Match Day Rnd.10 Sydney V Hawthorn. 19.50 pm. SCG.

[Ludwig]

There are a lot of ruckmen that I like. I still think Dean Cox would be the best ruckman in the competition despite changes to the game, because he was a great football play who happened to be a big guy. I like Kreuzer and Max Gawn because they do the job in the ruck and make an impact around the ground. Tippett at his best is that kind of player, but we just haven't seen it since his hamstring tendon injury last year, so if he doesn't come good we have to find another solution. I've made many comments about being hopeful that Cameron can be the one because he does make an impact around the ground and is a goal kicker. Hopefully he can take that game to the next level.

As for the game plan, it's hard to know as an observer if the coach has asked the player to execute a Plan B, but the players just can't execute, or there is no Plan B, because we don't hear what goes on in the huddle and at halftime. We are just guessing about what the coach wants from his players.

Some games we seem to press up really well, but other times we don't. It's hard to know what the game plan is when we see the players play a different game from week to week.

[Hotpotato]

The whole four OTC have concurred.

[dimelb]

Yes, one could also make an argument, that the two tackles in which Lloyd and Reid were concussed were more worthy of frees.

Damn right one could. And the panel considered Burgoyne's effort and let it pass.

[Merdo5555]

Im sorry but if Longmire needs scathing criticism of Friday's performance to change our game plan then he has to go. Not only was it completely what was expected from the Hawks but the style has beaten us two other times. I think the talent in the group enabled us to keep all 3 games close despite appalling tactics.

I still think we have one of the best lists, yes some pruning is done but there is more than enough talent for top 8 and further if we get on a roll and are injury free.

I would still see what Roosey is up to, if he isn't interested then let's go new school and get young keen coach in. The Bulldogs show it can work and I think a new coach and tactics would get the team bubbling along nicely.

Horse has been great, but the game has passed him and I suspect the players are numb to much he says anymore I have always though Jack Gibson one of the greatest league coaches had it right when he said no more than 2 or 3 years at a club. Maybe one more if your successful. John is starting to undermine a great legacy.

[liz]

The whole four OTC have concurred.

Concurred what?

[Auntie.Gerald]

Ludwig

What i am suggesting is not just tinkering without the ball ie as u have noted by changing how we set up our defence and being flexible to change this when needed

I'm saying that our best defence is not letting the opposition have possession of the ball as much as they did on Friday and other games this season

actually keeping possession when the opposition is on a run and stringing passes and starving us of possession......recognising that we can adjust and go through periods of uncontested and contested to get the game on our terms. I feel at the swans we try to force contested footy to be the answer to everything and it is simply not.

Most goals in soccer come from 3 or less passes. So why not only pass three or less passes all game? why does a top level soccer team go through large periods of the game putting together 10 plus passes????

For one reason.......when they have the ball the opposition does not !!! It is the best defence

The hawks were massively influenced by the same strategy ie ur best defence is maintaining possession and this is exploited at a low risk level via switching and short uncontested kicks / marks

I feel John and the coaching department fail to truly understand this concept that the uncontested chip and mark for significant parts of the game is the best defence and sometimes we need to embrace this in our game plan when we can't get the game on our terms

So far we are showing the opposite with head in the sand and using predominantly one method in attack to arrest the game - I wish our coaches could see the value in being flexible with the ball to counter opposition momentum

[stevoswan]

That idiot Brereton on SEN said that "Hodgey doesn't stage" and reckoned Grundy got away with one after blatantly smashing Hodge in the jaw. He even encouraged people to look at the video. You look at the video and you see Grundy never went anywhere near the jaw - it's clearly the shoulder. It just shows what a poor commentator Brereton is, how partisan and divorced from reality he is when it comes to any matter involving the Dawks. He simply can't be trusted to be rational or objective. It just reinforced why my usual reaction is to turn off/change channels as soon as Brereton comes on.

+1

Yes and I suppose that in Dermyworld, Hodge doesn't push people into goal posts, take cheap shots behind play or instigate brawls when the mustard and turd are behind. In fact, it's just poor accident prone Hodgey, having a series of unfortunate accidents, in which the opposition players get injured.

+1!

[Ludwig]

Auntie,

I agree that we have to be flexible with our game plan and if something doesn't fit on a given day, then try something else.

We have basically structured our defence to protect quick ball movement through the corridor, because the better teams have been effective in scoring this way. And we too have been trying to develop this kind of a game, although not always with great success. So now we have folks suggesting that we allow the opposition to draw our defence out so we leave the corridor open for attack. This may well work against some teams, but others will cut us apart.

