AFL to launch 2nd team in Sydney

[sfan]

How about making the NSW/ACT Rams the feeder club for both Sydney AFL teams. Starting next year they could play in the Vic TAC cup for several years and allow the new western sydney club to start drafting from 2009 and play in the NSW/Rams side. The swans could also put several young kids in the squad as well.

A draft from the side could be worked out where the new side gets 3-4 in the early years and the swans get a lesser number. It would mean nsw/act kids would get better coaching and a chance to stay in a NSW.

[Pace To Burn]

I think that there is enough talent out there and the scholarship system has shown that over the last two years with a number of players making it onto lists. I think the problem in the past was that if the kids playing in NSW were not desirable for the SWANS then they didnt really get a look in with the other clubs unless they had an outstanding carnival as noone really saw them play any other time.Even if a kid was braining it every week there wasnt any focus on footy in Nsw at a junior level with even the Rams only playing a few games a year. Now that clubs have been forced to put kids on scholarships they track the kids performances over a greater amount of time and people like Ryan Davis Etc end up on a list when if he wasnt with the program he no doubt wouldnt have been picked up by West Coast. IMHO i think having another side in sydney will give more opurtunity to Kids and also more appeal to maybe a kid who is gifted in more than one sport to stick with Footy if they have a better chance of getting into programs and getting drafted.

[Robbo]

The under 18s things is a good idea.

With two new teams coming in, we will need to find another 88 players. So it's important to increase the talent pool, which is exactly what this will do. If the talent pool doesn't increase in Sydney and the Gold Coast over the next few years then the SANFL, VFL and WAFL will suffer when the new clubs come in.

[SimonH]

Excellent points. They're just trying to slice what is still a very small (but growing) pie-- local NSW/ACT young talent-- far too many ways.

To really give the new side a flying start and a local flavour, the AFL would have to say the following:

'With the exception of overage players taken in open competition in the ND, we are drawing a line through the whole of the NSW/ACT starting today, as a zone for the new western Sydney side-- that means no new scholarships, no more Swans local rookies-- and putting the new club on the field in 2013.'

And what are the chances of that happening?

[liz]

I agree Floppin'. They are all over the shop with the scholarship scheme and how it fits into giving a new team access to local talent. Surely if they are set on starting to gather a pool of local talent for the new team, they need to start curtailing the scholarship scheme, not talk about reducing the restrictions on numbers. Maybe they think there is a gigantic pool of untapped talent out there. Maybe there is, but most of it is still going to be eventually drawn to league, rugby and soccer with just a trickle diverting to AFL. It's going to take time before that trickle becomes a river.

It will be interesting to see how they treat the Swans if they give almost exclusive access to local talent to a new team. I don't think there's any doubt they've given the Swans assurances that their own position will be protected to some degree. And while we currently only have limited priority access to local talent, I can't see the club (Swans) being happy knowing they have NO access to local players for a period of a few years. Even though recruiting is mostly on a national basis, it is still important that we have the Jacks, Bevans, LRTs, McVeighs of this world to give the team a local flavour.

[floppinab]

New Sydney Club on Fast Track

under-18 debut as early as next season alongside the Gold Coast in the TAC Cup competition.

Erm, just exactly where are they going to get a list of 26 odd Under 18 players to play in the TAC cup, knowing full well they can't include any existing scholarship players in this team (assuming it is going to be linked to the new club). If you include the scholarship players then OK, but I would expect the teams that have those players signed will have something to say about that.

Each time I hear something from the AFL politbureau regarding the new West Sydney team I get more and more fearful it's the usual AFL, make up the story as we go along, approach.

The second and third paras in that story are in contradiction to each other. The scholarship scheme as it exists today can't continue if you grant a large swathe of NSW as a recruiting zone for the new club. By and large the horse has already bolted anyway with the majority of Under 17 talent taken in scholarships to interstate clubs. These are the players that would've made up a reasonable percentage of the starting lineup of the new team in 2012.

[ScottH]

New Sydney Club on Fast Track

The AFL's new western Sydney team could make its under-18 debut as early as next season alongside the Gold Coast in the TAC Cup competition.

The competition's working party dealing with the yet-to-be-named team met for the first time last week and will almost certainly grant the new side most of NSW and the ACT as an exclusive recruiting zone to potentially enter the under-18s competition in 2009 and make its AFL debut in 2012.

[givekidsakick]

The other clubs cried about the support given to the swans to try and get our game off the ground here in Sydney.....who can forget sitting at the SCG for two years without seeing a winning game.....this time round it will take a long time and a lot of money to prop up another team. The Kanga thing didn't work.....maybe they should talk to the Tigers about a relocation and Tassie should get its own team. There are plenty of options and it sure would be nice to have footy every week. Carn the Swans

[floppinab]

That depends on who you want to talk to. But at the end of the day the biggest problem a team in Western Sydney will face, will be the need to bring in NEW PEOPLE AND NEW SPONSORS to make them a successful club in the long term.
So a Western Sydney team NEEDS to get new people involved by get kids hooked at an early age at the junior level, hence the need for them having a strong local comp and junior links within it. Plus it would mean the chances of Sydney kids reaching the AFL rise.

I have no doubt a second club has its advantages, but surely the AFL and NSWAFL have to be looking at bridging the gap between Auskick (where numbers keep rising) and Local Club Football (where we see very few of the Auskick kids coming though in the end). If a Western Sydney went hand in hand with building up the junior club system (along with the AFL, NSWAFL and the Swans) then we all should have a no issue because thats an issue solved.

But if the AFL doesn't want to tackle it, then its clear why they want the second team, plus it just creates a problem for the Western Sydney team which will find it hard to find a supporter base and the Swans who will find themselves fighting to hold onto the current supporter and sponsor base they have at the moment.

