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Thread: Captaincy 2017 and beyond

  1. #1

    Captaincy 2017 and beyond

    Is it a problem that our captains had minimal impact in the club's best and fairest this year? Kizza scraped in at 10th and Macca didn't feature in the top 10. Macca has injury as an excuse but his form has been ordinary - even Tom Harley acknowledged so much when he specifically commented that a lot of Macca's value is in directing the play. I don't think you have to have your best player as captain but as a rule you want a captain to lead with their actions and not just their pointing/directing the play. It would probably be too precipitate to dump both of them but I think it might be time for Macca to step back and someone else to take his place, mostly because he is older than Kizza and his form is more questionable. Who the replacement might be, is a tough call. I think it would have to come from the leadership group but there are a few possibilities and none of them is standing out to me as being the perfect one for right now although any of them might well do a great job.

    The person that I think leads best with their actions is Joey.

    Buddy has shown excellent leadership this year. He makes a point of getting involved when the chips are down and trying to influence the game. I also think he specifically does actions on-field to try and lift team morale and to rally the team, show we're up for the fight and won't be intimidated etc. which I really like. Plus a few of the younger players have made a point of saying how good he has been at mentoring them (both forwards and defenders: Papley, Hewett, X, Aliir). Still, the fact that he is relatively new to the club and also (maybe??) that he is a forward, may count against him. Plus he has the respect of the playing group as seen in him winning the Players' Player award for 2016.

    Parker has a great captain's aura and is tremendously respected (as evidenced by him being voted the AFL's most courageous player the past two years' running). I think he has a hard side that may be an asset in a captain, more like Selwood or Hodge than the other contenders. I believe he will be captain sooner or later. Maybe his lack of seniority (at least relative to Joey and Hanners) could be raised but youth and inexperience hasn't prevented players like Marcus Bontempelli and Zach Merritt doing a great job when they got the chance this year and they are much more junior than Parker.

    Ramps is brilliant and has lived up to every bit of responsibility thrown his way and taken on more for himself. He is a classy guy and we could do a lot worse than him. Perhaps he doesn't have enough seniority. But he is local, in case that is important.

    Hanners should be in the conversation but I'm not sure if he gets my vote. He certainly also leads with his actions, a lot like Joey. He will be around for a long time and is very likely to remain one of our best players which counts in his favour.

    Reg and Smooch could do it but perhaps are content being the leaders down back? I think Reg only joined the leadership group in the past season and it took him out of comfort zone. That said, he did a magnificent job. He has grown into the role and perhaps can grow further.

    Do others agree it is time for change? Any thoughts on who the new captain should be or if we should only have a single captain? Anyone reckon we should change them both? I'm pretty sure somebody else has already suggested that Macca should be replaced as captain but I don't remember who it was and anyway I figured might be worth having a thread devoted to this topic.

  2. #2
    Carpe Noctem CureTheSane's Avatar
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    I have no idea who is seen as a leader at the club.A great player doesn't make a strong leader, nor does a great clubman.
    A leader is a leader, and the club will identify who takes on that role (roles).
    Personally I think that it is dangerous to reinstate McVeigh as a captain if there is a chance that his form continues to diminish and he struggles to get a run.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by CureTheSane View Post
    I have no idea who is seen as a leader at the club.A great player doesn't make a strong leader, nor does a great clubman.
    A leader is a leader, and the club will identify who takes on that role (roles).
    Unfortunately Sam Mitchell is the perfect example.

    Honestly who would have thought Dan Hannebery would be one of the top contenders for captaining the Swans even few years ago. His evolution as a player and leader has been impressive to observe.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Levii3 View Post
    Unfortunately Sam Mitchell is the perfect example.

    Honestly who would have thought Dan Hannebery would be one of the top contenders for captaining the Swans even few years ago. His evolution as a player and leader has been impressive to observe.
    I thought Hannebery would be good after 2012 and was upset when Jack got the nod (Love Jack, but I don't think he's captain material). Hannebery has always been a little boyish/cocky and I really think captains need that sometimes.

    I remember in 2012 after the swans won the flag they had a paintball competition, and all the players wanted to get Hannebery for some reason. Also a huge practical joker. I think players like Hannebery are excellent for team morale and 'togetherness.'

  5. #5
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    JPK, Parker, Hanners or Buddy..... any of them would be a good captain. Buddy was my tip for Players Player.
    Very highly regarded, and never lays down when the going gets tough.

