#AFL Round 6 Swans v Giants Sat 27-Apr at SCG #AFLSwansGiants @sydneyswans

[111431]

Thanks for pointing out 2 of the statistical anomalies out of the 1000's of AFL players to pull on the boots in the last 30 years, it has no relevance whatsoever. The 4 listed are all at the tale end of their careers form wise, and Smith aside have been susceptible to injury over the last few years. None of them are going to play until they're 36.

I don't believe in cutting players just because they are old, but if there is a choice between offloading a capable player in their mid 20's and one in their 30's, then its obvious which one should be prioritised, particularly when we already have a dearth of players in that middle age bracket.

Without getting into a debate about the specifics of who was cut/traded and who was retained (as its pointless on this board), I was simply pointing out that TBC's suggestion that we should've cut middle age players before the veterans doesn't make any sense whatsoever

If those 'middle age' players were of value and offered more than the older players i would agree. I think us supporters have little real insight into what goes on inside the player development and list management so we all make judgements with the benefit of hindsight - unfortunately those who make the real decisions don't have that luxury

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I think we are rebuilding. Over the last few years we have traded out 25-30 year olds who would be peaking right now. Maybe not winning flags, but being competitive.

A serious slide will test the resilience of the Sydney market, and without COLA it might take a miracle to avoid being a carlton long term celler dweller.

'we'll all be ruined said Hanrahan'

[Mr Magoo]

Just read the previous five pages of hysteria blaming all sorts of things for our fall from grace but my view is the following are reasons for our current form :
1. We dont have any of Grundy, Smith , McVeigh in the backline to organise the defence when it gets tough. From my cheap seats near the randwick end , GWS were a noticeably better organised defensive unit - along the lines of the swans a few years back.
2. Our forward line relies on Franklin - Reid is still a second or third tall for me. We have very few reliable goalkickers and on saturday we had two first year players in that forward line against a very well seasoned GWS backline. It needs time for these guys to get used to the organised defences that block. The forward line would look much better if Buddy , Menzel and Reid were all there and we were able to leave Papley as a permanent forward (where I think he is far more effective).
3. There are a number of players not going to the next level that we might have expected . Not sure whether its injury, coming back from injury or whatever but the coaching staff in planning this season Im sure would have anticipated Hewitt, Heeney and Mills becoming our next level of midfielder to support Kennedy and Parker. While they have provided glimpses of it , the midfield still hasnt consistently gelled for 4 quarters in my opinion. While Jones has probably stepped up in his attack on the ball , his disposal leaves a lot to be desired and his vision is not great.
4. We couldn't have anticipated that Naismith would have reinjured himself.
5. Clarke and Thurlow have added little and have not balanced those we have lost
6. The things that are hurting us such as our turnovers through the middle are indicative of a team down on confidence and lacking cohesiveness much of which could be attributed to the points above. Its a pretty new team for all intensive purposes , propped up by a few veterans who at the moment are down on form themselves. This is probably because as an opposition you can focus on shutting them down and you pretty much win. If I was looking at the swans at the moment, provided I kept on top of Kennedy and Parker , I would be pretty confident that the lack of consistent effectiveness of others will therefore not hurt me.

[barry]

Fair summary Mr Magoo. I think what is obvious is that there is a fine line from maintaining a strong team, and becoming a weaker team (and vice versa). A couple of bad decisions in a row is all it takes.

That is why we must thoroughly analyse every decision the club makes, and not just trust blind faith, because those decisions can easily be the undoing.

[Hotpotato]

They need to notch a win here and there because attendance and support is already declining (and even the level of interest on this forum - there are usually far more posts after a loss).

Also for the youngsters to experience the adrelalin rush of winning (especially at the SCG).

A predictable loss of around 35 - 42 points on Saturday kept quite a few supporters at home including me, however I had a massive work commitment the following day. Would have attended otherwise.

But are there seriously 30,000 Giants members?