Given the AFL's form in supporting Senior comps in Sydney to date, I can't find a reason why their attitude would change in any way with the introduction of a second team. The AFL have bounced between being openly hostile and apathetically indifferenct to the local senior competitions. They do see it as being in competition....... for sponsors, support, money to their own league.

There is no link between growth/success of the senior leagues and the new second team, support for the new team will come from Auskick and junior kids, the future members of the new club which have been increasing with the $$$ spent on development in those areas already. This should only increase further with a stronger presence from the 2nd team.

However the second team will only suck what little sponsors and money there is for the current senior sides right out from underneath them and weaken (kill???) their competitons further.

[blinddog]

Will we see a flood of silly season cup games and training games played by other teams in the west in on the Gold Coast over the next four years. Just to get more AFL in those regions.

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

couldn't agree more. there are so many AFL converts who have really embraced not just the Swans but the whole code. Being able to watch the top grade AFL every weekend is what our Vic/WA/SA cohorts take for granted.

They do? In Adelaide how people would watch Port one week then the Crows the next? Very very few, aside from SANFL Members who want to get value for money on their season memberships. Things are more extreme in WA, with Eagles matches will a 5000 person waiting list.

The only real city where you seriously can see your team most weeks in Melbourne.And that doesn't represent all the fans who follow AFL footy these days, does it?

JF

[bodgie]

To answer my own question... red white and blue makes sense now that Liberatore has gone.

[bodgie]

The main problem for AFL in Sydney is not so much the weakness of the local competition. That is just a symptom. The big hole between Auskick and senior/local clubs is the main stumbling block. For example private/GPS schools suck the life out of the youthful interest of eager talented sportsmen with their compulsory rugby and soccer participation. A local derby with all its publicity would go a long way to promote that teenage passion for a rivalry with a close enemy (although I would also argue the last thing Sydney needs is a another excuse for a westie v silvertail divide) and the demand for regular games in those middle years.

The battle with the NRL is secondary to getting kids passionate about winning a game of AFL (what is the northern acceptable colloquialism?) against the school down the road, over the bridge, etc then the code will look after itself rather than kids trying to show their loyalty to a brilliant but minority footy code to the rugby thugs. Melbourne, Brisbane or whatever is not on their radar.

As some of the posts show tribalism is an important part of being a fan. It's nothing to do with logic.

I don't what the name of the new team should be but WHAT COLOURS???!!!

[Big Al]

Only around where Big Al lives ... the rest is full of normal, working class people, bogans and dole bludgers.

Hey, that's what I want on my tomb. "He was just a normal, working class bogan who aspired to be a dole bludger. Long live the West."

[robbieando]

It's really chicken and egg stuff. Do you need a strong local comp or do you need the strong representation on/in the national arena.

That depends on who you want to talk to. But at the end of the day the biggest problem a team in Western Sydney will face, will be the need to bring in NEW PEOPLE AND NEW SPONSORS to make them a successful club in the long term. Most of those involved in Aussie Rules in Sydney are going to Stick with the Swans, some with go with both and a handful will jump ship. So a Western Sydney team NEEDS to get new people involved by get kids hooked at an early age at the junior level, hence the need for them having a strong local comp and junior links within it. Plus it would mean the chances of Sydney kids reaching the AFL rise.

No doubt having two teams in Sydney in the AFL would be a bonus, but that would be only for a sponsorship (clubwise) and a TV Rights (AFL) Point of View. After all how strong is the local comp at the moment with the Swans having just come off the Premiership in 2005? How strong are the links from Auskick to Senior Club Football in Sydney with the Swans in the AFL after being in Sydney all this time?

I have no doubt a second club has its advantages, but surely the AFL and NSWAFL have to be looking at bridging the gap between Auskick (where numbers keep rising) and Local Club Football (where we see very few of the Auskick kids coming though in the end). If a Western Sydney went hand in hand with building up the junior club system (along with the AFL, NSWAFL and the Swans) then we all should have a no issue because thats an issue solved.

But if the AFL doesn't want to tackle it, then its clear why they want the second team, plus it just creates a problem for the Western Sydney team which will find it hard to find a supporter base and the Swans who will find themselves fighting to hold onto the current supporter and sponsor base they have at the moment.

Personally, my view is that a second Sydney team will influence the growth of the code far faster than pouring money into grass roots football.

A second team can only influence growth of the code if there is the ability to handle that growth and if that second team is successful within a reasonable period of time (of course no one such expect them to be world beaters in the first 3-5 seasons. if they do, that would be the mistake that would lead to the downfall of the team)

I do recognise that both need to happen, I just think an investment at the top level and getting the interest in sponsors and money from TV rights will naturally create the funds the AFL has to invest at local levels.

The AFL does plenty now and really could do more to make an impact on the code at a grassroots level in Sydney without making an impact on their bottomline. No doubt a second team would see more money poured into junior football in Western Sydney, but in what manner? So to say a Second Team is needed to make that happen is just a myth, because the AFL could spend more money on junior football in Sydney if they wanted to even if a Western Sydney team wasn't on the cards.

What a second team would do is bring in the money to support itself for along time because to be honest, there would be little chance of the team running at a profit for at least the first 5 years and would need to build from nothing an entire training base, office and marketing base and employ staff. They are going to face an uphill battle to begin with, because many people are either going to stick with the Swans or with the code (League/Union) they already support. They will get there in the end with plenty of support, but the code MUST have money poured into it as well.

With an 18 team comp I hope we see the resurrection of a dedicated AFL channel.

Won't happen. Foxtel will want to make money, not lose it.