Rnd 15 Pre-Match Thread, vs St Kilda

[Cosmic Wizard]

OK, here we go:

Team Outs : Coaching: Longmire, can never see a veteran is past it and keeps playing them over younger players
: Jake Lloyd; if he didn't take a few kick in, would he have had zero possessions? Really drop off a cliff
: COR, love the guy, but he isn't an AFL players, too many mistakes and missed tackles: give Fox an extended period
: Wicks: he stood still but didn't see the Port players moving into space too mark around him, too many mistakes and missed tackles

Team In : Amartey, played really well against Melbourne, but was dropped
: Fox, he can play, we don't use him, why
: Stephens, why not, he must be hungry.
: Gould, for gods sake, give him a go! didn't we trade up to get him! He would be better than Lloyd

A few other points: Ramps is loosen his pace: we need to start planning for life after him, Lloyd and Cunningham.

[Markwebbos]

I think Hickey obviously comes in for Ladhams.

I’d love to see Amartey back in but not sure at whose expense?

Ditto Gould surely gets a game soon, but would they drop Rampe?

Wicks out too. ABB (anyone but Bell) to come in

[Roadrunner]

OK, here we go:

Team Outs : Coaching: Longmire, can never see a veteran is past it and keeps playing them over younger players
: Jake Lloyd; if he didn't take a few kick in, would he have had zero possessions? Really drop off a cliff
: COR, love the guy, but he isn't an AFL players, too many mistakes and missed tackles: give Fox an extended period
: Wicks: he stood still but didn't see the Port players moving into space too mark around him, too many mistakes and missed tackles

Team In : Amartey, played really well against Melbourne, but was dropped
: Fox, he can play, we don't use him, why
: Stephens, why not, he must be hungry.
: Gould, for gods sake, give him a go! didn't we trade up to get him! He would be better than Lloyd

A few other points: Ramps is loosen his pace: we need to start planning for life after him, Lloyd and Cunningham.

Is big Tom ready to come back? Still would like Amartey in as well!

[wolftone57]

Is big Tom ready to come back? Still would like Amartey in as well!

I have made the forward line very tall. But I want Bud to play wing/HF. Amartey to come in & play FF but lead up to the ball. That was what the reserves did very well. Kicking it in low and flat to a lead. The Townies had no solution. We need to lose the bombing into our forward line. Try hitting up players.

I want some things to happen. Our forwards bunch up but do not spread. They all compete for the same ball like kick to kick. Instead I would like to see forwards spreading to make space for a leading player. Will Hayward, if you go into the path of a leading Amartey again you go to Syberia for life. How many times has Amartey been spoiled by our own. We are our own worst enemy both forward and back. All up none down. Even bloody Papley up on the weekend. These players need to work out where they are going to lead and the others need to know through signals. Bud, Amartey, Mcdonald, Heeney & Will, you idiot.

We DO NOT Want Mills having to be a bandaid in defence. We need a player who can fill that role. Hello Will Gould. It's time Longmire. Give that boy a job and he will do it. Great work rate. Very good awareness. Has been organising a makeshift VFL backline all season. Give him a break Horse. Robby needs to come in. Ladhams stays in the reserves after his holiday. He was not just undisciplined, he was stupid to get sucked in by the Filthy Mouthed Port players.

Ins: Hickey, Amartey, Hall-Khan. Fox, Gould

Out: Ladhams, COR, Wicks, Lloyd, Ollie

Hall-Khan can play wing/HF swapping with Bud.

Lloyd has already left the building and is somewhere in Victoria, psychologically. There has been a rumour circulating that he wants out. Wants to go home. He needs to wake up and stop giving up 1-2 goals/ game. COR provides very little pressure. Wicks did nothing, hasn't for weeks. Ollie the,​same.​Although he is not a back. He played on the wing on the weekend though and he was absolutely killed by his opponent.

We need to send a message. You don't get gifted games at Swans. There are too many players who think their name is automatically on the gameday board. Time to send a message. If Horse does not do this after last week's dreadful performance then he is as weak as piss. I got the @@@@s with him making excuses ie;
5-2 in the last two months, they have been playing some really good footy. Crap. I have seen their games, scrappy is the word. Last weeks game was not a good game. I know, I was there. It was a scrappy affair. Players on both sides gave the ball up far too easily under very little pressure. The disposal was woeful. If they had delivered well in that third quarter they would have had a 10 goal won. Their bombing it up every time worked against prolific scoring just like I predicted. But we did exactly the same when we were making a comeback in the last. You'd think our coaches might learn something by the mistakes their opponents made. Obviously not.

Speaking of coaches. The so called experts in the coaching box have to get 2 things right this week.