  6. #6
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    Not sure Buddy would be that comfortable with the media stuff that goes with being a club captain. I get the impression he endures the media he has to do, rather than enjoying it.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    Not sure Buddy would be that comfortable with the media stuff that goes with being a club captain. I get the impression he endures the media he has to do, rather than enjoying it.
    Well, as usual the voice of reason and insight BUT what do you think? Should we keep the same captains? If not, then who? No opinion? I'd love to know. This is not meant to sound aggressive - just would love to know your further thoughts.

  8. #8
    At this stage I'd say Joey. So dependable, like a Selwood. Parker will be there one day but I'd let him have a a few more years to develop without that burden.


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodspirit View Post
    Well, as usual the voice of reason and insight BUT what do you think? Should we keep the same captains? If not, then who? No opinion? I'd love to know. This is not meant to sound aggressive - just would love to know your further thoughts.
    I think it's hard to tell from outside a club. Captaincy is about far more than just onfield leadership and clearly there's a lot of stuff that Jack and McVeigh do off field that is highly rated by the coaching staff. I am not convinced that you need the person with the nominal captaincy title to be the one who lifts during games when most needed. You just need lots of onfield leaders and, in the main, our senior group played exceptionally well (and consistently well) throughout the season. A couple didn't have their best games in the final match of the year but injury certainly played a part in that (for Buddy, Parker - who's knee was strapped and clearly sore, and Hanners whose gut running might have got us over the line in the final quarter had his knee not been taken out at the end of the 3rd quarter).

    I rate McVeigh's onfield 2016 higher than many on here. Sure, it wasn't his best season but he did have an injury interrupted pre-season. He played some pretty good games along the way. Jack's overall form was a little down on where it has been in prior years. He was still a valuable member of the team but not up to prior season standards. Whether this is general decline as he gets a little older, or he just had a slightly down year, who knows?

    If one of both of McVeigh or Jack decided to step down, I think Rampe would be an excellent choice to become a co-captain (and not just because he's a NSWelshman!) Alternatively, Parker has captain written all over him and I don't think he's too young. If Kennedy wanted the role, he's certainly earned it with his consistent high level performances but, as with Buddy, he strikes me as a player who wouldn't feel that comfortable with the captaincy mantle.

  10. #10
    Regular in the Side WauchopeAnalyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    I think it's hard to tell from outside a club. Captaincy is about far more than just onfield leadership and clearly there's a lot of stuff that Jack and McVeigh do off field that is highly rated by the coaching staff. I am not convinced that you need the person with the nominal captaincy title to be the one who lifts during games when most needed. You just need lots of onfield leaders and, in the main, our senior group played exceptionally well (and consistently well) throughout the season. A couple didn't have their best games in the final match of the year but injury certainly played a part in that (for Buddy, Parker - who's knee was strapped and clearly sore, and Hanners whose gut running might have got us over the line in the final quarter had his knee not been taken out at the end of the 3rd quarter).

    I rate McVeigh's onfield 2016 higher than many on here. Sure, it wasn't his best season but he did have an injury interrupted pre-season. He played some pretty good games along the way. Jack's overall form was a little down on where it has been in prior years. He was still a valuable member of the team but not up to prior season standards. Whether this is general decline as he gets a little older, or he just had a slightly down year, who knows?

    If one of both of McVeigh or Jack decided to step down, I think Rampe would be an excellent choice to become a co-captain (and not just because he's a NSWelshman!) Alternatively, Parker has captain written all over him and I don't think he's too young. If Kennedy wanted the role, he's certainly earned it with his consistent high level performances but, as with Buddy, he strikes me as a player who wouldn't feel that comfortable with the captaincy mantle.
    Liz, you are dreaming onfield.

    Jack was pretty good but McVeigh is in our bottom 6 most games. Cant defend 1 on 1, cant catch anyone, cant mark over head. When Mcveigh played with all of our loses or but 1.

    Can ran all day, works hard and provides some leadership. When playing forward is much better and creates good space and solid kick for goal.

    He gets most of his possessions from receiving the ball by hand and 20m kicks and makes no impact.

    I am not calling a dud but his best days are well behind him unless he plays in the forward line.

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  11. #11
    I think McVeigh has to give up the captaincy next year and only be picked on merit. As a player (not a captain), I'm not sure he'll be in our best 22 every week in 2017. That's why.
    As a replacement I say Joey or Parker. Gut says Parker

  12. #12
    I think there are some players that get weighed down by the role of captain. Kirk was the opposite. I used to love the way he would dig in and get the whole team to follow when we down going into the last qtr. I see Kizza as someone who tries to do too much, that mark in the GF is case in point. It was just crazy and buggered him for the rest of the game. Macca with all his directing forgets he is a player too. I reckon Hanners would be a player that would lift into the role. I wonder if JPK is just best left to do the heavy lifting.

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