Match Day Rnd.4 West Coast V Sydney. Domain Stadium 20.10 pm.

[mcs]

I don't think the criticism of Longmire is warranted.

I agree in part Ludwig, but I do think its reasonable to question his ability to adapt our gameplan to the way footy is changing. No two ways about it, our highly contested, tough in and under footy is not as effective as it once was, with the way the game is moving. I'm yet to see any real evidence that we are going to easily adopt to the way the game more broadly is changing.

He deserves plenty of leeway, and injuries and missing personnel are killing us so far this season - but I don't think its unfair to be a bit reserved on the gameplan side of things.

[Markwebbos]

I agree in part Ludwig, but I do think its reasonable to question his ability to adapt our gameplan to the way footy is changing. No two ways about it, our highly contested, tough in and under footy is not as effective as it once was, with the way the game is moving. I'm yet to see any real evidence that we are going to easily adopt to the way the game more broadly is changing.

He deserves plenty of leeway, and injuries and missing personnel are killing us so far this season - but I don't think its unfair to be a bit reserved on the gameplan side of things.

You could say the same thing about last year, but we got within a whisker of winning the GF. Difference is this year we are being beaten around the contest and don't have a plan B. Our game plan relies on winning in the middle.

Question is whether getting all those players back will make a difference? I think it will.

I also think the injection of youth is about making us quicker and more aggressive with ball movement, but it will take time

[Boddo]

I agree in part Ludwig, but I do think its reasonable to question his ability to adapt our gameplan to the way footy is changing. No two ways about it, our highly contested, tough in and under footy is not as effective as it once was, with the way the game is moving. I'm yet to see any real evidence that we are going to easily adopt to the way the game more broadly is changing.

He deserves plenty of leeway, and injuries and missing personnel are killing us so far this season - but I don't think its unfair to be a bit reserved on the gameplan side of things.

How does he change it an instant. Look at what we've drafted over the last few years we have to be patient. Our side is evolving to how the game is evolving. It will take time. We can't just say overnight lets play an uncontested running game when we don't have the cattle. Imagine saying that to Kennedy, Hannebery & Parker.

[Mountain Man]

As to the game plan, the 2 players who were 'allowed' to move onfrom 2016 were Mitchell and Nankervis. The former was a regular whipping boy of too inside, slow and too contested possession oriented. Pretty much the same for Nankervis - slower and useful around contests but not as promising a tap ruckman as Naismith.

So in game terms, the supposed right type of players went to allow a faster game plan. Injuries and performance have crewelled 2017 (so far - hopefully), but blaming Longmire's adherence to an outmoded gameplan seems to me to be a bit unfair.

[ernie koala]

Sick to death of honourable losses.....

For some reason I feel very confident we'll secure our first win of the season against an extremely unlikeable GWS...

I look forward to it.

[aardvark]

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[mcs]

How does he change it an instant. Look at what we've drafted over the last few years we have to be patient. Our side is evolving to how the game is evolving. It will take time. We can't just say overnight lets play an uncontested running game when we don't have the cattle. Imagine saying that to Kennedy, Hannebery & Parker.

I'm not suggesting that he can change it in an instant. Not suggesting that at all. But I don't think it takes a genius to see the way the game is going. Our team may well be evolving in terms of who we are recruiting - that I have little doubt either. But I don't see what is unreasonable to suggest that we will struggle to adapt.

It will take time of course, but like with any journey, you would like to see some markers along the way showing we are making progress. In terms of the gameplan, all I've seen so far is a suicidal tendency to play on far too often out of the back line this season - that is all that has really changed that I can see.

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So in game terms, the supposed right type of players went to allow a faster game plan. Injuries and performance have crewelled 2017 (so far - hopefully), but blaming Longmire's adherence to an outmoded gameplan seems to me to be a bit unfair.