1. Selection
3. Game plan.

If our game plan consists of bombing the ball in, with no real pack mark or too many of our players flying, then we will not win another game this season. Because opposition is ready and waiting to clear quickly. Papley, who has had a really interrupted season is match fit but struggling. I think it is a bit stupid to put him as the only player forward of centre anyway. He needs to feed off a tall. When McLean or Amartey​ are there he gets to do that. But he was on a much taller opponent, sometimes two, our blokes just bombed it above his head anyway. STUPID. We need to have leading players like the reserves did on the weekend.

Our coaches also need to react faster when the opposition gets control of the game to wrestle it back. When Port were killing us in the stoppages their solution was move Mills back. He came off the bench. Not get him into the mids. You win the ball at the coalface you win the game. We can't continue to rely on our backs and bandaid to win games for us. We need to win contested possession. For that to happen we need to man up at all stoppages. No more leaving a nice free opposition player on their defensive side. They won the stoppages and that free player was incredibly damaging. We have done this all year and it is a huge bummer. It just does not work and every team we play gets really excited when they see they have a free player.



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[KSAS]

: Gould, for gods sake, give him a go! didn't we trade up to get him! He would be better than Lloyd

A few other points: Ramps is loosen his pace: we need to start planning for life after him, Lloyd and Cunningham.

As I'd posted in another thread, I see Gould as Rampe's eventual replacement. May only get game if they decide to rest Rampe as Paddy's successful AFL resurrection has also been a stumbling block for him. Hearten to hear his good form in the reserves continues and confident he'll make it to senior level.

Don't think we have small defender replacements ready as yet for Lloyd & Cunningham as that is a fairly specialised role. Campbell is seen as future mid and seems only played down back to hone his defensive skills (similar to Mills). Unless players like Wicks or Ronke can be re-programmed to play that role in future? (just throwing it out there).

Can only see Amartey replacing either Reid or McDonald who neither are unlikely to be dropped this week, even though McDonald had a quieter game and Reid still played confidently. Hicks is likely to replace Ladhams.

This was by far our most disappointing performance of the season and costly in a tight top 8, which is why it stung the most for me. Could make many cases for wholesale changes this week, so interesting to see how selectors view Saturday's performance after coming off cursed bye.

We now face a equally desperate St.Kilda. It would be ironic if by chance selectors promote HHK as the Saints unsuccessfully tried to net him as a NGA.

[Ludwig]

Don't think we have small defender replacements ready as yet for Lloyd & Cunningham as that is a fairly specialised role.

It's hard to judge Cunningham after his first game back and coming into a generally poor performing side. He was okay before his injury.

Although improved as a defender, Lloyd has really played a sweeper role over the years, a role which has slowly disappeared from our defensive setup. Our defensive structure has evolved, and not necessarily for the better and Lloyd doesn't seem to function well in the new setup. Lloyd doesn't have to play in defence. He can find another role in the team. He did start out as a midfielder, mostly playing outside the contest.

We have a fair bit of depth with medium to small defenders if we include both COR and Fox in the mix. I would give either or both of them time to work into our defence, which is not functioning well this year anyway, so why not try a few changes. Florent is another who seems to play better in defence than in the midfield. He can play as a small defender.

Gould can come in to either replace Rampe or play along with Rampe, who shouldn't be playing as a key defender anyway. He's been beaten badly all year in that role. I don't know why we played him on Marshall. It was and obvious mismatch.

I like the McCartins as our key defenders, Blakey as a tall rebounder, and either Cunningham or Florent as small defender,s. I prefer JMac on the wing in the midfield. The rest can be filled out with Rampe, COR, Fox, Gould and Lloyd. I'm happy to experiment a bit as we need to improve and the current system isn't working.

I wouldn't be worrying about our ladder position. Let's get the structure right and the players putting in more consistent performances. The ladder will take care of itself.

[i'm-uninformed2]

It's hard to judge Cunningham after his first game back and coming into a generally poor performing side. He was okay before his injury.

Although improved as a defender, Lloyd has really played a sweeper role over the years, a role which has slowly disappeared from our defensive setup. Our defensive structure has evolved, and not necessarily for the better and Lloyd doesn't seem to function well in the new setup. Lloyd doesn't have to play in defence. He can find another role in the team. He did start out as a midfielder, mostly playing outside the contest.

We have a fair bit of depth with medium to small defenders if we include both COR and Fox in the mix. I would give either or both of them time to work into our defence, which is not functioning well this year anyway, so why not try a few changes. Florent is another who seems to play better in defence than in the midfield. He can play as a small defender.

Gould can come in to either replace Rampe or play along with Rampe, who shouldn't be playing as a key defender anyway. He's been beaten badly all year in that role. I don't know why we played him on Marshall. It was and obvious mismatch.

I like the McCartins as our key defenders, Blakey as a tall rebounder, and either Cunningham or Florent as small defender,s. I prefer JMac on the wing in the midfield. The rest can be filled out with Rampe, COR, Fox, Gould and Lloyd. I'm happy to experiment a bit as we need to improve and the current system isn't working.

I wouldn't be worrying about our ladder position. Let's get the structure right and the players putting in more consistent performances. The ladder will take care of itself.

