2015 Grand Final

[Faunac8]

It wasnt me that put those up, but I agree with the sentiment.

Simply way to look at it is West Coasts win/loss record for home games vs away games this year. I doubt anyone is disputing home ground advantage are they ?

The theory that home ground advantage exists through all H&A rounds, all finals, then disappears on grand final day seems a little odd to say the least.

My apologies Barry that's what happens when I post while working ????
Is fair to say we agree to disagree ????????

[barry]

It wasnt me that put those up, but I agree with the sentiment.

Simply way to look at it is West Coasts win/loss record for home games vs away games this year. I doubt anyone is disputing home ground advantage are they ?

The theory that home ground advantage exists through all H&A rounds, all finals, then disappears on grand final day seems a little odd to say the least.

[Faunac8]

Using the venue as an excuse doesn't do any justice to a team if your good enough you will win anywhere.

By good enough you mean so overwhelmingly superior that you can overcome the handicap that you have been given.

Look at the size of the handicap.

Hawks home ground advantage 3 goals.
Hawks crowd advantage 2 goals
Hawks not needing to travel 2 goals
Eagles loss of crowd support 2 goals
Eagles loss of crowd support 2 goals
Eagles need to travel 2 goals

Total disadvantage 13 goals or 78 points

Qualifying Final Eagles win by 32 points
Grand Final Hawks win by 46 points

Turnaround 78 points

If you take handicap away from Grand Final result Eagles would have won by 32 points

If played at a neutral venue like the Olympic stadium then Hawks would have probably won by a small margin as they would have had still advantages with less travel distance and possibly greater crowd support as supporters would have had less distance to travel.

Playing Grand Finals at the MCG is one of the greatest inequities in the AFL. It smacks of FIFA type corruption that the MCG has been given such an extremely long contract at mates rates to hold the Grand Final with TV revenues expected to grow astronomically in the future.

When are we going to hear McGuire and co complain about this inequity? Answer Never.

Is it possible you could quantify these alleged advantages Barry ? Possibly some facts or statistics ?

[barry]

Take this into history, and you can see that the Brisbane 3-peat was a phenomenal performance, and probably the greatest of all time.
While the hawks 3-peat would be seen as the weakest, as it was all with a significant home ground advantage, not deserved in 2/3 cases.

[rb4x]

Using the venue as an excuse doesn't do any justice to a team if your good enough you will win anywhere.

By good enough you mean so overwhelmingly superior that you can overcome the handicap that you have been given.

Look at the size of the handicap.

Hawks home ground advantage 3 goals.
Hawks crowd advantage 2 goals
Hawks not needing to travel 2 goals
Eagles loss of crowd support 2 goals
Eagles loss of crowd support 2 goals
Eagles need to travel 2 goals

Total disadvantage 13 goals or 78 points

Qualifying Final Eagles win by 32 points
Grand Final Hawks win by 46 points

Turnaround 78 points

If you take handicap away from Grand Final result Eagles would have won by 32 points

If played at a neutral venue like the Olympic stadium then Hawks would have probably won by a small margin as they would have had still advantages with less travel distance and possibly greater crowd support as supporters would have had less distance to travel.

Playing Grand Finals at the MCG is one of the greatest inequities in the AFL. It smacks of FIFA type corruption that the MCG has been given such an extremely long contract at mates rates to hold the Grand Final with TV revenues expected to grow astronomically in the future.

When are we going to hear McGuire and co complain about this inequity? Answer Never.

[Faunac8]

Using the venue as an excuse doesn't do any justice to a team if your good enough you will win anywhere. Home ground is not such an advantage in Grand Finals as people make out.
Integrity is not really the word you should be using here as it is defined as either
1)the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles or
2) the state of being whole and undivided.
Neither of which really have anything to do with where a game of football is played
Ironically enough probably the best phrase to describe what you are looking for Barry would be " level playing field "

[Faunac8]

Those in favor of mcg only are only pandering to the eddie macguire of the world.
You must feel dirty.

Also Mcwhiner will be thrilled to be referred to as " the Eddie Macguire " rather a grandiose description for a xenophobic agitator and bogan.

[barry]

In the past the tradition of the MCG Grand final never effected anyone. With 8 non vic teams it now has a very large impact on integrity.

You now choose between the two. Tradition or integrity.

[Faunac8]

Those in favor of mcg only are only pandering to the eddie macguire of the world.
You must feel dirty.

If we can only get 30000 or so at a final at ANZ would a grand final (which I assume you are in favour of Barry so you can use your precious membership to attend ) between say two Victorian sides attract a full house?

[Faunac8]

If you know your history the Boxing Day test has only been a recent thing (1970s) so it's not like it goes back hundreds of years. So changing it is not as absurd as you're attempting to make it sound.

I completely disagree that the MCG is the spiritual home of Australian football. 'That one day in September' can be played at another venue and most people wouldn't notice the difference nor care. They'd get over it pretty fast. In fact, your admission that it's not 'the one day in September' anymore just goes to show how most people can be rather flexible when it comes to tradition.

