Umpiring Standards in the SFL

[Monty Burns2]

Now you've defended him anyone who was guessing def knows now

Not many "vETERAN" full forwards running around.

[boris]

monty jumped thE gun,i wasnt talking about anyone from UNSW/ES.

[Pace To Burn]

Boris, your post is such an inaccurate version of events it is a joke. Further, given that someone with more than a passing level of knowledge of and interest in the SFL could reasonably be expected to work out who you are referring to, it is also defamatory.

Now you've defended him anyone who was guessing def knows now

[tara]

Coastal your ideas are not dumb but the fact is those in charge have their head up there arse.

So you understand how things work here.

Prem Div must have 3 official central umpires , 2 official goal, two offical boundary.

1st Div the same with the execption of 2 official central umpires not three.

Prem Div 18s the same as Div 1 (numbers start getting thin in the goal and boudary ranks here)

Div 2 (the old SFA D1) 2 official central umpires. Clubs to supply rest

Div 3 and Challenge cup 18's - 1 official umpire if available - 2 central club umpires - clubs must each supply 1 goal umpire and home club must supply 2 boundary umpires.

Div 4 - if you see an offical umpire then Jesus has been resurected.

As Challenge cup is the inferior under 18's competition in Sydney and as such is only barely ahead of D4 in the pecking order so quite often it also has no offical umps at some games.

However as Challenge cup is only park footy why is two of the kids ( only five were in their last year of 18's) who played with us last year have slotted straight into a Prem Div side and one was the r1 rising star winner?

PS Rafter I just re read your post and I dont think anyone is blaming the umps for a loss just merely questioning their standard.

[Coastal Boy]

Most people would agree that as a general rule former players make the best umpires regardless of what sport you are talking.

But why do so few (if any) former players in Sydney take up a whistle????

I suggest that we encourage current players to be current umpires. This thing happens everyday in sports like netball and hockey. So why cannot a Premier division player play a game on Saturday and then Umpire Division 1 on Sunday???? I do not necessarily advocate umpiring your own division. Then, maybe with the passage of time some of these players may become former players and eventually Premier League Umps. This idea could extend to a current player out with a rib injury who cannot play.....but can umpire. Clubs could nominate to the league each week who might be available.

I liked the way a few years ago when the League mandated that each club must provide umps to do the 2s due to lack of umps. I dont know whether the scheme resulted in any of these club umps (usually who were older) taking up a whistle.

I know people will cite a lack of umpire training and the likes to condemn the idea but I think these speed humps can be sorted out if people apply themselves.

Here's one from left field ready to be torn apart: Why not have the 2 umpires of div 1 combine with the 3 umps of Premier league and all 5 umpires control both games on the same day. Result: less fitness required for all, more eyes on the play. Might be dumb overall but has some merit.

[Monty Burns2]

the biggest problem is that the umpires umpire the player/club and not the play..Some blokes can and do get away with murder.

I watched a recent Premier div match and a veteran full forward was being held by the jumper, the full forward just turned around and whacked the much younger player who was dropped like a stone.Full forward led and took an easy uncontested mark and kicked the goal.

as the ball was going back to the centre, the umpire said "if you punch him in the head again i will have to report you"......??????????

vETERAN full forwards reply "go eff yourself you spastic cant".

Umpires reply "dont talk to me like that".

Anyone see anything wrong with this picture??Imagine if it was one of the Kassems.They would of been reported and got 16 weeks.

But as Tara has pointed out, it is no use going through the correct channels because they are always correct.

Boris, your post is such an inaccurate version of events it is a joke. Further, given that someone with more than a passing level of knowledge of and interest in the SFL could reasonably be expected to work out who you are referring to, it is also defamatory.

[boris]

Rafters when players make the errors you speak of, they are held accountable by there coach and team mates.The ramifications could be they are dropped/cop a spray/ are educated on how to get better.

In the SFL umpires ranks there is no accountability and when mistakes are made the umpires boss totally ignores it.

And can someone justify why clubs have to pay for them when the AFL is a couple of hundred million dollar entity.?