The Bulldogs use their defenders to attack the ball and push it forward, hoping that their pressure will slow the opposition enough on the rebound to allow players to get back and defend. They leak a lot of goals out the back, but overall it seems to work. But it's a game plan that takes a lot of energy and commitment from the whole team. We haven't shown the capacity to play that kind of game.

I think our efforts this year have been inconsistent, both in the game and from game to game. Our skills have been poor at times. There was a big drop off from the Saints game to the Hawthorn game, and this, more than anything may have been the reason we lost.

We have a young team which is still evolving. I'm not sure what kind of game will be best suited for us just yet. But I would like to see us moving the ball more quickly out of defence and rely less on our ability to absorb pressure in favour of becoming a more attacking side. I would like to see players who are good decision makers with good vision and skills, like Mills, Lloyd, Aliir and Newman spending more time in the midfield. Buddy already spends a good bit of time in the midfield, and he's fantastic at spotting up players in our forward line.

[Nico]

Im sorry but if Longmire needs scathing criticism of Friday's performance to change our game plan then he has to go. Not only was it completely what was expected from the Hawks but the style has beaten us two other times. I think the talent in the group enabled us to keep all 3 games close despite appalling tactics.

I still think we have one of the best lists, yes some pruning is done but there is more than enough talent for top 8 and further if we get on a roll and are injury free.

I would still see what Roosey is up to, if he isn't interested then let's go new school and get young keen coach in. The Bulldogs show it can work and I think a new coach and tactics would get the team bubbling along nicely.

Horse has been great, but the game has passed him and I suspect the players are numb to much he says anymore I have always though Jack Gibson one of the greatest league coaches had it right when he said no more than 2 or 3 years at a club. Maybe one more if your successful. John is starting to undermine a great legacy.

Didn't beat us in the 2012 GF.

[Nico]

Auntie,

I agree that we have to be flexible with our game plan and if something doesn't fit on a given day, then try something else.

We have basically structured our defence to protect quick ball movement through the corridor, because the better teams have been effective in scoring this way. And we too have been trying to develop this kind of a game, although not always with great success. So now we have folks suggesting that we allow the opposition to draw our defence out so we leave the corridor open for attack. This may well work against some teams, but others will cut us apart.

The Bulldogs use their defenders to attack the ball and push it forward, hoping that their pressure will slow the opposition enough on the rebound to allow players to get back and defend. They leak a lot of goals out the back, but overall it seems to work. But it's a game plan that takes a lot of energy and commitment from the whole team. We haven't shown the capacity to play that kind of game.

I think our efforts this year have been inconsistent, both in the game and from game to game. Our skills have been poor at times. There was a big drop off from the Saints game to the Hawthorn game, and this, more than anything may have been the reason we lost.

We have a young team which is still evolving. I'm not sure what kind of game will be best suited for us just yet. But I would like to see us moving the ball more quickly out of defence and rely less on our ability to absorb pressure in favour of becoming a more attacking side. I would like to see players who are good decision makers with good vision and skills, like Mills, Lloyd, Aliir and Newman spending more time in the midfield. Buddy already spends a good bit of time in the midfield, and he's fantastic at spotting up players in our forward line.

I agree on the skills. One thing the Melbourne media got right this week is that we fumbled and bumbled our way through the game, whereas Hawthorn were clean with their hands. We had the footy enough on many occasions in the forward line to punish them, but we butchered the footy.

[barry]

Didn't beat us in the 2012 GF.

Thats it. Hawthorn were majorly annoyed about 2012. They have set themselves against us in every game since. Even 2014 didnt quench their thirst.
Hawthorn hate us much more than we hate them.

[Ludwig]

There is a logic to allowing the perimeter ball while protecting the corridor when you play at a wide short ground like the SCG, because it's only 2 kicks from your own defence through the middle to the forward line. Collingwood and Hawthorn decided that they wouldn't challenge the corridor if the Swans gave them easy possession on the outside. A week earlier, Hawthorn couldn't hit those easy targets for uncontested marks like they did against us. We all know that things like that can change from week to week, even with the same personnel. We did change our game plan in the 2nd half, but ran out of steam in the 4th quarter and toward the end of the game they were able to get the ball at will and we just couldn't chase them down.

It's been disappointing that Hewett was only able to manage 70% game time in a game when it would have gone a long way if could have moved into the 80%+ category. He's been going in the 70s all year, obviously not having the tank to do more, especially with additional stints in the midfield. He will have to improve on this if he wants to take his game to the next level.