[O'Reilly Boy]

If there is anything that is going to keep me away from the SCG it is the non-stop noise from the PA system and the distracting (and glitching) advertising running around the fence. The latter does interfere with viewing the game. The incessant noise during breaks means that I can't talk with my friends. WE just have to sit there (or risk screaming at each other). It really takes away from the game day experience.

But I also have to say that switching to a mode of spectatorship which is all about 'how will this rebuild go' is not without its considerable rewards. It's not a terrible way to watch this great sport.

By the way, my daughter's u12 team had a come from behind 32-28 victory in one of the most engaging, heart in mouth games I've seen since the Gary Rohan Essendon game. What a sport. These girls are just so into it. Their coaching this season so far has been just first rate: repetitive handballing and off-the-ground drills which pay immediate match-day dividends. With the no-soccering rule in place, they were scooping up loose balls and hand-passing in single fluid actions under pressure. Bring on the Swans AFLW. Sorry to go off-topic. Thought we could use a good news story. Plus I'm an indulgent, proud dad.

[Kafka's Ghost]

Unfortunately, too many love being negative for the sake of it or can't wait to lash out after a loss.

Completely agree with you Blood Fever and Big Cat. There seems to be no comprehension that our team is currently one of the youngest in the comp. There are currently 10 first choice players out, and while it is painful now watching boys being beaten up by men, I am actually far more bullish about the club’s future than say, if we’d gone down the North Melbourne track. They are showing less now within games than we are, and have the fourth oldest list in the AFL. Given the form of youngsters like Stoddart, McInerney, Wicks, Bell and even Pink in the reserves, plus that of more “seasoned” players such as O’Riordan and Fox, we have a lot to look forward to. A top 5 draft pick will also be big boost.

[Kafka's Ghost]

Hang on. Which "more experienced players" were available for selection on Saturday? Grundy, McVeigh, Smith, Franklin, Jack - who combined have over 1000 games of experience - were all unavailable. The most experienced players who played for the NEAFL side included COR (4 senior games), Fox (13), Cameron (1), Stoddart (2) and McInerney (1), while 9 game Rose was the non-playing emergency. Unless you count not playing Fox as choosing to pick inexperienced players over available experience, there was literally no-one available at the weekend who could have provided more experience to the side.

When Jack and McVeigh were available, the coaches picked them (to the howls of disappointment, maybe even derision, from some posters on here who think they are has-beens that we need to move past). I am pretty sure a fit Smith would find a spot, and probably a fit Grundy too - if the coaches are allowed to have their way, that is. (I'm not going to include Franklin in this conversation, because I don't think even the most pessimistic Swans fan would advocate not picking him if he were available).

Here, here, Liz. You’re always the voice of wisdom.

[Hotpotato]

If there is anything that is going to keep me away from the SCG it is the non-stop noise from the PA system and the distracting (and glitching) advertising running around the fence. The latter does interfere with viewing the game. The incessant noise during breaks means that I can't talk with my friends. WE just have to sit there (or risk screaming at each other). It really takes away from the game day experience.

But I also have to say that switching to a mode of spectatorship which is all about 'how will this rebuild go' is not without its considerable rewards. It's not a terrible way to watch this great sport.

By the way, my daughter's u12 team had a come from behind 32-28 victory in one of the most engaging, heart in mouth games I've seen since the Gary Rohan Essendon game. What a sport. These girls are just so into it. Their coaching this season so far has been just first rate: repetitive handballing and off-the-ground drills which pay immediate match-day dividends. With the no-soccering rule in place, they were scooping up loose balls and hand-passing in single fluid actions under pressure. Bring on the Swans AFLW. Sorry to go off-topic. Thought we could use a good news story. Plus I'm an indulgent, proud dad.

That’s epic Ghosty, is there a podcast of that to cheer us up?

[Merdo5555]

I think the sudden burst in consistent high level performance from Rohan isn't a coincidence. Didn't he actually say that he was walking on eggshells for fear of making a mistake. Now maybe he needed a change of scenery or was it a change in coaching style?

