Alleged incident at hotel on Sunday night

[Merdo5555]

At least you honestly admit the potential criminal conduct played a huge role.

All im doing is pointing out the hypocrisy of those trying to claim it didnt. Again there is no way they get a ban for the rest of the year without the criminal allegations.

We should just be honest about it and stop pretending we arent considering everything that happened.

In the context of everything that happened the ban is appropriate but on the phony basis that we didnt consider the alleged criminal conduct.

[dejavoodoo44]

Look, as someone who’s had some wonderful times over the years with the combination of women, alcohol, other substances and early morning action in my time, I’m not judging the players morally. Hell, it’s all fond memories for me.

But my actions a) weren’t in the context of a workplace, b) didn’t affect others and their workplace, or workplace outcomes, and c) never led to a criminal complaint. I should add d) never compromised my chance of winning a flag, but that’s pretty obvious.

And the club clearly has sufficient information to make that call.

As for the why five when only one player faces charges question? Well, we don’t know that to be true. It may be. But there’s been a lot of bad reporting in two days alone. Some of what we read today may well be wrong. And it might be the club knows, for example, player A organised the kick on, player B organised some substances (if that’s the case), player C organised the lap dancers and player D is the one facing an investigation. But it seems clear five players were in that room at some stage.

I’d also suggest there’s another part of this, beyond the issues internal to the two playing groups. The bottom line. Can you imagine we let players play for now. Every major commercial partner is already being asked by the media for their response. The easiest thing for them to do would be to walk away and for example, Telstra has pulled brand ambassadorships with some Swans players. At least we’ve given them the capacity to say they’re in dialogue with the club and expect them to take it seriously,which their actions so far suggest they do.

You might say that sucks as a motivation, but it’s real and unavoidable. It’s not the main reason for acting, but it’s not nothing.

Exactly, and how many of our supporters would be happy to come out in a few weeks time, to enthusiastically cheer on a few possible sex offenders. Or a the very least, cheer on the idiots whose behaviour is responsible for launching this @@@@ show.

[stevoswan]

Couldnt imagine another club in our position taking this action but we do because "our culture is so strong".....

Woke appeasement is never enough, there is a reason the Law allows for due process and if a conviction is laid, crucify then not before.

Id also bet anything not all 5 are charged.

Not looking for conflict but it annoys me when people use the word "woke". I find it lazy and demeaning. It's a mythical political word that if anything simply means 'respect for others no matter who they are'.....but it is bandied about as some sort of insult to those who do believe in respect for others by those that seemingly don't care too much.....and also thrown out there to diminish well meaning efforts to achieve the reasonable goal of societal respect.

I think the public rightly needs to immediately support accusers/victims of sexual assault.....if that is 'woke', so be it but I would say it's actually appeasement of a potential victims claims and their right to be heard. Until the facts may say otherwise, I think in a responsible society this is the right way to go.

Having said that, we do have a justice system that promotes the concept of innocent until proven guilty, so I do get your point......just not sure it's 'wokeness' that is turning that concept on it's head as some may claim has happened here. My guess is that the players have admitted, to the club at least that something of an inappropriate sexual nature has occurred, whether it be by one or more players.

Anyway, hopefully the police will get to the bottom of it.

[UUaswan]

Not looking for conflict but it annoys me when people use the word "woke". I find it lazy and demeaning. It's a mythical political word that if anything simply means 'respect for others no matter who they are'.....but it is bandied about as some sort of insult to those who do believe in respect for others by those that seemingly don't care too much.....and also thrown out there to diminish well meaning efforts to achieve the reasonable goal of societal respect.

I think the public rightly needs to immediately support accusers/victims of sexual assault.....if that is 'woke', so be it but I would say it's actually appeasement of a potential victims claims and their right to be heard. Until the facts may say otherwise, I think in a responsible society this is the right way to go.

Having said that, we do have a justice system that promotes the concept of innocent until proven guilty, so I do get your point......just not sure it's 'wokeness' that is turning that concept on it's head as some may claim has happened here. My guess is that the players have admitted, to the club at least that something of an inappropriate sexual nature has occurred, whether it be by one or more players.

Anyway, hopefully the police will get to the bottom of it.

Its doing something based on the look of it, like Merdo said, the response considers the Police Investigation

All I was saying, is I agree let's sanction the players til finals and see if charges come, not get on the front foot and derail a whole Organisation to appease the media for something that may not even be a charge.

If its drug use or SA let charges come and appropriate sanctions take place, but wait for due process.

[stevoswan]

Rules for thee but not for me

Players can't play but Pav and Cox can continue in their most Senior roles overseeing AFLW, meeting Sponsors addressing members

I do think these attempts to implicate management and coaches as just as responsible for what has happened and therefore somehow lessens the responsibility of the players is neither healthy nor helping anyone.

