Match Day Thread Rnd 9 V Carlton.

[Conor_Dillon]

I noticed that as well but I think it might have been at least partly attributable to Carlton's lack of pressure through the middle of the ground. A team like Hawthorn the week before just simply won't allow you that much time or space.

[dimelb]

I noticed that as well but I think it might have been at least partly attributable to Carlton's lack of pressure through the middle of the ground. A team like Hawthorn the week before just simply won't allow you that much time or space.

That's probably true, but it is a skill worth developing. After all, Hawthorn themselves aren't too bad at it.

[Conor_Dillon]

That's probably true, but it is a skill worth developing. After all, Hawthorn themselves aren't too bad at it.

I think that's part of the reason we recruited someone like Nic Newman, we really need our foot skills to improve

[Xie Shan]

I'll have a go at addressing some of your questions / observations:

Doing a war dance doesn't directly achieve better conditions for Aboriginal people. It wasn't intended to. It was intended as a celebration of indigenous culture in a round specifically designated by the AFL for that very purpose.

Indirectly, AFL has a broader role to play in achieving better conditions for Aboriginal people. Firstly, high profile indigenous players in the AFL do act as role models for disadvantaged young indigenous children, probably to a far greater extent than in the non-disadvantaged populations for the very reason that these kids need high profile role models more than most. Adam has stated that his dance was a nod to the U16 Boomerang squad who taught it to him. Amongst other things, it was a public acknowledgement to these kids that Adam remembers and valued the time he spent with them. That's a pretty powerful message, I'd have thought.

Australian Football (and quite possibly other football codes) is used in parts of Australia to motivate kids to stay in school. In Western Australia (via the Neesham academies) and in the Northern Territory, participation in football programmes is linked to academic application. Most of us take completing school for granted because our parents did, and their parents did before them. A few rebel, but the majority just accept that going to school is what they'll be doing until age 17 or so. That's not the case in many of the most disadvantaged remote indigenous communities. Their parents didn't complete school so they've not been brought up taking for granted that they will. Education is not the be all and end all to addressing the social and economic issues facing these most disadvantaged communities but it's part of the solution.

As for Carlton fans rioting if they were ever to be faced with someone performing that dance in front of them again, I find that hard to believe. And if they did, it indicates they have a few problems. I don't really see how anyone could have felt intimidated with it on Friday night, coming as an unexpected event. Once they know and understand the context, I can see zero reason for anyone to feel intimidated or threatened. It's a concept that just doesn't compute with me.

Did Aboriginal people really introduce fire to Australia? I would have thought it's a naturally occurring phenomenon. Regardless, my understanding is that fire is critical to the regeneration of the bush and is a natural part of the ecological cycle. Fire only becomes an issue when it threatens the western-style built up communities.

Extraordinarily good post

[DamY]

Do the white All Blacks (that's confusing) have the option of sitting out the Haka?

And what's with the Blues fans feeling threatened by the dance (not that we all shouldn't feel a bit threatened by a bloke who can dance well)? Did the think Goodes might leap the fence. Fortunately, the AFL has taken action: AFL to ban imaginary spears at games - Titus O'Reily.

No you do it because you ARE an All Black and it is intrinsic to the team, culture and heritage.

They should have brought their imaginary shields with them but maybe it was too big for their carry-on

[Mr Magoo]

I just cant believe we are even discussing what he did. The kiwis do the haka before every game of rugby league and union and no one has ever mentioned it in the context it is being raised. In fact white kiwis participate equally with their indigenous countrymen.

So sad that a simple goal celebration detoriates into quasi factual rants about who has looked after or not the land etc etc etc.

The reality is that the very discussion of what he did shows up the inherent racism in our society. Believe me I wouldnt consider myself a liberal thinker in this area but this whole situation has been much ado about nothing.

[AnnieH]

Yes, it's doing a great job of outing racism in the media (Eddie, I'm looking at you).
What Goodesy does is get up right in your face.
He says that what is happening is wrong.
People don't like to be told that they're wrong.

I've said it before, one day, we'll be talking about Adam Goodes like we do Mabo.
He has done more for "awareness" than anyone who has gone before him.

[Dosser]

Yes, it's doing a great job of outing racism in the media (Eddie, I'm looking at you).
What Goodesy does is get up right in your face.
He says that what is happening is wrong.
People don't like to be told that they're wrong.

I've said it before, one day, we'll be talking about Adam Goodes like we do Mabo.
He has done more for "awareness" than anyone who has gone before him.

I tend to agree. I think the 'outing' of racism in the VFL/AFL took its first steps with Nicky Winmar, was built upon by Michael Long and is now escalated by Adam Goodes. I wouldnt be surprised if there was another indigenous player in about a decade who will ramp it up a notch again. I think it is part of a progression and Goodsie will be long honoured for it well after most others are forgotten.

[Meg]

I don't like the idea of bushwalking and coming across a 3 metre Kangaroos, or a 100kg Marsupial Lion dropping on me from a tree.