[Blood Fever]

If premierships were decided by draft picks, Gold coast, Carlton and GWS would be spliting flags between them for the last 5 years and the next 5 coming.

There is no reason why the swans would slide relative to other teams like WC, Geelong, Collingwood. We came off being the best list circa 2012/2014 injected with ongoing draft bargains (Henney, Mills and Blakey) which means on paper we got just as good, if not better, value picks than those teams.
So the only reason for our slip is poor trading, poor list management, and poor player development.
On current form Rohan is recruit of the year. 2 years ago, Mitchel was recruit of the year. Both came from the same place. Ouch!

We have never had the best list. Beat a star studded Hawks in 2012 on heart and got pantsed by them in 2014. West Coast , Geelong and Collingwood all slid before improving. Let's see who we pick up in trade period later this year.

[Merdo5555]

Completely agree we have dropped the ball across the club which is why we need a club wide review not just the playing list or the coaching staff. I fear that complacency has set in and unless there is a real shake up nothing will change.

We are 1-5 and battling North Melbourne for the tag of worst team in the competition yet there is very little noise in the Sydney cocoon. Relative success over the years and the lack of tough questions has lead to complacent and appalling decision making: Mitchell and Rohan are the most obvious but i think the malaise runs much deeper. Other than a couple of assistant coaches have we gotten new blood in through the administration and other areas of the club or is everyone too cozy and uncritical.

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We have never had the best list. Beat a star studded Hawks in 2012 on heart and got pantsed by them in 2014. West Coast , Geelong and Collingwood all slid before improving. Let's see who we pick up in trade period later this year.

We won on heart then decided to go on a recruiting spree when the whole nature of our success was team ethos, in search of the gold we sold the heart of what made the team so successful. The bloods culture is dead and buried.

[Merdo5555]

Just read the previous five pages of hysteria blaming all sorts of things for our fall from grace but my view is the following are reasons for our current form :
1. We dont have any of Grundy, Smith , McVeigh in the backline to organise the defence when it gets tough. From my cheap seats near the randwick end , GWS were a noticeably better organised defensive unit - along the lines of the swans a few years back.
2. Our forward line relies on Franklin - Reid is still a second or third tall for me. We have very few reliable goalkickers and on saturday we had two first year players in that forward line against a very well seasoned GWS backline. It needs time for these guys to get used to the organised defences that block. The forward line would look much better if Buddy , Menzel and Reid were all there and we were able to leave Papley as a permanent forward (where I think he is far more effective).
3. There are a number of players not going to the next level that we might have expected . Not sure whether its injury, coming back from injury or whatever but the coaching staff in planning this season Im sure would have anticipated Hewitt, Heeney and Mills becoming our next level of midfielder to support Kennedy and Parker. While they have provided glimpses of it , the midfield still hasnt consistently gelled for 4 quarters in my opinion. While Jones has probably stepped up in his attack on the ball , his disposal leaves a lot to be desired and his vision is not great.
4. We couldn't have anticipated that Naismith would have reinjured himself.
5. Clarke and Thurlow have added little and have not balanced those we have lost
6. The things that are hurting us such as our turnovers through the middle are indicative of a team down on confidence and lacking cohesiveness much of which could be attributed to the points above. Its a pretty new team for all intensive purposes , propped up by a few veterans who at the moment are down on form themselves. This is probably because as an opposition you can focus on shutting them down and you pretty much win. If I was looking at the swans at the moment, provided I kept on top of Kennedy and Parker , I would be pretty confident that the lack of consistent effectiveness of others will therefore not hurt me.

Yeah but the whole point is we shouldn't be in a position where a few injuries and players being locked down turns the team into a rabble, maybe we still wouldn't win but we shouldn't be the shambles we currently are. Good teams plan for injuries and bad form and still resemble a coherent unit.