[tara]

Actually Im wrong, how can we possibly expect our umpires to improve when the association has relased a set of collector cards available for purchase for $50 from their association website.

[tara]

Rafters my concern with the umpires is the fact they have no interest in improving the standard of the umpiring in their lower ranks. How can you possibly improve the standard when he focus is only on the upper eschelon?


I dont care what club you play with or what level you play, one thing they all have in common is trying to improve the standard of that with which the perform. Whether they are succesful or not doesnt matter the fact remains they attempt to do it. The attitude of those in charge of the umpires doesnt reflect this, their only care in the world is ensuring three umpires, two boundary and two goal umpires for all premier league games. How does this insane policy improve the standard?

Perhaps the umpires should have a good hard look at themselves and ask why their bosses in Melbourne are pissed off at the fact they are unable to produce one AFL standard umpire after all these years. Certainly running three umpires on a ground of Sydney Unis size is going to have remarkable results in improving their substandard fitness levels.

[Rafters]

Surprised it took this long in the season to start bagging umps. I haven't seen any matches this year but I can safely say that umps get more decisions correct than what they get wrong.

I can also safely say that I don't recall one match in my whole career - over 300 games - where an umpriring decision cost my team a match. Every game that I have played in & lost has been due to a number of factors including:

a) dropped marks
b) bad kicks
c) fumbles
d) wrong option taken
e) bad handpasses
f) lack of discipline in trying to mark rather than spoil, giving away 50, etc
g) too much aggression resulting in going high/hiting late etc
h) poor coaching strategies/decisions/moves
i) injuries
j) fitness
k) lack of talk
l) poor tackling
m) no protection of teammates with ball
n) poor leading by forwards
o) inaccurate shots at goal (every behind costs a team 5 points!)
p) selfish play
q) ... or perhaps the opposition was simply better in the above facets?

Til a side plays the perfect game & doesn't make one error ... then I am afraid that they don't have any right to blame an umpire for loss. Instead they should probably look at themselves first & realise that they could improve. If more energy was spent on your own side rather than worrying about the ump then you will be a better side. Losers always look for excuses.

[frank]

Fair to say, I have no idea...

[boris]

the biggest problem is that the umpires umpire the player/club and not the play..Some blokes can and do get away with murder.

I watched a recent Premier div match and a veteran full forward was being held by the jumper, the full forward just turned around and whacked the much younger player who was dropped like a stone.Full forward led and took an easy uncontested mark and kicked the goal.

as the ball was going back to the centre, the umpire said "if you punch him in the head again i will have to report you"......??????????

vETERAN full forwards reply "go eff yourself you spastic cant".

Umpires reply "dont talk to me like that".

Anyone see anything wrong with this picture??Imagine if it was one of the Kassems.They would of been reported and got 16 weeks.

But as Tara has pointed out, it is no use going through the correct channels because they are always correct.

[Tim Freedman]

Is it really the UMPIRES fault?

The same topic generally gets raised every year. I was coached by a very good person in my early playing days who strongly suggested that players worry about the things that they alone control and not to worry about anything else. Umpires included.

To be honest I have very little criticism to offer in regards to the SFL umpires, I am however not a fan of the changes being applied to the rules both at this level and at AFL level.

An example is in the AFL whereby we now have 3 rules in the Laws of the game that require an umpire to consider a players INTENT before awarding a free kick or penalty. 2 are the new ones. In the AFL, a free kick can now be awarded for a deliberate rushed behind and umpires award a 50m penalty against any players who tackle, hold or make contact against an opponent AFTER the opponent has disposed of the footy, for the purpose of preventing them from taking part in the next contest. The deliberate out of bounds rule is one that has been in existence for some time and possibly up until now was the most contentious and difficult rule to apply of all rules. We now have 3!!

Is there another sport in the world that requires an umpire to determine intent?? We endeavour to do so in regards to a reportable offence but in these circumstances we call all parties to the tribunal and undertake a series of questions and hear various statements before finalising the verdict. Judging intent by simple observation is an impossible prospect in real time.

