Reserves v Weston Creek - Rescheduled

[liz]

This article puts an interesting spin on things in that it indicates the two clubs received advance permission to do this. Subsequently stripping them of competition points is a bit stiff if this is the case.

That said, it is hard to imagine that the loss of 4 points is really going to affect the Swans (nor that the gift of 2 points to WC would really make much difference to their finals chances either).

http://canberra.yourguide.com.au/detail.asp?class=sport&subclass=local&story_id=476882&category=General%20Sport&m=5&y=2006

[Legs Akimbo]

Originally posted by liz
This article puts an interesting spin on things in that it indicates the two clubs received advance permission to do this. Subsequently stripping them of competition points is a bit stiff if this is the case.

That said, it is hard to imagine that the loss of 4 points is really going to affect the Swans (nor that the gift of 2 points to WC would really make much difference to their finals chances either).

http://canberra.yourguide.com.au/det...ort&m=5&y=2006

Yes Liz, But what about the psychological impact of being a first round draft pick and playing intraclub games against third rate country sides.

How does Josh feel about spending three years doing this? Would he prefer to play VFL? Does he feel his development is being stunted?

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Originally posted by DST
What needs to happen is for the ACT & Sydney Football Leagues need to select 5 of their strongest teams each and combine to form a stronger state based league.

Forget 5 and 5, the ACTFL isn't what it was, but it's a mile better than the Sydney leagues.
Interestingly there was an article inInside Football this week about St.Kilda having the @@@@s because 6 or 7 of their players were in AVL reserve grade last week because their VFL affiliate didn't think they weren't up to playing 1st grade for the Casey Scorpions. Which explains why returning to the VFL isn't really an option for us.

I wonder how concerned the coaching staff are about the lack of "quality opposition" for 2 hours each week. These guys are fulltime footballers so the game itself is only a very small component of their working week.

[Glenn]

If a return to the VFL was made, for it be beneficial to Sydney it would have to be as South Melbourne, and then give Sydney complete control on the players used etc, with a view to their development for the Senior side.
IE A setup like in the NRL where you have the First Grade side, and then the Premier League side being both controlled by the same organisation (in most cases)

[hammo]

Originally posted by Glenn
If a return to the VFL was made, for it be beneficial to Sydney it would have to be as South Melbourne, and then give Sydney complete control on the players used etc, with a view to their development for the Senior side.
IE A setup like in the NRL where you have the First Grade side, and then the Premier League side being both controlled by the same organisation (in most cases)

But most AFL sides have abandoned this... e.g. Hawthorn affiliated with Box Hill.

I presume the cost is prohibitive.

The coaching staff have previously stated that they prefer to be in full control of the reserves team.

While the opposition is poor, I can't see any immediate solutions.

[Foreign Legion]

Originally posted by Legs Akimbo
Yes Liz, But what about the psychological impact of being a first round draft pick and playing intraclub games against third rate country sides.

How does Josh feel about spending three years doing this? Would he prefer to play VFL? Does he feel his development is being stunted?

Spot on Legs, if I was a father of a young bloke Sydney would clearly be the last place you'd want him to go for further development. It just isnt happening at the moment. I honestly believe the standard has affected Malceski - oh sure - he will still make it but it has slowed up his transition to senior footy.

As for players being played out of position etc - who cares, better that than playing against team mates in a scratch match.

[SimonH]

This has been discussed up hill & down dale, and will continue to be because there's no perfect solution.

Barring some kind of statistical analysis, I wouldn't latch on to one or two anecdotes and say 'the system is killing our kids'. The SANFL is probably the best state league in Australia (rookies and new draftees play SANFL reserves, not league, almost as a matter of course), but you can always point to kids who were expected to make it and didn't (e.g. Stephen Gilham, #16 draft pick in 2002, got plenty of SANFL game time, but was delisted from Port having played 1 game to the end of '05).

We shouldn't lose sight of 3 things:

1. The ACTAFL competition standard is historically not far from the Swans reserves standard. A long rookie list and a relatively short injury list have seen us pull clear of the pack. The long rookie list is likely to be with us for some time, but the short injury list may not be. The issue in relation to the weekend's game relates to a particular club, not the whole comp. Weston Creek are nowhere near the mark, and are on the verge of folding, but ACTAFL desperately want to prop them up because they don't want a 7-team comp (and there's presumably no other club ready to step into the breach).

