#AFL Round 2 Swans vs Crows Fri 29-Mar at SCG #AFLSwansCrows @sydneyswans

[Ralph Dawg]

Solution: Naismith back

I just don't see it with Naismith. The centre bounce is a competitive environment with alot of movement and variable factors. The tap to advantage is one thing but what ultimately determines whether a clearance is made is the work of the on ballers. Opposition's have worked out that once JPK is shut down, we have nothing. Look at clubs with shorter ruckmen like Richmond and Brisbane. They still can get clean clearances by virtue of a multi faceted, hard working on ball team. Our on ballers are just not competing. Sure, Naismith is tall but offers nothing around the park. Poor mobility, low possession winner, minimal influence up forward and down back. I always remember how poor he was against Hawthorn (McEvoy) and Geelong (Zac Smith) a couple of years ago, where his poor mobility was shown up. In those matches, it was like the opposition had an extra player. Cameron would be a better option.

[The Big Cat]

Hence why there is an element of supporters who will continue to question whether Longmire is capable of taking the team forward

If we have to endure more of this sack Longmire stuff I will continue to spew up! (He's only got us to 3 grand finals in the last 7 years - what a failure. OK, I give in. Let's go after Worsfold, he's a premiership coach)

[caj23]

Solution: Naismith back

What's the solution for the next 10 rounds he won't be available?

[The Big Cat]

we get flogged out of the centre square most weeks. The new 6/6/6 rule means that this will be more costly than ever

Solution: Naismith back

[caj23]

I think we have fundamentally different conceptions of what our game plan is. By game plan, I'm referring to what the team is trying to do, not simply what we observe actually unfolding. The latter is an interaction between game plan, execution, and the opposition.

I don't for one moment think our game plan "relies on starting every play from the back line". Any coach who came up with that plan would be mad. And if you look at periods during previous years when we have been considered one of the top sides, I think you'll find scant evidence for a plan that "relies on starting every play from the back line".

Correct, we're not deliberately starting from the back line, its just that our game plan and personnel means that the ball spends more time in the back half than most other teams.

Firstly, we get flogged out of the centre square most weeks, and on the evidence of the first 2 weeks nothing appears to have been implemented over the preseason to address this. The new 6/6/6 rule means that this will be more costly than ever

Secondly, our ball movement from the back half is slow and indirect giving our opposition time to move up the ground and implement their forward press, hence it gets stuck there. As noted earlier, our guys first instinct when they mark of get a free kick is to turn sideways without even bothering to look forward

So whilst you could say there isn't a specific game plan to start from the back, with our current game style, its inevitable that's where the ball is going to be for the bulk of the time. Hence why there is an element of supporters who will continue to question whether Longmire is capable of taking the team forward

[Markwebbos]

Last year we had the least inside 50's of any finalist since 2001. That says to me our forwards make the most of scant opportunities and we need to find a way to win more clearances. The key to fixing our problems is finding a couple more mids who can win the ball and a decent ruckman who can tap to advantage.

Maybe. Against the Crows we won inside 50s and contested possessions (narrowly) and lost clearances by 2, but got beaten by 4 goals.

The Swans have played a rope-a-dope style of game, prepared to absorb inside 50s and then slingshot out of defence. In the past it was often coupled with a high scoring first quarter, so we were defending from a position of strength for the last 3 quarters, whereas now we score one goal before going into our shells. I know this is stating the obvious, but other teams try to lock the ball inside their forward 50 and win turnovers there. The Swans have never really developed a forward "press" or played that territory game.

I also think we need to change our game plan because teams get worked out, and we've been worked out by the competition. If you watched Pies v Tigers on Thursday night, the Pies (who have totally worked Richmond out) kept possession coming out of defence by kicking and marking (they almost broke the record for marks), denying the Tigers the opportunity to scrap for the loose ball. Teams play possession football against us to deny us stoppages and as others have remarked, know they can get us on the outside, if they get enough ball.

We are being beaten all-ends-up at the moment (with the exception of the Crows game): can't win the ball, can't get the ball back, can't move the ball (both out of defence and inside 50 - how that kick from Blakey to Hayward stood out on Friday night because it so rarely happens these days). Liz, it is definitely partly about execution, but its also about how we are trying to play the game in the first place.

[aardvark]

Last year we had the least inside 50's of any finalist since 2001. That says to me our forwards make the most of scant opportunities and we need to find a way to win more clearances. The key to fixing our problems is finding a couple more mids who can win the ball and a decent ruckman who can tap to advantage.

[Blood Fever]

Liz I think that is too simplistic. To say it is all about pressure is a cop out. I think our team is far more skilled now than in either 2005 or 2012 across the board. Those teams had a small group of highly skilled players and the rest were grafters who as you say applied huge pressure. But to say that instituting a new game plan would not solve our problems and that applying pressure is the only problem is niave.

Our game plan is old, super defensive and I would question the player's belief in this plan. Thry all state 'we just have to get back to playing our game plan. Swans footy' so that is the same Swans footy we have been seeing now since 2011 with a few tweeks? The game plan that relies on starting every play from the back line? Sorry but every team is a wake up to that plan and under the new rules to try and play thst style is suicide.

