't big guys mature later? Six months ago I would never have considered this but now I am not so sure.

[Ludwig]

OK. I will try one. I have been a big supporter of Reid but I am scratching my head to work out how we get best value from him? Is he a forward or back? Would we be better off testing his value on the market at the moment? It would open up salary space but then don't big guys mature later? Six months ago I would never have considered this but now I am not so sure.

With AJs future uncertain and no obvious replacements for Ted and Reg (hopefuls, but nothing obvious), I don't think we are in a position to lose Reid. We don't need another midfielder, so what would we want for him? A draft pick, probably to get another KPP. He isn't living up to expectations as a forward. He was given a difficult job during the year, filling in as ruckman and wherever we had a hole to fill. But it doesn't seem to suit him. He needs a definite position and that seems to be in defence.

[aardvark]

Trade Reid and Jetta for picks, use the cap space for Frawley/Ryder.

Reid contracted till 2017 unfortunately.