But if we can boo Adam for this too, then why not add it to the list.

Hey! don't tell fans of North Melbourne or the Brisbane Lions that or they WILL add it to the list of reasons to boo Adam!

[rojo]

I have been trying to think up a strategy that would be effective in drowning out the opposition booing at games. My best idea so far is to get a trumpet, or find a Swans' fan who might have a trumpet and who could actually play it, to position themselves in the midst of the biggest group of opposition fans and just blow it every time the boos started, or preferably play the tune of the Swans' song until it stopped. Maybe one trumpet would not be enough!

At least it should create a diversion, until you either got lynched or tossed out of the ground. What stuff are you made of Dejavoodoo44!!

[dejavoodoo44]

I have been trying to think up a strategy that would be effective in drowning out the opposition booing at games. My best idea so far is to get a trumpet, or find a Swans' fan who might have a trumpet and who could actually play it, to position themselves in the midst of the biggest group of opposition fans and just blow it every time the boos started, or preferably play the tune of the Swans' song until it stopped. Maybe one trumpet would not be enough!

At least it should create a diversion, until you either got lynched or tossed out of the ground. What stuff are you made of Dejavoodoo44!!

Well, in the early days of State of Origin, me and my flat mate at the time, used to go to the old Lang Park hill and loudly and obnoxiously cheer on NSW, even though we were outnumbered by a ratio of around 2000 to 2. But of course, my alcohol consumption levels were far higher back then.
Though on to the tactics for Saturday's game, I thought I might try a fairly subtle tactic for starters, if any booing of Goodesy is heard. That is, replying to any booing with some baaing: just to let them know that I don't really consider them to be original thinkers.

[Cosmic Wizard]

Oh dear.
I'm the most "awake" person here.
Science indicates that the megafauna were wiped out during the ice age. It was too cold for them. When I was at Lake Mungo a few years ago, this was given as a possible reason by the indigenous tour guides who took me onto the lake. What do they know, eh? Have you heard of Mungo Man? He's been carbon dated to be over 40,000 years old. There's a dreaming story which talks about why the koala is here. It starts "when it was still very cold, and the ice still hadn't melted....", which indicates to me that this story had been passed down from that ice age.

As for Goodes... pull YOUR head in.
The people who got kicked out had nothing to do with Goodesy's dance. FACT. Stop trying to pull a bow when there's no string attached to it. You just look silly.
Why shouldn't a player ever gesture, or dance, or whatever to another club supporters? MickyO's gesture to the West Coke Budgie cheer squad is the stuff that legends are made of. EVERYONE embraced that (oh, except for the druggie cheer squad). I watch a lot of footy. Lots of players go right up to the opposition cheer squad after scoring a goal and celebrate in front of them. It's part of the game. It would be really sad if we lost that.

Everything that Adam does is for the advancement and improvement of Indigenous lives in this country. Open your eyes. I'd ask you to open your heart, but I don't think you have one.
If Adam Goodes doesn't get up in the face of an ignorant Australia, who will? Who is going to stand up and say that racist laws are wrong? Intervention is wrong? The gap between Indigenous health and the rest of Australian society health is wrong. The attitude and disrespect of the media and the government towards Indigenous Australians is wrong. Please tell me what other ways he has to show his pride?

I hope they boo Adam on Saturday. The media will spend another WHOLE week focused on Adam. Great free publicity for his cause, don't you think?
As it should be.

Why did carlton supporters get throw out then? If you watch the TV, don't know the name but he interviews the little league kids, he said he was afraid to take the girl out to the oval because of the language and... I can't remember exactly what he said so I won't tried to put words in his month. This was at the post match TV session.

You say they won't throw out because of Adam, why were they then? Just being carlton supporters???

Player should never gesture or dance to other club supporters, that why there are penalties for just that and players have been fined for doing that.

"Players go right up to opposition cheer squad after scoring a goal and celebrate..." Could you please back this up with a game and time, and maybe a video link?

You also say "Who is going to stand up and say that racist laws are wrong?" Which laws are you talking about??? We still have racist laws in this country?

"Please tell me what other ways he has to show his pride?" Here are a couple for you;

1. Use your position as Australia of the Year to close the gap between Indigneous and other Australians, he has access to the government
2. Deprive the racist booer's of their oxygen by ignoring them and not bringing them more attention; just play the game and ignore them
3. When Adam wants to highlight an issue such as Aboriginal housing, he can call the media, his name will get them along and it will be more beneficially than having a dance

As for your indigenous tour guides, ask them to google the megafauna extinction, then they may give tourists the correct answers.
And just because they are Aboriginal, it doesn't mean that they are the font of all wisdom; the story of the Koala getting a bit cold, really, we do have ski fields in this country. Why do you assume it a story handed down since the ice age? Another sentence without any evidence backing it.

If Adam wants a cause, great, but express this cause in ways which cause it no harm. Why should he get "...up in the face of ignorant Australia"?? What will that achieve, nothing.