The rules that an umpire can realistically adjudicate on need to be black and white. A push in the back is a push. A head high tackle is one that is above the shoulders and a GOAL travels between the 2 big sticks.

The AFL suggests that umpires are not taking up umpiring or quitting umpiring because of the abuse they get. I suggest that the abuse of umpires plays only a minor role and i'm really not convinced that umpires give it away due to abuse alone. They give it away because it is too hard and constantly changing.

Being an umpire is hard work. Make no mistake. One of the most crucial aspects is getting to the right positions to make the very best decision. The AFLs continued "need for speed" is what makes umpiring hard, and the rules being introduced to quicken the game only increase the difficulty an umpire faces as he now has to make decisions on INTENT at this speed??

In the SFL we should be saying NO more rule changes. We should clearly communicate the message to the clubs and umpires that we will operate under different guidelines. I have watched games on the weekend whereby the players are confused and unclear on the deliberate rushed behind rule. They think it applies in the SFL? Imagine the umpires level of confusion? Not once has this been clearly communicated. I have seen umpires make decisions on the new rules even though they don't apply. Clearly too much confusion.

We shouldn't play on from a behind. Umpires should get the break in the SFL to reset themselves in the best position. We need the boundary umpires to have time to reset and get outside the 50m arc for the kick in. We need the goal umpire to have time to note down the scores and make sure his mate at the other end saw it too. We need the players to have time to draw breath and set up their structures. At this level the players and umpires are NOT elite athletes and don't have the same running capacity of the big time.

The AFL in its role as the custodian of our great game needs to consider the views of the many thousands of people who watch, play and umpire. This includes those involved at our level. This competition runs more than 10 times the amount of games a weekend than the AFLs 8. The so called Laws of the Game committee has no member representing the game where it is MOST played. The committee uses stats and data for decision making on the rules and Laws of Australian Football from the elite competition of 16 teams.

If the AFL insists that it is the custodian of the game then it needs to consider the game in its ENTIRETY and seek and consider representation from the many thousands that watch, play and umpire it.

Overall we need to take all of this into consideration before condemning the role that 99% of us don't want to do. And so i ask the question: IS IT REALLY THE UMPIRES FAULT??

[tara]

Quite simply those in charge of umpiring have NFI.

It is run as a seperate entity to the NSW AFL and they are a bunch of primadonnas.

I offered some constuctive feedback to an unnamed person regarding the umpiring at our trial matches as I wrongly believed that they may have been interested. Apparently anything below Prem Div and Div one is park footy and we should just be happy with what we get. Given they have no interest in improving that level of umpiring how do they plan to improve those at the higher level when their in no pressure on them to peform or drop down. I may have well be talking to a glass wall.

Im still waiting for a reply to an email to the same person three weeks ago where I asked for some clarification to my understanding of the rules as maybe my frustration was born out of my ignorance. I have spoken to a couple of umpires since and realised that my frustration was justified and the umpire we had was a tool with no understanding of the rules.

Finally I made a request last week and the reply I got was a complete bald faced lie. If it wasnt a lie however and they had passed on the request to a subordinate then their management skills are pathetic.

[Junior]

I would like to know what sort of playing experience the list of senior umpires has. For me, there seems to be a lack of understanding of a players perspective. For instance, once you have committed to a tackle and are bringing a player to the ground, it is very hard to let go of that player if he handballs mid-tackle. Coastal, I agree whole-heartedly that there seems to be a systemic problem in coaching umpires. When speaking to umpires after matches and generally around the traps, it seems as though there is rarely negative feedback given. It's all backslaps and congratulations. If a player makes an error (and I don't mean skill errors), if a player goes against team structure or the game plan, they will cop a hiding from the coach. A result of which is the player will probably do the right thing next time, or go back to his players manual and embed the correct structure in his head. So it should be in the umpire ranks. For me, there needs to be some sort of 'players consultant' for the umpires (I'm sure they can find some cash in the seemingly endless TPP budget)and there needs to be a bigger emphasis on correcting mistakes rather than high fives for "being in the right position".