Are the lower divisions broken?

[saviour01]

After our game last night in div 4 v ECE, many people I talked to post game were shocked that ECE were in div 3 last year (currently 1 win, 6 losses and percentage of 30). The 3 teams that were promoted from div 4 (none of which won the grand final) are currently sitting in 1st, 2nd and 4th with percentages of 254, 277 and 170.

Similar with the team that dropped from div 4 is sitting in 10th with 2 wins, 4 losses and percentage of 33 and the team that came up is in 3rd with 5-2.

I assume the idea for divisionalisation was to make it an even playing field, but if a couple of last years div 4 teams belong in div 2 and last years div 3 side belongs in div 5, is it really even? Or does a good year bring more people to the club and make the promoted teams even better and the opposite for the demoted teams?

I know who ever gets promoted from div 2 to 1 has traditionally made the finals that year. Granted most of my knowledge is around div 4 and div 1, does this translate to other grades?

Good on ECE for driving across Sydney for a 5.45 game and I'm not having a go at them, but they are getting beat most weeks by big margins after losing every game last year.

[water boy]

After our game last night in div 4 v ECE, many people I talked to post game were shocked that ECE were in div 3 last year (currently 1 win, 6 losses and percentage of 30). The 3 teams that were promoted from div 4 (none of which won the grand final) are currently sitting in 1st, 2nd and 4th with percentages of 254, 277 and 170.

Similar with the team that dropped from div 4 is sitting in 10th with 2 wins, 4 losses and percentage of 33 and the team that came up is in 3rd with 5-2.

I assume the idea for divisionalisation was to make it an even playing field, but if a couple of last years div 4 teams belong in div 2 and last years div 3 side belongs in div 5, is it really even? Or does a good year bring more people to the club and make the promoted teams even better and the opposite for the demoted teams?

I know who ever gets promoted from div 2 to 1 has traditionally made the finals that year. Granted most of my knowledge is around div 4 and div 1, does this translate to other grades?

Good on ECE for driving across Sydney for a 5.45 game and I'm not having a go at them, but they are getting beat most weeks by big margins after losing every game last year.

Also good to see some cats guys who didn't get a game in div 5 went over to help east coast with numbers


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[redsox]

I think there needs to be something like a round 4 regrade going on. I know it must be hard to get the fixture sorted out but there are some serious anomalies going on.

The St George Div 4 team stands out as being graded far too low and everyone would benefit from them going up at least one grade...it is so far ahead of Div 4 that i would not be surprised if there are a lot of forfeits at the back end of the year with teams not being bothered to go to Olds for a flogging. i know you have justified the grading before but surely it would be more fun if there was a contest each week rather than consistent hollow wins in walk overs. Div 4 could be quite an even contest for about 6 teams otherwise.

u also correctly highlight that some teams end up in the wrong grade for other reasons. there is often retirements after premierships and clubs no longer have the depth to compete in the next level up. A regrading at the end of April whilst a Rep round is played is my suggestion

[The Runner]

Re-grading after 4-5 weeks would fix a lot of the issues. Teams in the lower grades can fluctuate on a weekly basis, let alone annually.
There should also be an acceptance of smaller divisions (5-6 teams). The Women's comp is a great example. Division 1 has 3 teams on a % above 500 and 3 below 20...

Only people put out by this is Sydney AFL having to re-fixture. But they are only reactive and restrict themselves to guidelines and policy.

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And I think it's unfair to lob grenades at St George Div 4. They missed finals last year. Most teams ahead of them got promoted except for the actual Premiers, who despite a 100 point loss on the weekend, will likely feature in the last weekend again this year..

[saviour01]

Re-grading after 4-5 weeks would fix a lot of the issues. Teams in the lower grades can fluctuate on a weekly basis, let alone annually.
There should also be an acceptance of smaller divisions (5-6 teams). The Women's comp is a great example. Division 1 has 3 teams on a % above 500 and 3 below 20...

Only people put out by this is Sydney AFL having to re-fixture. But they are only reactive and restrict themselves to guidelines and policy.

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And I think it's unfair to lob grenades at St George Div 4. They missed finals last year. Most teams ahead of them got promoted except for the actual Premiers, who despite a 100 point loss on the weekend, will likely feature in the last weekend again this year..

I agree about the regrade. Every other comp I've been involved in does it. Seems like Sydney AFL want divisionalisation but don't want to commit fully. Why do it half arsed? Teams are still being flogged or winning by heaps like in the old system, yet the draw isn't as good with that home and away structure. Pick what you want to do and commit to it because having this middle ground which stretches volunteers and still has floggings doesn't really help anyone.

St George div 4 cops it because I am captain/coach and do most of the sledging. Like you said, we missed finals last year, the premiers didn't go up but the 3 who did are 1st, 2nd and 4th. We just have really good depth at the moment as shown by our div 1, u19s1 and div 4 all being undefeated. The other week we had a backline who had all played div 1 or prems last year.

Wynny really has to be congratulated with our academy, bearing fruits at the moment. But again, as you said, come finals time the uni's will turn into superstars and it will be like div1/div2 sides playing against each other.