Do coaches and club management set the standards for our clubs cultural expectations? Yes.

Were they in the room when the alleged incident happened? No.

Should they accompany adult players everywhere they go to ensure cultural expectations are adhered to? Of course not.

There is a concept of trust and expectations of player responsibility in any sporting club....we can't have chaperones for adults so the players involved are solely responsible for what occurred that night.

End of story.

[stevoswan]

Grab on to this thought: WE are the new Essendon.

We are not. I think that claim is just ridiculous.....but I do understand there are a lot of opposition morons out there who will try to make it so.....and they can get ****ed.

[Daisi]

The below is just my opinion.

I would like to think that morality played a role in the suspension of the 5 players, but I'm inclined to believe that commercial reality may have played a larger role. The relative failure of the Giants has shown that AFL has a tenuous hold on the Sydney public, the Swans are, right now, the only viable AFL team in one of the country's largest markets. A scandal like this, the endless newspaper articles, the splashed ugly headlines, the rumours, the innuendos, the gossip, it's all a terrible look for sponsors, for members, and for the AFL in Sydney. How many sponsors would continue with the club if the 5 players were playing? How many members would show up to watch them play? Combine this with an NRL establishment and associated journos which would love to reclaim the whole of Sydney for its own, and you're looking at forces which could, quite likely destroy the viability of the club. Pavlich and Co had no choice, they had to stop this feral feeding frenzy in the media to preserve the long term viability of the club. That's what they've done.

I support the decision. I understand that people may see it as condemning the 5 players unfairly, but in the broader context, it was the only thing the board could do. I also think it has the added benefit of punishing some very stupid juvenile and possibly criminal behaviour by the players concerned. I'm upset, horrified and was not going to renew my membership next year. Now I will renew, because the club has taken action. But I'm not naive enough to believe that the action was based solely on moral terms. I'm a born and bred Sydneysider, I know that money talks louder than morality in this town.

[Velour&Ruffles]

So I had the same experience as another member and was put in Poster Purgatory – not sure why because I was very careful not to say anything with implications for ongoing external issues, and what I said didn’t seem much different to many published posts. I put it down to some sort of overzealous filter rather than the Mods.

I will [very slightly] rephrase my post and see if it gets through.

A few thoughts for what (little, if anything) they may be worth:

• I agree with Merdo that some element of punishment for more sinister behaviour - suspected or otherwise - has been built into the sanction. If it was just about late night boozing, and even bringing a [person who disrobes for a living] back to a room (which is not against the [rules of the country], albeit distasteful), there's no way they would cop 6 weeks .... especially when there were apparently no formal team curfews or other rules in place even to be broken. The club may say it's about a breach of expected standards quite separate from whatever the [people in blue] are doing but that just doesn't stack up in light of the severity of the sanction for both the individuals and the consequences for their teammates.
• I'm in two (or maybe three) minds at this point as to whether the club going so heavy now is OK, inevitable or unreasonable. I understand the arguments each way. But given the club HAS gone hard, I find it very disappointing (and rather knee-jerk) to hear that based on the scant knowledge we currently have, some people are apparently looking at bailing forever on the club and taking their support elsewhere. I think that, if anything, the club has erred on the side of harshness given current knowledge. They are clearly taking it VERY seriously. They are NOT sweeping it under the rug or trying to minimise anything, as would have been the way of the VFL/AFL for decades.
• I'm not sure what more they could have done while still allowing for the fact there's a [people in blue] investigation yet to be completed. The club has been around for 153 years. Yes, it's extremely disappointing that any players - let alone these particular ones - acted like this. But to bail on a 153 year history and a lifetime of support because of the actions of 5 stupid and entitled young men behaving like stupid and entitled young men - and suffering significant consequences - seems hasty and disproportionate to me. The old saying about individuals comes to mind - nobody is as good as their best act or as bad as their worst act. I would extend the same grace to the club. This is a pretty low point but surely the club has earned some credits in 153 years too.
• Watching the Agenda Setters on Monday, Caro made a comment - which nobody explored - to the effect that there had been whispers for a while about a drinking culture at the Swans. If so, it's very disappointing that it was tolerated and allowed to get to this stage. It might also explain why we have kept falling at key hurdles.

?

[mcs]

The below is just my opinion.

I would like to think that morality played a role in the suspension of the 5 players, but I'm inclined to believe that commercial reality may have played a larger role. The relative failure of the Giants has shown that AFL has a tenuous hold on the Sydney public, the Swans are, right now, the only viable AFL team in one of the country's largest markets. A scandal like this, the endless newspaper articles, the splashed ugly headlines, the rumours, the innuendos, the gossip, it's all a terrible look for sponsors, for members, and for the AFL in Sydney. How many sponsors would continue with the club if the 5 players were playing? How many members would show up to watch them play? Combine this with an NRL establishment and associated journos which would love to reclaim the whole of Sydney for its own, and you're looking at forces which could, quite likely destroy the viability of the club. Pavlich and Co had no choice, they had to stop this feral feeding frenzy in the media to preserve the long term viability of the club. That's what they've done.