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Who consciously has a game plan starting from backline? If this the case, we would start all our mids, and maybe the whole team, in our back 50!

[liz]

The game plan that relies on starting every play from the back line?

I think we have fundamentally different conceptions of what our game plan is. By game plan, I'm referring to what the team is trying to do, not simply what we observe actually unfolding. The latter is an interaction between game plan, execution, and the opposition.

I don't for one moment think our game plan "relies on starting every play from the back line". Any coach who came up with that plan would be mad. And if you look at periods during previous years when we have been considered one of the top sides, I think you'll find scant evidence for a plan that "relies on starting every play from the back line".

[caj23]

Liz I think that is too simplistic. To say it is all about pressure is a cop out. I think our team is far more skilled now than in either 2005 or 2012 across the board. Those teams had a small group of highly skilled players and the rest were grafters who as you say applied huge pressure. But to say that instituting a new game plan would not solve our problems and that applying pressure is the only problem is niave.

Our game plan is old, super defensive and I would question the player's belief in this plan. Thry all state 'we just have to get back to playing our game plan. Swans footy' so that is the same Swans footy we have been seeing now since 2011 with a few tweeks? The game plan that relies on starting every play from the back line? Sorry but every team is a wake up to that plan and under the new rules to try and play thst style is suicide.

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Agreed, I think the assertion that the players have "forgotten" how to apply pressure is an overly simplistic take on our current situation, particularly in the forward line. Our ball movement is so slow that most of our players are behind the ball and our forwards are outnumbered, hence even if they are applying that pressure, it doesn't achieve anything.

There's probably an element of fatigue as well as its much harder work when you haven't got the ball, particularly when it spends so much time in our backline

[wolftone57]

The players we have recruited has also, to an extent, been determined by our access to early draft picks. The other teams who have been up towards the top of the ladder for a sustained period in Geelong and Hawthorn - have been better able to attract mature talent to their lists to make up for lack of early draft pick access. Having said that, we have been fortunate to have access to three players who, under normal drafting circumstances, we wouldn't have had access to. One is still too new/young to make a big difference but the other two should be capable of injecting some class into the middle of the ground.

I don't buy into the "game plan" issue as much as others. I think that's more about tweaking than the fundamentals of the game. Where the team has really dropped off in the last couple of seasons is in applying pressure. All teams try to do this but for some it's more critical than others, and some are better at it than others. From 2012-2016 - the period when we made three grand finals - the team was consistently able to apply immense pressure all over the ground. Those teams weren't any more skilled than our current one, but turnovers matter less because they were able to win the ball back, frequently in the front half of the ground. And pressure can be a positive feedback system - if a team applies sufficient physical pressure, the inferred pressure on the opposition develops to the point when they create turnovers for the other team without much physical pressure.

That physical pressure has dropped right off. The team does it for short periods, but can't sustain it over a game. That might be personnel (ie younger players) but I doubt that's the only explanation. I think they've "forgotten" what it means and feels like to apply sustained pressure over the course of a whole game. Get that back and the team will start winning again.

Liz I think that is too simplistic. To say it is all about pressure is a cop out. I think our team is far more skilled now than in either 2005 or 2012 across the board. Those teams had a small group of highly skilled players and the rest were grafters who as you say applied huge pressure. But to say that instituting a new game plan would not solve our problems and that applying pressure is the only problem is niave.

Our game plan is old, super defensive and I would question the player's belief in this plan. Thry all state 'we just have to get back to playing our game plan. Swans footy' so that is the same Swans footy we have been seeing now since 2011 with a few tweeks? The game plan that relies on starting every play from the back line? Sorry but every team is a wake up to that plan and under the new rules to try and play thst style is suicide.

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[dejavoodoo44]

Interestingly, in the AFL Coaches Association votes, both coaches thought that Josh Kennedy was BOG. I thought that he had a pretty good game, but I'm not sure if I would go that far?

[wolftone57]

Swans won many of the key stats v Adelaide including disposals, inside 50s

Yes we won both of those but we were disposing out of defence and the ball was coming back a lot. As for inside 50's, you can have a million of those but if you constantly kick to players with multiple opponents you might as well have no only a few entries, those you actually score from. We can't kick a score. Why? Dumb footy. Bombing in to Bud and Ried instead of passing to free players. Indiscriminate bombs into the forward 50. No forward system.

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[wolftone57]

On current form it's only a 50/50 proposition!

I'd say 25/75. We are showing far less than Carlton.

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[AnnieH]

First time ever Longmire has had a go at the umpiring. If you pay a free kick one way you must pay the free kick to the opposition team as well. It's about time the rub of the Green goes our way. I remember at one stage it was 11 to 1 ratio. Guess even he is getting fed up with the same story. I wonder if the swans will ever get 11 frees to the opposition's one? Yep not in my lifetime. When pigs start flying.


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Discipline under frustration is rearing its ugly head.
A lot of the free kicks we give away are legit.