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Thread: Midaro's List Analysis (1-20)

  1. #1
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    Midaro's List Analysis (1-20)

    ...just because I like thinking about these things.

    First, some definitions...

    Career Status:
    Elite - A player who is desired by all teams.
    Excellent - A player who would get a game in all teams.
    Good - A player who would get a game in most teams.
    Fair - A player who would be on the periphery of selection in most teams.
    Poor - A player who struggles at AFL level.
    Unknown - A player who has not been tried sufficiently at AFL level.

    Trade Status:
    Indispensable - A player who is simply too valuable to our team for us to ever consider trading.
    Undervalued - A player who would probably not attract trade value equivalent to his worth.
    Valueless - A player who would have no/little value to another club. Either a fair/poor or young/aging, player.
    Tradeable - A player who could attract trade value comparable to his worth, and who's absence would not severely hamper our team.

    Now, on to the list...

    1. Barry Hall
    Career Status: Elite
    Trade Status: Indispensable
    One of the best key forwards in the competition. At 27 he has entered his prime, and will most likely be our MVP for the next few years. Given his frame, he could quite possibly extend his career into his mid-30s, if he's prepared to put on another few kgs and stand in the goal-square. At the moment, I'm choosing to ignore rumours of a desire for a boxing career.

    2. Nick Davis
    Career Status: Excellent
    Trade Status: Indispensable
    He has been limited by injury this year, but is still as good a kick for goal as anyone in the league. Given the trouble caused to get him here, he's not going anywhere. The real question with Davis is: will he ever have the fitness/application to become a regular midfield contributor?

    3. Jarrad McVeigh
    Career Status: Unknown
    Trade Status: Indispensable
    We've seen far too little of Jarrod to confidently judge his ability. Yes, there have been glimpses of sheer class, but there's also been Fosdike/McPherson-esque absence of presence. Still, another pre-season in the weight room and he should be a starting 18 player in Round 1 next year. He was a No. 5 draft pick and we've put the development in, so no way is he going anywhere (take not Bomber supporters ).

    4. Ben Mathews
    Career Status: Fair
    Trade Status: Valueless
    Gets a bit of the ball, but mostly as soft receives in his role as backline sweeper/wingman. His disposal is infrequently damaging. Mathews is the kind of player that every team in the league has a couple of - hence he has no real trade value. Given the shallowness of our midfield he will certainly be retained this year, however, I would not be surprised if he was a candidate for delisting c.2006.

    5.Ryan O'Keefe
    Career Status: Good
    Trade Status: Tradeable
    O'Keefe has been an effective half-forward all year and compensated for Davis, Schneider and O'Loughlin, during their absences. The reason I have listed him as tradeable, is that our middle sized forwards are about the only group where we could afford to sacrifice the degree of talent needed to attract the quality midfielder we are desperate for. Still, O'Keefe is getting better all the time, and it would be dangerous to let him go while his potential is still unknown.

    6. Craig Bolton
    Career Status: Good
    Trade Status: Undervalued
    The perfect 'third tall defender' and natural run-with option for midfielder/forwards (eg. Hird, Buckley, N Brown). Bolton would never attract his worth in a trade, but is an important player in our team. His only danger is being victimised, like Saddington was, if he is forced to play on opposition key forwards in the absence of Schauble/Goodes/Barry/(yet unnamed KPP backman).

    7. Josh Willoughby
    Career Status: Unknown
    Trade Status: Valueless
    Yet to debut. First year - must be retained on the senior list.

    9. Ben Fixter
    Career Status: Unknown
    Trade Status: Valueless
    He's played 27 games in 4 years. Some may have good 'feelings' about him - and yes, he has looked hard at it when he has played - but the fact is that no-one can be certain of his abilities. He will more than likely be retained for next year - but IMO it will be his last chance.

    10. Paul Williams
    Career Status: Good
    Trade Status: Valueless
    He's a class player, but has been troubled with injury all year and is aging. I would expect that he will be keen to maximise the length of his career given prior money troubles, so he'll probably gradually move to a flank/pocket over the next couple of years. No other team is going to go after him at his age, and if he wanted to go back to Melbourne for any reason, we'd get no more than a token pick for him.

    11. Stuart Maxfield
    Career Status: Fair
    Trade Status: Valueless
    I was surprised the Swans were so quick to sign him up for another year - I thought he'd retire. Anyway, he's obviously on the downward slope now, and I'd be very surprised if he was still in the team this time next year. His saving grace is that he still hard at the ball, but he too often goes missing. Hopefully, he'll relinquish the captaincy over the summer to avoid any potentially nasty mid-season retirement.