I support the decision. I understand that people may see it as condemning the 5 players unfairly, but in the broader context, it was the only thing the board could do. I also think it has the added benefit of punishing some very stupid juvenile and possibly criminal behaviour by the players concerned. I'm upset, horrified and was not going to renew my membership next year. Now I will renew, because the club has taken action. But I'm not naive enough to believe that the action was based solely on moral terms. I'm a born and bred Sydneysider, I know that money talks louder than morality in this town.

I think its a very well reasoned comment Daisi. Especially around the commercial realities. I just think the idea the board could do anything else in this situation is pie in the sky thinking.

When considering the initial sanctions, some on here more broadly are also forgetting the club has a whole lot more information about what went on up to the point before the incident then what is in the public domain. Reading between the lines, and if some of what has been floating about, the offences in question go well beyond the simplification currently being presented in the media. Despite the desperation of some to put footballing matters into decision making as the primary element, it is abundantly clear they were not at the top of the list - although equally I don't doubt there was at least a discussion on that side to begin with.

But some clearly think they know better than those with far greater knowledge of what actually happened then any of us do. You are all open to your own views of the worlds, likewise I will hold my opinion on the veracity of such view points.

[Tommy_Wolfe7]

Speculation free take on some of the underlying issues related to this situation:

https://readingtheplay.wordpress.com/2026/08/19/boys-will-be-boys-until-they-arent/

[mcs]

A very thoughtful piece Tommy, well put together and considered. Thankyou for sharing.

[Merdo5555]

Putting aside the alleged criminality the whole episode shows that the "bloods" culture is more of a myth than a reality for the current group.

I dont mean the whole group are tarnished as stupid, irresponsible, etc; but do you think in a team lead by Paul Kelly or Barry Hall or Brett Kirk would have allowed an environment that would tolerate players stepping out of line just before the finals.

In a team environment the biggest driver of attitudes and behaviour is peer pressure. Did the entire team including the coaching staff set the expectation that no-one (let alone 5 members of the team) could get away with a boozy late night at this stage of the season (I make no comment on the criminal allegations obviously no-one approves of that).

Obviously not, Ive always thought Mills wasnt vocal enough to be the Captain the team needed, whilst great leaders are hard to find he doesnt strike me as someone willing to butt heads with a senior colleague when required. He doesnt strike me as having that fear factor great captains have, he doesnt have that little bit of being a bastard that good captains have. Maybe behind the scenes he does, well sometimes you need to send a message publically.

We need a whole new team leadership structure, I rule Gulden out as he is in the same mould as Mills.

Final comment it appears the coach is slowly putting on a fair bit of weight, now its a but hypocrtical for me to say it (given im a big fat so and so) but unless its injury related it to my mind shows a little lack of self-discipline (yes hypocritical of me to say it since I have none but Im not the head coach of a football team) but he should set the example. John and all the other coaches always look fit (for ex-footballers).

Something for Dean to work on as they hopefully revamp their values.

I can hope that the team is forged by the fire they are facing and they come back next year hungrier angrier and determined to blow every team off the park with ruthless tough football. Not cheap garbage but tough uncompromising football. If some or all of the 5 come back they make the same commitment as the rest of the group. No more head rubbing, or childish taunting but tough uncompromising football. For too long the team has lost that bit of dogged mongrel that the real "bloods" players had.

I know we have Kirk as part of the football management team, i would be looking at bringing in a Paul Roos or similar type to really review our culture. This doesnt need to made public, do it behind the scenes. Work out the weak links and remove them (if some of our best players dont get it then good bye!).

The best team wins Premierships not the collection of the best players.

As for those threatening to leave, goodbye dont let the door hit you on the way out!

[crackedactor 01]

Spoke to a friend who claims to know a club official. Was not allowed to say much but did say there appears to be a lot of holes in the stories circulating, I think we need to wait for the police report before making judgements.

[mcs]

Did not think fat shaming of the coach would be on the bingo card, but there you go.

Spoke to a friend who claims to know a club official. Was not allowed to say much but did say there appears to be a lot of holes in the stories circulating, I think we need to wait for the police report before making judgements.

There is so much misinformation floating around - most of it made up junk. The criminal investigation will take the path it takes and should be left to do so. Not worth reading most of it - especially with a media pack willing to go to no ends.

[Tommy_Wolfe7]

A very thoughtful piece Tommy, well put together and considered. Thankyou for sharing.

I appreciate that. Many thanks for your kind words