2. Entering the VFL just seems silly. There is no doubt that for team unity, cohesion and maintaining coaching direction, joining up with Port Melbourne on the 'max 12 players' rule is a non-option; the only way to go would be to field a South Melbourne (Swans reserves) side as a stand-alone team in the VFL, with the odd top-up from either Victoria (which club?) or we'd continue to pick a few lucky winners from SFL, and fly them down to Melbourne each week. Airfares and associated travel costs alone could nudge the $200k/year level, plus actually running the SMFC in Melbourne. If the VFL would have us at all, they would have no interest in flying teams up to Sydney 12 times a year to play in an avowedly Victorian state-based comp; so every match would be in Melbourne. How would this help development of the game in NSW? If players not pushing for immediate selection are playing every weekend in Melbourne, why wouldn't they want to live in Melboure and train in Melbourne as well? What kind of message would this send to talented Sydney kids looking for a path to play AFL professionally? 'Our best 22 play the showcase game here, but as for any decent 2nd tier footy-- forget it kids, you ain't gonna find it in this neck of the woods.'

3. If Sydney is going to bite the bullet and spend some cash (or, better yet, persuade the AFL to spend some cash), the answer is to get the standard in our own backyard as good as we can get it. This will involve getting the SFL, the ACTAFL and any other regional leagues around the table, and banging out plans for a NSW/ACT 8-team competition. (Any more than 8 teams would mean that an already stretched talent pool would be unacceptably diluted, plus more clubs = more cost.) Perhaps the comp could run only for part of the year at first (a la TAC Cup). Of course this would in practice require amalgamated teams to be entered between most clubs who wanted to participate, and may be unpopular for that reason. But you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs...

[Foreign Legion]

Originally posted by SimonH
The SANFL is probably the best state league in Australia (rookies and new draftees play SANFL reserves, not league, almost as a matter of course), but you can always point to kids who were expected to make it and didn't (e.g. Stephen Gilham, #16 draft pick in 2002, got plenty of SANFL game time, but was delisted from Port having played 1 game to the end of '05).

The SANFL is not the best state league - yeah its the second best but Grundy wouldnt be starring in the VFL unfortunately.

It all comes back to the question Simon - why the hell should the Swans care how good the standard of Sydney footy is? We dont get any draft concessions any more, and the eyes have just been picked of elite young talent! Who cares - we can't draft players before any other club. We may as well be just as concerned as to the state of the WAFL.

My point remains that young players are at a disadvantage being drafted by the Swans - that is an unfortunate fact at the moment.

[goswannie14]

Originally posted by SimonH
If the VFL would have us at all, they would have no interest in flying teams up to Sydney 12 times a year to play in an avowedly Victorian state-based comp; so every match would be in Melbourne. How would this help development of the game in NSW? If players not pushing for immediate selection are playing every weekend in Melbourne, why wouldn't they want to live in Melboure and train in Melbourne as well? What kind of message would this send to talented Sydney kids looking for a path to play AFL professionally?

One flaw in this argument is that they already have one interstate team in the VFL, Games are played in Tassie against the Tassie Devils every second week. So this argument isn't valid when you look at the facts.

I believe that this is the best answer to the problem, and if all clubs get a bigger slice of the TV revenue, it could easily become a reality, with home games at possibly Princes Park, Punt Road or maybe even North Port Oval.

[elroy67]

I notice there are only 20 names on the reserves team list. Does the Canberra comp only have 2 interchange or do we top up with other players? and if so from where?

[Wazza]

Originally posted by SimonH

3. If Sydney is going to bite the bullet and spend some cash (or, better yet, persuade the AFL to spend some cash), the answer is to get the standard in our own backyard as good as we can get it. This will involve getting the SFL, the ACTAFL and any other regional leagues around the table, and banging out plans for a NSW/ACT 8-team competition. (Any more than 8 teams would mean that an already stretched talent pool would be unacceptably diluted, plus more clubs = more cost.) Perhaps the comp could run only for part of the year at first (a la TAC Cup). Of course this would in practice require amalgamated teams to be entered between most clubs who wanted to participate, and may be unpopular for that reason. But you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs...

I agree with part of this but would add the SFL falls apart at the u/16 & u/18 level and this is the area that most needs development to creat a stronger SFL. There are some really good coaches at age levels but just not the kids coming through due to other commitments - school sport/studies etc.

Maybe money should be spent so the RAMs can play every week in the ACT? or a composite team of the best u/18s from the SFL
to play in the ACT.?

There is no quick fix to improve either the SFL or ACT so hopefully they are working on putting long term development strategeys in place. i.e. junior comp played on Sunday and involving more private schools to enter u/16 & u/18 teams is a good start.

Cheers

Waz