I'm not disagreeing on Rampe's performance, but I think the reason he is still being asked to play on tall defenders is they like to place P McCartin on a less threatening option so he can float, mark and release kick more.

[SwanSand]

I'm not disagreeing on Rampe's performance, but I think the reason he is still being asked to play on tall defenders is they like to place P McCartin on a less threatening option so he can float, mark and release kick more.

Most teams this year have struggled with stopping momentum and we have been very consistently inconsistent in this aspect. I think it has to do with our midfield and how well they create numbers in our defensive half when the opposition get their hands on the footy. We need players like Gulden and JMac the ones who are blessed with endurance to come and help out as well as Mills for the obvious reasons. The moment it is one on one we struggle which is so different than our bygone era. The way we play at the back, we don’t want Paddy to play on a talls. And Rampe is up and down with how he plays the talls depending on the pressure on the kicker in the midfield.
Wicks is the extra number in the midfield and pressure tackler in the forward half and he seems to not bring this at all to the table through this year. If the pressure on halfbacks is not good we get exposed in defensive half due to how fast it comes there. I reckon we get our selections and our pressure player composition right we would be fine.
Essendon stopped Jack sinclair and Brad Hill well and they got their pressure in the midfield right. Saints are a quality side all across the park with the 3 m marking Max King. If we let them kick to his advantage he may kick a bag on us. And so will Paddy Ryder
Out - Ladhams, Wicks, C Oriordan
In - Hickey, Ronke, Fox

[Ludwig]

Most teams this year have struggled with stopping momentum and we have been very consistently inconsistent in this aspect. I think it has to do with our midfield and how well they create numbers in our defensive half when the opposition get their hands on the footy. We need players like Gulden and JMac the ones who are blessed with endurance to come and help out as well as Mills for the obvious reasons. The moment it is one on one we struggle which is so different than our bygone era. The way we play at the back, we don’t want Paddy to play on a talls. And Rampe is up and down with how he plays the talls depending on the pressure on the kicker in the midfield.
Wicks is the extra number in the midfield and pressure tackler in the forward half and he seems to not bring this at all to the table through this year. If the pressure on halfbacks is not good we get exposed in defensive half due to how fast it comes there. I reckon we get our selections and our pressure player composition right we would be fine.
Essendon stopped Jack sinclair and Brad Hill well and they got their pressure in the midfield right. Saints are a quality side all across the park with the 3 m marking Max King. If we let them kick to his advantage he may kick a bag on us. And so will Paddy Ryder
Out - Ladhams, Wicks, C Oriordan
In - Hickey, Ronke, Fox

Very astute comments. There's a crescendo effect that follows from not stopping the opposition halfbacks. Once the play goes on for awhile they drift forward and find space just inside our defensive zone and create scoring opportunities. So we need to work on shutting down these type of players, as you have noted that Essendon did on Hill and Sinclair.

Your remarks on the midfielders helping out in defence is also something we need to work on. We are having so many problems once the ball hits the ground. We seem to be second to the ball too often and the opposition always have loose players around to shark the ball and snap a goal. Rowbottom, Warner and Gulden all need to do more in our defensive zone. I think it has more to do with training and experience than ability. Even though I've recommended moving Lloyd out of defence, he does a lot to clean up the mess for us. Perhaps we should look to making Ollie a permanent part of the defence with a look toward building a synergy down the road, Blood Fever might agree with this one too.

I think Paddy needs to play a true KPD role. Rampe can't handle it. Maybe Tom goes to King an Paddy take the resting ruckman, a tall task for both. Rampe should go one on one with Membrey, who has a big tank and will run him up and down the ground. I don't know how Gould would go in this sort of a setup. He could try to play the role that Mills has been filling in when things go sour.

[gloveski]

I'm not disagreeing on Rampe's performance, but I think the reason he is still being asked to play on tall defenders is they like to place P McCartin on a less threatening option so he can float, mark and release kick more.

Definitely looks like this and this may be the reason Gould is not getting games as Paddy is playing a very similar role to him .


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[wolftone57]

Definitely looks like this and this may be the reason Gould is not getting games as Paddy is playing a very similar role to him .


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Gould, while he intercepts, has been playing FB and playing it well. He is very tight. He is not a flashy player so what he does goes mostly unnoticed. He has very good game sense which allows him to read the play better than most of his opponents. He plays a different role to Paddy. I would like Paddy to play more like Gould. Still intercept, ie players like Taylor & Harris-Andrews but play more their role.

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[wolftone57]

I'm not disagreeing on Rampe's performance, but I think the reason he is still being asked to play on tall defenders is they like to place P McCartin on a less threatening option so he can float, mark and release kick more.

Paddy played on a small opponent on the weekend. When the ball was overhead Paddy won easily. But when the ball hit the ground he got killed. The other thing is when he went up in the pack, his opponent was at ground level getting the crumbs. This is not working. He needs to play tall all the time, not just as an interceptor.

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