Positions?

[aardvark]

Jettas Grand Final performance was just the straw that broke the camels back. Occasional brilliance mixed in with laconic lazy rubbish. I for one would be very happy to see him traded.

[Melbournehammer]

There is way too much focus on individual players here. Say Jetta played a blinder in the context of the game - that is he was one of our best five and got around 20 possessions instead of five. What difference would it have made ? At best a goal or two. At best one or two more contested possessions by the Hawks.

Stop it. You are missing the point.

Have any of you watched the game again ?

Have you watched round 18 again ?

What was the score in the to at quarter time - 5.5 to 2.3. Do you want to know what it was round 18 ? 2.7 to 2.3. In both games the Hawks have had about ten scoring shots to five.

In round 18 at the ten minute mark of the third quarter we led by twenty points. The Hawks kicked nine goals to two over the next 25 minutes.

What happened in both games was a systemTic destruction of the game plan and our structures. It wasn't that we hadn't come to play. If the Hawks kicked 5.4 to quarter time do people think we hadn't come to play ? We got out to a lead of twenty points despite the hawthorn start - do people think we hadn't come to play. The nine goals to two - did we forget to play ?

I am increasingly of the view that the gf performance was entirely predictable because we failed to draw the right lessons from round 18. I am increasingly of the view that coaching and structures were ruthlessly exploited by a better team. The complacency on this board was mirrored by the coaches who thought we just had a down day when it was much more significant than that.

[Velour&Ruffles]

If you call playing with concussion fit?

I said "apparently fit" because I recognise he copped a hit, but I can only conclude he was fit anyway. He was observed for twenty minutes, sent back on and played out the game. A fit Lloyd was subbed off instead. Frankly, if he was so disoriented by the "concussion" that he couldn't focus on what was going on around him, and couldn't get above a lazy jog, our medical staff should and would never have allowed him back on. I have sufficient faith in the competence of our medical staff to believe that he wasn't suffering any meaningful concussion and that concussion therefore does not really explain his atrocious performance.

[goswannie14]

My opinion is based on what you need to win premierships, which is deep seated resilience and a burning hunger to win. Jetta may have had these to some extent in 2012 but he appears to have neither of them now. Your comparison to Roughead is what is ridiculous here. It is well-established that Roughead was crippled by injury in 2012 , and his problem was that he simply couldn't execute physically to his normal capability. Jetta failing to get above a jog when he was 3 metres from a Hawthorn ball-carrier is a completely different issue. At least Roughead was trying in 2012, injuries and all. An apparently fit Jetta was abysmal last Saturday and didn't appear to give a @@@@.

If you call playing with concussion fit?

[Velour&Ruffles]

His 2012 GF was pretty darn good. Your opinion is based on one game. It's ridiculous. On that basis Roughead should've been traded out of hawthorn after 2012. He had a an utter stinker that day. He's been pretty handy since..

My opinion is based on what you need to win premierships, which is deep seated resilience and a burning hunger to win. Jetta may have had these to some extent in 2012 but he appears to have neither of them now. Your comparison to Roughead is what is ridiculous here. It is well-established that Roughead was crippled by injury in 2012 , and his problem was that he simply couldn't execute physically to his normal capability. Jetta failing to get above a jog when he was 3 metres from a Hawthorn ball-carrier is a completely different issue. At least Roughead was trying in 2012, injuries and all. An apparently fit Jetta was abysmal last Saturday and didn't appear to give a @@@@.

[Melbourne_Blood]

The difference is that Jetta never even appeared to be trying. The others seemed to be trying but incompetent, whereas Jetta with all his blistering pace never got above a slow canter. I recall screaming at him about three minutes into the game - it was mystifying even then. That's not a "shocker of a game", it's a shocker of a headspace. Only those inside the club will know whether that is something amenable to fixing in a reasonable time frame. For mine, he was beyond pathetic and I'd get rid of him. If he turned to water in this GF, with all the pressure game experience he has, who is to say it won't happen in the 2015 GF (fingers crossed)? I say get something mentally tougher for him, while he still has currency. The only excuse he had, in my opinion, was injury. However that went out the window when he wasn't subbed out after the 20 minute observation absence off the field.

His 2012 GF was pretty darn good. Your opinion is based on one game. It's ridiculous. On that basis Roughead should've been traded out of hawthorn after 2012. He had a an utter stinker that day. He's been pretty handy since..

[rojo]

I don't mind people talking up Jetta's more rounded game, I want him to do well for the team's sake but in one game only that I saw this year did he play what I would call an influential game. How many times does he actually lay an effective tackle? Opposition players just swat him away like a fly. When he corrals players they just run through him or around him and then he just lopes on to do the same thing with the next player. Most of the time he is so frustrating to watch. I can only think that he is following instructions so give him the benefit of the doubt but I am not a fan of his new role.

[Velour&Ruffles]

Why are so many on here trading Jetta? He had an absolute shocker of a game, so did most of the team bar about 3 or 4 guys. Despite less goals and blistering runs, his role this year has been super important to our team finishing top of the ladder. He delivers the ball better than anyone bar perhaps buddy. He ranks right up there for inside 50's in our side ( if not no.1) , his defensive game and tackling has improved dramatically, and his ability to weave through heavy traffic with composure is unrivalled in our 22. If we were trading players based purely on their performance on Saturday, we'd be left with 4 players. People talk about needing more elite kicks and then throw up Jetta as trade bait? Astounding ! The biggest adjustment that needs to be made from Saturday is in the coaches box and In the players attitudes and mental preparation.

The difference is that Jetta never even appeared to be trying. The others seemed to be trying but incompetent, whereas Jetta with all his blistering pace never got above a slow canter. I recall screaming at him about three minutes into the game - it was mystifying even then. That's not a "shocker of a game", it's a shocker of a headspace. Only those inside the club will know whether that is something amenable to fixing in a reasonable time frame. For mine, he was beyond pathetic and I'd get rid of him. If he turned to water in this GF, with all the pressure game experience he has, who is to say it won't happen in the 2015 GF (fingers crossed)? I say get something mentally tougher for him, while he still has currency. The only excuse he had, in my opinion, was injury. However that went out the window when he wasn't subbed out after the 20 minute observation absence off the field.

[Swandering]

My take on the defenders, for what it is worth, is that the new young guys (particularly Rampe) have played so well this year that the older ones (Ted and Reg) have been able to ease off, and Ted especially has been moving more up the ground, confident that the young guys would cope. Then,in the GF, the young guys experienced some nerves which combined with some dodgy umpiring calls,knocked their confidence. All understandable, but the real failure was that the older guys didn't recognise this and get back to cover until it was too late. Because of this,I don't feel it was a failure of any particular player but the result of a subtle shift in the structure of the backline which developed throughout the year.

[tasmania60]

BY by reg

[Jewels]

I think we should think seriously about bottoming out to say 2nd or 3rd and make sure we're underdogs in the GF. Guaranteed success right there.

Sounds a pretty good plan to me, third place seems to be the ideal for us.

[Big Al]

I think we should think seriously about bottoming out to say 2nd or 3rd and make sure we're underdogs in the GF. Guaranteed success right there.

[ernie koala]

Patful would only be a stopgap solution, he turns 30 this off season.

[Plugger1300]

I thought Grundy had a terrific year. All the backs played well. We had the number one defence.
So maybe a bit of perspective needs to be shown.

They are ageing though and we desperately need a KPD so i would be doing what i could to get Patfull

[aardvark]

If both mal and shaw go who the bloody hell provides drive of Hbf ????

McVeigh, Rohan, Rampe, Jones or Biggs if he gets a chance.