    12. Nic Fosdike
    Career Status: Fair
    Trade Status: Tradeable
    Young and experienced, but simply not that good. As an outside midfielder he doesn't get enough of the ball, or kick enough goals. He seems to be at least known outside Sydney, which gives him more tradeability than Mathews for example (No.4 incident aside). Still, I just can't see us getting much for him.

    13. Adam Schneider
    Career Status: Good
    Trade Status: Indispensable
    A young gun and potential saviour of the midfield (hamstrings aside). He's not going anywhere.

    15. Stephen Doyle
    Career Status: Fair
    Trade Status: Indispensable
    Doyle may be struggling to find the talent he showed as a rookie, but he's a required player. Ball is 50/50 to play on next year and even if we go after a ruckman during the trade period, we need two of them. IMO Doyle needs to spend more time on the ground, but that's not likely at this time of year.

    17. Tadhg Kennelly
    Career Status: Good
    Trade Status: Indispensable
    I really thought Kennelly would be playing up on the wing by now. I'd like him closer to goal, but I guess the rebound is still essential. I doubt that he would ever be traded - he might even go home instead (although that's increasing unlikely).

    18. Heath James
    Career Status: Unknown
    Trade Status: Valueless
    18 games in 5 years. Like Ben Fixter, we just haven't seen enough of James to speak intelligently about his abilities. However, I doubt he'll ever make a backman, given that from everything I've seen of him, he can't work below his knees. It would be unpopular, (and just suggesting it will no doubt outrage some) but don't be surprised if James is delisted at the end of this year.

    19. Michael O'Loughlin
    Career Status: Excellent
    Trade Status: Tradeable
    A long-term star, who's injuries have been frustrating. Any dreams of him playing anywhere but the goal-square have long since passed. It would be absolutely ballsy to trade him, but its the same as for O'Keefe - if we have to give up quality to get quality, its a middle sized forward that must be sacrificed. As Micky is a South Australian, wouldn't any number of Ports or Adelaide's classy midfielders add more to our team than Micky? The answer is, I don't know.

    20. Luke Ablett
    Career Status: Poor
    Trade Status: Valueless
    Overall he's struggles at senior level, and even the Ablett name wouldn't attract much at the trade table. However, a couple of fair games have probably removed his head from the chopping block for this year. He'd want to improve in 2005 or he won't see 2006.


    EDIT: Link to Part II - http://redandwhiteonline.com/forum/s...&threadid=6419
    Last edited by midaro; 25th August 2004 at 03:13 PM.

  2. #2
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    The really strange thing I discovered while making this list, is how difficult it may be to free up the mandatory 3 places on the senior list.
    Here's a game for you all to play...

    Undelistable

    [+21] Hall, Kennelly, Davis, O'Loughlin, McVeigh, Barry, O'Keefe, Saddington, C Bolton, J Bolton, Williams, Schauble, Maxfield, Crouch, Schneider, Kirk, Doyle, Goodes, Mathews, Fosdike, Buchanan


    Last Years Recruits - These guys are still under their original 2 year contracts

    [+4] Ericksen, M Davis, Schmidt, Willoughby


    Recent Recruits - It would be ridiculous to delist these developing guys, wouldn't it?

    [+5] Dempster, Powell, Roberts-Thompson, Thewlis, Mieklejohn


    Possible Retirements

    [+1] Ball - Possible, but I think most of us hope he doesn't retire.


    Is it time to bite the bullet? - Unpopular, but it might be necessary.

    [+1] Fixter
    [+1] James
    [+1] Malceski
    [+1] Sundqvist


    Have they done enough? - These guys have been mentioned as delisting candidates in the past, but are also considered by some to have redeemed themselves.

    [+1] Nicks
    [+1] Ablett


    Certain Delistings

    [-1] Warfe - Certain to be delisted


    Rookie List

    [+1] Bevan - Certain to be promoted to the Senior List.
    [0] Taylor - Possibly will be retained as a rookie, if there is room.
    [0] Potter - Possibly will be retained as a rookie, if there is room.
    [0] Rogers - Possibly will be retained as a rookie, if there is room.
    [0] Hunt - Possibly will be retained as a rookie, if there is room.
    [0] McGlone - Some would argue that he deserves to be promoted, but if there is no room, will he try elsewhere?