I'm not blaming Longmire's adherence to the gameplan for the position we are in - not at all. Just saying I don't think it is unreasonable to not be completely convinced that he will be able to evolve the game plan, as we will need to do over the coming seasons. I damn well hope he proves those that doubt wrong - and as I said elsewhere, he deserves plenty of leeway. But he shouldn't be above reasonable questioning or criticism either when things aren't going well.

[aardvark]

Liked the effort, hated the turnovers and poor skill execution. Cunningham and Marsh showed a bit along with Hayward.
I cringed every time Reid or Buddy went up in the ruck.
At least we now have a 9 day break and Macca, Rohan, Tippett, Heeney and Naismith back in training.

[Boddo]

I'm not suggesting that he can change it in an instant. Not suggesting that at all. But I don't think it takes a genius to see the way the game is going. Our team may well be evolving in terms of who we are recruiting - that I have little doubt either. But I don't see what is unreasonable to suggest that we will struggle to adapt.

It will take time of course, but like with any journey, you would like to see some markers along the way showing we are making progress. In terms of the gameplan, all I've seen so far is a suicidal tendency to play on far too often out of the back line this season - that is all that has really changed that I can see.

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I'm not blaming Longmire's adherence to the gameplan for the position we are in - not at all. Just saying I don't think it is unreasonable to not be completely convinced that he will be able to evolve the game plan, as we will need to do over the coming seasons. I damn well hope he proves those that doubt wrong - and as I said elsewhere, he deserves plenty of leeway. But he shouldn't be above reasonable questioning or criticism either when things aren't going well.

I disagree. I think our game plan is changing but it's very very hard to change as fast as the AFL has moved with the rules. I mean look at the Bulldogs it's like the AFL has said "there you go that's what we want so let's move the rules along to that style of footy" 2 years ago it wouldn't last but with the new interpretation of htb, hand passing and dropping the ball it's pretty damn hard to go bang lets play like that. We were changing but the AFL just beat us to the change very quickly.

[mcs]

I disagree. I think our game plan is changing but it's very very hard to change as fast as the AFL has moved with the rules. I mean look at the Bulldogs it's like the AFL has said "there you go that's what we want so let's move the rules along to that style of footy" 2 years ago it wouldn't last but with the new interpretation of htb, hand passing and dropping the ball it's pretty damn hard to go bang lets play like that. We were changing but the AFL just beat us to the change very quickly.

Fair point boddo, though in that regard it doesnt matter if you can keep up with thredonkeys changing the goal posts, its whether you can keep up with the ability of other teams to adapt. In that regard, even with personnel and injuries issues taken into account, we are far off the pace in 2017. As are the Hawks by the looks of it. With players back we may well close the gap somewhat, but i cant see very clearly where we have changed a lot of how we play since buddy/tippo arrived at the club (which necessitated a change from our 2012 style). Our gameplan still fundamentally relies on winning hard ball in the middle and wearing our opponents down with hard, contested footy.

I think it may be telling (more evidence is needed as players come back), but there has been an eerie resemblance in all 4 losses in relation to where we are getting beaten. Some of it can be put down to the inexperience of the team, but thinking in particular about the midfield, one could conclude it points to more fundamental issues with our game plan.

[dimelb]

Back from The Riser and a very enjoyable night it was apart from the result.

Our basic problems are skills and positioning, in that order. Not counting the injured absentees, of whom I agree that Rampe is the one most missed.

The youngsters are doing very well, to quote young Mr Grace. I was very pleased to see Hayward and Marsh doing their stuff. Apply also - good to have him back and he will be better for the run.

We will lose to GWS and then start winning again.

[Plugger46]

About what I expected really. Had a crack, came up short against a team which is going a little better than ours. Particularly at home.

The soft one Shuey got halted all of our momentum but they were the better side and deserved to win.

Don't think we're too far off at all. Just can't quite get all or enough of our guns to click on the one day/night.

Reckon we'll beat the Giants and then the draw really opens up.