In the 1990s, there was outrage when Preliminary Finals were moved outside of Victoria for the first time. Nowadays, we look back with embarrassment. The same will apply when we look back and realize Hawthorn, undeserving, played the Grand Final at their home ground twice.

People really need to take their Victorian/tradition goggles off and see the big picture. It's no longer a suburban footy league. It's the Australian Football League. It's not about tradition anymore, it's about moving the game forward and having a fair competition. .

Adelaide, Sydney and soon Perth have top quality stadiums to play the final game at. It's high time the game got some integrity and stopped unfairly favouring Victorian teams.

Yes I know that the Boxing Day test is relatively recent the point was would it now be held else where?
Your being slightly tongue in cheek surely If you think that most people wouldnt notice or care about it being held elsewhere. I would also be interested in hearing your nomination for the spiritual home of football if it isn't the MCG ?
Living in Queensland I can assure you that I don't have a Victorian pair of goggles but is tradition and keeping it really such a bad thing thing?

BTW I am not sure why you would look back with embarrassment regarding the preliminary finals? looking back in time and trying to put a current perspective on anything is fraught with potential emotional trauma.

- - - Updated - - -

Those in favor of mcg only are only pandering to the eddie macguire of the world.
You must feel dirty.

Long bow alert !!!!!

[barry]

Those in favor of mcg only are only pandering to the eddie macguire of the world.
You must feel dirty.

[bloodsbigot]

Move the Grand Final from the MCG ? Yep great idea lets not stop there what about the Boxing Day test? Hobart and Brisbane I think deserve a turn.
The Australian tennis Open should be held in the home town of the defending champion or keeping in line with some of the arguments put forward on here the home of the top seeds.
Yes in the 60's there was a plan put forward to have Waverley Park host the Grand Final once it was completed to hold 150,000 or so spectators.
That really would have been a sight to behold. But that was 50 odd years ago and the plan was knocked on the head by the State Government to protect its interest in the MCG.
As an aside I went to the last game held there when Hawthorn ( of course it would be them ) beat us in front of around 75,000 or so.
Like it or not the MCG is the spiritual and rightful home of AFL and a worthy venue for that one day in September ( or October as the case may be )

If you know your history the Boxing Day test has only been a recent thing (1970s) so it's not like it goes back hundreds of years. So changing it is not as absurd as you're attempting to make it sound.

I completely disagree that the MCG is the spiritual home of Australian football. 'That one day in September' can be played at another venue and most people wouldn't notice the difference nor care. They'd get over it pretty fast. In fact, your admission that it's not 'the one day in September' anymore just goes to show how most people can be rather flexible when it comes to tradition.

In the 1990s, there was outrage when Preliminary Finals were moved outside of Victoria for the first time. Nowadays, we look back with embarrassment. The same will apply when we look back and realize Hawthorn, undeserving, played the Grand Final at their home ground twice.

People really need to take their Victorian/tradition goggles off and see the big picture. It's no longer a suburban footy league. It's the Australian Football League. It's not about tradition anymore, it's about moving the game forward and having a fair competition.

Adelaide, Sydney and soon Perth have top quality stadiums to play the final game at. It's high time the game got some integrity and stopped unfairly favouring Victorian teams.

[Faunac8]

Move the Grand Final from the MCG ? Yep great idea lets not stop there what about the Boxing Day test? Hobart and Brisbane I think deserve a turn.
The Australian tennis Open should be held in the home town of the defending champion or keeping in line with some of the arguments put forward on here the home of the top seeds.
Yes in the 60's there was a plan put forward to have Waverley Park host the Grand Final once it was completed to hold 150,000 or so spectators.
That really would have been a sight to behold. But that was 50 odd years ago and the plan was knocked on the head by the State Government to protect its interest in the MCG.
As an aside I went to the last game held there when Hawthorn ( of course it would be them ) beat us in front of around 75,000 or so.
Like it or not the MCG is the spiritual and rightful home of AFL and a worthy venue for that one day in September ( or October as the case may be )

[bloodsbigot]

When we talk about equalisation, unfair advantages, developing the game around Australia, oh how I would love a GF at the SCG if we earned it.

I have no problem with MCG Grand Finals as long as its a ground where all teams get pretty equal exposure. With all those teams down there surely they need to scrape up another oval!

I'd be okay with MCG Grand Finals if they made sure the game was moved if only one team played their home games there and they finished lower on the ladder than the team they're facing.

Furthermore, on this topic, it's not like the VFL have always wanted Grand Finals played at the MCG. It's not like the MCG is sacred. The original plan in the 1960s was to move the Grand Final to Waverley Park.

[bloodsbigot]

The sporting capital of the world melbourne, the greatest city in the world melbourne, the most liveable city in the world melbourne, the cultural capital of australia.
When we made the GF the commentator says the town of sydney is going to the city of melbourne. Vic has pop less than 6 mil NSW have over 7 mil. Lets stop pulling our pants down and getting the tape out...
Cmon I'm means seriously VFL SAFL combine the cup is still the @@@@in VFL cup people don't even want to move the dam brownlow.

Victoria is so inwards-looking at times.