    Total:
    [38]

    There are 38 spaces on the Senior List. Given Warfe will be delisted [-1] and Bevan promoted from the rookie list [+1] we currently have a full complement.
    At the time of the Draft we can have only 35 players, so who goes? Or is trading the answer?

  3. #3
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    Trade Fosdike, Hunt, Warfe and Sunqvist, if no trade is available for Fosdike keep him, but inform him he is playing for his career.Sunqvist to the rookie list if possible.Warfe and Hunt to go.Ball may go.

    If we pick up M McVeigh and Koskitzke ( I can hope) We will still have to let others go.

    Powell?

  4. #4
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    Delisting Hunt doesn't help - he's a rookie.

  5. #5
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    I'm aware of that, but it would free up the rookie list to maybe put Sunqvist there. It is uncertain how to manage this, but I'm confident we have the crap players to do it.

  6. #6
    I can see your reasoning for nominating O'Keefe for a possible trade but I definitely don't agree.
    The bloke is tearing apart backlines this year and is deadly in front of goal and with his delivery.
    As far as skills go he is one of teh most talented in the club.
    We would be mad if we even considered trading him.
    "As everyone knows our style of football is defensive and unattractive, and as such I have completely forgotten how to mark or kick over the years" - Brett Kirk

  7. #7
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    Mathews - valueless??? Delisted in 2006???

    You have to be kidding!

    Have a look at the stats sheets. Why would we get rid of oneof our top possession getters? And don't say that they are all ineffective, you can't have that many week in week out and have high ineffective numbers.

    Whatever you're on, I'll take a pound.

  8. #8
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    I think you have been to harsh on Matthews.

    I would rate O'Keefe as Indispensible. He has had a superb year and will only get better. I would be very angry with the club if they traded him. He's also damn sexy with one of the the hottest bubble butts I've ever seen!

  9. #9
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    Mathews will be in the top half dozen or so in the club B&F this year. As he was last year. And the year before. And probably next year as well.

    He's not flash but he's solid as a rock, almost never injured, courageous and capable of flashing up as a matchwinner now and again.

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by Tilt
    Mathews - valueless??? Delisted in 2006???

    You have to be kidding!

    Have a look at the stats sheets. Why would we get rid of oneof our top possession getters? And don't say that they are all ineffective, you can't have that many week in week out and have high ineffective numbers.

    Whatever you're on, I'll take a pound.
    I stand by that.
    Look at the definitions I posted at the top of the thread and IMO
    (obviously) it's accurate.

    1. Career Status: Fair - "He would be on the periphery of selection in most teams". Disgree? IMO he wouldn't get a game in most teams with an average or better midfield - would he? In most other teams he'd be the 4th or 5th midfielder - like he is at the Swans (and our midfield is very much below average).

    2. Trade status: Valueless - "He would have no/little value to another club". Disagree? Can you imagine any team going after Mathews? If we reckon Mark McVeigh is worth about a 2nd Round Pick, what do you really think Mathews would attract? 4th, maybe 3rd? That's as close to nothing as makes no difference.

    Mathews role is as an unaccountable receiver, and yes, his disposal is mediocre. Numerous players could get his number of possessions if played in his role. IMO he'll find himself out of the team next year with the likes of McVeigh, Bevan, Buchannon and Schneider, surplanting him in the midfield.

    Actually, if you extrapolate the likely development of our youngsters over the summer, in order to name our best 22 in Round 1 2005, I think he'd already be out of the team

  11. #11
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    Classic.

    I agree with Midaro that O'Keefe (Or Mathews) would be good trade bait but, of course, no one wants to give up anything to get a quality player in. It seems everyone wants to give away only a 2nd round pick to get someone else in or Fosdike or Warfe, what rubbish.

    And of course, I suppose since I would be happy to see O'Keefe traded fairly means I do not like them - that is wrong, he is a fantastic player and extremley useful in our side BUT is tradable and would have great value to another team.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by Wil
    ... of course, no one wants to give up anything to get a quality player in. It seems everyone wants to give away only a 2nd round pick to get someone else in or Fosdike or Warfe, what rubbish.
    Exactly, we're not going to get the quality midfielder we are desperate for, if we're not prepared to give up some quality - and the one (only) area we have a surplus of quality is medium forwards.

    That means O'Keefe or O'Loughlin (no-one would touch Davis).

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