[5yearplan]

Also good to see some cats guys who didn't get a game in div 5 went over to help east coast with numbers


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Great to see clubs actually helping other clubs. Would of been a hard stretch to get up for the game and least by having support forfeits can be avoided too.

[CKunde]

Re-grading after 4-5 weeks would fix a lot of the issues. Teams in the lower grades can fluctuate on a weekly basis, let alone annually.
There should also be an acceptance of smaller divisions (5-6 teams). The Women's comp is a great example. Division 1 has 3 teams on a % above 500 and 3 below 20...

Women's Division 2 should have happened this year, but I don't think it should have been a smaller comp. The sides currently 5th-14th in Division One would make their own division really well and it would be a relatively even comp. The sides 1-4 should have either had a 6 side division one comp with the bottom 2 Premier Division sides or just made Premier Division 12 teams.

Having said that, there are a multitude of competing interests the league needs to negotiate that dramatically effects the equilisation of the competitions. UNSW and USyd are miles ahead of everyone else, which hopefully a points system will rectify in future. Wollongong shouldn't be in Division One, but were clearly unwilling to persist in Premier Division. It's all well and good for me to say 'should have been different' in Round 7, but I don't think it's easy for the league to predict this stuff early.

Plus, with only two women's divisions, it's pretty hard for them to do much to change the structure on the run, if at all. Consider Newtown, teams in both divisions but currently not doing too great in either. There is no lower division for their Div One side to drop back to, and their Premier Division side would destroy the best Div One sides.

Surely a player points system is the way to go in all divisions going forward. If a club gets blessed with a few freaks new to footy, congrats to them. But otherwise things would be a lot more equal. Harder to manage each week for the volunteers in clubland, but more equal.

[redsox]

don't think i am lobbing grenades. As a player from a team that had a 9am kick off at olds and got pumped it isnt any fun and i am predicting future forfeits. I wish we were good enough to compete but we wont be able to.

Surely St George players would prefer a competitive game every week rather than forfeits or circle work against weaker sides. And it comes and goes....if 10 St George players go traveling next year and they lose their depth then a round 4 regrade has them in the right grade rather than getting flogged.

i think all responders are in agreeance that a regrade option would make the comp better for all except the administrators.

Even the AFL is looking at ways of having a redraw for the back end of the season to reduce the number of blow out games that dont mean anything

And i agree that womens comp should be broken up into multiple grades. need to keep players and clubs involved and grow this section of the game. too many mismatches

[Mug Punter]

Re-grading after 4-5 weeks would fix a lot of the issues. Teams in the lower grades can fluctuate on a weekly basis, let alone annually.
There should also be an acceptance of smaller divisions (5-6 teams). The Women's comp is a great example. Division 1 has 3 teams on a % above 500 and 3 below 20...

Only people put out by this is Sydney AFL having to re-fixture. But they are only reactive and restrict themselves to guidelines and policy.

- - - Updated - - -

And I think it's unfair to lob grenades at St George Div 4. They missed finals last year. Most teams ahead of them got promoted except for the actual Premiers, who despite a 100 point loss on the weekend, will likely feature in the last weekend again this year..

It's completely and totally impossible for this to happen on a practical level and that's before even taking into account the NSWAFL incompetence. Fpr starters many venues need to be booked in advance. Imagine the logistics of Sydney Uni with these six teams suddenly having to arrange new grounds, advise players etc.

As far as I know we are the only comp in the nation that operates our divisional structure on the scale we do - the ACTAFL have divisionalisation but the QAFL do not.

Surely the answer is back to the first grade/reserve grade club model with promotion and relegation based on the first grade results

[Norris Lurker]

Unfortunately any system that seeds teams according to last year's results can't take into account changes in numbers and strength that happens during the off-season. St George didn't make the finals in Div 4 last year, so no way were they going to go up unless there's some form of seeding based on early rounds in the current season.
Seeding during the current season would be a logistical nightmare; but may be worth a try in future years. Although some clubs could potentially find a way of manipulating it to their advantage........

[Tom Wills]

In response the Questions "Are the lower divisions broken?" - the answer is a resounding NO.
IMO overall the games in Divisions 2 to 5 have been relatively close. Though we have some issues

1. St George shouldn't be in Division 4 - let them win the flag and be promoted to Division 3 next year. Division 4 will then be fixed with normal relegation and promotion of bottom teams at the end of the season
2. We need a Division 6 - when clubs like North Shore, St George, Penno, Syd Uni etc have been 10 and 20 players missing out on a game their bottom team ends up being fairly good - not your traditional Div 3 of 10 years past where you are ring around on Friday night to get a team together. We need a Division 6 for the true "shxt kickers". The bottom 3 in Div 4 and the bottom 4 in Div 5 would fit nicely in a Div 6 structure.

This year we saw a bit more radical promotion / relegation with 3 teams going up from Division 4 - I am sure another year more radical promotion and relegation will see a truly even comp in 2018.

[mrns]

North Shore's D5 team has held 3 teams goalless so far this season and would love to have a crack at D4. Not sure why SydneyAFL didn't let the club's D2 move to D1 and let us enter a new D3 team instead of moving the D4 up to D3. as the D2,3,5 collectively have 2 losses so far this season